Newbie questions

Jeb_Bush_2000 · 07-08-2001, 10:06 PM

Hi guys. I'm not the only Mustang owner in the family, but I'm the only one who uses his as a daily driver.

Hence, there are some things that are happening that I can't immediately dismiss as "normal", but that seem out of place. Allow me to elaborate:

The car is a '93 LX notchback, with 92.6K on the clock. It's absolutely bone-stock, AFAIK. The main issues are as follows:

1: I've heard from many sources that the oil pressure guage on late-model Fords isn't actually a guage, but rather just a mechanical idiot light. Is this true of the Fox body 'Stangs? My guage seems to move around a lot when I tap the gas. It normally sits between the "M" and the "A" in "NORMAL", but occasionally dips down to just under the "A". Is this, in fact, normal?

2: I appear to be having minor clutch problems. When the clutch comes out in neutral, and then goes back in, I hear a soft *thump* from the rear when I engage 1st gear. It almost sounds like an automatic transmission dropping into gear. I assume this is the clutch not fully releasing.

3: Transmission woes, pt. 2. I think my synchros are starting to go. 3rd gear seems really notchy, and sometimes I'll go to shift and it won't fully engage 3rd; I end up starting to release the clutch and I'm met with a grinding noise for an instant before I realize what I've done. Is that just bad stick-rowing on my part, or is something wrong?

4: The clutch vibrates occasionally, or judders, when I depress it to shift.

5: It also seems to be awfully grabby when I'm slipping it to pull away from a stop, and the result is I either bog the motor, lurch ahead, or light the tires up for a few feet until I get out of the gas. Also, it has sort of a rubber-band effect in 1st gear at low speeds, such as in a parking lot. This initially lead me to believe the previous owner put 3.73's in it, but I no longer think that's the case (unless 5500 RPM in 1st is about 43-45 on the speedo with 3.73's).

The last several issues seem to point to a weak link somewhere in the tranny, but right now I don't know where exactly. I'd really, really appreciate any help you guys could give me. This car is brand new to me and I'm moving up from a total s**tbox of a car, so I'm deathly afraid of something serious going wrong with my new "baby". Thanks in advance.

[This message has been edited by Jeb_Bush_2000 (edited 07-08-2001).]

82 GT · 07-08-2001, 10:37 PM

First,get a mechanical oil pressure gauge. It's the only way to determine what your pressure actually is.
Second,I doubt you have 3:73 gears. I t sounds more like 2:73's to me.
I also wouln't be surprised if you synchros are going bad since all factory T-5 are notorious for that.
As far as you clutch problem, how far from the floor does the petal travel before the clutch engages?
I would say, replace the clutch and re-surface the flywheel and get an adjustable clutch quadrant while you at it.

------------------
'82 GT 351W C-4,BBK headers,Carter 625 carb,Comp.Cam,Flowmaster exhaust.
1988 GT...T-5,bone stock

Jeb_Bush_2000 · 07-08-2001, 10:50 PM

It feels like it starts to engage about an inch and a half, or maybe two inches from the floor, and it's rather abrupt. There's a good three inches of free play when it's all the way out, before it starts to slip.

Chevyguy · 07-09-2001, 09:38 AM

FWIW the stock oil press gauge gives similar readings compared to my Mechanical gauge in my Laguna. The pressure will drop at idle more so when the engine is hot. A reading of "A" or the second tick is approx 30 psi, the first tick is approx 10 psi which is below the "L" Stock gauges are reportedly notorius for being slow esp tachs. My 0.02 any two gagues will not read the same anyways.

For the other stuff, It sounds to me that your clutch cable and clutch is worn. I got my 90 with 99K and the second clutch was glazed up and the flywheel was blued up and had high and low spots, the cable was pretty stretched out too. In goes a FMS iron flywheel, FMS A-302 clutch and a new throwout and pilot bearing. Get the Summit stock clutch fork kit with the cable for $45 since the fork was the only thing I did not replace and it was a little beat up. My clutch setup works awesome and smooth, perhaps on the stiff side, the King Cobra is easier but not as strong, and more expensive.

Get the trans rebuilt before it blows apart, it won't cost as much if nothing is totally broken yet.

------------------
Frank W
90 5.0 LX coupe Daily driver. Silencer removed, K&N filter. Flexalite fan, 3 core radiator. FMS flywheel and Clutch, FMS blue wires Energy Suspension end links
88 Notch 2.3L 5 speed Parts/beater car My two Notchbacks

74 Chevy Laguna Type S-3 305 Finally fixed getting a 454 to put in garage
<A HREF="http://www.chevellepages.com/folingo" TARGET=_blank>www.chevellepages.

Jeb_Bush_2000 · 07-09-2001, 11:23 AM

Can you recommend a good transmission shop in the Natick area?

PKRWUD · 07-09-2001, 11:50 AM

First off, that was an excellent description with good info! To answer your question about the oil pressure gauge, the "fake" ones that you mentioned are used in the F-150's. The Mustangs gauge is a functional gauge. However, they are not very accurate, and really should be replaced with a mechanical gauge. This is true of the temp. gauge as well. As far as your rear gears, they're no higher than 2.73's and no lower than 3.08's. As far as your clutch and tranny are concerned, it definately sounds like your flywheel is heavily glazed, and I'm sure your clutch is in need of replacement. As for the "thump", if a new clutch/flywheel doesn't solve it, check your driveline for play in the u-joints and the rear end. The suggestion to have your tranny rebuilt isn't absolutely necessary, but as long as it's out (for the clutch), you might want to take it in. I would check the shifter for play as well.

Good luck, and enjoy your "new baby"!!

Take care
~Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: JimPorterRacing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

[This message has been edited by PKRWUD (edited 07-09-2001).]

jimberg · 07-09-2001, 01:08 PM

Have the rear main seal replaced while having the clutch redone. It's a good chance that it's leaking now.

Your oil pressure seems to be normal. A real gauge is the only way to know for sure, but what you describe is similar to what I get. My oil pressure needle normally sits at the point where it is perfectly horizontal and dips below that every now and then. I have a high volume oil pump in a 351.

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

Jeb_Bush_2000 · 07-09-2001, 02:08 PM

Thanks for the help, guys.

I think the thumping is a combination of the clutch and the U-joint. It hear a noise from the back end when I shift hard, but there's a remote possibility it's something in the trunk, or even an exhaust pipe...

The expense of getting the tranny rebuilt scares me. I know a new clutch is going to run $150-200 total (including labor), and the flywheel will probably be about as much, so I don't know if I can afford to get it overhauled.

I guess this is going to put a crimp in my plans to mod the motor.

Mr 5 0 · 07-09-2001, 07:10 PM

Jeb:

I concur with the clutch and gauge suggestions. Replace both, soon.

A decent clutch assembly runs about $200. (the Ford 'Valeo' unit, for example).
A new, stock, flywheel (iron) runs $100.
I recommend replacing the flywheel but if it's not cracked, it can be resurfaced for $30. or so. Check around. Labor charge varies a lot; I would guess at least $100., probably more. Again, get estimates.
Replace the rear seal, as previously recommended and hope you just need new U-joint bolts for the other noise.

A new clutch may cure the shifting problems but have the transmission oil changed while it's out. Try to get synthetic if you can.

Let us know how it all works out for you.

BTW: Love your User Name.

90dpscoupe · 07-09-2001, 09:16 PM

No, i just had my clutch replaced, and i paid 200 for the hd fms clutch, plus 240 labor, then the guy tried to stick me with the "resurfacing bill

sob, anyway about your oil guage, you'll see the sending unit bye the power steering pump, just replace it, about 15$ when mine went out, it still partially worked, hung around the "L" now shows much higher, cheap insurance, and the t-5... damn seems like an epidemic, mines going out, gonna be 425$ for a rebuild, but mine just makes a ckicking noise, also know a few other people, including f-bods with trannies going out.

------------------
90 lx coupe: 175k miles, steeda water pump pully, hurst shifter, Mac cold air fenderwell, accel supercoil, ADS chip, aluminum D/S, Black magic fan, 3.27grs.
Best time: 13.9116(on 225/60/15 firehawks)
Best mph: 98.17
Best 60': 1.9607

next mods: subframes, mac h-pipe

Jeb_Bush_2000 · 07-09-2001, 09:48 PM

Well, my tranny seems to be quiet, for the most part, so I think the synchros are just worn. That's ok...I've always wanted to have to double-clutch.

Speaking of the clutch (again), I tried adjusting it by pulling on the pedal. It moves back about an inch, but that just seems to be free play. I can't really describe it accurately. It just feels like it's pivoting on the stop, or something, that prevents the pedal from going all the way up into the dash. Does that make sense?

Also, perhaps more disturbingly, right before the clutch hits the floor, there's a loud *click* from under the hood. I assume that's something to do with the cable.

90dpscoupe · 07-09-2001, 10:06 PM

hmmm, well when i pull up on my clutch pedal, it makes it worse, unless i stick my hand all the way up by the gas pedal, find the stock plastic quadrant, hard to explain, but i grab the moving part (kinda ratchet it in), and then pull the pedal out till it clicks, then push it in, don't pull it or, click it back out at this point, or it will come out of adjustment, at least thats what mine does.
good luck

Chevyguy · 07-10-2001, 06:37 AM

Jeb, I carried my trans to a shop in Charlestown Cottman Trans, the unit was pretty blown out and he rebuilt it awesome for $575. There is a good shop in Framingham Bonded Transmission, I did not go there since I did the work in Somerville, but they are recomended by my Mechanic friend.

If the trans is off replacing the clutch, good time to check it out, just a synchro replace is cheaper, I had a blown out mainshaft etc..

------------------
Frank W
90 5.0 LX coupe Daily driver. Silencer removed, K&N filter. Flexalite fan, 3 core radiator. FMS flywheel and Clutch, FMS blue wires Energy Suspension end links
88 Notch 2.3L 5 speed Parts/beater car My two Notchbacks

74 Chevy Laguna Type S-3 305 Finally fixed getting a 454 to put in garage
<A HREF="http://www.chevellepages.com/folingo" TARGET=_blank>www.chevellepages.

SmokeyDP · 07-10-2001, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeb_Bush_2000:
It feels like it starts to engage about an inch and a half, or maybe two inches from the floor, and it's rather abrupt. There's a good three inches of free play when it's all the way out, before it starts to slip.

Mine used to engage all the way up. Since I put in a FMS King Cobra clutch(300miles ago) my car does the SAME thing. I also have the problem with the car being hard to start out in first and reverse because of the clutch it either spins out, or it bogs, or it lurches ahead.

------------------
1992 GT 5.0L Convertible
BBK Shorties, Flowmasters, Super Chip, Mass Air, Under Drive Pullies, Hurst Shifter, Duck Tape
AIM: SmokeyDP

Jeb_Bush_2000 · 07-10-2001, 05:18 PM

Chevyguy, thank you for the information. I'll look into it in more depth this weekend.

SmokeyDP, do you think that has anything to do with the EEC programming? For example, my father's car (a '95 Cobra) is much, much smoother to shift. I had heard the EEC-V retards ignition timing when you shift, and they changed to that in '94, I believe. Could there be a connection?

Jeb_Bush_2000 · 07-11-2001, 12:04 PM

*bump*, 'cause ah need mo' opinions!

Coupe Devil · 07-11-2001, 12:48 PM

Tranny-have it redone. I used a Hanlon Motorsports Master Kit ($225), it came with everything you need. I mean everything.

Bump-rear u-joint replace it and also check your pinion nut while you have the drive shaft out. I replace U-joints every 20xxx in everything I own.

Not sure about the otherstuff but someone on here probably has the right answer.

------------------
'93 lx 4 banger, wrecked '90 lx 5.0, w/ t-5. .030 over fully ported and polihed (did that just to see if I could-first attempt at it). Motor and tranny in use for Ranger project.

Cocked, locked and ready to rock

Pony Power Forever

07-08-2001, 10:06 PM	#1
Jeb_Bush_2000 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Taxachusetts Posts: 374	Newbie questions Hi guys. I'm not the only Mustang owner in the family, but I'm the only one who uses his as a daily driver. Hence, there are some things that are happening that I can't immediately dismiss as "normal", but that seem out of place. Allow me to elaborate: The car is a '93 LX notchback, with 92.6K on the clock. It's absolutely bone-stock, AFAIK. The main issues are as follows: 1: I've heard from many sources that the oil pressure guage on late-model Fords isn't actually a guage, but rather just a mechanical idiot light. Is this true of the Fox body 'Stangs? My guage seems to move around a lot when I tap the gas. It normally sits between the "M" and the "A" in "NORMAL", but occasionally dips down to just under the "A". Is this, in fact, normal? 2: I appear to be having minor clutch problems. When the clutch comes out in neutral, and then goes back in, I hear a soft thump from the rear when I engage 1st gear. It almost sounds like an automatic transmission dropping into gear. I assume this is the clutch not fully releasing. 3: Transmission woes, pt. 2. I think my synchros are starting to go. 3rd gear seems really notchy, and sometimes I'll go to shift and it won't fully engage 3rd; I end up starting to release the clutch and I'm met with a grinding noise for an instant before I realize what I've done. Is that just bad stick-rowing on my part, or is something wrong? 4: The clutch vibrates occasionally, or judders, when I depress it to shift. 5: It also seems to be awfully grabby when I'm slipping it to pull away from a stop, and the result is I either bog the motor, lurch ahead, or light the tires up for a few feet until I get out of the gas. Also, it has sort of a rubber-band effect in 1st gear at low speeds, such as in a parking lot. This initially lead me to believe the previous owner put 3.73's in it, but I no longer think that's the case (unless 5500 RPM in 1st is about 43-45 on the speedo with 3.73's). The last several issues seem to point to a weak link somewhere in the tranny, but right now I don't know where exactly. I'd really, really appreciate any help you guys could give me. This car is brand new to me and I'm moving up from a total s**tbox of a car, so I'm deathly afraid of something serious going wrong with my new "baby". Thanks in advance. [This message has been edited by Jeb_Bush_2000 (edited 07-08-2001).]

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07-08-2001, 10:37 PM	#2
82 GT Import Slayer Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 2,241	First,get a mechanical oil pressure gauge. It's the only way to determine what your pressure actually is. Second,I doubt you have 3:73 gears. I t sounds more like 2:73's to me. I also wouln't be surprised if you synchros are going bad since all factory T-5 are notorious for that. As far as you clutch problem, how far from the floor does the petal travel before the clutch engages? I would say, replace the clutch and re-surface the flywheel and get an adjustable clutch quadrant while you at it. ------------------ '82 GT 351W C-4,BBK headers,Carter 625 carb,Comp.Cam,Flowmaster exhaust. 1988 GT...T-5,bone stock

07-08-2001, 10:50 PM	#3
Jeb_Bush_2000 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Taxachusetts Posts: 374	It feels like it starts to engage about an inch and a half, or maybe two inches from the floor, and it's rather abrupt. There's a good three inches of free play when it's all the way out, before it starts to slip.

07-09-2001, 09:38 AM	#4
Chevyguy Backyard Mechanic/Chemist Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Acton MA USA Posts: 435	FWIW the stock oil press gauge gives similar readings compared to my Mechanical gauge in my Laguna. The pressure will drop at idle more so when the engine is hot. A reading of "A" or the second tick is approx 30 psi, the first tick is approx 10 psi which is below the "L" Stock gauges are reportedly notorius for being slow esp tachs. My 0.02 any two gagues will not read the same anyways. For the other stuff, It sounds to me that your clutch cable and clutch is worn. I got my 90 with 99K and the second clutch was glazed up and the flywheel was blued up and had high and low spots, the cable was pretty stretched out too. In goes a FMS iron flywheel, FMS A-302 clutch and a new throwout and pilot bearing. Get the Summit stock clutch fork kit with the cable for $45 since the fork was the only thing I did not replace and it was a little beat up. My clutch setup works awesome and smooth, perhaps on the stiff side, the King Cobra is easier but not as strong, and more expensive. Get the trans rebuilt before it blows apart, it won't cost as much if nothing is totally broken yet. ------------------ Frank W 90 5.0 LX coupe Daily driver. Silencer removed, K&N filter. Flexalite fan, 3 core radiator. FMS flywheel and Clutch, FMS blue wires Energy Suspension end links 88 Notch 2.3L 5 speed Parts/beater car My two Notchbacks 74 Chevy Laguna Type S-3 305 Finally fixed getting a 454 to put in garage <A HREF="http://www.chevellepages.com/folingo" TARGET=_blank>www.chevellepages.

07-09-2001, 11:23 AM	#5
Jeb_Bush_2000 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Taxachusetts Posts: 374	Can you recommend a good transmission shop in the Natick area?

07-09-2001, 11:50 AM	#6
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	First off, that was an excellent description with good info! To answer your question about the oil pressure gauge, the "fake" ones that you mentioned are used in the F-150's. The Mustangs gauge is a functional gauge. However, they are not very accurate, and really should be replaced with a mechanical gauge. This is true of the temp. gauge as well. As far as your rear gears, they're no higher than 2.73's and no lower than 3.08's. As far as your clutch and tranny are concerned, it definately sounds like your flywheel is heavily glazed, and I'm sure your clutch is in need of replacement. As for the "thump", if a new clutch/flywheel doesn't solve it, check your driveline for play in the u-joints and the rear end. The suggestion to have your tranny rebuilt isn't absolutely necessary, but as long as it's out (for the clutch), you might want to take it in. I would check the shifter for play as well. Good luck, and enjoy your "new baby"!! Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!! [This message has been edited by PKRWUD (edited 07-09-2001).]

07-09-2001, 01:08 PM	#7
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	Have the rear main seal replaced while having the clutch redone. It's a good chance that it's leaking now. Your oil pressure seems to be normal. A real gauge is the only way to know for sure, but what you describe is similar to what I get. My oil pressure needle normally sits at the point where it is perfectly horizontal and dips below that every now and then. I have a high volume oil pump in a 351. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

07-09-2001, 02:08 PM	#8
Jeb_Bush_2000 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Taxachusetts Posts: 374	Thanks for the help, guys. I think the thumping is a combination of the clutch and the U-joint. It hear a noise from the back end when I shift hard, but there's a remote possibility it's something in the trunk, or even an exhaust pipe... The expense of getting the tranny rebuilt scares me. I know a new clutch is going to run $150-200 total (including labor), and the flywheel will probably be about as much, so I don't know if I can afford to get it overhauled. I guess this is going to put a crimp in my plans to mod the motor.

07-09-2001, 07:10 PM	#9
Mr 5 0 Conservative Individualist Join Date: May 1997 Location: Wherever I need to be Posts: 7,487	Jeb: I concur with the clutch and gauge suggestions. Replace both, soon. A decent clutch assembly runs about $200. (the Ford 'Valeo' unit, for example). A new, stock, flywheel (iron) runs $100. I recommend replacing the flywheel but if it's not cracked, it can be resurfaced for $30. or so. Check around. Labor charge varies a lot; I would guess at least $100., probably more. Again, get estimates. Replace the rear seal, as previously recommended and hope you just need new U-joint bolts for the other noise. A new clutch may cure the shifting problems but have the transmission oil changed while it's out. Try to get synthetic if you can. Let us know how it all works out for you. BTW: Love your User Name.

07-09-2001, 09:16 PM	#10
90dpscoupe Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: sanantonio, Tx, usa Posts: 1,407	No, i just had my clutch replaced, and i paid 200 for the hd fms clutch, plus 240 labor, then the guy tried to stick me with the "resurfacing bill sob, anyway about your oil guage, you'll see the sending unit bye the power steering pump, just replace it, about 15$ when mine went out, it still partially worked, hung around the "L" now shows much higher, cheap insurance, and the t-5... damn seems like an epidemic, mines going out, gonna be 425$ for a rebuild, but mine just makes a ckicking noise, also know a few other people, including f-bods with trannies going out. ------------------ 90 lx coupe: 175k miles, steeda water pump pully, hurst shifter, Mac cold air fenderwell, accel supercoil, ADS chip, aluminum D/S, Black magic fan, 3.27grs. Best time: 13.9116(on 225/60/15 firehawks) Best mph: 98.17 Best 60': 1.9607 next mods: subframes, mac h-pipe

07-09-2001, 09:48 PM	#11
Jeb_Bush_2000 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Taxachusetts Posts: 374	Well, my tranny seems to be quiet, for the most part, so I think the synchros are just worn. That's ok...I've always wanted to have to double-clutch. Speaking of the clutch (again), I tried adjusting it by pulling on the pedal. It moves back about an inch, but that just seems to be free play. I can't really describe it accurately. It just feels like it's pivoting on the stop, or something, that prevents the pedal from going all the way up into the dash. Does that make sense? Also, perhaps more disturbingly, right before the clutch hits the floor, there's a loud click from under the hood. I assume that's something to do with the cable.

07-09-2001, 10:06 PM	#12
90dpscoupe Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: sanantonio, Tx, usa Posts: 1,407	hmmm, well when i pull up on my clutch pedal, it makes it worse, unless i stick my hand all the way up by the gas pedal, find the stock plastic quadrant, hard to explain, but i grab the moving part (kinda ratchet it in), and then pull the pedal out till it clicks, then push it in, don't pull it or, click it back out at this point, or it will come out of adjustment, at least thats what mine does. good luck

07-10-2001, 06:37 AM	#13
Chevyguy Backyard Mechanic/Chemist Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Acton MA USA Posts: 435	Jeb, I carried my trans to a shop in Charlestown Cottman Trans, the unit was pretty blown out and he rebuilt it awesome for $575. There is a good shop in Framingham Bonded Transmission, I did not go there since I did the work in Somerville, but they are recomended by my Mechanic friend. If the trans is off replacing the clutch, good time to check it out, just a synchro replace is cheaper, I had a blown out mainshaft etc.. ------------------ Frank W 90 5.0 LX coupe Daily driver. Silencer removed, K&N filter. Flexalite fan, 3 core radiator. FMS flywheel and Clutch, FMS blue wires Energy Suspension end links 88 Notch 2.3L 5 speed Parts/beater car My two Notchbacks 74 Chevy Laguna Type S-3 305 Finally fixed getting a 454 to put in garage <A HREF="http://www.chevellepages.com/folingo" TARGET=_blank>www.chevellepages.

07-10-2001, 05:18 PM	#15
Jeb_Bush_2000 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Taxachusetts Posts: 374	Chevyguy, thank you for the information. I'll look into it in more depth this weekend. SmokeyDP, do you think that has anything to do with the EEC programming? For example, my father's car (a '95 Cobra) is much, much smoother to shift. I had heard the EEC-V retards ignition timing when you shift, and they changed to that in '94, I believe. Could there be a connection?

07-11-2001, 12:04 PM	#16
Jeb_Bush_2000 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Taxachusetts Posts: 374	bump, 'cause ah need mo' opinions!

07-11-2001, 12:48 PM	#17
Coupe Devil Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Myrtle Beach SC Posts: 1,643	Tranny-have it redone. I used a Hanlon Motorsports Master Kit ($225), it came with everything you need. I mean everything. Bump-rear u-joint replace it and also check your pinion nut while you have the drive shaft out. I replace U-joints every 20xxx in everything I own. Not sure about the otherstuff but someone on here probably has the right answer. ------------------ '93 lx 4 banger, wrecked '90 lx 5.0, w/ t-5. .030 over fully ported and polihed (did that just to see if I could-first attempt at it). Motor and tranny in use for Ranger project. Cocked, locked and ready to rock Pony Power Forever