Battery/Starter problem?

Kitty67 · 10-06-2003, 02:32 PM

I have a problem starting my 67. She has a fairly new battery and good leads (connections appear fine).

When cold it starts fine, the problem occurs after running for a while (hot) and turning off and then on again. Seems there is only one turn of the crank and it sounds like the battery is dead....leave it for about 3 mins and the engine turns fast and fires instantly.

Can anyone offer any advice about this....it's driving me nuts!

Could it be the solenoid (sp?) or starter motor?

Any replies greatfully recieved

mustangII460 · 10-06-2003, 04:35 PM

Load test your battery but I suspect it's your starter. Common problem with the older ones. Get a NEW one not rebuilt.

Rev · 10-06-2003, 07:57 PM

I agree with mustangII460. I think what's happening is that the older starter is getting "heat soaked". This happens even with new starters, but they are in good enough shape that the car still cranks. An older,weaker, starter will sometimes barely even crank when very hot. This is a sign that the starter is failing.

Being a cheap skate, I buy a rebuilt one from AutoZone with a life time warranty that usually lasts 2-3 years. They've replaced about 2 or 3 so far since 1995. I just keep bringing them back and make them give me a new one (keep the sales slip). BTW, most auto supply stores will test your starter for you if you bring it in.

Rev

rwhite65 · 10-06-2003, 07:59 PM

did the starting problem occur after messing with the vehicle's timing? Have you checked it lately?
Ryan

Kitty67 · 10-06-2003, 10:44 PM

No Ryan, the timing hasn't been touched (or checked), will get onto it tho.

I have never heard of 'heat soak' but that describes what is happening, so I'll start there...

Cheers guys, thanks for the replies

Rev · 10-06-2003, 10:51 PM

It's true that too much initial advance or high compression will make a car hard to crank. Not usually heat related though.

Rev

rwhite65 · 10-07-2003, 05:18 AM

the times I have seen it have not been heat related in regards to the climate, but when the engine was warmed up. These guys are probably right on the "heat soak" problem, since you have not messed with the timing.....seems unlikely it would have changed, but something to think about.

Never experienced the "heat soak", but glad I know about it now, sure it will happen to me sooner or later.
Ryan

Kisner · 10-07-2003, 12:44 PM

Have same problem with my 68. Starts perfect when cold but if I drive it for an extended length of time, cut it off, and immediately try to re-start it, it has a hard time. After the starter cools, it cranks with no problem. Was also told this was a common problem with the older Mustangs.

rwhite65 · 10-07-2003, 05:38 PM

The old starter was so big and heavy on mine, that I changed it before I had problems. It was so big, made it a task to get out with the full length headers. I replaced it with a ford mini starter from the junk yard...now it spins the engine over with great ease and I have lots of room near the headers.

mustangman65_79 · 10-08-2003, 04:16 AM

Heat soak is a common starter problem. Chevy's have it more then us because of their starter soleniod is on the starter. Basicaly, Elictricity has more resitance when something is warm, then cold. So if your starter is going out and already has high resitance, then when it warms up, the resitance is greatly increased, causing a bad startup.

Heat is basicaly bad for anything but us humans-lol

KiltedBanshees93GT · 10-09-2003, 09:49 AM

Mine started doing that recently, and sure enough the dang thing just died. (granted the death was due to mechanical falure,)
Replace it, you'll feel much better,lol

Kitty67 · 12-07-2003, 08:14 PM

Hate to drag this back up but....

I have (finally) managed to get the vehicle off the road long enough to have the starter motor removed.

It has been re-worked, bushes and armiture(sp)...it is a bit better but is still extremely slow on the crank one moment, then better the next?! after it gets hot

Would heat soak still be the train of thought?
Should I be looking somewhere else?

Any help most welcome...it's getting summertime hot here and nothing is worse than sitting in your hot vehicle waiting for it to get its' act together!

Cheers!

KiltedBanshees93GT · 12-08-2003, 06:36 AM

Am I correct in assuming that it still does it only when the car is already hot?
If so, heat soak still sounds like the culprit, especially if partially refurbishing the old starter helped but did not cure the problem. If it was me, I would just buy a new starter, and keep the old one as a backup.
*left field*did you ever check the timing/compression?

J

10-06-2003, 02:32 PM	#1
Kitty67 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 10	Battery/Starter problem? I have a problem starting my 67. She has a fairly new battery and good leads (connections appear fine). When cold it starts fine, the problem occurs after running for a while (hot) and turning off and then on again. Seems there is only one turn of the crank and it sounds like the battery is dead....leave it for about 3 mins and the engine turns fast and fires instantly. Can anyone offer any advice about this....it's driving me nuts! Could it be the solenoid (sp?) or starter motor? Any replies greatfully recieved

10-06-2003, 07:57 PM	#3
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	Heat soak? I agree with mustangII460. I think what's happening is that the older starter is getting "heat soaked". This happens even with new starters, but they are in good enough shape that the car still cranks. An older,weaker, starter will sometimes barely even crank when very hot. This is a sign that the starter is failing. Being a cheap skate, I buy a rebuilt one from AutoZone with a life time warranty that usually lasts 2-3 years. They've replaced about 2 or 3 so far since 1995. I just keep bringing them back and make them give me a new one (keep the sales slip). BTW, most auto supply stores will test your starter for you if you bring it in. Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe Last edited by Rev; 10-06-2003 at 10:48 PM..

10-06-2003, 07:59 PM	#4
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	did the starting problem occur after messing with the vehicle's timing? Have you checked it lately? Ryan __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

10-06-2003, 10:44 PM	#5
Kitty67 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 10	Cheers:) No Ryan, the timing hasn't been touched (or checked), will get onto it tho. I have never heard of 'heat soak' but that describes what is happening, so I'll start there... Cheers guys, thanks for the replies

10-06-2003, 10:51 PM	#6
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	Too much initial advance or high compression It's true that too much initial advance or high compression will make a car hard to crank. Not usually heat related though. Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe

10-06-2003, 04:35 PM	#2
mustangII460 Factoy Five Roadster Join Date: May 2000 Location: Sevier Co,Tennessee Posts: 1,681	Load test your battery but I suspect it's your starter. Common problem with the older ones. Get a NEW one not rebuilt.

10-07-2003, 05:18 AM	#7
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	the times I have seen it have not been heat related in regards to the climate, but when the engine was warmed up. These guys are probably right on the "heat soak" problem, since you have not messed with the timing.....seems unlikely it would have changed, but something to think about. Never experienced the "heat soak", but glad I know about it now, sure it will happen to me sooner or later. Ryan __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

10-07-2003, 12:44 PM	#8
Kisner Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 290	Have same problem with my 68. Starts perfect when cold but if I drive it for an extended length of time, cut it off, and immediately try to re-start it, it has a hard time. After the starter cools, it cranks with no problem. Was also told this was a common problem with the older Mustangs.

10-07-2003, 05:38 PM	#9
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	The old starter was so big and heavy on mine, that I changed it before I had problems. It was so big, made it a task to get out with the full length headers. I replaced it with a ford mini starter from the junk yard...now it spins the engine over with great ease and I have lots of room near the headers. __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

10-08-2003, 04:16 AM	#10
mustangman65_79 My poor 79 RIP Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Suisun City, Posts: 2,320	Heat soak is a common starter problem. Chevy's have it more then us because of their starter soleniod is on the starter. Basicaly, Elictricity has more resitance when something is warm, then cold. So if your starter is going out and already has high resitance, then when it warms up, the resitance is greatly increased, causing a bad startup. Heat is basicaly bad for anything but us humans-lol __________________ '84 mustang GT turbo '85 LTD '89 Camaro Irocz z28 '94 Lightning '96 Trans am

10-09-2003, 09:49 AM	#11
KiltedBanshees93GT Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Pigeon Forge Tn Posts: 611	Mine started doing that recently, and sure enough the dang thing just died. (granted the death was due to mechanical falure,) Replace it, you'll feel much better,lol __________________ ____________ '66 Mustang Coupe- AKA "Lenore" on disability for a (long) bit '93 GT Mostly stock AKA "Fawkes" Rice Haters Club Member #239 "I find your lack of faith...disturbing." "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." H. L. Mencken

12-07-2003, 08:14 PM	#12
Kitty67 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 10	Hate to drag this back up but.... I have (finally) managed to get the vehicle off the road long enough to have the starter motor removed. It has been re-worked, bushes and armiture(sp)...it is a bit better but is still extremely slow on the crank one moment, then better the next?! after it gets hot Would heat soak still be the train of thought? Should I be looking somewhere else? Any help most welcome...it's getting summertime hot here and nothing is worse than sitting in your hot vehicle waiting for it to get its' act together! Cheers!

12-08-2003, 06:36 AM	#13
KiltedBanshees93GT Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Pigeon Forge Tn Posts: 611	Am I correct in assuming that it still does it only when the car is already hot? If so, heat soak still sounds like the culprit, especially if partially refurbishing the old starter helped but did not cure the problem. If it was me, I would just buy a new starter, and keep the old one as a backup. left fielddid you ever check the timing/compression? J __________________ ____________ '66 Mustang Coupe- AKA "Lenore" on disability for a (long) bit '93 GT Mostly stock AKA "Fawkes" Rice Haters Club Member #239 "I find your lack of faith...disturbing." "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." H. L. Mencken

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