what should I start with?

69grande351 · 08-25-2004, 04:59 PM

Hey everyone, I have a 69 mustang with a 302. I was wondering what I should do first to make it have the pants in the seat feel. All I have so far is a new aircleaner and flowmaster 40 series dual exhaust. What should I do now? A 600 cfm car and intake manifold maybe? Longtube headers maybe? Or should I bore the engine out and maybe put some new gears in it? Money is kind of a factor because I am only 18. So anything cheap but will add some horsepower and torque would be great! Thanks for the help.

RDRZ · 08-25-2004, 05:11 PM

You say that money is an issue, so if you want to do something like boring the motor, then that will cost a bit. If you do that, you will need to look at new pistons, rings, etc. What combo do you have right now? Is the motor totally stock? If it is, I would look into a cam and intake and new carb, or maybe better flowing heads...

bmxmon · 08-25-2004, 05:12 PM

I bet some new rear end gears would help alot.

69grande351 · 08-25-2004, 08:29 PM

yes, the motor is totally stock, if I get a cam, how much do you think that would cost to put in, and what type of degree should I get?

6T9PONY · 08-25-2004, 09:34 PM

I wouldn't mess with the engine just yet. You would have to drop AT LEAST $750 (cam kit, intake manifold, carb, headers) in that thing before you'd start to notice a lot. You still wouldn't gain a whole lot by just doing that, either. The real bottleneck in our Windsor engines is the heads. Cylinder heads are not cheap. You're looking at over a grand just for an assembled set of aluminum heads, not to mention all the other parts you'd need along with them for the install.

If I was you I'd start with the rear end. I'm guessing you have an 8" open rear axle with some crappy gears like 3.00:1. That's what my '69 coupe had in it with a 302/auto from the factory. Do you know what gears you have?

You could stick with the 8" and upgrade to some steeper gears and a posi unit, but I wouldn't. I'd try to find a 9" rear with posi and determine what gears are in it. If they aren't at least 3.70s, go with something steeper.

You'll be able to notice a lot of difference--especially in first gear--if you upgrade from 3.00:1 gears to 3.89s or 4.11s.

Just my opinion.....

Fat0eknee · 08-25-2004, 10:26 PM

longtubes would be nice if you have the stock exhaust manifolds ..i also 2nd the rear end gears ..best bang for the buck

65StangerCp · 08-26-2004, 12:48 AM

if you can do the work yourself then port the cylinder heads and get some long tube headers.

The ported heads flow alsmost as much as $1000 aftermarket ones and the headers will make even more power then the porting.

get a pertonix ignition modual and coil while your at it.-5 minute install

All in all your out 250 bucks and you get more than gears can get you for about the same price as just the gears. your gas milage will be hurt with gears and is my suggestion I got another 2 miles to the gallon out of the car.

69grande351 · 08-26-2004, 12:25 PM

I have no idea what kind of gears I have, where could I find some gears? I dont know how to port/polish, so how much do you think it would be if it took it to a shop?

65StangerCp · 08-26-2004, 04:34 PM

To find your gear ratio installed in a non-overdrive automatic or manual transmission car

verify the speedo is working
get a tachometer
if you are able to go 65mph @ 2600rpm then you have about a 2.8 or 3.0 rear end ratio
if it is more like 3300rpm@65mph then you are already running a lower (lower is more acceleration, less top speed) end gear ratio

To buy new gears check out any ford performance store.
www.jegs.com or a well know mustang parts dealer are your best bets. jegs has better prices though.

If you wish to port and polish (P&P) then get a chiltons manual and learn how to take out the heads so the shop doesnt charge the extra money. Shops charge between $200-400. Rice shops try to sell porting in "stages" in which each stage will cost you more money. The difference to the shop for each stage is not usualy worth the difference in price. Make sure they can give you a flow bench test on your heads, otherwise they can charge you and not do anything - another attribute of the rice shops.

If you could do it yourself a port and polish kit only costs $40, but you will have to know what you are doing.- you will also have to buy new gaskets and of course oil.

The weakest point of a stock 302 (performance wise) is the flow rate of the intake and exhuast runner in the heads. fix that problem and other changes to the engine will make more power then they would on a stock engine.

69grande351 · 08-26-2004, 10:36 PM

would the port and polish do that?

Fat0eknee · 08-26-2004, 11:30 PM

one way to figure out gear ratio, jack the rear of the car up and put it on stands ..put tranny in neutral make a mark on like the rear of the driveshaft and on part of the pumpkin so u can see where it lines up and rotate the tire 1 full rotation ...however many times the driveshaft turns is your ratio

also i wouldnt port/polish the stock heads ..i would just stick with what you have and save the money until you can afford like a used pair of aluminum heads

for basic mods just to get you goin for now until you can gather some cash ..i suggest

#1 gears and a limited slip or locker differential ...traction is a big problem and wheels like to hop ..mine did anyways so i also suggest

#2 a nice pair of traction or lift bars

i know these things dont necessarily add power but they help get what you already have to the ground which is very important ..i know everybody likes to brag about bigass hp numbers but whats that gonna do if they cant get it to the ground right?

#3 im gonna say a nice free flowing exhaust setup
go with 2 or 3 chamber flowmasters with a nice set of longtubes
and have them dump it right after the muffler ..deep sweet sound that you can hear from miles away

but thats just my opinion ..i really dont know anything

KiltedBanshees93GT · 08-27-2004, 07:31 AM

I agree with the gears, and traction bars, it doesent matter how much power you have if you cant get it to the ground. Something else though, is the car a stick or manual? if its an auto a shift kit would also help with the "butt dyno". You'll feel it shift harder and get a little more out of what you have.
Also less band wear on the tranny.
BTW, was the aircleaner a K&N? Have you already done a good tune up? The Petronix kit is a good suggestion too, you'll never have to play with points again.
Just my .02,
J

69grande351 · 08-27-2004, 12:42 PM

it is an auto, and is it hard to put new gears in? I can't seem to find any at jegs.

Fat0eknee · 08-27-2004, 01:07 PM

try looking under ring & pinion ..and unless you know what you are doing i suggest takin them to a shop

rwhite65 · 08-27-2004, 09:05 PM

Ok the Gears:
Probably the best thing u can do right now. Since your car proabably has an 8 inch rear, gear swaps are easy. Instead of taking it to the shop, u can switch out the whole third member. Fairly easy to do, and will only take a few hours at most. Start looking online...in the back of catalogs..something like currie enterprises (expensive though) for a new third member with the posi unit or locker already installed. Will come perfectly ready to bolt right into the car. Your 8 inch rear will get u by until you start putting some serious power to the ground...with some sticky tires at that.

Exhaust:
will get your car sounding and breathing better.

Heads:
Porting the heads would be a great thing to do, but much more of a consuming project. Fords heads generally suck pretty bad as the guys have mentioned. If u r going to port them, paying a machine shop would be a waste of time. By the time they got u ported out, u would have so much money in them, u would wish u had just saved for a set of aftermarket heads.

My advice, go to some cruise-ins....get to know the guys into fords.....show them ur desire to learn, and let their knowledge lead u from there. I wish I had done this sooner, would have saved me a lot of money...and some stupid decisions could have been avoided.
Ryan

Rev · 08-28-2004, 03:42 PM

I think gears are a good start. I got my 8" at Currie in Ca. Check there for a 8'' 3 rd member with an Auburn Pro limited slip. Don't get the Currie TSD or a Ford Traction-Lock. I used both of those and they are short lived when used with very much power.

My first mod woulld be a new exhaust. I use Tri-Y headers with a custom made 2 1/2" pipes. I also use 3 chamber 2 1/.2" FlowMaster mufflers. Mine is still very loud even with the 3 chamber mufflers (no cats).

If you want cheap head upgrades I have 351W heads with 1.85/1.54 valves, decked, 3 angle valve job, professionally pocket ported, and with CC 1.6 roller tip rockers included. These heads have about 20,000 miles on them. I upgraded to TFTW heads some time ago. I would sell the 351W's for $350 + shipping, but only after a complete inspection by the shop that built them originally. Complete documentation of the original costs is available.

Rev

rwhite65 · 08-28-2004, 03:52 PM

Rev's heads would be a good upgrade...at a good price.....wish I would of known you had them before I ported and slightly polished mine

Ryan

Rev · 08-28-2004, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rev
I think gears are a good start. I got my 8" at Currie in Ca. Check there for a 8'' 3 rd member with an Auburn Pro limited slip. Don't get the Currie TSD or a Ford Traction-Lock. I used both of those and they are short lived when used with very much power.

My first mod woulld be a new exhaust. I use Tri-Y headers with a custom made 2 1/2" pipes. I also use 3 chamber 2 1/.2" FlowMaster mufflers. Mine is still very loud even with the 3 chamber mufflers (no cats).

If you want cheap head upgrades I have 351W heads with 1.85/1.54 valves, decked, 3 angle valve job, professionally pocket ported, and with CC 1.6 roller tip rockers included. These heads have about 20,000 miles on them. I upgraded to TFTW heads some time ago. I would sell the 351W's for $350 + shipping, but only after a complete inspection by the shop that built them originally. Complete documentation of the original costs are available.

Rev

Note: These heads do still have pressed in studs and the rockers are the rail type. The heads are still good for 300 Hp and 5500 RPM. Also the rockers are adjustable with Pioneer locking adjusters.

Rev

69grande351 · 08-29-2004, 09:52 PM

I am very interested in these heads, are they reliable? how much horsepower and torque would they make over the stock heads?

Rev · 09-02-2004, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 69grande351
I am very interested in these heads, are they reliable? how much horsepower and torque would they make over the stock heads?

Check your PM's.

Rev

08-27-2004, 07:31 AM	#12
KiltedBanshees93GT Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Pigeon Forge Tn Posts: 611	I agree with the gears, and traction bars, it doesent matter how much power you have if you cant get it to the ground. Something else though, is the car a stick or manual? if its an auto a shift kit would also help with the "butt dyno". You'll feel it shift harder and get a little more out of what you have. Also less band wear on the tranny. BTW, was the aircleaner a K&N? Have you already done a good tune up? The Petronix kit is a good suggestion too, you'll never have to play with points again. Just my .02, J __________________ ____________ '66 Mustang Coupe- AKA "Lenore" on disability for a (long) bit '93 GT Mostly stock AKA "Fawkes" Rice Haters Club Member #239 "I find your lack of faith...disturbing." "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." H. L. Mencken

08-27-2004, 09:05 PM	#15
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	Geras and exhaust Ok the Gears: Probably the best thing u can do right now. Since your car proabably has an 8 inch rear, gear swaps are easy. Instead of taking it to the shop, u can switch out the whole third member. Fairly easy to do, and will only take a few hours at most. Start looking online...in the back of catalogs..something like currie enterprises (expensive though) for a new third member with the posi unit or locker already installed. Will come perfectly ready to bolt right into the car. Your 8 inch rear will get u by until you start putting some serious power to the ground...with some sticky tires at that. Exhaust: will get your car sounding and breathing better. Heads: Porting the heads would be a great thing to do, but much more of a consuming project. Fords heads generally suck pretty bad as the guys have mentioned. If u r going to port them, paying a machine shop would be a waste of time. By the time they got u ported out, u would have so much money in them, u would wish u had just saved for a set of aftermarket heads. My advice, go to some cruise-ins....get to know the guys into fords.....show them ur desire to learn, and let their knowledge lead u from there. I wish I had done this sooner, would have saved me a lot of money...and some stupid decisions could have been avoided. Ryan __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

08-28-2004, 03:42 PM	#16
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	Gears, heads I think gears are a good start. I got my 8" at Currie in Ca. Check there for a 8'' 3 rd member with an Auburn Pro limited slip. Don't get the Currie TSD or a Ford Traction-Lock. I used both of those and they are short lived when used with very much power. My first mod woulld be a new exhaust. I use Tri-Y headers with a custom made 2 1/2" pipes. I also use 3 chamber 2 1/.2" FlowMaster mufflers. Mine is still very loud even with the 3 chamber mufflers (no cats). If you want cheap head upgrades I have 351W heads with 1.85/1.54 valves, decked, 3 angle valve job, professionally pocket ported, and with CC 1.6 roller tip rockers included. These heads have about 20,000 miles on them. I upgraded to TFTW heads some time ago. I would sell the 351W's for $350 + shipping, but only after a complete inspection by the shop that built them originally. Complete documentation of the original costs is available. Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe Last edited by Rev; 08-28-2004 at 05:02 PM..

08-28-2004, 03:52 PM	#17
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	Rev's heads would be a good upgrade...at a good price.....wish I would of known you had them before I ported and slightly polished mine Ryan __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

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08-25-2004, 04:59 PM	#1
69grande351 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 16	what should I start with? Hey everyone, I have a 69 mustang with a 302. I was wondering what I should do first to make it have the pants in the seat feel. All I have so far is a new aircleaner and flowmaster 40 series dual exhaust. What should I do now? A 600 cfm car and intake manifold maybe? Longtube headers maybe? Or should I bore the engine out and maybe put some new gears in it? Money is kind of a factor because I am only 18. So anything cheap but will add some horsepower and torque would be great! Thanks for the help.

08-25-2004, 05:11 PM	#2
RDRZ Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Citrus Heights, CA Posts: 74	You say that money is an issue, so if you want to do something like boring the motor, then that will cost a bit. If you do that, you will need to look at new pistons, rings, etc. What combo do you have right now? Is the motor totally stock? If it is, I would look into a cam and intake and new carb, or maybe better flowing heads...

08-25-2004, 05:12 PM	#3
bmxmon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 950	I bet some new rear end gears would help alot.

08-25-2004, 08:29 PM	#4
69grande351 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 16	yes, the motor is totally stock, if I get a cam, how much do you think that would cost to put in, and what type of degree should I get?

08-25-2004, 09:34 PM	#5
6T9PONY All about the Windsor. Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 2,052	I wouldn't mess with the engine just yet. You would have to drop AT LEAST $750 (cam kit, intake manifold, carb, headers) in that thing before you'd start to notice a lot. You still wouldn't gain a whole lot by just doing that, either. The real bottleneck in our Windsor engines is the heads. Cylinder heads are not cheap. You're looking at over a grand just for an assembled set of aluminum heads, not to mention all the other parts you'd need along with them for the install. If I was you I'd start with the rear end. I'm guessing you have an 8" open rear axle with some crappy gears like 3.00:1. That's what my '69 coupe had in it with a 302/auto from the factory. Do you know what gears you have? You could stick with the 8" and upgrade to some steeper gears and a posi unit, but I wouldn't. I'd try to find a 9" rear with posi and determine what gears are in it. If they aren't at least 3.70s, go with something steeper. You'll be able to notice a lot of difference--especially in first gear--if you upgrade from 3.00:1 gears to 3.89s or 4.11s. Just my opinion.....

08-25-2004, 10:26 PM	#6
Fat0eknee I'm slow ...I know. Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston Posts: 518	longtubes would be nice if you have the stock exhaust manifolds ..i also 2nd the rear end gears ..best bang for the buck

08-26-2004, 12:48 AM	#7
65StangerCp Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Sacramento Posts: 8	if you can do the work yourself then port the cylinder heads and get some long tube headers. The ported heads flow alsmost as much as $1000 aftermarket ones and the headers will make even more power then the porting. get a pertonix ignition modual and coil while your at it.-5 minute install All in all your out 250 bucks and you get more than gears can get you for about the same price as just the gears. your gas milage will be hurt with gears and is my suggestion I got another 2 miles to the gallon out of the car.

08-26-2004, 12:25 PM	#8
69grande351 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 16	I have no idea what kind of gears I have, where could I find some gears? I dont know how to port/polish, so how much do you think it would be if it took it to a shop?

08-26-2004, 04:34 PM	#9
65StangerCp Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Sacramento Posts: 8	To find your gear ratio installed in a non-overdrive automatic or manual transmission car verify the speedo is working get a tachometer if you are able to go 65mph @ 2600rpm then you have about a 2.8 or 3.0 rear end ratio if it is more like 3300rpm@65mph then you are already running a lower (lower is more acceleration, less top speed) end gear ratio To buy new gears check out any ford performance store. www.jegs.com or a well know mustang parts dealer are your best bets. jegs has better prices though. If you wish to port and polish (P&P) then get a chiltons manual and learn how to take out the heads so the shop doesnt charge the extra money. Shops charge between $200-400. Rice shops try to sell porting in "stages" in which each stage will cost you more money. The difference to the shop for each stage is not usualy worth the difference in price. Make sure they can give you a flow bench test on your heads, otherwise they can charge you and not do anything - another attribute of the rice shops. If you could do it yourself a port and polish kit only costs $40, but you will have to know what you are doing.- you will also have to buy new gaskets and of course oil. The weakest point of a stock 302 (performance wise) is the flow rate of the intake and exhuast runner in the heads. fix that problem and other changes to the engine will make more power then they would on a stock engine.

08-26-2004, 10:36 PM	#10
69grande351 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 16	would the port and polish do that?

08-26-2004, 11:30 PM	#11
Fat0eknee I'm slow ...I know. Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston Posts: 518	one way to figure out gear ratio, jack the rear of the car up and put it on stands ..put tranny in neutral make a mark on like the rear of the driveshaft and on part of the pumpkin so u can see where it lines up and rotate the tire 1 full rotation ...however many times the driveshaft turns is your ratio also i wouldnt port/polish the stock heads ..i would just stick with what you have and save the money until you can afford like a used pair of aluminum heads for basic mods just to get you goin for now until you can gather some cash ..i suggest #1 gears and a limited slip or locker differential ...traction is a big problem and wheels like to hop ..mine did anyways so i also suggest #2 a nice pair of traction or lift bars i know these things dont necessarily add power but they help get what you already have to the ground which is very important ..i know everybody likes to brag about bigass hp numbers but whats that gonna do if they cant get it to the ground right? #3 im gonna say a nice free flowing exhaust setup go with 2 or 3 chamber flowmasters with a nice set of longtubes and have them dump it right after the muffler ..deep sweet sound that you can hear from miles away but thats just my opinion ..i really dont know anything

08-27-2004, 12:42 PM	#13
69grande351 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 16	it is an auto, and is it hard to put new gears in? I can't seem to find any at jegs.

08-27-2004, 01:07 PM	#14
Fat0eknee I'm slow ...I know. Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston Posts: 518	try looking under ring & pinion ..and unless you know what you are doing i suggest takin them to a shop

08-29-2004, 09:52 PM	#19
69grande351 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 16	I am very interested in these heads, are they reliable? how much horsepower and torque would they make over the stock heads?