My NEW replacement Holley heads are different!

Rick 91GT · 04-19-2001, 11:21 PM

Well I was getting ready to fly cut the stock 89 forged pistons to accept my new Anderson grind, it has .544/.568 lift. My old Holley's had bad seals and guides so I sent them back, they have 2.02 x 1.60 valves. Well I have port matched and polished the new heads, and since the old vlaves just kissed the piston with the 509/.509 lift I new I would need to flycut the pistons, so we set up the cutter and went at it doing one piston. We then put clay on the piston, mounted the head on and one set of rockers with 2 solid lifters to check PTV. Well after we set them up and rotated we removed the head and the valve didn't even touch the clay! We thought WTF, so we added more clay and did it again, this time we got it to touch, I have .200 clearance on the exhaust and .180 on the intake. On the last set I had .139 and the vlaves hit. SO we are standing there trying to figure out how I have .200 clearance with this big cam installed then I noticed that the valves in my new replacment heads are recessed .140 from the surface still 61cc, which the other heads were not recessed. I am going to call Holley tomorrow to find out if something changed, I did get the heads a year before they were released so maybe I got a early model the first time that didn't work good and they switched. Well fly cutting wasn't a total loss as I did need the eyebrow a little bigger because of the 2.02's but boy was I surprised, just thought I share.

We went over the numbers a dozen times and it is defintly in these new heads. I am anxious to see what Holley has to say, these are the Avenger series 300-575.

------------------
Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon!

Killercanary · 04-20-2001, 11:09 AM

Rick- you posted this question at the perfect time for me. As you know my dad bought the Holley Systemax II kit about 2 months ago for his car. Well it has taken to now to get funds to complete the install, and when we checked the manual to see what RR's it called for, it has the part number for the FMS 1.6 PEDESTAL mount units listed, but his heads have studs in them. So I called Holley and after several hours someone called me back from their carb. division. He said he knew nothing of the kit, but I had him look up our part number of the kit to tell me what heads came with it- guess what, it is the 300-575 2.02" stud mount head! I told that the 2.02 valve wouldn't work with the stock pistons, so he said I'd have to call back yesterday. So I called and the tech guy told me that with their cam the 2.02" head will fit factory pistons?!?!? I'm really confused now, but I see the recess your talking about. I wasn't that thrilled with these heads when I looked inside the intake ports where the rocker stud came down through- there was a hunk of aluminum just hanging by a thread there where they had tapped the hole, as soon as I toughed it it fell off. The thing was the size of my finger nail, just think what might have happened if it had broken off and gone into the motor!!! I still don't know what to do with these heads, as I'd hate to tear the car apart, put the head on and then find out it won't work and then have to send them back and wait for a new set. Plus I think the 2.02" valve would be overkill on his motor, I think it would kill velocity and therefore low end torque. Anyone else think this. Anyone have a recommendation as to what to do, keep the head, send it back, what?

------------------
95 GT convt' 5 speed, 3.73's,FMS HD clutch, Pro 5.0 shifter, ASP alum. underdrive pulleys, Bassani offroad X pipe, 2 chmbr flowmasters, K&N w/o silencer, edelbrock performer intake, FRPP 65mm T-body, FRPP shorty headers, FRPP aluminum driveshaft.Hooker 4pt chrome car bar, Xenon/Wings West ground effects, custom interior
Best ET: 13.83
Best MPH: 98.55mph with Best 60': 1.91 on Nitto DR's
Homepage: <A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/pa2/killercanary" TARGET=_blank>http://www.angelfire

Skyman · 04-20-2001, 01:29 PM

I really dont know... but as for the 2.02" valve, thats what I have, and I have TONS of lowend. No complaints.

Sky

------------------
-1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, headers and 3chamber flows.
12.55@107mph
Going for 11's on 87 octane with A/C and 20+MPG!!!

Rick 91GT · 04-20-2001, 09:02 PM

Well I was on the phone with Holley today for about 25mins, they heads I received are correct 300-575 2.02 x 1.60 vlaves 17 degrees. The only thing the guy could come up with was maybe the last set of heads I received wer the 300-579 stamped wrong these are 2.02 x 1.60 20 degree heads. The 17 degree heads will put the valve in a differnet positon with the piston so that is why there is high clearances. After fly cutting I have .315 on the exhaust and .230 on the intake, plenty of clearance with my Anderson beast. The fly cutting also gave me a little more clearance on the outside edges of the eyebrow for extra insurance.

Sorry to hear your heads look bad they are AFR assembled per conversations with Ed Curtis. Ed told me he would pick the heads over the E'brocks, TFS, Windsor or any FMS heads, but he still favored the AFR's. I would say keep them they are a good head. I run the Crane Blazer 1.6 rr and they are nice pieces $200 from Jegs or Scummit. According to Holley Tech these heads are the new standard head to come with the kit due to the great flow numbers they have and are good for 15+hp over the other heads. Mine looked great but I did have to port match them to the lower manifold, there was a 1/8 step on some, I cleaned up all the intake ports and fully polished the exhaust ports and chambers. I bought the 1262 and they work very well with the large ports of the Holley's. I really like my Holley heads I just wish I knew what I had last time around

. Well if your Dads are the same as mine they should work with stock pistons, I am running .544/.568 with 224/236 duration now and I have no problems at all. What am did he go with?

I got the long block built today, I'll drop it in tomorrow and get the rest of it together, then next week its tranny rebuild time and the gears/rear will have to wait till next month. My baby should be alive next weekend I can't wait, it has been so long...12 weeks!

------------------
Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon!

[This message has been edited by Rick 91GT (edited 04-20-2001).]

Killercanary · 04-21-2001, 10:06 PM

Rick- he is staying with the holley cam for now as funds are a little tight. He wants a Ed Curtis ground one, but after seeing how mine is going to take about 6 more weeks, he decided to hold off till next year and swap the cam. I went with the FTI cam, but like I said, Ed is having problems getting blank units, so it will be a while till I get it.

BTW- we recently installed my old 3.73's in my dad's 91 and swapped in an electric fan from a 94 tempo and a 130 amp alt from a 94 3.8 mustang. He went 13.6 at 98.9mph with a 1.89 60'. His car is still almost totally stock except for exhaust, pulleys, gears, subframe conn., and upper and lower control arms. I hope these heads work for him.

------------------
95 GT convt' 5 speed, 3.73's,FMS HD clutch, Pro 5.0 shifter, ASP alum. underdrive pulleys, Bassani offroad X pipe, 2 chmbr flowmasters, K&N w/o silencer, edelbrock performer intake, FRPP 65mm T-body, FRPP shorty headers, FRPP aluminum driveshaft.Hooker 4pt chrome car bar, Xenon/Wings West ground effects, custom interior
Best ET: 13.83
Best MPH: 98.55mph with Best 60': 1.91 on Nitto DR's
Homepage: <A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/pa2/killercanary" TARGET=_blank>http://www.angelfire

Rick 91GT · 04-22-2001, 09:53 AM

They are great times for a almost stock stang with limited mods. I wanted a FTI cam but I knew Ed was having lead time problems that's why I went with a Anderson grind. I really like the Holley heads but I would mock it up and port match the heads to the lower intake they don't match very well

, I did that along with polishing the chambers and exhaust. I dropped the motor in last night now I need to finish bolting on the induction and little odds and ends, run the MSD and Elxtric fan and the motor will be al done, I am going to rebuild the tranny this week and should start it for the first time next weekend.Tell your dad to run a standard oil pump, the Holley cam pulls low vacuum but it did make awesome power, wait till you hear it. Good luck with the install, let me know if you need any help or questions. Did you get your AFR's yet?

------------------
Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon!

Moxie · 04-22-2001, 12:02 PM

The 'new' heads included with the Systemax II kit are from AFR. The 'old' heads that used to come with the kit were made by Brodix.

------------------
Moxie Racing

The Nitrous Oxide Information Site

Killercanary · 04-22-2001, 10:03 PM

Rick- Holley called us on friday and they are telling us that on a stock bottom end, the 2.02" valve head will work fine, but I'm still unsure. I did finally get my AFR heads. I now have the heads, 1.6 FMS pedestal rockers, 75mm Pro-M MAF, 24lb injectors, and I ordered the FTI cam and thin head gaskets from Ed. My dad just got his 30lb injectors and 76mm C&L meter, do the new C&L meters not use jumper wires anymore- do they use just the sampling tube? Also, do they sell the different sampling tubes for the meter, as i think we might buy the 19lb one to use till we can finish getting all the parts for his car.

Rick 91GT · 04-23-2001, 06:45 AM

Paul as far as I know C&L doesn't require a jumper wire atleast the direction on my 76mm don't say that. I got rid of my 75mm Pro-M for the C&L I hope I made the right choice, it does look nice with the alum discharge tube.

The only thing I had issues with with my old set of heads "which nobody at Holley really knows what they exactly were" was all my exhaust valves just kissed the pistons on the out side edge of the eyebrow. Now on the new heads I don't have that problem and I have plently on clearance with the Anderson grind which is pretty decent. I don't think he will have any problems, when are you guys doing the install? How so they AFR heads look?

------------------
Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon!

04-19-2001, 11:21 PM	#1
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	My NEW replacement Holley heads are different! Well I was getting ready to fly cut the stock 89 forged pistons to accept my new Anderson grind, it has .544/.568 lift. My old Holley's had bad seals and guides so I sent them back, they have 2.02 x 1.60 valves. Well I have port matched and polished the new heads, and since the old vlaves just kissed the piston with the 509/.509 lift I new I would need to flycut the pistons, so we set up the cutter and went at it doing one piston. We then put clay on the piston, mounted the head on and one set of rockers with 2 solid lifters to check PTV. Well after we set them up and rotated we removed the head and the valve didn't even touch the clay! We thought WTF, so we added more clay and did it again, this time we got it to touch, I have .200 clearance on the exhaust and .180 on the intake. On the last set I had .139 and the vlaves hit. SO we are standing there trying to figure out how I have .200 clearance with this big cam installed then I noticed that the valves in my new replacment heads are recessed .140 from the surface still 61cc, which the other heads were not recessed. I am going to call Holley tomorrow to find out if something changed, I did get the heads a year before they were released so maybe I got a early model the first time that didn't work good and they switched. Well fly cutting wasn't a total loss as I did need the eyebrow a little bigger because of the 2.02's but boy was I surprised, just thought I share. We went over the numbers a dozen times and it is defintly in these new heads. I am anxious to see what Holley has to say, these are the Avenger series 300-575. ------------------ Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon!

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04-20-2001, 11:09 AM	#2
Killercanary Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Altoona, PA Posts: 336	Rick- you posted this question at the perfect time for me. As you know my dad bought the Holley Systemax II kit about 2 months ago for his car. Well it has taken to now to get funds to complete the install, and when we checked the manual to see what RR's it called for, it has the part number for the FMS 1.6 PEDESTAL mount units listed, but his heads have studs in them. So I called Holley and after several hours someone called me back from their carb. division. He said he knew nothing of the kit, but I had him look up our part number of the kit to tell me what heads came with it- guess what, it is the 300-575 2.02" stud mount head! I told that the 2.02 valve wouldn't work with the stock pistons, so he said I'd have to call back yesterday. So I called and the tech guy told me that with their cam the 2.02" head will fit factory pistons?!?!? I'm really confused now, but I see the recess your talking about. I wasn't that thrilled with these heads when I looked inside the intake ports where the rocker stud came down through- there was a hunk of aluminum just hanging by a thread there where they had tapped the hole, as soon as I toughed it it fell off. The thing was the size of my finger nail, just think what might have happened if it had broken off and gone into the motor!!! I still don't know what to do with these heads, as I'd hate to tear the car apart, put the head on and then find out it won't work and then have to send them back and wait for a new set. Plus I think the 2.02" valve would be overkill on his motor, I think it would kill velocity and therefore low end torque. Anyone else think this. Anyone have a recommendation as to what to do, keep the head, send it back, what? ------------------ 95 GT convt' 5 speed, 3.73's,FMS HD clutch, Pro 5.0 shifter, ASP alum. underdrive pulleys, Bassani offroad X pipe, 2 chmbr flowmasters, K&N w/o silencer, edelbrock performer intake, FRPP 65mm T-body, FRPP shorty headers, FRPP aluminum driveshaft.Hooker 4pt chrome car bar, Xenon/Wings West ground effects, custom interior Best ET: 13.83 Best MPH: 98.55mph with Best 60': 1.91 on Nitto DR's Homepage: <A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/pa2/killercanary" TARGET=_blank>http://www.angelfire

04-20-2001, 01:29 PM	#3
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	I really dont know... but as for the 2.02" valve, thats what I have, and I have TONS of lowend. No complaints. Sky ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, headers and 3chamber flows. 12.55@107mph Going for 11's on 87 octane with A/C and 20+MPG!!!

04-20-2001, 09:02 PM	#4
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	Well I was on the phone with Holley today for about 25mins, they heads I received are correct 300-575 2.02 x 1.60 vlaves 17 degrees. The only thing the guy could come up with was maybe the last set of heads I received wer the 300-579 stamped wrong these are 2.02 x 1.60 20 degree heads. The 17 degree heads will put the valve in a differnet positon with the piston so that is why there is high clearances. After fly cutting I have .315 on the exhaust and .230 on the intake, plenty of clearance with my Anderson beast. The fly cutting also gave me a little more clearance on the outside edges of the eyebrow for extra insurance. Sorry to hear your heads look bad they are AFR assembled per conversations with Ed Curtis. Ed told me he would pick the heads over the E'brocks, TFS, Windsor or any FMS heads, but he still favored the AFR's. I would say keep them they are a good head. I run the Crane Blazer 1.6 rr and they are nice pieces $200 from Jegs or Scummit. According to Holley Tech these heads are the new standard head to come with the kit due to the great flow numbers they have and are good for 15+hp over the other heads. Mine looked great but I did have to port match them to the lower manifold, there was a 1/8 step on some, I cleaned up all the intake ports and fully polished the exhaust ports and chambers. I bought the 1262 and they work very well with the large ports of the Holley's. I really like my Holley heads I just wish I knew what I had last time around . Well if your Dads are the same as mine they should work with stock pistons, I am running .544/.568 with 224/236 duration now and I have no problems at all. What am did he go with? I got the long block built today, I'll drop it in tomorrow and get the rest of it together, then next week its tranny rebuild time and the gears/rear will have to wait till next month. My baby should be alive next weekend I can't wait, it has been so long...12 weeks! ------------------ Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon! [This message has been edited by Rick 91GT (edited 04-20-2001).]

04-21-2001, 10:06 PM	#5
Killercanary Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Altoona, PA Posts: 336	Rick- he is staying with the holley cam for now as funds are a little tight. He wants a Ed Curtis ground one, but after seeing how mine is going to take about 6 more weeks, he decided to hold off till next year and swap the cam. I went with the FTI cam, but like I said, Ed is having problems getting blank units, so it will be a while till I get it. BTW- we recently installed my old 3.73's in my dad's 91 and swapped in an electric fan from a 94 tempo and a 130 amp alt from a 94 3.8 mustang. He went 13.6 at 98.9mph with a 1.89 60'. His car is still almost totally stock except for exhaust, pulleys, gears, subframe conn., and upper and lower control arms. I hope these heads work for him. ------------------ 95 GT convt' 5 speed, 3.73's,FMS HD clutch, Pro 5.0 shifter, ASP alum. underdrive pulleys, Bassani offroad X pipe, 2 chmbr flowmasters, K&N w/o silencer, edelbrock performer intake, FRPP 65mm T-body, FRPP shorty headers, FRPP aluminum driveshaft.Hooker 4pt chrome car bar, Xenon/Wings West ground effects, custom interior Best ET: 13.83 Best MPH: 98.55mph with Best 60': 1.91 on Nitto DR's Homepage: <A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/pa2/killercanary" TARGET=_blank>http://www.angelfire

04-22-2001, 09:53 AM	#6
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	They are great times for a almost stock stang with limited mods. I wanted a FTI cam but I knew Ed was having lead time problems that's why I went with a Anderson grind. I really like the Holley heads but I would mock it up and port match the heads to the lower intake they don't match very well , I did that along with polishing the chambers and exhaust. I dropped the motor in last night now I need to finish bolting on the induction and little odds and ends, run the MSD and Elxtric fan and the motor will be al done, I am going to rebuild the tranny this week and should start it for the first time next weekend.Tell your dad to run a standard oil pump, the Holley cam pulls low vacuum but it did make awesome power, wait till you hear it. Good luck with the install, let me know if you need any help or questions. Did you get your AFR's yet? ------------------ Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon!

04-22-2001, 12:02 PM	#7
Moxie Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Plymouth, MI Posts: 254	The 'new' heads included with the Systemax II kit are from AFR. The 'old' heads that used to come with the kit were made by Brodix. ------------------ Moxie Racing The Nitrous Oxide Information Site

04-22-2001, 10:03 PM	#8
Killercanary Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Altoona, PA Posts: 336	Rick- Holley called us on friday and they are telling us that on a stock bottom end, the 2.02" valve head will work fine, but I'm still unsure. I did finally get my AFR heads. I now have the heads, 1.6 FMS pedestal rockers, 75mm Pro-M MAF, 24lb injectors, and I ordered the FTI cam and thin head gaskets from Ed. My dad just got his 30lb injectors and 76mm C&L meter, do the new C&L meters not use jumper wires anymore- do they use just the sampling tube? Also, do they sell the different sampling tubes for the meter, as i think we might buy the 19lb one to use till we can finish getting all the parts for his car.

04-23-2001, 06:45 AM	#9
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	Paul as far as I know C&L doesn't require a jumper wire atleast the direction on my 76mm don't say that. I got rid of my 75mm Pro-M for the C&L I hope I made the right choice, it does look nice with the alum discharge tube. The only thing I had issues with with my old set of heads "which nobody at Holley really knows what they exactly were" was all my exhaust valves just kissed the pistons on the out side edge of the eyebrow. Now on the new heads I don't have that problem and I have plently on clearance with the Anderson grind which is pretty decent. I don't think he will have any problems, when are you guys doing the install? How so they AFR heads look? ------------------ Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon!