Head selection...World, TF, AAAAHHH!!!

Capri306 · 02-25-2001, 10:39 PM

Hey everbody. For those keeping score, I've decided on the CompCams XE266HR Xtreme Energy grind. Seems to be a great streetable combo of lift and duration. Another reason I like the cam is because the lift is under 0.560", the max lift on the Windsor Jr. heads. The rest of the combo is this: March ram air, 75mm Pro-M MAF, 24lb/hr injectors, 65mm TB, Cobra intake, BBK full lengths & h-pipe, BBK regulator, gauge, & 190lph pump, and 2500 stall. The 3.73's, underdrives, shift kit, and K&N are already installed.

Now for the question: are the Windsor Jr.'s the best bang-for-the-buck heads I can get? I don't want to go with 2.02's unless they're Trick Flows, but even then I'm still concerned about compression. Windsor Jr.'s are the only ones that have 58cc chambers. Looking through several mags and charts, the flow numbers are okay to compare as well, but I'm wondering about port velocity now, too. You can have a HUGE port volume, but unless the velocity is high enough (what FI is designed for), it's a dead charge. This is where I'm questioning the Jr.'s. Seems more and more they're designed for carbed engines, so now I'm head hunting again. Any probs for ne1 using these?
I'd like something I can get good volumetric efficiency with, still retain good compression, possibly get P/V clearance with the XE266HR (0.544/0.555 valve lift), and use stock style pedestal mount 1.6 roller rockers if possible. Edelbrock Performer 5.0's a possibility? Trick flows really that great? I need heads capable of supporting 350+ HP, but still good for a daily driver. Which heads are gonna do this for me??? Thanks for any & all help!

------------------
Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online
1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73
1987 Mustang LX Notch

86GT · 02-25-2001, 10:52 PM

I was under the impression that the GT-40X and the AFR 165s were available with 58cc chambers too. If so I'd consider them as well..

rtz · 02-25-2001, 11:06 PM

Do you have the option of getting the heads milled down to raise the compression? That way you could run any heads and at the compression ratio that you want.

cojonepony · 02-25-2001, 11:17 PM

The AFR 165's are available with either a 58 cc chamber or 64 cc. Also, you can choose between stud mount or pedestal mount rockers. The initial price is higher than some of the other aftermarket aluminum heads, but considering the CNC work already done on the AFR's might justify the higher price. Check out their website at: www.airflowresearch.com

BTW: I plan on getting the AFR 165's with the 58 cc chambers and pedestal mount, since I already have the 1.7 bolt down rockers. I guess the 58 cc chambers will yield around 9.5:1 on a stock shortblock.

Capri306 · 02-25-2001, 11:49 PM

Sorry, ppl. AFR's are not gonna work for that cam. Maximum lift on AFR's is 0.550", I'm going 0.544/0.555. 5-angle valve job isn't really necessary, nor the CNC work, so I think the $1325 price tag is a bit steep. I've narrowed the selection down to Ebrocks or Worlds...okay possibly the GT-40X. Trick Flows are out 'cause they puke at 0.540". Thanks for the suggestions so far, guys.

------------------
Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online
1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73
1987 Mustang LX Notch

[This message has been edited by Capri306 (edited 02-26-2001).]

86GT · 02-26-2001, 10:53 AM

Okay... well if I were you, I'd consider the Edelbrocks. I just got a set of the 6032s (1.90/1.60 stud mount, emissions legal), and they list the springs as good upto 575 lift. So maybe those or the 6037's based on what rocker arms you have.

Trouble is they only have a 60cc chamber, but could be milled to get your 58cc chamber. I'm using them with an F-303 cam so I wanted a strong vavle sping too, and many people told me that the Edelbrocks were the way to go.

Dark Knight · 02-26-2001, 12:37 PM

you can get the AFR's with any spring you want.. and the CNC porting is worth it ;-)
I want a 2nd set .. heheh

------------------
84 convt,'95 302,AFR's, performer
3.55's, underdrives shorties
14.16@100.08
and a '68 stang that WAS nasty ;-)
MY ride

Dark Knight · 02-26-2001, 12:43 PM

oh yeah http://www.airflowresearch.com/ford_dyno.htm

------------------
84 convt,'95 302,AFR's, performer
3.55's, underdrives shorties
14.16@100.08
and a '68 stang that WAS nasty ;-)
MY ride

Moxie · 02-26-2001, 05:20 PM

Canfields are available with 58cc chambers.

------------------
Moxie Racing

The Nitrous Oxide Information Site

MiracleMax · 02-26-2001, 10:54 PM

So are you looking for just a set of complete bolt on heads?

It looks like the limitation with the AFR's is probably coil bind? If you are getting a set of matched springs for your cam, .550 lift limitation probably won't apply.

moosejaw · 02-27-2001, 03:47 AM

You can use the Trick Flow street head(non o-ring>pedestal mount) with the spring package from the Track heat head and this would yeild a .600" maximum valve lift. This would be a 135# closed spring pressure and the open pressure would probably be border line for a pedestal rocker.

SO, you could buy stud mount rockers, get the Trick Flow Emissions head ( street) with the stud mount provision with the same spring package as above.

-OR- if emissions is not a issue just get the Track Heat head. The main difference is the omission of the air pump fittings. Otherwise it has the heavier dual spring combo as above.

Of course you are always hosed by the special valve relief requirement. :-(

Mike

Capri306 · 02-27-2001, 08:07 AM

Okay, I've made my decision (/me hears everybody say, "is that your final answer?"). I think I'm going with the 165cc AFR's equipped with high lift capability dual springs (might just get my own CompCams springs?). They seem to have what I was looking for all along: high flow, yet not HUGE intake ports, and a direct bolt-on / e-legal head. It's nice to keep that 58cc chamber as well, and I was wrong for knocking that CNC porting. $1300 is a bit high, but that's virtually what all the others run anyhoo.
Mmmmm...aluminum...pretty....

Okay, anyone know where you can buy the AFRs besides directly for less than an arm & a leg???

------------------
Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online
1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73
1987 Mustang LX Notch

02-25-2001, 10:39 PM	#1
Capri306 Moderator Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA Posts: 1,001	Head selection...World, TF, AAAAHHH!!! Hey everbody. For those keeping score, I've decided on the CompCams XE266HR Xtreme Energy grind. Seems to be a great streetable combo of lift and duration. Another reason I like the cam is because the lift is under 0.560", the max lift on the Windsor Jr. heads. The rest of the combo is this: March ram air, 75mm Pro-M MAF, 24lb/hr injectors, 65mm TB, Cobra intake, BBK full lengths & h-pipe, BBK regulator, gauge, & 190lph pump, and 2500 stall. The 3.73's, underdrives, shift kit, and K&N are already installed. Now for the question: are the Windsor Jr.'s the best bang-for-the-buck heads I can get? I don't want to go with 2.02's unless they're Trick Flows, but even then I'm still concerned about compression. Windsor Jr.'s are the only ones that have 58cc chambers. Looking through several mags and charts, the flow numbers are okay to compare as well, but I'm wondering about port velocity now, too. You can have a HUGE port volume, but unless the velocity is high enough (what FI is designed for), it's a dead charge. This is where I'm questioning the Jr.'s. Seems more and more they're designed for carbed engines, so now I'm head hunting again. Any probs for ne1 using these? I'd like something I can get good volumetric efficiency with, still retain good compression, possibly get P/V clearance with the XE266HR (0.544/0.555 valve lift), and use stock style pedestal mount 1.6 roller rockers if possible. Edelbrock Performer 5.0's a possibility? Trick flows really that great? I need heads capable of supporting 350+ HP, but still good for a daily driver. Which heads are gonna do this for me??? Thanks for any & all help! ------------------ Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online 1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73 1987 Mustang LX Notch

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02-25-2001, 10:52 PM	#2
86GT Sniffed too much n20 Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Ont, Canada Posts: 1,018	I was under the impression that the GT-40X and the AFR 165s were available with 58cc chambers too. If so I'd consider them as well..

02-25-2001, 11:06 PM	#3
rtz Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 180	Do you have the option of getting the heads milled down to raise the compression? That way you could run any heads and at the compression ratio that you want.

02-25-2001, 11:17 PM	#4
cojonepony Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 132	The AFR 165's are available with either a 58 cc chamber or 64 cc. Also, you can choose between stud mount or pedestal mount rockers. The initial price is higher than some of the other aftermarket aluminum heads, but considering the CNC work already done on the AFR's might justify the higher price. Check out their website at: www.airflowresearch.com BTW: I plan on getting the AFR 165's with the 58 cc chambers and pedestal mount, since I already have the 1.7 bolt down rockers. I guess the 58 cc chambers will yield around 9.5:1 on a stock shortblock.

02-25-2001, 11:49 PM	#5
Capri306 Moderator Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA Posts: 1,001	Sorry, ppl. AFR's are not gonna work for that cam. Maximum lift on AFR's is 0.550", I'm going 0.544/0.555. 5-angle valve job isn't really necessary, nor the CNC work, so I think the $1325 price tag is a bit steep. I've narrowed the selection down to Ebrocks or Worlds...okay possibly the GT-40X. Trick Flows are out 'cause they puke at 0.540". Thanks for the suggestions so far, guys. ------------------ Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online 1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73 1987 Mustang LX Notch [This message has been edited by Capri306 (edited 02-26-2001).]

02-26-2001, 10:53 AM	#6
86GT Sniffed too much n20 Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Ont, Canada Posts: 1,018	Okay... well if I were you, I'd consider the Edelbrocks. I just got a set of the 6032s (1.90/1.60 stud mount, emissions legal), and they list the springs as good upto 575 lift. So maybe those or the 6037's based on what rocker arms you have. Trouble is they only have a 60cc chamber, but could be milled to get your 58cc chamber. I'm using them with an F-303 cam so I wanted a strong vavle sping too, and many people told me that the Edelbrocks were the way to go.

02-26-2001, 12:37 PM	#7
Dark Knight Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Az Posts: 854	you can get the AFR's with any spring you want.. and the CNC porting is worth it ;-) I want a 2nd set .. heheh ------------------ 84 convt,'95 302,AFR's, performer 3.55's, underdrives shorties 14.16@100.08 and a '68 stang that WAS nasty ;-) MY ride

02-26-2001, 12:43 PM	#8
Dark Knight Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Az Posts: 854	oh yeah http://www.airflowresearch.com/ford_dyno.htm ------------------ 84 convt,'95 302,AFR's, performer 3.55's, underdrives shorties 14.16@100.08 and a '68 stang that WAS nasty ;-) MY ride

02-26-2001, 05:20 PM	#9
Moxie Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Plymouth, MI Posts: 254	Canfields are available with 58cc chambers. ------------------ Moxie Racing The Nitrous Oxide Information Site

02-26-2001, 10:54 PM	#10
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	So are you looking for just a set of complete bolt on heads? It looks like the limitation with the AFR's is probably coil bind? If you are getting a set of matched springs for your cam, .550 lift limitation probably won't apply.

02-27-2001, 03:47 AM	#11
moosejaw Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: St.Louis,MO Posts: 274	You can use the Trick Flow street head(non o-ring>pedestal mount) with the spring package from the Track heat head and this would yeild a .600" maximum valve lift. This would be a 135# closed spring pressure and the open pressure would probably be border line for a pedestal rocker. SO, you could buy stud mount rockers, get the Trick Flow Emissions head ( street) with the stud mount provision with the same spring package as above. -OR- if emissions is not a issue just get the Track Heat head. The main difference is the omission of the air pump fittings. Otherwise it has the heavier dual spring combo as above. Of course you are always hosed by the special valve relief requirement. :-( Mike

02-27-2001, 08:07 AM	#12
Capri306 Moderator Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA Posts: 1,001	Okay, I've made my decision (/me hears everybody say, "is that your final answer?"). I think I'm going with the 165cc AFR's equipped with high lift capability dual springs (might just get my own CompCams springs?). They seem to have what I was looking for all along: high flow, yet not HUGE intake ports, and a direct bolt-on / e-legal head. It's nice to keep that 58cc chamber as well, and I was wrong for knocking that CNC porting. $1300 is a bit high, but that's virtually what all the others run anyhoo. Mmmmm...aluminum...pretty.... Okay, anyone know where you can buy the AFRs besides directly for less than an arm & a leg??? ------------------ Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online 1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73 1987 Mustang LX Notch