new guy needs help already

H'YAMULE · 11-16-2000, 10:53 AM

Hello all, I just got registered on this site and I could already use some help. In April I bought a 65 coupe w/302. did some checking and the car originally was a 200, wish I knew that before I bought it, althought I still would have. Anyway, how do I upgrade to support the extra weight,etc. of the 302? Thanks for any input.

11-16-2000, 11:49 AM

It may already be upgraded. Does the car have 4 or 5 lug hubs. 6cyl cars ca,e w/4lug and v8's w/5 lug. You may need stiffer springs if the car does not handle well.

------------------
67 Fastback - Arctic White Pearl paint
351W 415 hp, Trick Flow Alum. Heads, C-4 Trans, 3.55 gears, Front Disc Brakes, 1-1/8" Fr. 3/4" rear sway bars.

Mercury · 11-16-2000, 12:17 PM

Hello Hyamyule ( I hope I spelled it right ). Why wouldnt you of bought the car if you knew the 302 wasnt the original engine? The 302's didnt start finding there way into mustangs until late in the 67 production year. Before then it was just the 289 in 65 and 66. In early 65, also know as 64 1/2 coupes, there was an option, 260 v8, or 289.

Look on the vin#, the 5th digit should be a T for a 200 inline six, or if its early 65, U for 170 inline six.

Either way enjoy your stang, shouldnt be to hard with a 302 in it.

. I've been restoring these cars, and working on my 289 coupe for a while, so if you have any questions feel free to ask. If I cant answer it I'm sure they'll be some one else who can.

------------------
64 1/2 Red Mustang Coupe. 289, C4, 3:1 rear gear. Mallory duel point. Ported & Polished 65 heads shaved .01 with 351 windsor valves, high side of 10.5:1 comp, 1.7:1 sled rockers, blue wolverine lumpy cam, autolite 4100 Hipo 4 barrel. And to many others to list

2000 Perf Red Mustang GT. 5spd.

64 1/2 red 6cyl coupe. Auto. project car.

H'YAMULE · 11-16-2000, 02:48 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tom351:
[B]It may already be upgraded. Does the car have 4 or 5 lug hubs. 6cyl cars ca,e w/4lug and v8's w/5 lug. You may need stiffer springs if the car does not handle well.

Thanks Tom351, the wheels have 4 lug hubs. The car handles good but do the hubs need to be upgraded to support the engine? Also, can I just change the hubs/spindles or do I need to replace the whole axle?

H'YAMULE · 11-16-2000, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mercury:
Hello Hyamyule ( I hope I spelled it right ). Why wouldnt you of bought the car if you knew the 302 wasnt the original engine? The 302's didnt start finding there way into mustangs until late in the 67 production year. Before then it was just the 289 in 65 and 66. In early 65, also know as 64 1/2 coupes, there was an option, 260 v8, or 289.

Look on the vin#, the 5th digit should be a T for a 200 inline six, or if its early 65, U for 170 inline six.

Either way enjoy your stang, shouldnt be to hard with a 302 in it. . I've been restoring these cars, and working on my 289 coupe for a while, so if you have any questions feel free to ask. If I cant answer it I'm sure they'll be some one else who can.

Thanks Mercury, I still would have bought it, I've always wanted a classic mustang. I just didnt know how much of a pain in the butt it would be to change all the suspension and all to support the larger engine. Anyway I enjoy tinkering around with it, but I'm kinda on a budget right now so I can't put too much $ into it now. How can I tell what year the engine is if they didnt get put into mustangs until 67? Thanks.

11-16-2000, 03:26 PM

The 4 lugs should be fine even with the V-8.
I know that 86-93 5.0 mustangs have 4 lug hubs. If you do change them, I am almost sure that the front spindles would need to be changes. I do not know about the rear axles though. The swap would not be super cheap because you would need new drums and wheels. If you look on the engine block behind the starter, there should be a # cast into the block. You should be able to read it with a flashlight the first letter stands for the decade the block was cast in C=1960's D=1970's E=1980's. The second digit is the year. Example C8 = 1968 , D4 = 1974.
Hope this info helps.

------------------
67 Fastback - Arctic White Pearl paint
351W 415 hp, Trick Flow Alum. Heads, C-4 Trans, 3.55 gears, Front Disc Brakes, 1-1/8" Fr. 3/4" rear sway bars.

Shaggy · 11-16-2000, 04:05 PM

I have to disagree with Tom on the 4 lug issue but from a different stand point it is not the number of lugs that is the problem but the fact that the 4 lug spindles are to thin to support a 6cyl (I have seen snapped ones from 6 cyl cars)much less a V-8. I would suggest finding a set of spindles with brakes from a junkyard whether they are the drum or disc would be dependent upon your choice but if you get the discs use the later single piston caliper style you get better brakes than the origanal 4 piston calipers...sounds odd to say a single piston is better than a 4 piston but the 4 pistons were prone to sticking and had a slightly smaller rotor.

11-16-2000, 04:20 PM

Thank you for correcting me shaggy. I did not know that the spindles were weaker for 4 lug.

------------------
67 Fastback - Arctic White Pearl paint
351W 415 hp, Trick Flow Alum. Heads, C-4 Trans, 3.55 gears, Front Disc Brakes, 1-1/8" Fr. 3/4" rear sway bars.

Rev · 11-16-2000, 04:58 PM

Aren't the rear axles smaller on 6 cyl. models? Someting like 7 1/2" ringear. I've heard these won't hold up to much V-8 abuse. Just anoyher thought.

Rev

------------------
'66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph
1/4 mi.

H'YAMULE · 11-16-2000, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shaggy:
I have to disagree with Tom on the 4 lug issue but from a different stand point it is not the number of lugs that is the problem but the fact that the 4 lug spindles are to thin to support a 6cyl (I have seen snapped ones from 6 cyl cars)much less a V-8. I would suggest finding a set of spindles with brakes from a junkyard whether they are the drum or disc would be dependent upon your choice but if you get the discs use the later single piston caliper style you get better brakes than the origanal 4 piston calipers...sounds odd to say a single piston is better than a 4 piston but the 4 pistons were prone to sticking and had a slightly smaller rotor.

H'YAMULE · 11-16-2000, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shaggy:
I have to disagree with Tom on the 4 lug issue but from a different stand point it is not the number of lugs that is the problem but the fact that the 4 lug spindles are to thin to support a 6cyl (I have seen snapped ones from 6 cyl cars)much less a V-8. I would suggest finding a set of spindles with brakes from a junkyard whether they are the drum or disc would be dependent upon your choice but if you get the discs use the later single piston caliper style you get better brakes than the origanal 4 piston calipers...sounds odd to say a single piston is better than a 4 piston but the 4 pistons were prone to sticking and had a slightly smaller rotor.

Thanks for the info Shaggy, the only mustang I've seen in a junk yard here in town was sold off before I could get my hands on any of its parts. Not much selection in Montana (Billings anyway). Do you know where Willis is? my folks live there and i'll be down that way in March. Thanks again.

Shaggy · 11-16-2000, 06:28 PM

If you meen Willis TX yes there is a body shop up there I use. It is way on the Northside of town...about an hour to the good junkyards here. When you come down in march give me an E-mail and we will see about hooking up one day get you to some "good" junkyards and if it is wed,fri,sat or sun maybe go the quickest track in america(Houston Raceway Park). The rears were an 8 inch yes they have "weak" axles but stay off the slicks and don't make tremondous HP and they will last for a decent amount of time.

H'YAMULE · 11-16-2000, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shaggy:
If you meen Willis TX yes there is a body shop up there I use. It is way on the Northside of town...about an hour to the good junkyards here. When you come down in march give me an E-mail and we will see about hooking up one day get you to some "good" junkyards and if it is wed,fri,sat or sun maybe go the quickest track in america(Houston Raceway Park). The rears were an 8 inch yes they have "weak" axles but stay off the slicks and don't make tremondous HP and they will last for a decent amount of time.

Sounds good, i dont jnbow yet when i'll be down there but i'll let you know. thanks

Jaydee · 11-16-2000, 09:31 PM

The factory rear axel on all 6 cyl Mustangs between 1965 and 1970 was a 7.5" salisbury unit. This axel was used in the original Falcon in 1960 and trying to put any more than 180hp or so to this thing on a regular basis, will end up with a call to AAA for a ride home.

gp001 · 11-16-2000, 11:44 PM

I believe once you have changed to the V8 (5 lug) spindles you will also have to change the steering linkage.

------------------
347, 279/284 .493/.510, TFS TW, Stealth, 750, Flowtech hdrs, Dr. Gas X, 2 Chmbr Flowmaster, MSD 6AL-Dist.& SS coil, Art Carr C-4, Currie 9" w/3.55, alum Drv Shft, 4 wheel power disc
In a 66 coupe

Shaggy · 11-17-2000, 11:05 AM

He will have to change to outer Tie rod ends everything can stay the same...The only time you need to change everything is if you are doing a manual to power steering conversion.

gp001 · 11-17-2000, 11:31 PM

Thanks for the clarification Shaggy. I just remembered when I did this conversion I chaged the all the pieces. I couldn't remember if I changed them because I "HAD" to , or just because I "WANTED" the stronger V8 pieces in.

------------------
347, 279/284 .493/.510, TFS TW, Stealth, 750, Flowtech hdrs, Dr. Gas X, 2 Chmbr Flowmaster, MSD 6AL-Dist.& SS coil, Art Carr C-4, Currie 9" w/3.55, alum Drv Shft, 4 wheel power disc
In a 66 coupe

rtower · 02-19-2001, 10:55 PM

If you still are not sure about the suspension, you might want to rebuild the front suspension anyways to aviod problems. Take care to get the correct coil spring compressor to do the job. Go to www.p-s-t.com. You will find a nice selection of polygraphite suspension kits there.

COBRA66 · 02-20-2001, 05:12 AM

Having done the 6 to 8 project on my 66'. Your main concern is going to be your rear end. The little 7.5 is weak and spilling that all over the pavement wont take very long. Like every one has said, junkyard is the way to go for that. To uprade your front end, give California Mustangs a call( I will have to get back to you on their phone #) The have a really nice package deal that will give you the spindles, rotors, calipers, the whole ball of wax for about $600 or so. That is another thing, your going to want to upgrade your brakes to handle all the wieght your car now has. 6cyl cars don't stop all that well with the little engines in them to begin with. Good luck, and have fun

Ray Hill · 02-20-2001, 02:16 PM

H'YAMULE,

I have a complete V8 powersteering setup for sell. I'll even throw in the spindles/brakes (5 lug). I would like $450 for everything. I took this stuff of my car in early january.

Ray Hill
Milspecsurplus@yahoo.com

The parts that I have are:

Power steering pump
pump mounting brackets
waterpump pully
crank pully (this one has 3 pullies, water pump, powersteering, and ac)
hoses
powersteering control valve
drag link ( aka. center link)
inner tie rod ends (L & R)
outer tie rod ends (L & R)
tie rod adjusting sleeve (L & R)
power steering gear box 16:1 (with pitman arm) (this is required to be used in place of the box you have because the ps one is fewer turns stop to stop than the one on a manual steering car)

11-16-2000, 10:53 AM	#1
H'YAMULE Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Willis, Texas Posts: 20	new guy needs help already Hello all, I just got registered on this site and I could already use some help. In April I bought a 65 coupe w/302. did some checking and the car originally was a 200, wish I knew that before I bought it, althought I still would have. Anyway, how do I upgrade to support the extra weight,etc. of the 302? Thanks for any input.

11-16-2000, 11:49 AM	#2
tom351 Guest Posts: n/a	It may already be upgraded. Does the car have 4 or 5 lug hubs. 6cyl cars ca,e w/4lug and v8's w/5 lug. You may need stiffer springs if the car does not handle well. ------------------ 67 Fastback - Arctic White Pearl paint 351W 415 hp, Trick Flow Alum. Heads, C-4 Trans, 3.55 gears, Front Disc Brakes, 1-1/8" Fr. 3/4" rear sway bars.

11-16-2000, 12:17 PM	#3
Mercury The Redneck James Bond Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Fayetteville NC Posts: 1,707	Hello Hyamyule ( I hope I spelled it right ). Why wouldnt you of bought the car if you knew the 302 wasnt the original engine? The 302's didnt start finding there way into mustangs until late in the 67 production year. Before then it was just the 289 in 65 and 66. In early 65, also know as 64 1/2 coupes, there was an option, 260 v8, or 289. Look on the vin#, the 5th digit should be a T for a 200 inline six, or if its early 65, U for 170 inline six. Either way enjoy your stang, shouldnt be to hard with a 302 in it. . I've been restoring these cars, and working on my 289 coupe for a while, so if you have any questions feel free to ask. If I cant answer it I'm sure they'll be some one else who can. ------------------ 64 1/2 Red Mustang Coupe. 289, C4, 3:1 rear gear. Mallory duel point. Ported & Polished 65 heads shaved .01 with 351 windsor valves, high side of 10.5:1 comp, 1.7:1 sled rockers, blue wolverine lumpy cam, autolite 4100 Hipo 4 barrel. And to many others to list 2000 Perf Red Mustang GT. 5spd. 64 1/2 red 6cyl coupe. Auto. project car.

11-16-2000, 02:48 PM	#4
H'YAMULE Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Willis, Texas Posts: 20	[QUOTE]Originally posted by tom351: [B]It may already be upgraded. Does the car have 4 or 5 lug hubs. 6cyl cars ca,e w/4lug and v8's w/5 lug. You may need stiffer springs if the car does not handle well. Thanks Tom351, the wheels have 4 lug hubs. The car handles good but do the hubs need to be upgraded to support the engine? Also, can I just change the hubs/spindles or do I need to replace the whole axle?

11-16-2000, 03:26 PM	#6
tom351 Guest Posts: n/a	The 4 lugs should be fine even with the V-8. I know that 86-93 5.0 mustangs have 4 lug hubs. If you do change them, I am almost sure that the front spindles would need to be changes. I do not know about the rear axles though. The swap would not be super cheap because you would need new drums and wheels. If you look on the engine block behind the starter, there should be a # cast into the block. You should be able to read it with a flashlight the first letter stands for the decade the block was cast in C=1960's D=1970's E=1980's. The second digit is the year. Example C8 = 1968 , D4 = 1974. Hope this info helps. ------------------ 67 Fastback - Arctic White Pearl paint 351W 415 hp, Trick Flow Alum. Heads, C-4 Trans, 3.55 gears, Front Disc Brakes, 1-1/8" Fr. 3/4" rear sway bars.

11-16-2000, 04:05 PM	#7
Shaggy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Houston,TX Posts: 466	I have to disagree with Tom on the 4 lug issue but from a different stand point it is not the number of lugs that is the problem but the fact that the 4 lug spindles are to thin to support a 6cyl (I have seen snapped ones from 6 cyl cars)much less a V-8. I would suggest finding a set of spindles with brakes from a junkyard whether they are the drum or disc would be dependent upon your choice but if you get the discs use the later single piston caliper style you get better brakes than the origanal 4 piston calipers...sounds odd to say a single piston is better than a 4 piston but the 4 pistons were prone to sticking and had a slightly smaller rotor.

11-16-2000, 04:20 PM	#8
tom351 Guest Posts: n/a	Thank you for correcting me shaggy. I did not know that the spindles were weaker for 4 lug. ------------------ 67 Fastback - Arctic White Pearl paint 351W 415 hp, Trick Flow Alum. Heads, C-4 Trans, 3.55 gears, Front Disc Brakes, 1-1/8" Fr. 3/4" rear sway bars.

11-16-2000, 04:58 PM	#9
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	Aren't the rear axles smaller on 6 cyl. models? Someting like 7 1/2" ringear. I've heard these won't hold up to much V-8 abuse. Just anoyher thought. Rev ------------------ '66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph 1/4 mi.

11-16-2000, 06:28 PM	#12
Shaggy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Houston,TX Posts: 466	If you meen Willis TX yes there is a body shop up there I use. It is way on the Northside of town...about an hour to the good junkyards here. When you come down in march give me an E-mail and we will see about hooking up one day get you to some "good" junkyards and if it is wed,fri,sat or sun maybe go the quickest track in america(Houston Raceway Park). The rears were an 8 inch yes they have "weak" axles but stay off the slicks and don't make tremondous HP and they will last for a decent amount of time.

11-16-2000, 09:31 PM	#14
Jaydee Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Conn. Posts: 220	The factory rear axel on all 6 cyl Mustangs between 1965 and 1970 was a 7.5" salisbury unit. This axel was used in the original Falcon in 1960 and trying to put any more than 180hp or so to this thing on a regular basis, will end up with a call to AAA for a ride home.

11-16-2000, 11:44 PM	#15
gp001 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 244	I believe once you have changed to the V8 (5 lug) spindles you will also have to change the steering linkage. ------------------ 347, 279/284 .493/.510, TFS TW, Stealth, 750, Flowtech hdrs, Dr. Gas X, 2 Chmbr Flowmaster, MSD 6AL-Dist.& SS coil, Art Carr C-4, Currie 9" w/3.55, alum Drv Shft, 4 wheel power disc In a 66 coupe

11-17-2000, 11:05 AM	#16
Shaggy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Houston,TX Posts: 466	He will have to change to outer Tie rod ends everything can stay the same...The only time you need to change everything is if you are doing a manual to power steering conversion.

11-17-2000, 11:31 PM	#17
gp001 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 244	Thanks for the clarification Shaggy. I just remembered when I did this conversion I chaged the all the pieces. I couldn't remember if I changed them because I "HAD" to , or just because I "WANTED" the stronger V8 pieces in. ------------------ 347, 279/284 .493/.510, TFS TW, Stealth, 750, Flowtech hdrs, Dr. Gas X, 2 Chmbr Flowmaster, MSD 6AL-Dist.& SS coil, Art Carr C-4, Currie 9" w/3.55, alum Drv Shft, 4 wheel power disc In a 66 coupe

02-19-2001, 10:55 PM	#18
rtower Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Hawthorne, California, USA Posts: 5	If you still are not sure about the suspension, you might want to rebuild the front suspension anyways to aviod problems. Take care to get the correct coil spring compressor to do the job. Go to www.p-s-t.com. You will find a nice selection of polygraphite suspension kits there.

02-20-2001, 05:12 AM	#19
COBRA66 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Central Valley, Ca Posts: 58	Having done the 6 to 8 project on my 66'. Your main concern is going to be your rear end. The little 7.5 is weak and spilling that all over the pavement wont take very long. Like every one has said, junkyard is the way to go for that. To uprade your front end, give California Mustangs a call( I will have to get back to you on their phone #) The have a really nice package deal that will give you the spindles, rotors, calipers, the whole ball of wax for about $600 or so. That is another thing, your going to want to upgrade your brakes to handle all the wieght your car now has. 6cyl cars don't stop all that well with the little engines in them to begin with. Good luck, and have fun

02-20-2001, 02:16 PM	#20
Ray Hill Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Turlock, CA Posts: 4	H'YAMULE, I have a complete V8 powersteering setup for sell. I'll even throw in the spindles/brakes (5 lug). I would like $450 for everything. I took this stuff of my car in early january. Ray Hill Milspecsurplus@yahoo.com The parts that I have are: Power steering pump pump mounting brackets waterpump pully crank pully (this one has 3 pullies, water pump, powersteering, and ac) hoses powersteering control valve drag link ( aka. center link) inner tie rod ends (L & R) outer tie rod ends (L & R) tie rod adjusting sleeve (L & R) power steering gear box 16:1 (with pitman arm) (this is required to be used in place of the box you have because the ps one is fewer turns stop to stop than the one on a manual steering car)