Aluminum RRs good for only 20-30K miles??

jimberg · 10-30-2001, 11:51 PM

I read this in one of the Summit catalogs in the Professor Overdrive question. Is this true? My FMS aluminum roller rockers have 55k on them. Should I be worried? Anyone have any experience with failures?

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

Unit 5302 · 10-31-2001, 02:53 AM

I don't really see why they would wear. All the contact points are hardened aren't they?

I've never heard of that. I would also certainly think you'd begin hearing an audible tick if something was going bad.

jwboner · 10-31-2001, 03:30 AM

I also read that in the catalog. I think there has to be something wrong with that answer. I don't see why an aluminum rocker wouldn't last as long as a steel one, the aluminum is thicker in strategic places to make up for being a weaker metal and the rollers in them should be the same as in a steel. The only possible disadvantage I could see is that the weaker metal could crack at the pivot point or at roller tip.

------------------
65 fastback 347 DFI injected, TFS heads, MSD, cable T5 w/Hurst, 4.11 9", tc subframe conns, custom traction bars, griffen alum. radiator torq thrust D's, and a daily warrior

Rick 91GT · 10-31-2001, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Unit 5302:
I don't really see why they would wear. All the contact points are hardened aren't they?

I've never heard of that. I would also certainly think you'd begin hearing an audible tick if something was going bad.

I was reading that last night as well and I think something is wrong with that answer as well. I had a set of 1.7's for 35K with no problems or wear issues, and my 1.6's with 18K on them look new.

What about the Helix TB spacer in the Mustang section advertising 20HP? Jim what do ou think of that?

------------------
Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,30#,76mm C&L,75mm Accufab, Full MAC, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension, SPEC stage III clutch, Lakewood SFI bell, S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 33 splines coming very soon!
[b]12.16 @ 113.5, 1.78

jimberg · 10-31-2001, 10:32 AM

Unit, they sure looked hardened to me. All of the bearings are made out of steel. The only thing that's aluminum is the body of the rocker. I wonder if Summit is going to get a lot of calls about that "advice".

Rick, I don't buy it for a second. With all the bends that air has to take getting into the combustion chamber, there is no way a vortex would even persist long enough to "improve fuel atomization". I also don't buy that air velocity is increased. This is clearly targeted at people who think like ricers.

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

PKRWUD · 10-31-2001, 11:23 AM

I haven't read the article you're talking about, but I would tend to agree with it. I honestly can't remember if I read it in a catalog insert, was told by my number one parts man or if I was taught it in my college engines class, but at somepoint in my career, I was educated to the fact that the biggest downside to aluminum full roller rockers was their lifespan. I wish I could remember when and where I learned this, but it must have been a while ago because to me, this was common knowledge. Wrenching on engines with them installed over the years confirmed this. I might question the 20k - 30k mileage statement, but I'm sure they're just averaging. In a full race 1/4 mile engine, aluminum RR's need to be replaced at seasons end due to wear, and they probably have seen less than 15 miles. In a mild street/strip application, 25k miles is pushing the limit. In a daily driver that doesn't see a track more than 2 or 3 times a year, 50k miles would be the maximum expected lifespan. This doesn't mean they can't last longer, just don't expect them to. We replace the aluminum RR's in our Sprint car mid-season, after maybe 75 miles. They are noticably worn and loose when we replace them, but are by no means shot. We just have alot riding on the engine remaining "tight", and have stricter standards. Basically, it boils down to the fact that there are alot more contact points to wear, and once wear starts, it accelerates rapidly. In NASCAR, they are thrown away after every race. Jim, if you've got 55k miles on yours, I would back them off and inspect them, along side a brand new one if possible. I think you'll be surprised.

Take care,
-Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop

My teams site: Jim Porter Racing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

jimberg · 10-31-2001, 11:49 AM

Chris, where would I be looking for wear?

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

PKRWUD · 10-31-2001, 12:13 PM

Between the trunion and the cross shaft. Check for any up/down and/or side to side play, as well as any "wobble". Next, check for any overly worn areas on the roller tip. Check it for out of round and/or flat spots. Last, check for wear at the push rod contact point. From personal experience, the wear I've seen most common is excessive wear in the trunion with the needle bearings. One or more wear faster, creating a slight out of round condition. Once this starts, it wears rapidly until it becomes egg shaped. Actually reaching this point is unlikely because you would have heard it long before it became visually egg shaped. There shouldn't be any play between the shaft and the trunion. If there is, wear has become too excessive. The best way to see what I mean is by comparing one of your old ones with a new, unused one, if possible.

Take care,
-Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop

My teams site: Jim Porter Racing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

haulin'balz · 10-31-2001, 02:26 PM

I have never heard of that before, but I don't buy it at all!

------------------
'90 5.0 LX - heads, intake, cam, fuel delivery, gears, full exhaust, pulleys, ignition, drag springs, front brake upgrade, a/c delete, K&N cone filter charger.......and much more!
1/4 mile: 12.29 @115
60': 1.78

exgmguy · 10-31-2001, 04:58 PM

They do wear. The roller bearings in them get sloppy. I found that when I compared mine to a new set.

------------------
1988 Mustang GT
11.8 @ 123 (7/14/01)
11.5 @ 120 (9/14/01)
1992 BadAzz Wrangler
1993 Explorer

See my car at: www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?179

Rick 91GT · 10-31-2001, 05:06 PM

This has got pretty damn interesting, I guess it also has to do with if they have been properly set as well. I wuld think that a pedestal mount would be more acceptable to wear since it relies on the shims, rather then a stud mount which relies on push rod length and pressure? Am I thinking correctly? I'll have to inspect mine this winter when it's apart. I wonder if they are rebuilable if I find the bearings?

Jim- I didn't buy that whole Vortex thing either just wanted to know if anyone saw it

and laughed like I did

------------------
Check Out My Site 91GT,[bSpeedbrain ECU[/b],Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,30#,76mm C&L,75mm Accufab, Full MAC, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension, SPEC stage III clutch, Lakewood SFI bell, S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 33 splines coming very soon!
<B

Unit 5302 · 10-31-2001, 07:56 PM

I'd have to say if that's the case, then somebody needs to design a better aluminum rocker. Anything that does not have direct contact with moving parts should not wear, and anything that does should be made from hardened material.

jimberg · 10-31-2001, 08:18 PM

I guess if I'm probably going to be replacing them soon, what would be a more durable solution?

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

PKRWUD · 10-31-2001, 08:49 PM

Damn Jim, you sound so depressed! Forget I said anything. You're right, it must have been a typo.

Not buying it, huh? Okay. In that case...

I'd replace them with another set of aluminum RR's. How many miles do you travel per year? A couple hundred bucks will likely get you another 50k miles. I think it's worth it. They operate with a constant ratio (unlike sled-fulcrumed rockers), at least until they wear. They reduce friction and side loading on the valve stem, and help equalize lift from cylinder to cylinder. They're also quieter. Speaking of which, that's another clue that your RR's are worn; when they become louder than stock rockers).

Jim, do me a favor. Pull one of yours off and go to your local speed shop and compare it with a new one. There are exceptions to every rule, and you just might be it. I want you to compare them before you spend any money. I'm sure you'll end up replacing them, but check first anyway.

Take care,
-Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop

My teams site: Jim Porter Racing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

Coupe Devil · 10-31-2001, 10:36 PM

PKRWUD I'm not trying to be a smarta$$ but is there anything you dont know. I have been really paying attention to your posts and replies lately. Everything you say is technically perfect. I mean Da&# man. You make me feel like a fool. Just wanted to say i'm glad you are here to lend a hand. I have started researching my parts purchases alot more lately.

------------------
'93 lx notch 4 banger (drive it to work currently), Using the 306, 8.8 posi, 4.10's, summit rear cover, elec. fan, cowl hood, wieand stealth intake, Heddman 1-3/4 long tubes, holley 650 d.p.carb., built c-?, e-303, full autometer guages, msd box, mallory unilite dist, and coil, roll cage, summit seat, subs, 15x10's in the back with slicks, skinnies up front, custom dash, all in use for 1988 Hatch Drag Car.

jimberg · 10-31-2001, 10:51 PM

Don't worry about me being depressed, I'm not. I planned to pull the engine and give it the once over soon anyway (probably in the spring). I'm surprised my engine has held together so well considering the pressure I was under to get it all put together. It was just kind of a surprise that the life expectancy was so short for something that looks a hell of a lot more durable than stock. I will inspect them before I replace them, of course. You're right, though, $250 after 55K miles is not really a whole lot of money.

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

PKRWUD · 11-01-2001, 03:35 AM

pony_power_90-
Dude, thanks for the kind words. I sure hope I don't really make you feel like a fool. You're not. And yes, there are tons of things I don't know. I do like learning, though, and I enjoy teaching as well. I have accomplished quite a bit for a 35 year old, and I am proud of it. But I'm not one of those smug pricks that will sit there and watch someone fail when they could be helping them. I love helping people. I worked 4 years in a hospital (2 in nursing and 2 in x-ray) from 1990 to 1994, and absolutely loved helping the patients and their families. I had a hard time with them dying, though. At least when an engine dies, I can rebuild it. I also really enjoy taking some of the mystery out of auto repair for others who are trying to understand. That's why I usually try to explain my answers to these posts when I can.
I screwed up my ankle at the end of August, and am still recovering from it, and have been spending alot more time at home than I'm used to. As a result, I have been able to spend alot more time at MW. I still have my commitment to the Sprint car team I work for, but that doesn't take up that much time. We only have two more points races left this season. As far as me knowing a few things, you've got to understand, I have been turning wrenches since 1980, and supporting myself at it since 1994. I took about 4 years worth of college classes covering everything automotive in the 1980's, and have passed every ASE certification test I have taken, except one. I have always specialized in high performance engine work and repair, but have had to do just about everything to make ends meet. I got to be a mechanic for Bill Elliott in 1998, and have crewed for an IMCA and VRA Sprint car team for the past 2 years. We stand an excellent chance of winning our division this season. I also took a class in PC repair and Networking, and became A+ certified. No biggie, but it gave me good info to have. I built my first Harley from the ground up, but I also rebuilt an '86 Honda VF1000R that had been involved in a 45mph head-on crash, and came to me in boxes. One of my best friends used to own his own speed parts shop, but has been working for Hawaii Racing for the past 5 years or so. He's a big help when it comes to catalogs for researching part numbers, and for inside info from different manuacturers. Right now the SEMA (Specialty Equipment Market Association) Show is going on in Vegas. Everybody who is anybody in the automotive world is there showing off their newest creations. 6200 booths and displays from both automakers and aftermarket equipment manufacturers are filled with the best (check it out: http://www.appcluster03.com/App/main...=16&AppName=76 ). Anyway, I am a SEMA member, and was going to go, but with my ankle and a points race this Saturday, I decided not to. BUT, Joe, the owner of Hawaii Racing, is there, and he will bring back boxes of new "stuff'. This I look forward to like Christmas. This helps keep me on top of things. I also have a decent collection of manuals. They come in handy when I can't remember the specifics.

Anyway, I can't sew. I can't type (I hunt and peck). I can't cook (I can burn toast and boil water). I have trouble comprehending the jet engine and the rotary engine. I don't know alot of stats on Mopar engines, but I do respect them. I don't understand most women. I've never used a scope (although I have a busted Sun TUT-915). I'm terrible at managing my money, and have no business skills. I don't understand how there can be fog in the desert. I have trouble accepting the fact that every single thing my computer does is based on nothing more than 1's and 0's. I don't understand why drugs are illegal, or why there are so many laws that there for our protection from ourselves. I don't understand how the earth can be spinning at over 1000 miles an hour, yet there's not even a breeze outside right now. I don't understand why anyone would buy a PC when they could own a Mac. I don't understand how so much information can be passed through the tiny copper wires in my DSL cable so quickly. I don't know how to fish. I don't understand how we can take pictures of parts of the universe that are millions of light years away. How did they determine the exact speed of light, anyway? I don't understand how Death Valley can be 280' below sea level, yet remains bone dry.

Dude, there's a whole lot I don't know.

Now I'm the one who feels like a fool.

Take care,
-Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop

My teams site: Jim Porter Racing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

Chevyguy · 11-01-2001, 08:22 AM

Hey Chris after reading your pearls of wisdom, I checked out Comp Cam's site. Do you think their cast steel rockers will have the same wear problems? I suspect they may since there is a version that is labeled "rebuildable". I suspect the problem is similar with Chevy motors too, although the 1.6 ratio and 1.7 ratio rockers probably add more stress to the pivot bearings than a 1.5 ratio does.

I'll throw this question up at Chevy talk, though this point has never come up there

------------------
Frank W 90 5.0 LX Notch MAC 2.5"cat bk FMS alu ds, MSD coil, MAC shifter 2.73 gears user site
88 Notch 2.3L FOR SALE! My two Notchbacks
74 Chevy Laguna Type S-3 305 now 454 soon My web site

matt cook · 11-01-2001, 09:39 AM

I know all the stuff that PKRWUD doesn't, so I guess that we have it covered. We just need a 'why do clocks run clockwise' forum...

ha, great list...

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1982 Mustang GT

jimberg · 11-01-2001, 09:47 AM

If it's the bearings themselves that wear on the aluminum RRs than it must be true about the steel RRs since the aluminum RRs have steel bearings.

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

10-30-2001, 11:51 PM	#1
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	Aluminum RRs good for only 20-30K miles?? I read this in one of the Summit catalogs in the Professor Overdrive question. Is this true? My FMS aluminum roller rockers have 55k on them. Should I be worried? Anyone have any experience with failures? ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

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10-31-2001, 02:53 AM	#2
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	I don't really see why they would wear. All the contact points are hardened aren't they? I've never heard of that. I would also certainly think you'd begin hearing an audible tick if something was going bad.

10-31-2001, 03:30 AM	#3
jwboner Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Under the hood Posts: 164	I also read that in the catalog. I think there has to be something wrong with that answer. I don't see why an aluminum rocker wouldn't last as long as a steel one, the aluminum is thicker in strategic places to make up for being a weaker metal and the rollers in them should be the same as in a steel. The only possible disadvantage I could see is that the weaker metal could crack at the pivot point or at roller tip. ------------------ 65 fastback 347 DFI injected, TFS heads, MSD, cable T5 w/Hurst, 4.11 9", tc subframe conns, custom traction bars, griffen alum. radiator torq thrust D's, and a daily warrior

10-31-2001, 10:32 AM	#5
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	Unit, they sure looked hardened to me. All of the bearings are made out of steel. The only thing that's aluminum is the body of the rocker. I wonder if Summit is going to get a lot of calls about that "advice". Rick, I don't buy it for a second. With all the bends that air has to take getting into the combustion chamber, there is no way a vortex would even persist long enough to "improve fuel atomization". I also don't buy that air velocity is increased. This is clearly targeted at people who think like ricers. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

10-31-2001, 11:23 AM	#6
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	I haven't read the article you're talking about, but I would tend to agree with it. I honestly can't remember if I read it in a catalog insert, was told by my number one parts man or if I was taught it in my college engines class, but at somepoint in my career, I was educated to the fact that the biggest downside to aluminum full roller rockers was their lifespan. I wish I could remember when and where I learned this, but it must have been a while ago because to me, this was common knowledge. Wrenching on engines with them installed over the years confirmed this. I might question the 20k - 30k mileage statement, but I'm sure they're just averaging. In a full race 1/4 mile engine, aluminum RR's need to be replaced at seasons end due to wear, and they probably have seen less than 15 miles. In a mild street/strip application, 25k miles is pushing the limit. In a daily driver that doesn't see a track more than 2 or 3 times a year, 50k miles would be the maximum expected lifespan. This doesn't mean they can't last longer, just don't expect them to. We replace the aluminum RR's in our Sprint car mid-season, after maybe 75 miles. They are noticably worn and loose when we replace them, but are by no means shot. We just have alot riding on the engine remaining "tight", and have stricter standards. Basically, it boils down to the fact that there are alot more contact points to wear, and once wear starts, it accelerates rapidly. In NASCAR, they are thrown away after every race. Jim, if you've got 55k miles on yours, I would back them off and inspect them, along side a brand new one if possible. I think you'll be surprised. Take care, -Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop My teams site: Jim Porter Racing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

10-31-2001, 11:49 AM	#7
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	Chris, where would I be looking for wear? ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

10-31-2001, 12:13 PM	#8
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Between the trunion and the cross shaft. Check for any up/down and/or side to side play, as well as any "wobble". Next, check for any overly worn areas on the roller tip. Check it for out of round and/or flat spots. Last, check for wear at the push rod contact point. From personal experience, the wear I've seen most common is excessive wear in the trunion with the needle bearings. One or more wear faster, creating a slight out of round condition. Once this starts, it wears rapidly until it becomes egg shaped. Actually reaching this point is unlikely because you would have heard it long before it became visually egg shaped. There shouldn't be any play between the shaft and the trunion. If there is, wear has become too excessive. The best way to see what I mean is by comparing one of your old ones with a new, unused one, if possible. Take care, -Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop My teams site: Jim Porter Racing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

10-31-2001, 02:26 PM	#9
haulin'balz The Notorious One Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: NY Posts: 51	I have never heard of that before, but I don't buy it at all! ------------------ '90 5.0 LX - heads, intake, cam, fuel delivery, gears, full exhaust, pulleys, ignition, drag springs, front brake upgrade, a/c delete, K&N cone filter charger.......and much more! 1/4 mile: 12.29 @115 60': 1.78

10-31-2001, 04:58 PM	#10
exgmguy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Utica, Michigan Posts: 2,631	They do wear. The roller bearings in them get sloppy. I found that when I compared mine to a new set. ------------------ 1988 Mustang GT 11.8 @ 123 (7/14/01) 11.5 @ 120 (9/14/01) 1992 BadAzz Wrangler 1993 Explorer See my car at: www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?179

10-31-2001, 05:06 PM	#11
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	This has got pretty damn interesting, I guess it also has to do with if they have been properly set as well. I wuld think that a pedestal mount would be more acceptable to wear since it relies on the shims, rather then a stud mount which relies on push rod length and pressure? Am I thinking correctly? I'll have to inspect mine this winter when it's apart. I wonder if they are rebuilable if I find the bearings? Jim- I didn't buy that whole Vortex thing either just wanted to know if anyone saw it and laughed like I did ------------------ Check Out My Site 91GT,[bSpeedbrain ECU[/b],Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,30#,76mm C&L,75mm Accufab, Full MAC, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension, SPEC stage III clutch, Lakewood SFI bell, S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 33 splines coming very soon! <B

10-31-2001, 07:56 PM	#12
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	I'd have to say if that's the case, then somebody needs to design a better aluminum rocker. Anything that does not have direct contact with moving parts should not wear, and anything that does should be made from hardened material.

10-31-2001, 08:18 PM	#13
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	I guess if I'm probably going to be replacing them soon, what would be a more durable solution? ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

10-31-2001, 08:49 PM	#14
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Damn Jim, you sound so depressed! Forget I said anything. You're right, it must have been a typo. Not buying it, huh? Okay. In that case... I'd replace them with another set of aluminum RR's. How many miles do you travel per year? A couple hundred bucks will likely get you another 50k miles. I think it's worth it. They operate with a constant ratio (unlike sled-fulcrumed rockers), at least until they wear. They reduce friction and side loading on the valve stem, and help equalize lift from cylinder to cylinder. They're also quieter. Speaking of which, that's another clue that your RR's are worn; when they become louder than stock rockers). Jim, do me a favor. Pull one of yours off and go to your local speed shop and compare it with a new one. There are exceptions to every rule, and you just might be it. I want you to compare them before you spend any money. I'm sure you'll end up replacing them, but check first anyway. Take care, -Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop My teams site: Jim Porter Racing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

10-31-2001, 10:36 PM	#15
Coupe Devil Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Myrtle Beach SC Posts: 1,643	PKRWUD I'm not trying to be a smarta$$ but is there anything you dont know. I have been really paying attention to your posts and replies lately. Everything you say is technically perfect. I mean Da&# man. You make me feel like a fool. Just wanted to say i'm glad you are here to lend a hand. I have started researching my parts purchases alot more lately. ------------------ '93 lx notch 4 banger (drive it to work currently), Using the 306, 8.8 posi, 4.10's, summit rear cover, elec. fan, cowl hood, wieand stealth intake, Heddman 1-3/4 long tubes, holley 650 d.p.carb., built c-?, e-303, full autometer guages, msd box, mallory unilite dist, and coil, roll cage, summit seat, subs, 15x10's in the back with slicks, skinnies up front, custom dash, all in use for 1988 Hatch Drag Car.

10-31-2001, 10:51 PM	#16
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	Don't worry about me being depressed, I'm not. I planned to pull the engine and give it the once over soon anyway (probably in the spring). I'm surprised my engine has held together so well considering the pressure I was under to get it all put together. It was just kind of a surprise that the life expectancy was so short for something that looks a hell of a lot more durable than stock. I will inspect them before I replace them, of course. You're right, though, $250 after 55K miles is not really a whole lot of money. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

11-01-2001, 03:35 AM	#17
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	pony_power_90- Dude, thanks for the kind words. I sure hope I don't really make you feel like a fool. You're not. And yes, there are tons of things I don't know. I do like learning, though, and I enjoy teaching as well. I have accomplished quite a bit for a 35 year old, and I am proud of it. But I'm not one of those smug pricks that will sit there and watch someone fail when they could be helping them. I love helping people. I worked 4 years in a hospital (2 in nursing and 2 in x-ray) from 1990 to 1994, and absolutely loved helping the patients and their families. I had a hard time with them dying, though. At least when an engine dies, I can rebuild it. I also really enjoy taking some of the mystery out of auto repair for others who are trying to understand. That's why I usually try to explain my answers to these posts when I can. I screwed up my ankle at the end of August, and am still recovering from it, and have been spending alot more time at home than I'm used to. As a result, I have been able to spend alot more time at MW. I still have my commitment to the Sprint car team I work for, but that doesn't take up that much time. We only have two more points races left this season. As far as me knowing a few things, you've got to understand, I have been turning wrenches since 1980, and supporting myself at it since 1994. I took about 4 years worth of college classes covering everything automotive in the 1980's, and have passed every ASE certification test I have taken, except one. I have always specialized in high performance engine work and repair, but have had to do just about everything to make ends meet. I got to be a mechanic for Bill Elliott in 1998, and have crewed for an IMCA and VRA Sprint car team for the past 2 years. We stand an excellent chance of winning our division this season. I also took a class in PC repair and Networking, and became A+ certified. No biggie, but it gave me good info to have. I built my first Harley from the ground up, but I also rebuilt an '86 Honda VF1000R that had been involved in a 45mph head-on crash, and came to me in boxes. One of my best friends used to own his own speed parts shop, but has been working for Hawaii Racing for the past 5 years or so. He's a big help when it comes to catalogs for researching part numbers, and for inside info from different manuacturers. Right now the SEMA (Specialty Equipment Market Association) Show is going on in Vegas. Everybody who is anybody in the automotive world is there showing off their newest creations. 6200 booths and displays from both automakers and aftermarket equipment manufacturers are filled with the best (check it out: http://www.appcluster03.com/App/main...=16&AppName=76 ). Anyway, I am a SEMA member, and was going to go, but with my ankle and a points race this Saturday, I decided not to. BUT, Joe, the owner of Hawaii Racing, is there, and he will bring back boxes of new "stuff'. This I look forward to like Christmas. This helps keep me on top of things. I also have a decent collection of manuals. They come in handy when I can't remember the specifics. Anyway, I can't sew. I can't type (I hunt and peck). I can't cook (I can burn toast and boil water). I have trouble comprehending the jet engine and the rotary engine. I don't know alot of stats on Mopar engines, but I do respect them. I don't understand most women. I've never used a scope (although I have a busted Sun TUT-915). I'm terrible at managing my money, and have no business skills. I don't understand how there can be fog in the desert. I have trouble accepting the fact that every single thing my computer does is based on nothing more than 1's and 0's. I don't understand why drugs are illegal, or why there are so many laws that there for our protection from ourselves. I don't understand how the earth can be spinning at over 1000 miles an hour, yet there's not even a breeze outside right now. I don't understand why anyone would buy a PC when they could own a Mac. I don't understand how so much information can be passed through the tiny copper wires in my DSL cable so quickly. I don't know how to fish. I don't understand how we can take pictures of parts of the universe that are millions of light years away. How did they determine the exact speed of light, anyway? I don't understand how Death Valley can be 280' below sea level, yet remains bone dry. Dude, there's a whole lot I don't know. Now I'm the one who feels like a fool. Take care, -Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop My teams site: Jim Porter Racing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

11-01-2001, 08:22 AM	#18
Chevyguy Backyard Mechanic/Chemist Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Acton MA USA Posts: 435	Hey Chris after reading your pearls of wisdom, I checked out Comp Cam's site. Do you think their cast steel rockers will have the same wear problems? I suspect they may since there is a version that is labeled "rebuildable". I suspect the problem is similar with Chevy motors too, although the 1.6 ratio and 1.7 ratio rockers probably add more stress to the pivot bearings than a 1.5 ratio does. I'll throw this question up at Chevy talk, though this point has never come up there ------------------ Frank W 90 5.0 LX Notch MAC 2.5"cat bk FMS alu ds, MSD coil, MAC shifter 2.73 gears user site 88 Notch 2.3L FOR SALE! My two Notchbacks 74 Chevy Laguna Type S-3 305 now 454 soon My web site

11-01-2001, 09:39 AM	#19
matt cook Registered Member Join Date: Dec 1998 Location: Richmond, Virginia Posts: 449	I know all the stuff that PKRWUD doesn't, so I guess that we have it covered. We just need a 'why do clocks run clockwise' forum... ha, great list... ------------------ 1982 Mustang GT

11-01-2001, 09:47 AM	#20
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	If it's the bearings themselves that wear on the aluminum RRs than it must be true about the steel RRs since the aluminum RRs have steel bearings. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible