Engine rebuilding advice

starrparker · 08-23-2001, 06:10 PM

I've got a 1965 coupe that had a 289 in it. I've rebuilt the engine twice over the past 20 years, but always only with stock parts (std Cam, lifters, etc...). It's got a 302 block because I had to replace the original block, as it was cracked, and couldn't find another 289 block at the time. What I want to know is this: what options do I have and what are the pros and cons if I want to rebuild it to get good horsepower and reasonably smooth running without outrageous cost? I already have a Holley 4BBL Carb that I was going to use (don't remember the model off-hand, but I can check). Which intake manifold should I get? Should I change to other-than-stock heads? Should I use headers, and if so what brand? Should I get an off-standard Cam? Will I need a higher performance water pump? Basically all the standard questions for building a decent but affordable engine. Thanks for any advice.

------------------
Starr Parker, III
starrparker3@hotmail.com

Ron1 · 08-23-2001, 10:47 PM

If I was in your shoes I would look at the Edelbrock ( www.edelbrock.com )performance packages. They include the cam, intake, heads, and carb. They are proven combinations that work well. Look at the Performer and Performer RPM...following the basic engine buildup then look at headers, ignition, cooling, fuel delivery, and maybe a Dr.gas "X" pipe with a 2 1/2 inch exhaust. Lots of airflow thru the motor.
Pretty basic stuff..youre in Bellevue I see...Just a bit south of you in Vancouver, WA

Ron

66fastback · 08-24-2001, 12:38 PM

You can follow the Edelbrock route for sure, and be secure in the knowledge that the parts match and are made to work together....or you can try another classic combination for small block Fords....

1) Dual plane high-rise intake such as the Edelbrock Performer or Weiand Stealth.

2) Small cam, such as a Comp cams 260H or 268H.

3) Dual exhaust (with headers preferably--think Hooker or Hedman), even 2" pipes are a big boost over single exhaust...and provide good off the line torque.

4) When you think that you've got the combination well tuned, go buy yourself some 3.55 rear gears.....it will make as big a difference as all the other parts put together.

This combination is limited by the stock heads of course, but can still provide a great improvement for the $$$ spent. Most people new to modifications should probably leave the stock heads on until they have a good understanding of just how many changes new heads can create (new rocker arms, valve springs, pushrods, valve covers, compression ratio, piston to valve clearances, etc.)

------------------
66 GT Fastback,fuel injected 5.0, 5-speed, cable clutch, JBA's and duals, 3.40 gears and handling mods...just call me "Doc"

starrparker · 08-24-2001, 01:01 PM

Thanks Ron and 66Fastback -

That's some good advice and I'll probably do a combination of what you're saying. I do want to use the Holley 600CFM carb I already have and I would be smart cost-wise to keep the stock heads for now - just replace the valve springs probably. I'm aware of what new heads would entail for the most part, but don't want that cost right now. I think I'm going to go with a new manifold, new cam/lifter kit (probably the matched Edelbrock combination). Then add headers and better cooling (water pump and radiator).

That plus the machine shop work should keep it in the neighborhood of $1000-2000 I figure. Does that sound right to you? (email off-line if you like).

This is a good board. I appreciate the heads up and continue to welcome anyone else's advice on this subject. I'll definitely stay a member - good use of the technology. Thanks.

Starr

Ron1 · 08-24-2001, 07:45 PM

The problem is the cost of reworking the old heads. I went thru the same thing not to long ago, and had the old heads reworked. Springs, seats, valves to go with the new seats...it ended up costing $750.00 on a $500.00 quote. (always does BTW). Should have saved up another $200.00 and gone aftermarket, which I eventually did. it just took longer.

Ron

macx · 08-24-2001, 11:30 PM

For the cost of rebuilding your existing heads even just to stock, you can get a set of new Ford cast iron GT-40P heads - off the newer 5.0 explorer engines. Either good used junkyard, or you can get them new very reasonably - check ads in Ford & mustang mags. Just as reliable as they are stock (and new, not rebuilt) and a significant power boost without going radical or killing your daily drivebility.

Dark Knight · 08-25-2001, 05:02 PM

instead of the P head, you might look for a set of used iron GT-40's or maybe a set of world products iron heads http://www.racesearch.com/CGImp/mhp?...=sbpn&cat=3142

under $800 for a new set of world irons.. might be worth it...

the reason I say them instad of the GT-40P's is because you arent as limited on headers for the older car.... ;-)

------------------
84 convt,'95 302,AFR's, performer
3.55's, underdrives BBK shorties
stock cam, 1.7's
13.85@102.5
and a '68 stang that WAS nasty ;-)

Rev · 08-26-2001, 06:21 PM

I think that my 351W heads, pocket ported,smoothed chambers, milled, and gasket matched with new valves with a 3 angle valve job cost under $500 including the cost of the cores.

They flow pretty well I think on a mild 302. Now I want Twisted Wedge and more top end power, but I believe I'm looking at $1800 after everything I need to do it.

Rev

------------------
'66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph
1/4 mi.

08-23-2001, 06:10 PM	#1
starrparker Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Bellevue, WA, USA Posts: 2	Engine rebuilding advice I've got a 1965 coupe that had a 289 in it. I've rebuilt the engine twice over the past 20 years, but always only with stock parts (std Cam, lifters, etc...). It's got a 302 block because I had to replace the original block, as it was cracked, and couldn't find another 289 block at the time. What I want to know is this: what options do I have and what are the pros and cons if I want to rebuild it to get good horsepower and reasonably smooth running without outrageous cost? I already have a Holley 4BBL Carb that I was going to use (don't remember the model off-hand, but I can check). Which intake manifold should I get? Should I change to other-than-stock heads? Should I use headers, and if so what brand? Should I get an off-standard Cam? Will I need a higher performance water pump? Basically all the standard questions for building a decent but affordable engine. Thanks for any advice. ------------------ Starr Parker, III starrparker3@hotmail.com

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08-23-2001, 10:47 PM	#2
Ron1 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Vancouver, WA USA Posts: 439	If I was in your shoes I would look at the Edelbrock ( www.edelbrock.com )performance packages. They include the cam, intake, heads, and carb. They are proven combinations that work well. Look at the Performer and Performer RPM...following the basic engine buildup then look at headers, ignition, cooling, fuel delivery, and maybe a Dr.gas "X" pipe with a 2 1/2 inch exhaust. Lots of airflow thru the motor. Pretty basic stuff..youre in Bellevue I see...Just a bit south of you in Vancouver, WA Ron

08-24-2001, 12:38 PM	#3
66fastback Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 208	You can follow the Edelbrock route for sure, and be secure in the knowledge that the parts match and are made to work together....or you can try another classic combination for small block Fords.... 1) Dual plane high-rise intake such as the Edelbrock Performer or Weiand Stealth. 2) Small cam, such as a Comp cams 260H or 268H. 3) Dual exhaust (with headers preferably--think Hooker or Hedman), even 2" pipes are a big boost over single exhaust...and provide good off the line torque. 4) When you think that you've got the combination well tuned, go buy yourself some 3.55 rear gears.....it will make as big a difference as all the other parts put together. This combination is limited by the stock heads of course, but can still provide a great improvement for the $$$ spent. Most people new to modifications should probably leave the stock heads on until they have a good understanding of just how many changes new heads can create (new rocker arms, valve springs, pushrods, valve covers, compression ratio, piston to valve clearances, etc.) ------------------ 66 GT Fastback,fuel injected 5.0, 5-speed, cable clutch, JBA's and duals, 3.40 gears and handling mods...just call me "Doc"

08-24-2001, 01:01 PM	#4
starrparker Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Bellevue, WA, USA Posts: 2	Thanks Ron and 66Fastback - That's some good advice and I'll probably do a combination of what you're saying. I do want to use the Holley 600CFM carb I already have and I would be smart cost-wise to keep the stock heads for now - just replace the valve springs probably. I'm aware of what new heads would entail for the most part, but don't want that cost right now. I think I'm going to go with a new manifold, new cam/lifter kit (probably the matched Edelbrock combination). Then add headers and better cooling (water pump and radiator). That plus the machine shop work should keep it in the neighborhood of $1000-2000 I figure. Does that sound right to you? (email off-line if you like). This is a good board. I appreciate the heads up and continue to welcome anyone else's advice on this subject. I'll definitely stay a member - good use of the technology. Thanks. Starr

08-24-2001, 07:45 PM	#5
Ron1 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Vancouver, WA USA Posts: 439	The problem is the cost of reworking the old heads. I went thru the same thing not to long ago, and had the old heads reworked. Springs, seats, valves to go with the new seats...it ended up costing $750.00 on a $500.00 quote. (always does BTW). Should have saved up another $200.00 and gone aftermarket, which I eventually did. it just took longer. Ron

08-24-2001, 11:30 PM	#6
macx Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Gordonville MO USA Posts: 448	For the cost of rebuilding your existing heads even just to stock, you can get a set of new Ford cast iron GT-40P heads - off the newer 5.0 explorer engines. Either good used junkyard, or you can get them new very reasonably - check ads in Ford & mustang mags. Just as reliable as they are stock (and new, not rebuilt) and a significant power boost without going radical or killing your daily drivebility.

08-25-2001, 05:02 PM	#7
Dark Knight Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Az Posts: 854	instead of the P head, you might look for a set of used iron GT-40's or maybe a set of world products iron heads http://www.racesearch.com/CGImp/mhp?...=sbpn&cat=3142 under $800 for a new set of world irons.. might be worth it... the reason I say them instad of the GT-40P's is because you arent as limited on headers for the older car.... ;-) ------------------ 84 convt,'95 302,AFR's, performer 3.55's, underdrives BBK shorties stock cam, 1.7's 13.85@102.5 and a '68 stang that WAS nasty ;-)

08-26-2001, 06:21 PM	#8
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	I think that my 351W heads, pocket ported,smoothed chambers, milled, and gasket matched with new valves with a 3 angle valve job cost under $500 including the cost of the cores. They flow pretty well I think on a mild 302. Now I want Twisted Wedge and more top end power, but I believe I'm looking at $1800 after everything I need to do it. Rev ------------------ '66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph 1/4 mi.