Ideas for building HP in a 351 Cleveland

heavyhook · 09-30-2004, 01:15 PM

I would like any sugestions in building a 351c. I am thinking along the lines of using a stroker kit (scat) with a steel crank and forged pistions. I am also thinking of using one of comp cams conversion kits so I can run a adjustable roller lifters and rockers. This project motor is the orgional with 122,000 miles on it and has never been in to. My father bought the Mach1 it is in new and sold it to me a couple of years ago. It still runs great but I would like to get up the hp on it and still have it reliable. I do not plan on using NOS at this point but my consider it in the future at some point. I plan to use it around town and at the local strip on the weekends. I plan on keeping the orgional 4v heads but having them worked on. I have heard that the exhaust passages can be modifed by welding in them to smooth out the air flow. I want to keep the orgional NASA hood with the ram air so a blower is not in my plans. I have about $6,000 + or - to spend on this project. Also I need to stay with 93 octane pump gas. Thanks

bmxmon · 10-02-2004, 07:59 PM

you should move your post to the windsor forum, you will get alot more responses. I dont know what to tell you for building hp, but alot of people here do, so they will help you out. good luck

MustangDragon · 10-04-2004, 04:55 AM

Do you want feel the HP or are you going to drive this back and forth to work?

heavyhook · 10-04-2004, 09:26 AM

To answer your question. This car will never be used as a transportation platform to and form work or as a grocery getter. I intend to cruse on the weekends and go to the local NHRA strip on ocassion to run heads up classes. I might even join the Hot Rod Power Tour and make their trek some year. Thats why I would like to build decent HP but need it to be reliable and still run on 93 pump gas.

7DMACH1 · 10-09-2004, 12:39 PM

I have a 408 cleveland. It a scat crank with scat "h" beam rods. Custom JE pistons with 11-1 comp. Comp solid roller cam, 248@.50 with .623 lift. Stock heads, Torker intake and a 800dp Holley. Engine dynoed 567 flywheel hp @ 6300 rpms. and 500 ft lbs of torque @ 5000rpms.

heavyhook · 10-09-2004, 07:22 PM

I thank you all for your replies. I am a little confused concerning the last post on the 408 stroked cleveland. From what I understand the cleveland can only be stroked to a 393ci but the windsor can be stroked to a 408 because of its somewhat taller deck height in relation to the center of the crank?How do you'll feel about the SCAT products for this kind of build? Thanks for any help.

7DMACH1 · 10-09-2004, 11:18 PM

I'm happy with the Scat stuff. It is a 408c and here's an place advertising them. RAY

351 CLEVELAND STROKER KITS

The 393 Cleveland Stroker Kit features a Scat crankshaft with a 3.850" stroke. This kit uses Eagle I-Beam or optional H-Beam rods and custom forged flat top pistons. Rings and bearings are included. Special timing chain set included. Prices start at $1695.

The 408 Cleveland Stroker Kit features a Scat crankshaft with a 4.000" stroke. This kit uses Eagle I-Beam or optional H-Beam rods and custom forged flat top pistons. Rings and bearings are included. Special timing chain set included. Prices start at $1750.

heavyhook · 10-10-2004, 09:30 AM

Ray, Thanks for straighten out the myth about the 408 for a cleveland, I did find some kits. This great because the only thing better than cubic inches is cubic feet. I could go to a big block but my 71 motor is still all orgional and I would like to keep it that way as far as the numbers and outside of the block and heads look.
Did you have to clearance the rods on the block with the 4.00 stroke. I would assume that the piston skirts are pre clearenced being in a 408 kit. I am thinking of using a kit from crane that they offer ( guide plates and rocker studs that fit the 4V pedestals) so I can use solid roller and adjustable rockers. This would save the cost of having the rocker pedestals machined. Do you have any sugestions on parts for my head build up?
I,ve noticed that eldebrock offers a epoxy puddy for use in porting working on intake and exhaust passages. The reason I bring this up is I am cinsidering using it in the exhaust passages of my 4V heads to clean up the air flow from the bad dip in the bottom of the passages. I have read in many cleveland books that they usually weld in these areas before doing their port work? Thanks again

7DMACH1 · 10-10-2004, 07:24 PM

The epoxy is a good idea for the ports. I didn't do mine. A machine shop did my engine, but I know thay had to clearence things. He custom ordered the pistons from JE. I have a solid roller and had the heads machined for studs. I had Harland Sharp roller rocker. When I adjusted the valves I could see the rocker studs flexing. I didn't like that so I installed Jessel bolt down rockers. RAY

heavyhook · 10-10-2004, 07:58 PM

Ray, Thanks for the input. Do you remember what your machine shop bill was? The Jesel shaft rockers look really strong. Did you have to drill and tap extra holes to mount the shafts for the Jesel set up? Also do you have an trouble running 93 octain pump gas with your 11 to 1 set up?

7DMACH1 · 10-10-2004, 08:02 PM

No, they botl down with a single bolt and then the rocker shat bolts to the stand. I run Sunoco Ultra 94 with no pinning problem runn 36 degrees total timing. Look at Jesels web site for pictures of how they go together. Not cheap, $1375.00.

7DMACH1 · 10-10-2004, 08:04 PM

I had the entire engine built by the shop, balanced and blue printed and dynoed. $7000.00

heavyhook · 10-10-2004, 09:36 PM

Ray, I talked with Keith Kraft at their Plano, Texas Shop last week about my engine build up. Keith builds motors for many NHRA stock record holders. I spoke with two of them that hold records in a 70 mach1 and his son that holds a stock record in a Salen about a year ago at a NHRA meet in Ennis, Texas. They said Keith Kraft is one of the best in the country. I have built several motors in the past but not to the extent that I want going into this one. Kraft told me it would 6K to 8K depending what we put into the build.
It sounds like you have a reall sweet moto, and the pictures are great. *8 grand* is reasonable when you have a passion you are into. My wife tells me that I love my 71 Mach1 more than I do her. I do spend more waking hours on the Mustang than I do with Her. But the rewards are just as wonderful, and the Mach1 almost never has a bad day that I can't figure out why it happend. These cars are truly a joy to work on. Thanks again

09-30-2004, 01:15 PM	#1
heavyhook Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 6	Ideas for building HP in a 351 Cleveland I would like any sugestions in building a 351c. I am thinking along the lines of using a stroker kit (scat) with a steel crank and forged pistions. I am also thinking of using one of comp cams conversion kits so I can run a adjustable roller lifters and rockers. This project motor is the orgional with 122,000 miles on it and has never been in to. My father bought the Mach1 it is in new and sold it to me a couple of years ago. It still runs great but I would like to get up the hp on it and still have it reliable. I do not plan on using NOS at this point but my consider it in the future at some point. I plan to use it around town and at the local strip on the weekends. I plan on keeping the orgional 4v heads but having them worked on. I have heard that the exhaust passages can be modifed by welding in them to smooth out the air flow. I want to keep the orgional NASA hood with the ram air so a blower is not in my plans. I have about $6,000 + or - to spend on this project. Also I need to stay with 93 octane pump gas. Thanks

10-04-2004, 04:55 AM	#3
MustangDragon Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1	*Do you want feel the HP or are you going to drive this back and forth to work?* __________________ 72 Mach I, 13.54 @ 104.23 351C w/2V Heads 2.19/1.71, 9.0:1. Roller Rockers, Comp 282S Cam, Weiand Xcelerator Intake, Headers, EdelBrock 600, C-4, 2500 Stall, 4.11

10-04-2004, 09:26 AM	#4
heavyhook Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 6	street cruser/weekend continder To answer your question. This car will never be used as a transportation platform to and form work or as a grocery getter. I intend to cruse on the weekends and go to the local NHRA strip on ocassion to run heads up classes. I might even join the Hot Rod Power Tour and make their trek some year. Thats why I would like to build decent HP but need it to be reliable and still run on 93 pump gas. Last edited by heavyhook; 10-04-2004 at 01:05 PM..

10-09-2004, 12:39 PM	#5
7DMACH1 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: PHILA. PA USA Posts: 469	I have a 408 cleveland. It a scat crank with scat "h" beam rods. Custom JE pistons with 11-1 comp. Comp solid roller cam, 248@.50 with .623 lift. Stock heads, Torker intake and a 800dp Holley. Engine dynoed 567 flywheel hp @ 6300 rpms. and 500 ft lbs of torque @ 5000rpms. __________________ Your Way Network VIDEOS www.yourwayvideo.com

10-09-2004, 07:22 PM	#6
heavyhook Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 6	408 stroker I thank you all for your replies. I am a little confused concerning the last post on the 408 stroked cleveland. From what I understand the cleveland can only be stroked to a 393ci but the windsor can be stroked to a 408 because of its somewhat taller deck height in relation to the center of the crank?How do you'll feel about the SCAT products for this kind of build? Thanks for any help.

10-02-2004, 07:59 PM	#2
bmxmon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 950	you should move your post to the windsor forum, you will get alot more responses. I dont know what to tell you for building hp, but alot of people here do, so they will help you out. good luck

10-09-2004, 11:18 PM	#7
7DMACH1 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: PHILA. PA USA Posts: 469	I'm happy with the Scat stuff. It is a 408c and here's an place advertising them. RAY 351 CLEVELAND STROKER KITS The 393 Cleveland Stroker Kit features a Scat crankshaft with a 3.850" stroke. This kit uses Eagle I-Beam or optional H-Beam rods and custom forged flat top pistons. Rings and bearings are included. Special timing chain set included. Prices start at $1695. The 408 Cleveland Stroker Kit features a Scat crankshaft with a 4.000" stroke. This kit uses Eagle I-Beam or optional H-Beam rods and custom forged flat top pistons. Rings and bearings are included. Special timing chain set included. Prices start at $1750. __________________ Your Way Network VIDEOS www.yourwayvideo.com

10-10-2004, 09:30 AM	#8
heavyhook Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 6	408 stroker Ray, Thanks for straighten out the myth about the 408 for a cleveland, I did find some kits. This great because the only thing better than cubic inches is cubic feet. I could go to a big block but my 71 motor is still all orgional and I would like to keep it that way as far as the numbers and outside of the block and heads look. Did you have to clearance the rods on the block with the 4.00 stroke. I would assume that the piston skirts are pre clearenced being in a 408 kit. I am thinking of using a kit from crane that they offer ( guide plates and rocker studs that fit the 4V pedestals) so I can use solid roller and adjustable rockers. This would save the cost of having the rocker pedestals machined. Do you have any sugestions on parts for my head build up? I,ve noticed that eldebrock offers a epoxy puddy for use in porting working on intake and exhaust passages. The reason I bring this up is I am cinsidering using it in the exhaust passages of my 4V heads to clean up the air flow from the bad dip in the bottom of the passages. I have read in many cleveland books that they usually weld in these areas before doing their port work? Thanks again

10-10-2004, 07:58 PM	#10
heavyhook Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 6	engine machi ne work Ray, Thanks for the input. Do you remember what your machine shop bill was? The Jesel shaft rockers look really strong. Did you have to drill and tap extra holes to mount the shafts for the Jesel set up? Also do you have an trouble running 93 octain pump gas with your 11 to 1 set up?

10-10-2004, 08:04 PM	#12
7DMACH1 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: PHILA. PA USA Posts: 469	I had the entire engine built by the shop, balanced and blue printed and dynoed. $7000.00 __________________ Your Way Network VIDEOS www.yourwayvideo.com

10-10-2004, 09:36 PM	#13
heavyhook Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 6	engine build Ray, I talked with Keith Kraft at their Plano, Texas Shop last week about my engine build up. Keith builds motors for many NHRA stock record holders. I spoke with two of them that hold records in a 70 mach1 and his son that holds a stock record in a Salen about a year ago at a NHRA meet in Ennis, Texas. They said Keith Kraft is one of the best in the country. I have built several motors in the past but not to the extent that I want going into this one. Kraft told me it would 6K to 8K depending what we put into the build. It sounds like you have a reall sweet moto, and the pictures are great. 8 grand is reasonable when you have a passion you are into. My wife tells me that I love my 71 Mach1 more than I do her. I do spend more waking hours on the Mustang than I do with Her. But the rewards are just as wonderful, and the Mach1 almost never has a bad day that I can't figure out why it happend. These cars are truly a joy to work on. Thanks again

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