Building the bottom end

HuKares · 10-12-2002, 08:11 AM

I'm looking to build an new engine for the 'stang this winter and wanted to get some ideas on building the bottom end to handle what I want. The 'stang is a '66 with the original 289 although I have access to 302's and 5.0's also. I plan to build the engine naturally aspirated for now and then add a centrifigal supercharger to it later. After I add the supercharger, I'd lke to produce something like 500 to 600 hp. My shift rpm's would be about 6500 the way the rest of the car is set up.
My question is how I should build the bottom end for this. Would I be able to use a stock crank? What rods are enough?(I have access to some 5.09 cat h-beam rods for cheap) and etc.? Would I be better off going with a stroker ( I drive the car often so I doubt I want a 347 with the oil control and wear problems)? Thanks for any help,
-Brian

jim_howard_pdx · 10-13-2002, 12:27 PM

I would select a newer 302 block for your buildup. You are looking for the hydralic roller cam set up. I would go a stroker kit, either 330 or 347 cubic inches. With the street 347 strokers, the rods are shortened over the race 347 units so the oil control is very good.

I would contact Vortec and have them recommend the cam grind to use should you decide to supercharge in the future. Use a
Vortec because it is a centrifugal supercharger that delivers extra boost as your RPM climbs. You actually get better gas mileage driving around town, but when you mash the pedal you NEED NASA training.

Go a high lift, low duration cam. But make sure you tell the stroker kit company and Vortec what you want to accomplish so they get the compression ratio and the cam right for the car.

Good Luck!

I am running a 30 over 351 Windsor with Trick Flow Heads and I get about 400 HP. This car is really fun. A Vortec would put me at 575 HP. CRAZY.

Ron1 · 10-13-2002, 11:46 PM

With a 331 or 347 stroker and the right combination heads, intake, carb and cam, there is no reason you could not reach your goal without the S/C. I would do some investigating and talk to the cam companies, talk to some of your local engine builders and see what they think.
You might contact Dave at www.jdsperformance.com and see what he says. Give them your 500 HP.
Do keep in mind that the 66 will need a lot of other work to keep that HP in check. Subframes, some sort of traction set-up like SSM or www.calvertracing.com
I drove my 65 coupe everywhere with just a 306 CI motor, fairly mild cam and a 150 shot of N2O. With the SSM lift bars, on an 8 inch slick it went 12.04 at 118. Of course the 8 inch rear exploded one weekend, the T5 got real loose, but it ran great.

Ron

thunderbolt · 10-14-2002, 10:10 PM

Here are some of my thoughts, but remeber what you paid for them.
88 or later 5.0 blocks are supposed to be stronger than the pre 88 blocks. I am not sure about the crank, I would ask a good machine shop, but definately good rods and forged pistons of course. I would also get a cap girdle (I can't remember if that is the right name or not) for the main bearing caps to strengthen them up. I would also put in a windage tray and crank scraper. Big deep sump oil pan.
Most of this you probably already know or have planned already but that is where would start if it were me.
Sounds fun.

Ron1 · 10-14-2002, 10:19 PM

It's a main girdle support....find an example here http://www.flatlanderracing.com/prob...ergirdles.html
Also is you run a windage tray there is no need for a crank scraper. They accomplish the same thing. Removing excess oil from the rotating assembly which robs HP.

Ron

Rev · 10-15-2002, 05:59 PM

Get forged pistons along with everything else. If anyone mentioned that, forgive me as I just missed it.

Rev

hobgoblin351 · 10-20-2002, 12:08 PM

Hey, everyone else pretty much covered all I was going to say. But I wiil add this, You said you wanted to have shift points up around 6500rpm. Talk to the supercharger people to much sure they can handle that RPM. With advancements in superchargers they probably can. But, as far as I can remember the older ones lost effiency up around 6000rpm mostly due to heat, so you might want to think about an intercooler. Oh and think about how your going to put all that power to the ground. Sub frame connectore and a good ladder bar or 4-link. What kind of tires are you running. If you get good traction the front is going to get air son be careful at first. If you dont launch strait, it will be hard to steer with you front off the ground!!

DRASTiK · 10-20-2002, 11:08 PM

ARP rod bolts or studs

Ron1 · 10-20-2002, 11:36 PM

Hobgob....there are 2 very simple rules to follow when you "get air". Both are real simple. 1. Don't lift and 2. don't steer.
HuKares...I forgot to ask you as well...budget for the motor, keeping in mind the increases in power will require you to upgrade the trans, chassis and rear end, and the faster you run the more safety equipment the car will have to have.

Ron

10-12-2002, 08:11 AM	#1
HuKares Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 2	Building the bottom end I'm looking to build an new engine for the 'stang this winter and wanted to get some ideas on building the bottom end to handle what I want. The 'stang is a '66 with the original 289 although I have access to 302's and 5.0's also. I plan to build the engine naturally aspirated for now and then add a centrifigal supercharger to it later. After I add the supercharger, I'd lke to produce something like 500 to 600 hp. My shift rpm's would be about 6500 the way the rest of the car is set up. My question is how I should build the bottom end for this. Would I be able to use a stock crank? What rods are enough?(I have access to some 5.09 cat h-beam rods for cheap) and etc.? Would I be better off going with a stroker ( I drive the car often so I doubt I want a 347 with the oil control and wear problems)? Thanks for any help, -Brian __________________ '66 'Stang coupe 289(325HP), AOD, 4.62 gears '67 'Stang fastback 390

10-13-2002, 12:27 PM	#2
jim_howard_pdx Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 247	I would select a newer 302 block for your buildup. You are looking for the hydralic roller cam set up. I would go a stroker kit, either 330 or 347 cubic inches. With the street 347 strokers, the rods are shortened over the race 347 units so the oil control is very good. I would contact Vortec and have them recommend the cam grind to use should you decide to supercharge in the future. Use a Vortec because it is a centrifugal supercharger that delivers extra boost as your RPM climbs. You actually get better gas mileage driving around town, but when you mash the pedal you NEED NASA training. Go a high lift, low duration cam. But make sure you tell the stroker kit company and Vortec what you want to accomplish so they get the compression ratio and the cam right for the car. Good Luck! I am running a 30 over 351 Windsor with Trick Flow Heads and I get about 400 HP. This car is really fun. A Vortec would put me at 575 HP. CRAZY. __________________ 1966 Customized for daily street and highway domination. 358 Windsor running 425 HP C-4 Auto and 3.25 Posi

10-15-2002, 05:59 PM	#6
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	Forged pistons Get forged pistons along with everything else. If anyone mentioned that, forgive me as I just missed it. Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe

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10-13-2002, 11:46 PM	#3
Ron1 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Vancouver, WA USA Posts: 439	With a 331 or 347 stroker and the right combination heads, intake, carb and cam, there is no reason you could not reach your goal without the S/C. I would do some investigating and talk to the cam companies, talk to some of your local engine builders and see what they think. You might contact Dave at www.jdsperformance.com and see what he says. Give them your 500 HP. Do keep in mind that the 66 will need a lot of other work to keep that HP in check. Subframes, some sort of traction set-up like SSM or www.calvertracing.com I drove my 65 coupe everywhere with just a 306 CI motor, fairly mild cam and a 150 shot of N2O. With the SSM lift bars, on an 8 inch slick it went 12.04 at 118. Of course the 8 inch rear exploded one weekend, the T5 got real loose, but it ran great. Ron

10-14-2002, 10:10 PM	#4
thunderbolt Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 380	Here are some of my thoughts, but remeber what you paid for them. 88 or later 5.0 blocks are supposed to be stronger than the pre 88 blocks. I am not sure about the crank, I would ask a good machine shop, but definately good rods and forged pistons of course. I would also get a cap girdle (I can't remember if that is the right name or not) for the main bearing caps to strengthen them up. I would also put in a windage tray and crank scraper. Big deep sump oil pan. Most of this you probably already know or have planned already but that is where would start if it were me. Sounds fun.

10-14-2002, 10:19 PM	#5
Ron1 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Vancouver, WA USA Posts: 439	It's a main girdle support....find an example here http://www.flatlanderracing.com/prob...ergirdles.html Also is you run a windage tray there is no need for a crank scraper. They accomplish the same thing. Removing excess oil from the rotating assembly which robs HP. Ron

10-20-2002, 12:08 PM	#7
hobgoblin351 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 245	Hey, everyone else pretty much covered all I was going to say. But I wiil add this, You said you wanted to have shift points up around 6500rpm. Talk to the supercharger people to much sure they can handle that RPM. With advancements in superchargers they probably can. But, as far as I can remember the older ones lost effiency up around 6000rpm mostly due to heat, so you might want to think about an intercooler. Oh and think about how your going to put all that power to the ground. Sub frame connectore and a good ladder bar or 4-link. What kind of tires are you running. If you get good traction the front is going to get air son be careful at first. If you dont launch strait, it will be hard to steer with you front off the ground!!

10-20-2002, 11:08 PM	#8
DRASTiK Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Yuma, AZ Posts: 536	ARP rod bolts or studs

10-20-2002, 11:36 PM	#9
Ron1 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Vancouver, WA USA Posts: 439	Hobgob....there are 2 very simple rules to follow when you "get air". Both are real simple. 1. Don't lift and 2. don't steer. HuKares...I forgot to ask you as well...budget for the motor, keeping in mind the increases in power will require you to upgrade the trans, chassis and rear end, and the faster you run the more safety equipment the car will have to have. Ron