New combo, anyone else running this??

rwhite65 · 01-14-2003, 04:00 PM

I have debated a long time on what to run in this car, my 302 is mild and just does not have the power off the line I would like..and since I like my automatic, mine is harder to launch then the guys with the standards. I have a 79 351 sitting in my shed (given to me). So here was the combo i decided on....kinda want everyone else's oipinion if you got time....especially if u run a 351W.
The car right now is a 74 302 (dished pistons---they suck for compressioin)--AOD, bauman shift kit (this rocks), and 4.10 posi in the rear. I have the mallery unilite dist (had problems with it in the past) and the pro master coil box by mallery. performer 289 edlebrock intake, with a holley 600. I put a set of 1970 289-302 heads (58cc chambers) on it with 1.90-1.60 valves in them. Crane roller rockers and a decent crane cam. Full length headers, custom bent, 2 1/4 exhaust.

I also completely restored the car. All original cali car, so I am not extremely interested in a screamer. But the comb I just described I bet would barely put up mid to high 14 second quarters (that may be wishfull thinking).

I am going to swap the 351w in with an edlebrock rpm, better carb, forged flat top pistons, good cam, and pocket port the heads on my 302, drill them for the 351, and swap them on. Probably pay a little money for a Precision Industry stahl conv.

Am i dreaming, or will the old girl be able to break into the 13's in the quarter. All ur opinions are apreciated, I hat e to spend money and be dissappointed with the results.
Ryan

The Deuce · 01-14-2003, 07:33 PM

I personally know a guy who runs in the 11's with a 302 in a 66 coupe. It's not what you run, its how you run it.

I couldn't really tell you what the motor's got internally, he won't give that info up. Stock c4, 4:11's and slicks is about the extent of what I can actually tell.

Take some time, research the combo, and keep talking about it. Heck, with those gears, a built 351 should get you into high 10's if you do it right.

rwhite65 · 01-14-2003, 09:01 PM

Well, part of this 302's (mine) problem is that it has fairly low compression, the heads need opened up, and the intake is so, so.

But, since I like to drive it to car shows, and just for enjoyment, it is not fun to have a 302 all hopped up that is proned to over heating, and the like. With the mildly built 351, I thought it would get my car moving fairly well and still be reliable and user friendly.
Ryan

gofastmercury · 01-16-2003, 02:08 AM

Both will work just fine. The 351w will have more bottom end torque, which is what you want. Its not a direct bolt in, but not bad, biggest problem will be headers(might work, but probaly not). Those 289 heads arn't the greatest, and thats probaly where the problem is. The rest seems fine to me. I don't like that unilite, had a few blow up on me and leave me stranded, I hate that.

My sugestion? Get some good heads. Try to get comp up to 9:1. Leave the rest alone. It should run in the 13's with 4.10's, oh, and get that converter too, just not too much, something like 2500ish should really help that low torque motor out. It will get really close to 12's with that stuff.

I ran a 11:1 302 in my Comet for awhile, torquer2, 650DP holley, 2500 stall c4, factory ported heads, 4.62 gears. It ran 13.8's with mufflers at a track that has typicaly 4-5 thousand feet of air.

hobgoblin351 · 01-16-2003, 01:16 PM

GoFast is right, It's The Heads! It's the Heads! lol There are planty of aftermarket castings out there. You can probably find an inexpensive set if you look around. Copm ratio, yeah 9.0 is cool you might bump it a little higher, but then you'll have to run super. And with the price of gas these days! I run 10.25/1 and dont have detonation, but it costs me almost $50 a tank! Dont ya just love living in ther northeast! What do you mean by a mild cam? Oh and hey how is the AOD working for ya? I'm looking at that as my next tranny. I need the overdrive on the highway.

rwhite65 · 01-16-2003, 02:18 PM

I still think the 351 is the answer, but I will agree the heads are choking the motor...but they have the 1.9-1.6 valves, 3 angle valve job...so what if I ported and polished these/little bowl work, shouldn't that open them up?? I am never going to probably get the compression way up on this 302, cause of those dished pistons.

I love my aod, I see a lot of guys rip on them, but with my bauman shift kit, the thing shifts hard and crisp. When I did the swap (c4-aod) about 4 years ago, I could find very little literature on it. Now there are a lot of aftermarket pieces out there that make it real nice and easy.

In my opinion, u got to go with a pair of shorty headers with this swap, I kept my longtubes (they are about to be replaced), but there was a lot of heating and bending to them so they would clear everything. Another big thing, is the aftermarket TV cable--this is a must, works so nice, takes a lot of headaches out of the swap. If you would like to know more hints on this, let me know, unfortunately when I did the swap, I did just about everything wrong the first time, then had to redo it to make it write.
Ryan

rwhite65 · 01-16-2003, 02:21 PM

somebody asked about the cam.....I wish I could remember the numbers right now, but basically when I put it in , it was a middle of the road cam to slightly higher poerformance for a car with an automatic. Nice cam, really woke the motor up, if u really want the specs, I can dig around the garage and find the cam card.
Ryan

hobgoblin351 · 01-16-2003, 08:55 PM

You're probably right to go with the 351W, to get the launches you want you'd have to redo the 302 anyway. New pistons and a bigger cam. (no the specs aren't necessary i get the idea)
As far as the AOD swap, I'll be dropping it into a 1970, I dont think I'll have a problem with room. I'm running a full set of headers now. Why is the AOD a big tranny? I'm running an FMX. I figure I'll need a new driveshaft, shifter with cable, and maybe a flywheel. What else?

rwhite65 · 01-17-2003, 12:48 AM

I think the 351w with a good set of heads will move the car nicely.

The AOD is bigger mainly in the oil pan area. The tranny holds more oil then most other trannies (ford), due to the OD. The reason the long tube headers give you so much problems, the collectors come right down to the oil pan area, and tend to get in the way of the tranny linkage. I got mine to clear, but it took a lot of torching, big bars...and the end result is a header collector about 2 inches off the ground and still so close to the linkage it makes it real fun to work on hooking the linkage up.

You are going to need the TV linkage, and another linkage to hook ur shifter up to the tranny. When I did the swap 4 years ago, there was nothing out there I could find. I know it is offered for 65 era mustang, but I would assume it should be for a 70. I used a B&M mega shifter, nice shifter, but lost the old look in the car.
The drive shaft will need to be shortened most likely (aod is longer), and they recommend using a t-5 yoke since it is stronger than others.
You can make ur own cross memeber, or by a nice custom made one.
My advice, go to www.windsorfox.com, they have all the pieces I just said, and they are worth all the money to keep from suffering a lot of the headaches I did when I first did the swap. They also have a fairly detailed explanation as to what exactly you will need to complete the swap. I f you buy one part, buy the TV cable ($90) they offer, makes the tranny shift exactly liek the tranny was designed to be in the car--AND it is The KEY piece to making the AOD last.
Ryan

rwhite65 · 01-17-2003, 12:56 AM

I checked the windsorfox website, and they do offer the parts for a 70, as for the AOD bolting up to a 351W, I think you need a 28.2 oz flexplate. Not sure what urs would have on it right now.
Ryan

gofastmercury · 01-17-2003, 02:10 AM

It will depend on how much money you are willing to spend, just like allways! If your going to raise the comp of the 302, you have to(should) rebuild it. The heads and comp are your biggest problem, but I run factory 70 castings(ported) on my 351w, it runs low 12's, so they can work. So, if your going to rebuild any way, just do a 351w, it won't cost that much more. And it will be a much better street motor. Just remember, it's only money.

rwhite65 · 01-17-2003, 06:16 PM

I read down at the bottom on the specs of ur car....what intake are u running on that? How high do u have ur compression jacked up too?
Ryan

rwhite65 · 01-17-2003, 06:17 PM

I just saw in the bottom of ur post, u say what intake u have

gofastmercury · 01-18-2003, 12:15 AM

At one time that link had all the info, then mustang works lost it, and I never had the time to redo it., Some day.

01-14-2003, 04:00 PM	#1
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	New combo, anyone else running this?? I have debated a long time on what to run in this car, my 302 is mild and just does not have the power off the line I would like..and since I like my automatic, mine is harder to launch then the guys with the standards. I have a 79 351 sitting in my shed (given to me). So here was the combo i decided on....kinda want everyone else's oipinion if you got time....especially if u run a 351W. The car right now is a 74 302 (dished pistons---they suck for compressioin)--AOD, bauman shift kit (this rocks), and 4.10 posi in the rear. I have the mallery unilite dist (had problems with it in the past) and the pro master coil box by mallery. performer 289 edlebrock intake, with a holley 600. I put a set of 1970 289-302 heads (58cc chambers) on it with 1.90-1.60 valves in them. Crane roller rockers and a decent crane cam. Full length headers, custom bent, 2 1/4 exhaust. I also completely restored the car. All original cali car, so I am not extremely interested in a screamer. But the comb I just described I bet would barely put up mid to high 14 second quarters (that may be wishfull thinking). I am going to swap the 351w in with an edlebrock rpm, better carb, forged flat top pistons, good cam, and pocket port the heads on my 302, drill them for the 351, and swap them on. Probably pay a little money for a Precision Industry stahl conv. Am i dreaming, or will the old girl be able to break into the 13's in the quarter. All ur opinions are apreciated, I hat e to spend money and be dissappointed with the results. Ryan __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

01-14-2003, 07:33 PM	#2
The Deuce Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 2,325	I personally know a guy who runs in the 11's with a 302 in a 66 coupe. It's not what you run, its how you run it. I couldn't really tell you what the motor's got internally, he won't give that info up. Stock c4, 4:11's and slicks is about the extent of what I can actually tell. Take some time, research the combo, and keep talking about it. Heck, with those gears, a built 351 should get you into high 10's if you do it right. __________________ 1997 Mustang GT "The Freak" - 13.80 @ 101.70, 2.07 60' 1995 Honda VFR750 - not much @ really fast (actual data pending.) 1964.5 Mustang 289 Rice Haters Club Member #13

01-14-2003, 09:01 PM	#3
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	further info Well, part of this 302's (mine) problem is that it has fairly low compression, the heads need opened up, and the intake is so, so. But, since I like to drive it to car shows, and just for enjoyment, it is not fun to have a 302 all hopped up that is proned to over heating, and the like. With the mildly built 351, I thought it would get my car moving fairly well and still be reliable and user friendly. Ryan __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

01-16-2003, 02:08 AM	#4
gofastmercury Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: calgary alberta canada Posts: 366	Both will work just fine. The 351w will have more bottom end torque, which is what you want. Its not a direct bolt in, but not bad, biggest problem will be headers(might work, but probaly not). Those 289 heads arn't the greatest, and thats probaly where the problem is. The rest seems fine to me. I don't like that unilite, had a few blow up on me and leave me stranded, I hate that. My sugestion? Get some good heads. Try to get comp up to 9:1. Leave the rest alone. It should run in the 13's with 4.10's, oh, and get that converter too, just not too much, something like 2500ish should really help that low torque motor out. It will get really close to 12's with that stuff. I ran a 11:1 302 in my Comet for awhile, torquer2, 650DP holley, 2500 stall c4, factory ported heads, 4.62 gears. It ran 13.8's with mufflers at a track that has typicaly 4-5 thousand feet of air. __________________ 93LXcopcarSOLD14.3@96 @ 4500ft 2.02 60ft on street tires. my 67 ranchero NOT A 390 ANY MORE! 460! 3.70's cast manifolds, comp cams 262H, performer, 750DP 100K out of 79 F250 NEW(oct20/02)14.58@95mph 2.3 60 ft corrects to:13.86@100 66 merc comet351w, isky roller 600 lift 268/260@.050, vic jr. 700DP, 5000stall, 4.56's c-4, 3400lbs with driver 12.3@110 @ 4000ft 1.69 60 ft corrects to:11.69@115

01-16-2003, 01:16 PM	#5
hobgoblin351 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 245	GoFast is right, It's The Heads! It's the Heads! lol There are planty of aftermarket castings out there. You can probably find an inexpensive set if you look around. Copm ratio, yeah 9.0 is cool you might bump it a little higher, but then you'll have to run super. And with the price of gas these days! I run 10.25/1 and dont have detonation, but it costs me almost $50 a tank! Dont ya just love living in ther northeast! What do you mean by a mild cam? Oh and hey how is the AOD working for ya? I'm looking at that as my next tranny. I need the overdrive on the highway. __________________ 1970 Stang Conv: en:Boss351 (balanced/blueprinted) mech cam(240*@.050/.540 lift) Scrw in studs/comp cams rllr rkr Mldn valves 2.19in 1.71ex ported polished cc'd hrdnd ex Keith Black FT pistons(10.25/1) Weiand Excellorator manifold Holley700 DP mech 2nds MSD 6 box and Dis Headers/2 1/2 inch duels tr: modified FMX re:9-inch/3.89 limited slip

01-16-2003, 02:18 PM	#6
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	Looks like the heads got to go I still think the 351 is the answer, but I will agree the heads are choking the motor...but they have the 1.9-1.6 valves, 3 angle valve job...so what if I ported and polished these/little bowl work, shouldn't that open them up?? I am never going to probably get the compression way up on this 302, cause of those dished pistons. I love my aod, I see a lot of guys rip on them, but with my bauman shift kit, the thing shifts hard and crisp. When I did the swap (c4-aod) about 4 years ago, I could find very little literature on it. Now there are a lot of aftermarket pieces out there that make it real nice and easy. In my opinion, u got to go with a pair of shorty headers with this swap, I kept my longtubes (they are about to be replaced), but there was a lot of heating and bending to them so they would clear everything. Another big thing, is the aftermarket TV cable--this is a must, works so nice, takes a lot of headaches out of the swap. If you would like to know more hints on this, let me know, unfortunately when I did the swap, I did just about everything wrong the first time, then had to redo it to make it write. Ryan __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

01-16-2003, 02:21 PM	#7
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	about the cam somebody asked about the cam.....I wish I could remember the numbers right now, but basically when I put it in , it was a middle of the road cam to slightly higher poerformance for a car with an automatic. Nice cam, really woke the motor up, if u really want the specs, I can dig around the garage and find the cam card. Ryan __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

01-16-2003, 08:55 PM	#8
hobgoblin351 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 245	You're probably right to go with the 351W, to get the launches you want you'd have to redo the 302 anyway. New pistons and a bigger cam. (no the specs aren't necessary i get the idea) As far as the AOD swap, I'll be dropping it into a 1970, I dont think I'll have a problem with room. I'm running a full set of headers now. Why is the AOD a big tranny? I'm running an FMX. I figure I'll need a new driveshaft, shifter with cable, and maybe a flywheel. What else? __________________ 1970 Stang Conv: en:Boss351 (balanced/blueprinted) mech cam(240*@.050/.540 lift) Scrw in studs/comp cams rllr rkr Mldn valves 2.19in 1.71ex ported polished cc'd hrdnd ex Keith Black FT pistons(10.25/1) Weiand Excellorator manifold Holley700 DP mech 2nds MSD 6 box and Dis Headers/2 1/2 inch duels tr: modified FMX re:9-inch/3.89 limited slip

01-17-2003, 12:48 AM	#9
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	little on my combo, more on the AOD I think the 351w with a good set of heads will move the car nicely. The AOD is bigger mainly in the oil pan area. The tranny holds more oil then most other trannies (ford), due to the OD. The reason the long tube headers give you so much problems, the collectors come right down to the oil pan area, and tend to get in the way of the tranny linkage. I got mine to clear, but it took a lot of torching, big bars...and the end result is a header collector about 2 inches off the ground and still so close to the linkage it makes it real fun to work on hooking the linkage up. You are going to need the TV linkage, and another linkage to hook ur shifter up to the tranny. When I did the swap 4 years ago, there was nothing out there I could find. I know it is offered for 65 era mustang, but I would assume it should be for a 70. I used a B&M mega shifter, nice shifter, but lost the old look in the car. The drive shaft will need to be shortened most likely (aod is longer), and they recommend using a t-5 yoke since it is stronger than others. You can make ur own cross memeber, or by a nice custom made one. My advice, go to www.windsorfox.com, they have all the pieces I just said, and they are worth all the money to keep from suffering a lot of the headaches I did when I first did the swap. They also have a fairly detailed explanation as to what exactly you will need to complete the swap. I f you buy one part, buy the TV cable ($90) they offer, makes the tranny shift exactly liek the tranny was designed to be in the car--AND it is The KEY piece to making the AOD last. Ryan __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

01-17-2003, 12:56 AM	#10
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	a 70 mustang I checked the windsorfox website, and they do offer the parts for a 70, as for the AOD bolting up to a 351W, I think you need a 28.2 oz flexplate. Not sure what urs would have on it right now. Ryan __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

01-17-2003, 02:10 AM	#11
gofastmercury Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: calgary alberta canada Posts: 366	It will depend on how much money you are willing to spend, just like allways! If your going to raise the comp of the 302, you have to(should) rebuild it. The heads and comp are your biggest problem, but I run factory 70 castings(ported) on my 351w, it runs low 12's, so they can work. So, if your going to rebuild any way, just do a 351w, it won't cost that much more. And it will be a much better street motor. Just remember, it's only money. __________________ 93LXcopcarSOLD14.3@96 @ 4500ft 2.02 60ft on street tires. my 67 ranchero NOT A 390 ANY MORE! 460! 3.70's cast manifolds, comp cams 262H, performer, 750DP 100K out of 79 F250 NEW(oct20/02)14.58@95mph 2.3 60 ft corrects to:13.86@100 66 merc comet351w, isky roller 600 lift 268/260@.050, vic jr. 700DP, 5000stall, 4.56's c-4, 3400lbs with driver 12.3@110 @ 4000ft 1.69 60 ft corrects to:11.69@115

01-17-2003, 06:16 PM	#12
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	more on ur combo - gofastmercury I read down at the bottom on the specs of ur car....what intake are u running on that? How high do u have ur compression jacked up too? Ryan __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

01-17-2003, 06:17 PM	#13
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	nevermind I just saw in the bottom of ur post, u say what intake u have __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

01-18-2003, 12:15 AM	#14
gofastmercury Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: calgary alberta canada Posts: 366	At one time that link had all the info, then mustang works lost it, and I never had the time to redo it., Some day. __________________ 93LXcopcarSOLD14.3@96 @ 4500ft 2.02 60ft on street tires. my 67 ranchero NOT A 390 ANY MORE! 460! 3.70's cast manifolds, comp cams 262H, performer, 750DP 100K out of 79 F250 NEW(oct20/02)14.58@95mph 2.3 60 ft corrects to:13.86@100 66 merc comet351w, isky roller 600 lift 268/260@.050, vic jr. 700DP, 5000stall, 4.56's c-4, 3400lbs with driver 12.3@110 @ 4000ft 1.69 60 ft corrects to:11.69@115

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