Help I need heads!!

SmokinStangGT · 04-25-2003, 09:17 AM

I have been having some trouble with my new setup. I put in keith black pistons with 12:1 compression, a nice big comp. cam.,all new bearings and rings, and the motor has been gone through and cleaned. But i am having a little trouble with the lower rpm range, it sems like the car wants to stall out then when it hits upper rpms the car sounds good. The heads are stock and lighty ported, so i was wondering if i slap on a new set of high flowing heads would this help me? The cam is pretty big and people have been telling me i sould get bigger and better heads. And if so what heads would work the best? Thanks.

I have a comp. cam with .501 lift on intake and exuast and duration is 270/270 and rpm range is 1,800 to 5,800.

I was looking at some World Products heads and some trick flow heads, any comments or experiances please tell.

bigred90gt · 04-25-2003, 11:30 AM

The world products roush 200's seem to be a decent head from what I can tell. Here is a link to info on these heads. Trick Flow makes some pretty good heads also. From what I gather just reading on here and other sites, the AFR 185's are an awsome head. Pricey, but worth the extra dough, so I've been told. I have no personal experience with any aftermarket heads, but I was considering the Roush 200's for my stang. Also, check these out. They dont seem to be too bad of a head for the money. Hope this helps.

Caymon

SmokinStangGT · 04-27-2003, 09:50 PM

Thanks for your input, but will my new heads make it idle better because at low rpms it sucks and higher it is better like it is struggling or could it be something else?-Thanks

Skyman · 04-28-2003, 01:27 PM

12:1?? Thats a lot of compression, and on stock heads you better be running some damn good gas!

WADS56 · 04-28-2003, 02:43 PM

Heads will help without a doubt for overall performance but may not be needed. You said your heads have been ported, and I have seen some E7's that flow ok with a port job. If you get some big heads low rpm power could get worse because of a larger runner and valve.
What gears do you have out back? Even a full race 306 that shifts at 8000rpm will be a dog off idle. You need gears to make up for the loss of low rpm power. Most cams will tell you this along with the proper stall speed if you have a auto.

SmokinStangGT · 04-28-2003, 10:02 PM

Yea i want to lower the compression of the pistons, by using a bigger CC they are 12:1 on 54cc heads so i wanted to drop it to 11:1 or less by using 63 or 64 CC heads, and my cam would work well with these heads also but i dont want to lose any low end tourqe what kind of heads or setup should i use, because i have stock 2:73s in the rear but i like the top end they have i hit 170 in fourth i didnt take it to fifth, but i have the roush 200 heads in mind but im open to suggestions! I have high end parts in this car and it sucks that it dosent work! Any one hae anymore comments or suggestions?

WADS56 · 04-29-2003, 08:24 AM

You have to ditch the gears man. The only reason I could see keeping them would be if you had over 450ci of big block torque, or a positive displacement blower on your smallblock. Even then 2.73's will still hold you back.
Get some 3.73's or 4.10's and it will wake your car up big time! If you still are not happy I would go with Trick flows for heads with a good breathing meidum runner intake. With your cam the 2.02 valve may cause clearence problems with the World heads but I'm not sure what kind of notches you have in your pistons.. The trick flows may give you enough room without notching them.

Gears!
Gears!
Gears!

SmokinStangGT · 04-29-2003, 11:21 AM

Yea i wanted to go to 3.73s anyway, but back to the heads, i wanted to get better flow and a bigger cc so new heads can do that for me. The trick flow ones i was considering and since the world my not fit what do i look for in a head that i can tell if it will fit or not. here is what my piston looks like and thanks for all the help, basicly all i want to do is lower the compression ratio by usin the biggest CC in the head with it being a good flow. anyone else that can help me with this? Thanks!

WADS56 · 04-29-2003, 12:23 PM

That piston has big notches. I think you would be fine with almost any head out there with your cam. You still have to check PTV clearence though, but you should do that all the time anyways when you get into aftermarket heads and cams.
World Castings has good stuff but there is better out there. I had there windsor jr's on my old motor and liked them. It is hard to beat the price of there iron heads so thats why I got them. If you are going to spend the money for the "lites" (aluminum) I think AFR 165's would be much better by a long shot for your combo.

SmokinStangGT · 04-29-2003, 03:26 PM

That sounds good for my situation, thanks for all your help, i hope to see your car at the track some day running the low 10s! But mine will be there with you, lol, any more info you think i should know on heads feel free to put in your 2 cents, that goes for anyone. I think i was going to go with Roush but maybe the AFR 165s becasue i hear alot of good things with them. And anyone have any good deals on these feel free to tell me! -Thanks

SmokinStangGT · 04-30-2003, 10:15 AM

Anyone else have any other comments or ideas?? I am about to get the roush heads so if someone can make me think twice please do!

Dark Knight · 05-01-2003, 12:43 PM

well, 1st off.. if you have E-7's... they already have around a 62-63cc chamber.. and a .500 lift cam isnt THAT big..
as for the bottom end power, what intake are you using and how much timing? is it a carb car or FI?

86GT · 05-01-2003, 03:19 PM

Trick Flow heads. Lower cost, great flow, not bad for a high compression 306. They're aluminum so you save on weight, and have a lower chance of detonation. The only thing you'll need is a different length pushrod and a good set of stud mount roller rockers (depending on which version of the head).

SmokinStangGT · 05-01-2003, 11:54 PM

Yea i didnt know how big the heads were, and i blew both head gaskets on the inside of the head gasket cylinder holes, and water jacket holes cracked and were letting in coolent. I have the stock upper an lower but both ported a bit and a 65mm t.b. The heads that the roush had i wanted to have better flow because i am going to bolt on the holley upper and lower in a month or so. I dont have the money to throw in the aluminum heads and replace the rockers, etc.. I have a small port job on the heads, and i wanted the bigger sized valves. Is it worth it to stick in the roush or try the heads again with some really good gaskets? The gaskets had to have been my problem im guessing but dont know if i should get the heads, i want them jsut so i have fresh heads but is it worth it??? -Thanks Everyone

SmokinStangGT · 05-03-2003, 01:10 PM

I guess i am goin to putin the fel-pro high performance gaskets now and retry the car. I had the OE replacments in there and they just let go. I anyone thinks i should not do this or try something else please speak! -Thanks

Dark Knight · 05-03-2003, 07:54 PM

make sure you re-torque them... you probably need to find the thickest head gasket you can to lower the compression some.. with that much compression, detonation is probably what caused the toasted head gasket...

SmokinStangGT · 05-04-2003, 01:49 AM

Yea i got a nice gasket with some good thickness on it, and i am goin to get the heads a little bigger, to try and shoot for the 64cc and that will help lower the compression even more. Does anyone know how 10.9:1 will run? Will it run good on premium or will i still have to mix? i thought i could get away with some Amaco Premuim seeing how they produce the highest octane and underrate it, that is why the price is a bit higher. And i think what caused the gasket blowout was improper tourqing by some friends that are not going to help this time, because i can see the way that the gasket blew through and it just looked weak not heated. Thanks everyone

JaxTheDJ · 05-04-2003, 03:08 PM

Before you spend 1500 on a set of aluminums,there is a guy here in Jax that does swap out's on E7's,his website is WWW.Thumperoforangepark.com This guy does amazing things with E7's for alot less money.I wish I would have found him before I bought the Edelbrocks I run,My racing partner runs them and is just as fast as I am for alot less money. cant hurt to look.

SmokinStangGT · 05-04-2003, 10:05 PM

Yea i looked and i might just take that route, but i have a friend that can port heads so if i was thinking of that and since you showed me that the heads can do this i may just try that. -thanks for the ideas, anyone have anything else please add!

04-25-2003, 09:17 AM	#1
SmokinStangGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: IL Posts: 105	Help I need heads!! I have been having some trouble with my new setup. I put in keith black pistons with 12:1 compression, a nice big comp. cam.,all new bearings and rings, and the motor has been gone through and cleaned. But i am having a little trouble with the lower rpm range, it sems like the car wants to stall out then when it hits upper rpms the car sounds good. The heads are stock and lighty ported, so i was wondering if i slap on a new set of high flowing heads would this help me? The cam is pretty big and people have been telling me i sould get bigger and better heads. And if so what heads would work the best? Thanks. I have a comp. cam with .501 lift on intake and exuast and duration is 270/270 and rpm range is 1,800 to 5,800. I was looking at some World Products heads and some trick flow heads, any comments or experiances please tell.

04-25-2003, 11:30 AM	#2
bigred90gt 2 Stangs in the Stable Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Baytown, TX Posts: 1,209	The world products roush 200's seem to be a decent head from what I can tell. Here is a link to info on these heads. Trick Flow makes some pretty good heads also. From what I gather just reading on here and other sites, the AFR 185's are an awsome head. Pricey, but worth the extra dough, so I've been told. I have no personal experience with any aftermarket heads, but I was considering the Roush 200's for my stang. Also, check these out. They dont seem to be too bad of a head for the money. Hope this helps. Caymon __________________ '90 GT Under construction Best E.T. = Fast @ High Speeds - OK So I Lie. So What!!! 04 F-150 STX 4.2L 5 spd Rice Haters Club Member #128

04-28-2003, 01:27 PM	#4
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	12:1?? Thats a lot of compression, and on stock heads you better be running some damn good gas! __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

04-28-2003, 02:43 PM	#5
WADS56 gear banger Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: CHICAGO Posts: 1,144	Heads will help without a doubt for overall performance but may not be needed. You said your heads have been ported, and I have seen some E7's that flow ok with a port job. If you get some big heads low rpm power could get worse because of a larger runner and valve. What gears do you have out back? Even a full race 306 that shifts at 8000rpm will be a dog off idle. You need gears to make up for the loss of low rpm power. Most cams will tell you this along with the proper stall speed if you have a auto. __________________ 79 Hatch: NA 347, Stage 2 Canfield Heads, Victor JR. Intake, Blueprinted Holley 750 HP, Solid Roller Cam, Shooting for 10's on motor 93 LX: Tremec, dual friction clutch, fms flywheel, Hedman shorties, O/R H-pipe Ricer hater's club member #49

04-29-2003, 08:24 AM	#7
WADS56 gear banger Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: CHICAGO Posts: 1,144	You have to ditch the gears man. The only reason I could see keeping them would be if you had over 450ci of big block torque, or a positive displacement blower on your smallblock. Even then 2.73's will still hold you back. Get some 3.73's or 4.10's and it will wake your car up big time! If you still are not happy I would go with Trick flows for heads with a good breathing meidum runner intake. With your cam the 2.02 valve may cause clearence problems with the World heads but I'm not sure what kind of notches you have in your pistons.. The trick flows may give you enough room without notching them. Gears! Gears! Gears! __________________ 79 Hatch: NA 347, Stage 2 Canfield Heads, Victor JR. Intake, Blueprinted Holley 750 HP, Solid Roller Cam, Shooting for 10's on motor 93 LX: Tremec, dual friction clutch, fms flywheel, Hedman shorties, O/R H-pipe Ricer hater's club member #49

04-27-2003, 09:50 PM	#3
SmokinStangGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: IL Posts: 105	Thanks for your input, but will my new heads make it idle better because at low rpms it sucks and higher it is better like it is struggling or could it be something else?-Thanks

04-28-2003, 10:02 PM	#6
SmokinStangGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: IL Posts: 105	Yea i want to lower the compression of the pistons, by using a bigger CC they are 12:1 on 54cc heads so i wanted to drop it to 11:1 or less by using 63 or 64 CC heads, and my cam would work well with these heads also but i dont want to lose any low end tourqe what kind of heads or setup should i use, because i have stock 2:73s in the rear but i like the top end they have i hit 170 in fourth i didnt take it to fifth, but i have the roush 200 heads in mind but im open to suggestions! I have high end parts in this car and it sucks that it dosent work! Any one hae anymore comments or suggestions?

04-29-2003, 12:23 PM	#9
WADS56 gear banger Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: CHICAGO Posts: 1,144	That piston has big notches. I think you would be fine with almost any head out there with your cam. You still have to check PTV clearence though, but you should do that all the time anyways when you get into aftermarket heads and cams. World Castings has good stuff but there is better out there. I had there windsor jr's on my old motor and liked them. It is hard to beat the price of there iron heads so thats why I got them. If you are going to spend the money for the "lites" (aluminum) I think AFR 165's would be much better by a long shot for your combo. __________________ 79 Hatch: NA 347, Stage 2 Canfield Heads, Victor JR. Intake, Blueprinted Holley 750 HP, Solid Roller Cam, Shooting for 10's on motor 93 LX: Tremec, dual friction clutch, fms flywheel, Hedman shorties, O/R H-pipe Ricer hater's club member #49

04-29-2003, 03:26 PM	#10
SmokinStangGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: IL Posts: 105	That sounds good for my situation, thanks for all your help, i hope to see your car at the track some day running the low 10s! But mine will be there with you, lol, any more info you think i should know on heads feel free to put in your 2 cents, that goes for anyone. I think i was going to go with Roush but maybe the AFR 165s becasue i hear alot of good things with them. And anyone have any good deals on these feel free to tell me! -Thanks

04-30-2003, 10:15 AM	#11
SmokinStangGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: IL Posts: 105	Anyone else have any other comments or ideas?? I am about to get the roush heads so if someone can make me think twice please do!

05-01-2003, 12:43 PM	#12
Dark Knight Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Az Posts: 854	well, 1st off.. if you have E-7's... they already have around a 62-63cc chamber.. and a .500 lift cam isnt THAT big.. as for the bottom end power, what intake are you using and how much timing? is it a carb car or FI? __________________ 84 convt,roller 302,AFR's, performer 3.55's, underdrives BBK shorties stock cam, 1.7's 13.58@102.84 and a '68 stang .. project 8 sec street car... 557 big block + N20 :-) http://members.cox.net/darkknight302/68nwrear.jpg

05-01-2003, 03:19 PM	#13
86GT Sniffed too much n20 Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Ont, Canada Posts: 1,018	Trick Flow heads. Lower cost, great flow, not bad for a high compression 306. They're aluminum so you save on weight, and have a lower chance of detonation. The only thing you'll need is a different length pushrod and a good set of stud mount roller rockers (depending on which version of the head). __________________ 2002 Windsor Weekend Q16 Qualifier

05-01-2003, 11:54 PM	#14
SmokinStangGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: IL Posts: 105	Yea i didnt know how big the heads were, and i blew both head gaskets on the inside of the head gasket cylinder holes, and water jacket holes cracked and were letting in coolent. I have the stock upper an lower but both ported a bit and a 65mm t.b. The heads that the roush had i wanted to have better flow because i am going to bolt on the holley upper and lower in a month or so. I dont have the money to throw in the aluminum heads and replace the rockers, etc.. I have a small port job on the heads, and i wanted the bigger sized valves. Is it worth it to stick in the roush or try the heads again with some really good gaskets? The gaskets had to have been my problem im guessing but dont know if i should get the heads, i want them jsut so i have fresh heads but is it worth it??? -Thanks Everyone

05-03-2003, 01:10 PM	#15
SmokinStangGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: IL Posts: 105	Gonna Try I guess i am goin to putin the fel-pro high performance gaskets now and retry the car. I had the OE replacments in there and they just let go. I anyone thinks i should not do this or try something else please speak! -Thanks

05-03-2003, 07:54 PM	#16
Dark Knight Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Az Posts: 854	make sure you re-torque them... you probably need to find the thickest head gasket you can to lower the compression some.. with that much compression, detonation is probably what caused the toasted head gasket... __________________ 84 convt,roller 302,AFR's, performer 3.55's, underdrives BBK shorties stock cam, 1.7's 13.58@102.84 and a '68 stang .. project 8 sec street car... 557 big block + N20 :-) http://members.cox.net/darkknight302/68nwrear.jpg

05-04-2003, 01:49 AM	#17
SmokinStangGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: IL Posts: 105	Yea i got a nice gasket with some good thickness on it, and i am goin to get the heads a little bigger, to try and shoot for the 64cc and that will help lower the compression even more. Does anyone know how 10.9:1 will run? Will it run good on premium or will i still have to mix? i thought i could get away with some Amaco Premuim seeing how they produce the highest octane and underrate it, that is why the price is a bit higher. And i think what caused the gasket blowout was improper tourqing by some friends that are not going to help this time, because i can see the way that the gasket blew through and it just looked weak not heated. Thanks everyone

05-04-2003, 03:08 PM	#18
JaxTheDJ Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Jacksonville,Fla. Posts: 134	Before you spend 1500 on a set of aluminums,there is a guy here in Jax that does swap out's on E7's,his website is WWW.Thumperoforangepark.com This guy does amazing things with E7's for alot less money.I wish I would have found him before I bought the Edelbrocks I run,My racing partner runs them and is just as fast as I am for alot less money. cant hurt to look. __________________ Jack 1989 Mustang LX: Converted to Carb.650 AED Holley DP,Weiand Stealth Intake,Edelbrock Performer RPM Aluminum Heads,Hooker Super Comps, Ground Pounder Uppers and Lowers,Moroso Drag Springs,NEW COMP Xtreme Energy Cam and 1.6 RR. ,a few other goodies.*** New 1/4 times-12.50 1987 SC GT ( fast as hell) 2001 Powerstroke Tow Vehicle 1989 Coupe. Sometimes when you cry,no one sees your tears.......... Sometimes when you are happy,no one sees your smile......... But,FART just ONE time..........

05-04-2003, 10:05 PM	#19
SmokinStangGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: IL Posts: 105	Yea i looked and i might just take that route, but i have a friend that can port heads so if i was thinking of that and since you showed me that the heads can do this i may just try that. -thanks for the ideas, anyone have anything else please add! __________________ 89' GT with 5spd Hurst short throw, Keith Black 12:1 comp. pistons, Sealed Power drag racing rings, Fms F303 Cam, Ported and polished upper and lower intake with Ported E7TE heads that contain comp. cam double coiled springs with titainum locks and steel retainers, Fel-Pro Head Gaskets, 9mm ford racing wires, BBK chrome unequal shortys, Power Throttle bodies 70mm, Edlebrock 70mm EGR plate, 15inch K&N, Bassani X-pipe, Flowmaster 40 series, Eibach 1 1/2 lowering springs, Cobra R rims 17X9 with p235 on front and p275 on rear with Falken Zeix tires-RUNNING!

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