Solve a bizarre mystery!

Joni · 07-09-2002, 11:14 AM

I am on my third 3.8l engine paid for and replaced by Ford. My current engine started running badly a couple of weeks ago -- and as recommended by the dealer I replaced 2 new injectors, an MAF, and cleaned my other injectors (I took it to a reliable and trustworthy mechanic for repairs and did NOT leave it with the dealer who was going to charge me over $1000.)

Still, the car runs very badly, and after trying everything they could think of, new wires, new plugs, etc... my mechanic personally took the car to a different Ford dealership who ALSO do not know what the problem is, but are telling us that we must replace the Harmonic Balancer or they won't be able to determine what IS wrong. So this is another $400 for something that won't fix my problem, but has to be repaired before we can tell what the problem is?

I'm mystified. And mad. Any insight ore helpful logic would be appreciated.

Sigh.

Thanks,
Joni

Former86Camaro · 07-10-2002, 07:35 AM

What year is the car? Is it under warranty? It could fall underthe lemon law...

Joni · 07-10-2002, 08:49 AM

The engine is under warranty and I'm checking into whether the labor is also under warranty. The car is a '95.

... and the warranty will cover the engine, IF that is what the problem is. But no one seems to be able to *find* the problem, and no one knows *why* it is doing what it is doing.

:-(

Former86Camaro · 07-10-2002, 09:00 AM

In my 86 I had a similar problem. In the end the dealer had to hook a lap top to it and dive it around and let it run for awhile. They found the MAF voltage would drop at certain points in the RPM range when the car was certain temperatures. They also found a few other sensors with low voltage, that was just below acceptable readings. Now on a normal scan or test they passed. It was a pain in the butt....

GodStang · 07-10-2002, 05:37 PM

Harmonic balancer should only be about $150. What do you mean buy runs badly? If it is missing try the cam sensor. That is what was wrong with my 1994. just a thought.

PKRWUD · 07-11-2002, 05:18 AM

The harmonic balancer is a very important part of the engine. If it is damaged, you will not be able to set the ignition timing properly, and the engine will be unbalanced. An unbalanced engine will run "rough", and will feel like it has a terrible miss. Left uncorrected, it will also cause permenant damage to the engines internals. $400 is rediculous, though, and if the engine has any warranty left on it, the balancer should be covered. If it's not, have your mechanic verify that it is in fact bad, and have him replace it. Once replaced, have the ignition timing set again, and see if it runs better. If the balancer is in fact bad, replacing it will make a HUGE difference!

Good luck!

Take care,
-Chris

Joni · 07-11-2002, 09:03 AM

The harmonic balancer was replaced under warranty yesterday, and I'll keep you posted on what happens now.

The car still runs rough. By "missing" I mean this: It idles fine, when I accelerate it will only go about twenty miles an hour, even when it's floored. For awhile it *would* run at 50-60 mph but not without a very high rpm.

It also runs hot. By hot I don't mean overheating, but it often runs fairly close to that. The cooling fan was replaced under a recall last month.

To update: The air filter was left off the car the last time I had the oil changed. This probably caused the initial trouble and I've replaced the MAS, wires, and spark plugs. Two injectors were salvagable and two were totally replaced. The fuel pump went out while all this was being repaired so that has been replaced.

...the mystery continues. Keep the ideas coming! My mechanic is stumped!

Joni

Former86Camaro · 07-11-2002, 01:13 PM

I would look into wiring. You could have some wires shorting each other out or crossing over. If you know your plugs, module, wires are all good, I would look at other ignition items plus fuel. What does the code scanner say is up with it?

Joni · 07-11-2002, 01:26 PM

Now they're leaning toward emissions control...

GodStang · 07-12-2002, 10:21 PM

My 1994 v6 had this problem. I would drive along and everything was normal all of a sudden it would start have a spasum. The whole car would start jerking, and than just stop and run fine. We replace the CAM sensor and it ran great. As far as over heating mine did that too. I changed the therostat and no it runs very cool.

PKRWUD · 07-12-2002, 11:03 PM

Sure sounds alot like a clogged cat.

Have your tech check the engine vacuum over a 10 minute period at idle. If the gauge drops, the exhaust is restricted, probably at the cat(s).

Take care,
-Chris

Joni · 07-15-2002, 09:03 AM

The cat was our first thought, and it was the first reading the diagnostic gave us too, but no, that wasn't it.

Turns out the harmonic balancer, once it was replaced, proved to be the culprit that kept getting in the way of accurate readings, which once we got them sorted out, had to do with spark plugs and wiring.

We fixed it all up. She now runs like a "raped ape."

but, what do I now do about the paint on one side that chipped off as soon as I got it home? Big chunk, too. Looks like a portion of the car wasn't primed and there is bubbling going on under my paint!

I'd like to get this fixed up too, but what can I do to prevent it from worsening in the meantime?

07-09-2002, 11:14 AM	#1
Joni Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 7	Solve a bizarre mystery! I am on my third 3.8l engine paid for and replaced by Ford. My current engine started running badly a couple of weeks ago -- and as recommended by the dealer I replaced 2 new injectors, an MAF, and cleaned my other injectors (I took it to a reliable and trustworthy mechanic for repairs and did NOT leave it with the dealer who was going to charge me over $1000.) Still, the car runs very badly, and after trying everything they could think of, new wires, new plugs, etc... my mechanic personally took the car to a different Ford dealership who ALSO do not know what the problem is, but are telling us that we must replace the Harmonic Balancer or they won't be able to determine what IS wrong. So this is another $400 for something that won't fix my problem, but has to be repaired before we can tell what the problem is? I'm mystified. And mad. Any insight ore helpful logic would be appreciated. Sigh. Thanks, Joni

07-10-2002, 08:49 AM	#3
Joni Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 7	Under warranty The engine is under warranty and I'm checking into whether the labor is also under warranty. The car is a '95. ... and the warranty will cover the engine, IF that is what the problem is. But no one seems to be able to find the problem, and no one knows why it is doing what it is doing. :-(

07-10-2002, 05:37 PM	#5
GodStang College Stanger Join Date: May 1999 Location: Aiken,south carolina, usa Posts: 1,097	Harmonic balancer should only be about $150. What do you mean buy runs badly? If it is missing try the cam sensor. That is what was wrong with my 1994. just a thought. __________________ 2003 Sonic Blue Cobra

07-11-2002, 05:18 AM	#6
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	The harmonic balancer is a very important part of the engine. If it is damaged, you will not be able to set the ignition timing properly, and the engine will be unbalanced. An unbalanced engine will run "rough", and will feel like it has a terrible miss. Left uncorrected, it will also cause permenant damage to the engines internals. $400 is rediculous, though, and if the engine has any warranty left on it, the balancer should be covered. If it's not, have your mechanic verify that it is in fact bad, and have him replace it. Once replaced, have the ignition timing set again, and see if it runs better. If the balancer is in fact bad, replacing it will make a HUGE difference! Good luck! Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

07-11-2002, 09:03 AM	#7
Joni Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 7	update The harmonic balancer was replaced under warranty yesterday, and I'll keep you posted on what happens now. The car still runs rough. By "missing" I mean this: It idles fine, when I accelerate it will only go about twenty miles an hour, even when it's floored. For awhile it would run at 50-60 mph but not without a very high rpm. It also runs hot. By hot I don't mean overheating, but it often runs fairly close to that. The cooling fan was replaced under a recall last month. To update: The air filter was left off the car the last time I had the oil changed. This probably caused the initial trouble and I've replaced the MAS, wires, and spark plugs. Two injectors were salvagable and two were totally replaced. The fuel pump went out while all this was being repaired so that has been replaced. ...the mystery continues. Keep the ideas coming! My mechanic is stumped! Joni

07-10-2002, 07:35 AM	#2
Former86Camaro Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Orlando,Fl Posts: 24	What year is the car? Is it under warranty? It could fall underthe lemon law...

07-10-2002, 09:00 AM	#4
Former86Camaro Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Orlando,Fl Posts: 24	In my 86 I had a similar problem. In the end the dealer had to hook a lap top to it and dive it around and let it run for awhile. They found the MAF voltage would drop at certain points in the RPM range when the car was certain temperatures. They also found a few other sensors with low voltage, that was just below acceptable readings. Now on a normal scan or test they passed. It was a pain in the butt....

07-11-2002, 01:13 PM	#8
Former86Camaro Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Orlando,Fl Posts: 24	I would look into wiring. You could have some wires shorting each other out or crossing over. If you know your plugs, module, wires are all good, I would look at other ignition items plus fuel. What does the code scanner say is up with it?

07-11-2002, 01:26 PM	#9
Joni Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 7	Now they're leaning toward emissions control...

07-12-2002, 10:21 PM	#10
GodStang College Stanger Join Date: May 1999 Location: Aiken,south carolina, usa Posts: 1,097	My 1994 v6 had this problem. I would drive along and everything was normal all of a sudden it would start have a spasum. The whole car would start jerking, and than just stop and run fine. We replace the CAM sensor and it ran great. As far as over heating mine did that too. I changed the therostat and no it runs very cool. __________________ 2003 Sonic Blue Cobra

07-12-2002, 11:03 PM	#11
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Sure sounds alot like a clogged cat. Have your tech check the engine vacuum over a 10 minute period at idle. If the gauge drops, the exhaust is restricted, probably at the cat(s). Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

07-15-2002, 09:03 AM	#12
Joni Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 7	The cat was our first thought, and it was the first reading the diagnostic gave us too, but no, that wasn't it. Turns out the harmonic balancer, once it was replaced, proved to be the culprit that kept getting in the way of accurate readings, which once we got them sorted out, had to do with spark plugs and wiring. We fixed it all up. She now runs like a "raped ape." but, what do I now do about the paint on one side that chipped off as soon as I got it home? Big chunk, too. Looks like a portion of the car wasn't primed and there is bubbling going on under my paint! I'd like to get this fixed up too, but what can I do to prevent it from worsening in the meantime?

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