Head and intake questions and ideas

bad85gt · 01-05-2003, 08:41 PM

Ok, Im trying to figure out what I need to do to make my combo right. Id like to leave my short block alone, which is a .030 over 302 with dome top k.b. silvo lites making around 10.7:1 and a .544 intake and exhaust comp cam. Ive got a set of gasket matched hi port heads with 2.02 1.60s and a victor jr with a 650 holley on top. My best time on this motor was a 13.80 at 102 mph. What me and a friend are thinking thats happening is the motor flows so good that the cylinders arent filling with air. Does anyone have a suggestion of a way to help this set up, or is it useless? If so, what Heads and intake should I be running? Also another question I have is with the Holley Pro-jection kit for sb fords, if I have a 650 carb, and those have a 670 cfm t.b., why do they only support 275 hp? Only wonder because Ive considered switching to an aftermarket f.i., whats everyones opinions on this? Ultamately my goal is mid-hi 12s on the motor and a mid 11 on about a 100 shot, let me know what you think! Thanks alot!
Justin

HotRoddin · 01-05-2003, 09:14 PM

Right off the get go it sounds at least boarderline under carburated. Is it stock rod length ? Do you have the actual piston part numbers? I have silvolite's parts list ... reason i ask that is because i was building a 10:1 motor with keith blacks, and somebody that put the kit together (not from silvolite) did some bad math. My engine would have actually been 8.5:1 had i not looked at their parts list and did my own math, which caught the error before the engine went together.
What do you mean by high port heads ? Give me a brand and a combustion chamber size. What is the cam part number? or at least the rest of the specs, and do you have it set straight up or what? What does your veh weigh ? What gear ratio and tire size are you using ? Where is the timing set ? What are your shift points?
Unless this is a big heavy car, or you're shift points or gears are keeping you way out of your power curve, you should be going quicker than that.

bad85gt · 01-05-2003, 09:33 PM

Stock rods, I think the pistons are 116's. The hi port heads are the Trick Flow hi ports, they have a raised exhaust port for flow reasons (flow #'s Im not sure of right now) They are a 62cc head right now. As for cam part #, not for sure but its a 224 int 230 exh duration at 0.050 and I installed the cam straight up, weight wise, Ill have to weigh it for sure, but Id guess around 3300? Its a 85 gt ttop car. Full interior and what not, it has 3.73 gears and Im either running on 275/40/17 bfg drag radials or 26x10x15 Et Drags, which I have better times on my drag radials because the car bogs bad on the slicks. Usually I shift around 6500, at about 6800-6900 it starts to act like its floating the valves, but it doesnt feel like its making power untill around 3000 up. Only thing Ive found so far is tfs says to use a 6.750" push rod, and Im running stock length (not sure how long they are), could that be hurting me?? Oh, and with the 650 on it, Ive got it tuned about right, anything bigger and it runs way too rich no matter how I jet it.

BLACK85GT · 01-05-2003, 10:44 PM

Yeah, definetly something wrong. You should be running quicker with those heads and gears. Mine ran a 13.50 at 101.5 and i only had re worked stock heads, and get this: the stock 2:73 gears on the old 7.5 rear end. I have the Performer RPM intake with holley 600 carb. You should be hitting high to mid 12's. Could be pushrod length maybe not opening valves enough to make use of the heads?

bad85gt · 01-05-2003, 10:53 PM

Ive got a set of push rods from a non roller motor Im going to measure, if they are to tfs' spec Im going to stick them in, not sure how much thats hurting me, other than wore my valve guides out! But yeah, a guy here in town has a car about like mine but has police lights newer front clip and a cage with a 306 like mine, only he has a x303 and gasket matched e7's and hes going mid 12s motor and mid 11s on a 100 shot, so something is screwy

HotRoddin · 01-05-2003, 11:21 PM

Well if your pistons are KB116's and you have 62 cc chambers and assuming a .039 gasket thickness and stock rods, my math says 10.07:1 not 10.7:1 but that still shouldn't affect you that much ?
I put some of your basic stuff in Desktop Dyno and it spits back 425 HP at 6000 RPM and 416 ft lbs at 4500 ... thats not by any means dead on to what you actually have of course but its close enough to tell me you should be faster than 13.80's
I'm puzzled about you bogging coming out too ? Maybe you need to be a little more agressive on your launches? or maybe a lot more

Do you have any 60 foot times ?

bad85gt · 01-05-2003, 11:36 PM

My best 60s....
26x10 Et Street 1.8
26x10 Et Drags 2.2
275/40/17 BFG Drag Radials 2.0

Now then, I talked to a guy off hardcore 5.0 a bit ago. On my push rods, the ones trick flow says to use with my heads are about a 1/4" longer approx. thats .250", subtract that off my .544 lift cam and Ive got didly squat! Less than a stock 5.0 cam! Which if you listen to my car sit and idle, it sounds like it has something more like a stock cam than what I really have. So with this info, Im going to check push rod length tomorrow, if I dont have the 6.750" length they say, Im going to stick them in and try that, that thing may really kick, that could be the little kink thats held me back for a year!

HotRoddin · 01-06-2003, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bad85gt
subtract that off my .544 lift cam and Ive got didly squat! Less than a stock 5.0 cam! Which if you listen to my car sit and idle, it sounds like it has something more like a stock cam than what I really have. So with this info, Im going to check push rod length tomorrow, if I dont have the 6.750" length they say, Im going to stick them in and try that, that thing may really kick, that could be the little kink thats held me back for a year!

Nope .... the push rod length has nothing to do with lift unless you have non adjustable rocker arms and you have a ton of clearence that you shouldn't have ? It has to do with rocker geometry (where the rocker tip rides on the valve tip and at what angle) .... If the cam lobe moves a push rod a half inch on one end, it will move a half inch on the other end, reguardless of whether its 3 inches long or 3 miles long. All the push rod does is transfer the movement from the cam to the rocker arm.

bad85gt · 01-06-2003, 04:25 PM

Ok, lets say scratch everything, take the heads out of the picture, lets say Im buying new heads for the set up I have now, what should I buy?

Dark Knight · 01-07-2003, 12:31 PM

I'd swap the intake for a performer RPM or a stealth... I run almost 103 with the stock cam, 1.7 rockers and a plain old performer that I port matched.. and out of the box AFR's...105+ air temp too... 3400# car... 600 holley..

the carb should be fine... but the vic.jr really needs more cubes or high RPM..

88workcar · 01-08-2003, 06:09 AM

Is this a stick car or an auto?

lx mike · 01-08-2003, 07:06 AM

where are you located at?? if you at a high altitude your time might not be as bad as you think. also what tranny? how do you leave the line??

01-05-2003, 08:41 PM	#1
bad85gt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In front of this thing Posts: 34	Head and intake questions and ideas Ok, Im trying to figure out what I need to do to make my combo right. Id like to leave my short block alone, which is a .030 over 302 with dome top k.b. silvo lites making around 10.7:1 and a .544 intake and exhaust comp cam. Ive got a set of gasket matched hi port heads with 2.02 1.60s and a victor jr with a 650 holley on top. My best time on this motor was a 13.80 at 102 mph. What me and a friend are thinking thats happening is the motor flows so good that the cylinders arent filling with air. Does anyone have a suggestion of a way to help this set up, or is it useless? If so, what Heads and intake should I be running? Also another question I have is with the Holley Pro-jection kit for sb fords, if I have a 650 carb, and those have a 670 cfm t.b., why do they only support 275 hp? Only wonder because Ive considered switching to an aftermarket f.i., whats everyones opinions on this? Ultamately my goal is mid-hi 12s on the motor and a mid 11 on about a 100 shot, let me know what you think! Thanks alot! Justin

01-05-2003, 10:44 PM	#4
BLACK85GT Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tampa,FLORIDA Posts: 340	Yeah, definetly something wrong. You should be running quicker with those heads and gears. Mine ran a 13.50 at 101.5 and i only had re worked stock heads, and get this: the stock 2:73 gears on the old 7.5 rear end. I have the Performer RPM intake with holley 600 carb. You should be hitting high to mid 12's. Could be pushrod length maybe not opening valves enough to make use of the heads? __________________ 5.0, Holley heads, 1.7 Scorp Rockers, Stealth intake, Holley 600 carb, Holley Mech. Fuel pump, MSD 6Digital, MSD distributor, Hotchkis upper/lower rear control arms, FMS B Springs, 3:73 (8.8) rear. Production # 9,377

01-07-2003, 12:31 PM	#10
Dark Knight Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Az Posts: 854	I'd swap the intake for a performer RPM or a stealth... I run almost 103 with the stock cam, 1.7 rockers and a plain old performer that I port matched.. and out of the box AFR's...105+ air temp too... 3400# car... 600 holley.. the carb should be fine... but the vic.jr really needs more cubes or high RPM.. __________________ 84 convt,roller 302,AFR's, performer 3.55's, underdrives BBK shorties stock cam, 1.7's 13.58@102.84 and a '68 stang .. project 8 sec street car... 557 big block + N20 :-) http://members.cox.net/darkknight302/68nwrear.jpg

01-08-2003, 06:09 AM	#11
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	Is this a stick car or an auto? __________________ 88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid I'm somewhere in tthe middle.

01-08-2003, 07:06 AM	#12
lx mike Undescribable Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Ft Myers Fla Posts: 1,539	where are you located at?? if you at a high altitude your time might not be as bad as you think. also what tranny? how do you leave the line?? __________________ Rice Haters Club Member #101

01-05-2003, 09:14 PM	#2
HotRoddin cranky old man Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Longview Texas Posts: 683	Right off the get go it sounds at least boarderline under carburated. Is it stock rod length ? Do you have the actual piston part numbers? I have silvolite's parts list ... reason i ask that is because i was building a 10:1 motor with keith blacks, and somebody that put the kit together (not from silvolite) did some bad math. My engine would have actually been 8.5:1 had i not looked at their parts list and did my own math, which caught the error before the engine went together. What do you mean by high port heads ? Give me a brand and a combustion chamber size. What is the cam part number? or at least the rest of the specs, and do you have it set straight up or what? What does your veh weigh ? What gear ratio and tire size are you using ? Where is the timing set ? What are your shift points? Unless this is a big heavy car, or you're shift points or gears are keeping you way out of your power curve, you should be going quicker than that.

01-05-2003, 09:33 PM	#3
bad85gt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In front of this thing Posts: 34	Stock rods, I think the pistons are 116's. The hi port heads are the Trick Flow hi ports, they have a raised exhaust port for flow reasons (flow #'s Im not sure of right now) They are a 62cc head right now. As for cam part #, not for sure but its a 224 int 230 exh duration at 0.050 and I installed the cam straight up, weight wise, Ill have to weigh it for sure, but Id guess around 3300? Its a 85 gt ttop car. Full interior and what not, it has 3.73 gears and Im either running on 275/40/17 bfg drag radials or 26x10x15 Et Drags, which I have better times on my drag radials because the car bogs bad on the slicks. Usually I shift around 6500, at about 6800-6900 it starts to act like its floating the valves, but it doesnt feel like its making power untill around 3000 up. Only thing Ive found so far is tfs says to use a 6.750" push rod, and Im running stock length (not sure how long they are), could that be hurting me?? Oh, and with the 650 on it, Ive got it tuned about right, anything bigger and it runs way too rich no matter how I jet it.

01-05-2003, 10:53 PM	#5
bad85gt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In front of this thing Posts: 34	Ive got a set of push rods from a non roller motor Im going to measure, if they are to tfs' spec Im going to stick them in, not sure how much thats hurting me, other than wore my valve guides out! But yeah, a guy here in town has a car about like mine but has police lights newer front clip and a cage with a 306 like mine, only he has a x303 and gasket matched e7's and hes going mid 12s motor and mid 11s on a 100 shot, so something is screwy

01-05-2003, 11:21 PM	#6
HotRoddin cranky old man Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Longview Texas Posts: 683	Well if your pistons are KB116's and you have 62 cc chambers and assuming a .039 gasket thickness and stock rods, my math says 10.07:1 not 10.7:1 but that still shouldn't affect you that much ? I put some of your basic stuff in Desktop Dyno and it spits back 425 HP at 6000 RPM and 416 ft lbs at 4500 ... thats not by any means dead on to what you actually have of course but its close enough to tell me you should be faster than 13.80's I'm puzzled about you bogging coming out too ? Maybe you need to be a little more agressive on your launches? or maybe a lot more Do you have any 60 foot times ?

01-05-2003, 11:36 PM	#7
bad85gt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In front of this thing Posts: 34	My best 60s.... 26x10 Et Street 1.8 26x10 Et Drags 2.2 275/40/17 BFG Drag Radials 2.0 Now then, I talked to a guy off hardcore 5.0 a bit ago. On my push rods, the ones trick flow says to use with my heads are about a 1/4" longer approx. thats .250", subtract that off my .544 lift cam and Ive got didly squat! Less than a stock 5.0 cam! Which if you listen to my car sit and idle, it sounds like it has something more like a stock cam than what I really have. So with this info, Im going to check push rod length tomorrow, if I dont have the 6.750" length they say, Im going to stick them in and try that, that thing may really kick, that could be the little kink thats held me back for a year!

01-06-2003, 04:25 PM	#9
bad85gt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In front of this thing Posts: 34	Ok, lets say scratch everything, take the heads out of the picture, lets say Im buying new heads for the set up I have now, what should I buy?

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