351W Vs 460

ImportKiller · 10-12-2002, 11:51 PM

My Compadre wants to know what will work better on his
1971 Mach 1, he currently has 351C 4V.

He is debating between the 351 Windsor or the Big block 460?

What do you think?

mustangII460 · 10-13-2002, 04:03 AM

Being a big block fan, i'll say big block.

Although if you want to do alot of turning in your car, a small block does not weigh 720 lbs.

385 series motors are not very expensive to build. They yeild lots of power with few mods.

Theres nothing like answering people, "Its a 460."

Gotta love that torqe!

PKRWUD · 10-13-2002, 05:11 AM

I'd keep the 351C 4V!!!

Take care,
~Chris

lx mike · 10-13-2002, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PKRWUD
I'd keep the 351C 4V!!!

Take care,
~Chris

I agree!!!

Wouldn't take much to make that thing scream!!

jim_howard_pdx · 10-13-2002, 11:54 AM

If the car is primarily a street and highway car, the 351 C can be built to supply up to 500 HP very nicely. Unfortunately, the 351 C is a heavy motor. A 460 block, with offset grinding on the crank can give you 500+ cubic inches displacement, and with aluminum heads and intake you would have 600+ HP and weigh about the same. 600+ HP does not make for a good street or highway engine.

I would build a 351 W block, stroked to 408, run the new Trick Flow R heads with a solid roller cam. That will get you between 500-600 HP be lighter than the cleveland or the 460 and make as much power. You will need custom headers for this conversion. JBA may have them already.

The 460 can be modified to run 600-800 HP. If your friend likes drag racing. This is the only way to go.

He needs to reinforce his shock towers, run subframe connectors, and at least a 4 point roll bar to take the power of a 460. Its all in the torque, and a 460 delivers that in spades.

Hope this helps.

The Deuce · 10-16-2002, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PKRWUD
I'd keep the 351C 4V!!!

Take care,
~Chris

No, he should pull it and give it to me for free! That would go nicely in a 64 Fairlane.

joinrdie · 10-16-2002, 06:12 PM

You could also find some Australian heads for that cleveland. These heads have the 2V port size, but have a closed chamber design that yields higher compression and better burning. They also deliver better torque and power at low rpms than the 4V heads because of the smaller ports. Since street driving generally happens at low rpms, that sounds like a good thing to me. They basically make a cleveland into a hemi.

Boss heads will also fit a Cleveland. These have closed chambers like the aussie heads, but have the golf-ball sized 4V ports. They can get pricey, but I think they're also available in aluminum, since you seem concerned about weight.

I've seen these heads on ebay, but i don't think there are many around - supply and demand rules here.

one · 10-17-2002, 01:01 PM

I have had the 4v heads and now have the 2v Australian. Have got to tell you that the Aussy heads were much better on the street then the 4v heads. Although you didn't say if they were closed or open chamber I will guess they are open do to closed being so hard to find. I have also had a 351W. Don't know if money is an issue but. It wouldn't cost to much to build the 351C and have some Aussy heads worked. That will make some nice power, could stroke it too and be a real nice motor. Or if money is no issue, then sell it to DEUCE and get a 351 W. There is so much that you can do to those right now it is not even funny. Still kind of limited as far as heads,blocks, ect on the 351 C.

Just my 2 cents

One

rbohm · 10-20-2002, 03:10 AM

jim, the 351c weighs about the same as a 351w, about 550lbs. the 460 on the other hand weighs in at 720lbs. if i didnt want a 351c(the fool!!), and i wanted a car that would turn corners as well as go straight i would build a 3351w based 393 or 408. if i wanted to give up some cornering ability for some serious power then a 460 based motor, something between 514 and 600 ci, would get people with lesser motors to bow down to me.

hobgoblin351 · 10-20-2002, 11:55 AM

Jim pretty much spelled it out. It depends on wht you intend it use it for. If you're really gonna just race it the 460 is hard to argue against. But if you intend to run on the street 600-800 horsepower is overkill. That kind of power gives you 2 speeds stop and OH MY GODDDDDD!
The windsor has good potential, with all the stroker kits. That and you can run EFI, basically anything that can be bolted up to a 5.0. But I hope you have the $$$. Nothing that you have now in the car will work with the windsor. You'll have to supply the engine, accessories, intake, and tranny.
I had a 351c-2v. Went out and got closed chamber 4v heads, had them machined to run adjustable rockers, and it screams!! forget the 2v Aussie heads they have no top end. Put port plates on the intake side of the 4v heads and that will help the intake charge velocity, and thus your low RPM performance, while not chokeing off your top end.
It's easy to make Horsepower! You just have to figure out what you want to use it for, and how much $$$$$ you want to spend! Good luck!

rbohm · 10-21-2002, 12:51 AM

hobgoblin, you can use the tranny from the 351c with the 351w as the bolt patterns are the same. engine mounts also will swap. iirc you can also use the flexplate/flywheel as well but i am not quite sure on that one. the 351m/400 is a different story however.

10-12-2002, 11:51 PM	#1
ImportKiller Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chula vista, CA Posts: 67	351W Vs 460 My Compadre wants to know what will work better on his 1971 Mach 1, he currently has 351C 4V. He is debating between the 351 Windsor or the Big block 460? What do you think? __________________ "Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." http://geocities.com/team340maxim 1989 Mustang LX 5.0 JBA Headers, Bassani X-Pipe Mac 3' Catback system.

10-13-2002, 04:03 AM	#2
mustangII460 Factoy Five Roadster Join Date: May 2000 Location: Sevier Co,Tennessee Posts: 1,681	Being a big block fan, i'll say big block. Although if you want to do alot of turning in your car, a small block does not weigh 720 lbs. 385 series motors are not very expensive to build. They yeild lots of power with few mods. Theres nothing like answering people, "Its a 460." Gotta love that torqe! __________________ Frank

10-13-2002, 05:11 AM	#3
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	I'd keep the 351C 4V!!! Take care, ~Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

10-13-2002, 11:54 AM	#5
jim_howard_pdx Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 247	If the car is primarily a street and highway car, the 351 C can be built to supply up to 500 HP very nicely. Unfortunately, the 351 C is a heavy motor. A 460 block, with offset grinding on the crank can give you 500+ cubic inches displacement, and with aluminum heads and intake you would have 600+ HP and weigh about the same. 600+ HP does not make for a good street or highway engine. I would build a 351 W block, stroked to 408, run the new Trick Flow R heads with a solid roller cam. That will get you between 500-600 HP be lighter than the cleveland or the 460 and make as much power. You will need custom headers for this conversion. JBA may have them already. The 460 can be modified to run 600-800 HP. If your friend likes drag racing. This is the only way to go. He needs to reinforce his shock towers, run subframe connectors, and at least a 4 point roll bar to take the power of a 460. Its all in the torque, and a 460 delivers that in spades. Hope this helps. __________________ 1966 Customized for daily street and highway domination. 358 Windsor running 425 HP C-4 Auto and 3.25 Posi

10-16-2002, 06:12 PM	#7
joinrdie Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Aurora/Boulder, CO Posts: 57	2V aussie heads You could also find some Australian heads for that cleveland. These heads have the 2V port size, but have a closed chamber design that yields higher compression and better burning. They also deliver better torque and power at low rpms than the 4V heads because of the smaller ports. Since street driving generally happens at low rpms, that sounds like a good thing to me. They basically make a cleveland into a hemi. Boss heads will also fit a Cleveland. These have closed chambers like the aussie heads, but have the golf-ball sized 4V ports. They can get pricey, but I think they're also available in aluminum, since you seem concerned about weight. I've seen these heads on ebay, but i don't think there are many around - supply and demand rules here. __________________ '73 Mach 1 351C+.030" 2V, FMX Holley 750, Edelbrock, Hedman, Lunati Cam http://www.mach-sr1.org

10-17-2002, 01:01 PM	#8
one Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: somewhere outside of nowhere Posts: 82	I have had the 4v heads and now have the 2v Australian. Have got to tell you that the Aussy heads were much better on the street then the 4v heads. Although you didn't say if they were closed or open chamber I will guess they are open do to closed being so hard to find. I have also had a 351W. Don't know if money is an issue but. It wouldn't cost to much to build the 351C and have some Aussy heads worked. That will make some nice power, could stroke it too and be a real nice motor. Or if money is no issue, then sell it to DEUCE and get a 351 W. There is so much that you can do to those right now it is not even funny. Still kind of limited as far as heads,blocks, ect on the 351 C. Just my 2 cents One

10-20-2002, 03:10 AM	#9
rbohm Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: tucson,az/luray,va Posts: 243	jim, the 351c weighs about the same as a 351w, about 550lbs. the 460 on the other hand weighs in at 720lbs. if i didnt want a 351c(the fool!!), and i wanted a car that would turn corners as well as go straight i would build a 3351w based 393 or 408. if i wanted to give up some cornering ability for some serious power then a 460 based motor, something between 514 and 600 ci, would get people with lesser motors to bow down to me. __________________ define irony: a bunch of idiots on a plane, dancing to a song made famous, by a band who died in a plane crash. fordsix.com admin

10-20-2002, 11:55 AM	#10
hobgoblin351 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 245	Jim pretty much spelled it out. It depends on wht you intend it use it for. If you're really gonna just race it the 460 is hard to argue against. But if you intend to run on the street 600-800 horsepower is overkill. That kind of power gives you 2 speeds stop and OH MY GODDDDDD! The windsor has good potential, with all the stroker kits. That and you can run EFI, basically anything that can be bolted up to a 5.0. But I hope you have the $$$. Nothing that you have now in the car will work with the windsor. You'll have to supply the engine, accessories, intake, and tranny. I had a 351c-2v. Went out and got closed chamber 4v heads, had them machined to run adjustable rockers, and it screams!! forget the 2v Aussie heads they have no top end. Put port plates on the intake side of the 4v heads and that will help the intake charge velocity, and thus your low RPM performance, while not chokeing off your top end. It's easy to make Horsepower! You just have to figure out what you want to use it for, and how much $$$$$ you want to spend! Good luck!

10-21-2002, 12:51 AM	#11
rbohm Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: tucson,az/luray,va Posts: 243	hobgoblin, you can use the tranny from the 351c with the 351w as the bolt patterns are the same. engine mounts also will swap. iirc you can also use the flexplate/flywheel as well but i am not quite sure on that one. the 351m/400 is a different story however. __________________ define irony: a bunch of idiots on a plane, dancing to a song made famous, by a band who died in a plane crash. fordsix.com admin

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