Making the most of what I've got

[KiltedBanshees93GT]

The reason for this question is that the other night I got into it with a Nissan SUV, and barely held my own. (Granted , when things started I was already too high in the power band)
Anyway, my question is why doesent the car make more power (seat of the pants pull. She doesent even brake traction i.e. spin from a stop) Is there something flawed with my combo? Or does the car just need tuning? (she does have a new carb, which I'm still learning. The old one was way rich, but she could chirp second w/ the shift kit the new one is a lot smoother, but no chirp)
Currently she has a holley 4160 vac secondary (if anything tuned a bit lean), 66 shelby Hi rise manifold (too much of a high RPM manifold for the app?) Unknown heads, possibly stock and hooker tri-y's. This is on a 289 w/ about 60k miles.
What areas should I focus on to make more streetable power?
Also, is there any way other than via the eardrum to see what my cars preferred rpm is? She seems to have some good pull on top, but the 3 speed drags it back down, and I dont want to risk blowing my motor or tranny trying to pull it up high.

Thanks,
J

P.s. the tranny is a c-4 w/ shift kit, and the rear is a 3.25 posi. (looking to go for a 3.73ish ratio in the future)
I can't wait until I get a t-5 into her......

[rwhite65]

I do not see anything wrong with it, just needs more attention to certain areas (IMO).
Honestly for seat of the pants feel, and for your combination.....a good torque convertor would do you a lot of good. Pricey, but a great addition to my set-up (love it!!) This is pointless if u r still wanting the five speed, which would also be a good modification if u prefer the stick. If that is the case, GEARS, GEARS, GEARS!!!
Ford heads are restrictive...a good set of heads would be good for you as they would for all of us. What is your exhaust like?

And as a lot of them preach on hear, tunin g ur current combination correctly is always a key, these guys can give lots of tips on that one. The powerband is something I have always listened and felt for. This comes from my dirt bike riding, but has been pretty reliable. How high are you wanting to rev the 289? I would imagine with your set-up, it would be hard to over rev it, I would think the power would die off way berfore then. The valve springs are going to limit you probably first. Any other opinions guys?
Ryan

[KiltedBanshees93GT]

I've thought about getting a new converter, the t-5 plan is still kinda far down the line, considering the other projects in the near future (suspension needs a rebuild something fierce). A converter might be a good stopgap. I'm not sure what a good speed for it would be tho, its supposed to stall about 200rpm lower than the powerband, right? So something like a 2300-2500?
As far as tuning goes, I agree completly, and that is something that I'm still learning<g>
I am planning on gears in the near future too, but the only concern I have is that the car would wind out too fast. (this is where the 5 speed would come in)
I've heard that early 70's 351w heads are a nice "budget" upgrade, what specifics should I look for in the head specs for this engine/combo?
The exaust is a GT dual setup with gt trumpets and flowmasters.
What would be the highest rpm a non hi-po should go? The car was originally a 2barrel "c" code. Ive been paranoid of overreving it since I got it.
Thanks for the ideas.
J

[rwhite65]

I have never had a 289, but I would guess with the stock valvetrain, u better stick to no higher than 5500 rpms...but I am sure someone else in here will know this better than me.

I would leave ur gears alone until you get a 5 speed, and focus on suspension and engine goodies. AS for the T.C., u can always call a good company like precision industries, they will ask you a lot of questions on ur car and tell u what u would need.

AS for heads, for budget heads these might be ok http://thumperoforangepark.com/ or maybe a set of gt 40 heads off of ebay. But after I bought a set of ford heads....see signature, I wish I would saved a little longer and got some good aluminum heads like trick flow.....just my opinion though. Just remember that bigger valves does not mean more power....the rest of the combo effects the heads performance limitations.
Ryan

[KiltedBanshees93GT]

Thanks for the link, as for the rpms, I was thinking about 5500 would be right.
I think you hit my problem on the head about planning how all the components work together. The biggest frustration I have with the 66 is that I dont really know where I'm starting/what I'm working with. One of the previous owners obviously had a plan, but I dont know what it was.
The car has an aftermarket cam, judging from the lope, and I have no idea what kind of heads (I think stock, but...). So I dont know what I'm starting with, and what they were in the process of building.
This is another reason that I want to build a motor from the ground up (351w for the cubes, naturally) so I can plan all the parts to work together. I would imagine that I would pay an equal amout to replace all the 289 parts with what I want/planned combos.Grrrr....
J

[rwhite65]

What is your plan for this car? Where do you want to go with it? Do you have any idea how much power you want, then it would be easier to help you with your buildup on advice and how much money.
Ryan

[mustangman65_79]

I would say the only prob I see right now, is that u need to tune that carb. It being a vac sec, u can go out and buy new springs for the vac and thus letting the sec open up at a lower RPM. They might not even be opening up at all with the stock spring.

[mustangman65_79]

Maybe i should explain a little more about the vac sec spring.

When someone, like u have a comibation, like a bigger cam, highrise intake, open air filter, full lenth headers, etc u lose vac psi at the carb. The vac sec spring rely on this to open up the sec. So to counther this affect, u need to go out and buy these springs which are lighter.

When u buy the kit, there should be about 7 springs in it. 6 of which are listed, the other 1 is not. I'd start with the one that is not listed, and u can tell that it is the lightest spring in the pack. Pu tit in, and go run the piss out of it. If your motor bugs out at say, 2,000 or so RPM, the spring is too light, and then u move on to the bext, trying it too. If it doesn't bog out, then it should be ok.

[KiltedBanshees93GT]

Kaspar: That is actually something that I have been working on (getting the carb tuned, I'm still learning), I've been playing around with the carb, if a bit on the conservative side. I just bought a vac gauge and am going to try it on the car, this weekend if I can. I would say that the secondary is opening, I know last time I got on it, you could feel the tip in on the secondarys opening, and the added pull, it just doesent seem as stong as my old carb (which was tuned really rich, to the point the car smelled like a gas station.)
Like I said, I just need to keep playing with it. *side note: even with the new carb, I still can't seem to get the carb to idle below 1500 without the engine dying out/stumbling/generally not liking it. Could this be related to the combo on the engine? Low vac due to cam/intake requiring higher rpm to maintain the vacum?

RWhite: As to the ultimate plans for the car, here goes:
Ultimatly (this being after I have a house, i.e. sometime in the next year)I'm looking at a reliable (moderatly) high 3-low 400 hp street car. I want to go with a EFI 351w (still leaning toward stroked)with either a t-5, 3550 or tko.
I want to build it to be able to take the hp and really get it to the road, i.e. heavy on the suspension/brakes. I would rather have a moderate HP car that can get it all to the road, instead of huge hp and big clouds of smoke.
Since the 289 is (in theory) temp, I'm not planning to much as far as mods, but I do want it to be able to hold up against the stock yahoos on the street. 250+hp would be a nice thing.

Am I looking for too much with my setup? or an I just not going about things right?

J

[rwhite65]

Ok, well my limiting factor has always been my heads. With what you just said your plans are, here is what I would do if "I" were you.
Since you want a 351w in the future, but still want the 289 to run strong right now: Obviously, tuning the carb is a priority.....and there are many on here much more qualified at giving advice on that then me.

Seems like getting a good set of aluminum heads now, would help you in a few ways. One, u will free up a little weight in the front, which is good for handling and track times also. And then ur heads would not be limiting u on ur times, but would be good for your future 351w. From what I have read, u should be able to buy aluminum heads for the 351 w, and use some special pieces they make to allow them to bolt to the 289. Special pieces are needed because the 351w head bolts are biger the the 302/289.

Sure you might not use the full potential of the heads now, but they should help considerablly. Plus, now u have one more component to go with the 351w in the future.
Ryan

[KiltedBanshees93GT]

I have to say, I had not thought about going with a 289+351 compatible head. that is something I'm going to investigate,

Thanks for the info.

J

[orlowted]

Have you had the car at the track....Being beaten by a new car is not going to be uncommon these days. How well does it run when pushed? I have a 2001 Cobra and my 65 with a mild 289 will keep up with it until it comes time to stop. Sounds like maybe there is maybe more than just a performance issue...It might be deeper than the surface...tuning or such.
TJ

[rwhite65]

I hate to admit to it, but we with the old stangs are going to be constantly playing catch up with the newer cars. We can be faster, but they have better performance platforms stock to stock. U just can't beat the look of the old ones though.
Ryan

[CobraII76]

Start with the head question most aftermarket heads and all 351W heads have 1/2 inch holes for the head bolts all 289-302's have 7/16 head bolt holes. ARP makes a bolt set that uses 7/16 bolts with built in 1/2 washer to put aftermarket and 351 heads on the 289 302. Head gaskets intakes headers etc stay the same. So shop for your future engine build in the heads and use them on the 289 with the ARP bolts.
Next question got any idea where the timing on this thing is set? a lot of times when people install a performance cam they go full advance on the crank sprocket thinking it will get them more power and they tend to lose good low end and seat of the pants feel for higher revs that never make any power. I'd geta light on it and see where it's at and tune from there. Get me a carb list number off that holley and I'll check the jet size for you. you may want to go up one or two sizes could make alot of change in where the power comes in at. You could also try the old secondary trick of getting a small nut and bolt into the slot and making them open with the primarys to check the secondary function. I would start with timing and go from there.

[KiltedBanshees93GT]

Thanks for the info guys, no, I havent run the car at the track yet, I'm still getting the bugs and problems fixed before I really thrash the car. I do need the check the timing, but havent really had time to play with it lately.
CobraII:The carb is an 1850 I believe, but I'll doublecheck it, I can see what youre talking about as far as too much advance. The car has never seemed to have as much bottom end as it should. I'm going to start looking into the head idea.
I'll let you know when I get the timing checked out.
BTW, anyone have any suggestion as to what range converter would be best for the combo listed above?

J
Also, anyone have any guesstimates as to what my current hp should be, and what kind of gain I could get from a good set of heads?