Which One Would You Use And Why !

Mach1 Cobra Jet · 03-15-2002, 02:05 PM

Ask me about a MOPAR and I can answer almost any question; but, I am new to the Ford scene. I am restoring my 69 Mach1. It was a 351W, long gone engine. I now have a choice of either using a 1970 351C or a 74 390. Which one can I get the most punch for the buck from and which would be the easiest and less expensive to swap into my Mustang. I would like to do a 428, but that has to wait for a while yet. I am looking at strickly street, but a good stong performer and often driven. I have a friend who knows Fords inside and out and has build some beautys and some very fast cars. He recommends the 351C. What do you think and I welcome any suggested modifications and any other ideas. Also would be interested in part sources. I am still looking for a Top Loader 4 Speed and a 3:50-1 center section for a 9" 28 spline rear. Would prefer posi-unit.

Thanks, David

PKRWUD · 03-15-2002, 04:37 PM

I go with the 351 Cleveland, but that's just me. I'm pinched for time, but I'll explain myself later.

BTW, I don't mind you borrowing my 440 6-pak 'cuda, but I expect you to have back in my garage by tomorrow night. Washed.

Take care,
-Chris

mean81GT · 03-15-2002, 04:38 PM

the 390 isn't really considered a performance engine to me, there are very little parts available for it, and the things for the 351 are going to be cheaper. you can build a 428 out of a 390, and that rebuild kit (no heads, just crank, rods, pistons, rings, all bearings) is 1800 out of PAW. the heads are another story, they i think are 1300 out of summit (428 CJ aluminum)

as far as parts, i have found National Parts Deport, Virginia Mustangs, and Mustangs Unlimited to eb the top three for what i have needed.

Rev · 03-15-2002, 05:45 PM

You did say "or any other ideas". I think you would get more "bang for the buck" with a 351 Windsor engine, maybe even stroked. Much lighter than the 390 FE block. 351 Cleavland parts are sometimes hard to find and might demand premium prices. 351W hop up parts are plentiful and cheap. Just another idea, check with your Ford friend to see if he agrees?

Rev

69fastback · 03-15-2002, 06:10 PM

aww you don't have to go through summit to get CJ heads I got a couple pairs in my garage. I still would go with the 351C more room to work on the motor. My car is very tight for space and a real pain to work on. Trust me you don't want a 390.

agawam · 03-20-2002, 07:31 AM

The 351C in my opinion is the most awesome engine ford ever did and would put one up against anything out there, as for the 390 they belong in trucks

Clark Rodgers · 03-20-2002, 12:54 PM

I will try and answer your questions as I understood them. First I will say choose the 351C over the 390. You stated that which one give you the most punch for the buck, that is going to be tough with either one of these motors both have pricey replacement parts. How complete is the 351C?

I am also with Rev that a 351W is a nice motor to tweak and does not cost you a arm and a leg.

Mach1 Cobra Jet · 03-20-2002, 01:27 PM

The 351C motor I have is complete except for the starter, alternator, fan, and distributor. These items I would replace anyway. Both motors need rebuilt. I can do the rebuilding myself except for the machine work. I want to bore the motor 30 over, use all performance parts such as forged pistons, double roller timing chain, chrome molly rings etc. I have a 4 Barrel Aluminum Intake a 750 Holley I hope will work. Thanks to all of you for your help.

David

MrWesson22 · 03-20-2002, 06:09 PM

You didn't specify which heads are on the 351C (2V or 4V). If it's a 4V headed engine, it won't make much lowend torque, but it's EASY to get 450+ hp out of on pump gas. I'd go with the cleveland.

Ron1 · 03-20-2002, 08:51 PM

Just curious if anyone has been following the 390 Buildup article in "Mustangs & Fords" In the article they describe using all the latest technologies available and how they improved upon all the "weak" areas that used to exist in the 390. Next issue...the Jack Rousch Dyno testing..

Ron

Rev · 03-20-2002, 09:00 PM

I read that one too. I'll bet that it was an expensive build up the way they (Rousch) did it. Will be interesting to see the numbers.

Rev

69fastback · 03-21-2002, 01:04 AM

yes i have been reading that and it seems like it would be very expensive. i wish i could afford that to do to my car. the dyno is going to be instresting

Red_69Mach1 · 03-21-2002, 02:28 AM

The 351 Cleveland-

Pro-It's a beast you have to do little to no work on the cylinder heads to get power, I would suggest using the the 2V heads on the street to make power, the 4V heads have way to big intake ports (you can nearly stick your fist in it).

Cons-The Cleveland does not have a huge aftermarket unlike the 351 Windsor, it has oiling problems, and it is difficult to find a block that has not already been messed with since the blocks are so rare. (I believe they were only produced from 1970-1977?)

The 351 Windsor

Pro-It has a huge aftermarket, its easy to find a good block, there are lots of books about how to mod them. They are very cheap

Cons-They suck big time when left stock

It all comes down to preference but in my opinion I would chose to build up a 351 Windsor just beacuse its cheaper and has a better aftermarket. Also if you want to stay original the 351 Cleveland was not offered in 1969, so if your restoring your mustang to original specs that rules it out.

Anyways have fun with your choice there both awesome engines.

Mach1 Cobra Jet · 03-21-2002, 12:38 PM

The 351C that I have is a 70 date code. It has the 2V heads. Another question, I have an aluminum intake that I think is for 4V heads. Will this work on the 351C-2V? Also what do you guys recomend as far as a distributor, coil, etc. ?

03-15-2002, 02:05 PM	#1
Mach1 Cobra Jet Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Berkeley Springs, West Virginia Posts: 13	Which One Would You Use And Why ! Ask me about a MOPAR and I can answer almost any question; but, I am new to the Ford scene. I am restoring my 69 Mach1. It was a 351W, long gone engine. I now have a choice of either using a 1970 351C or a 74 390. Which one can I get the most punch for the buck from and which would be the easiest and less expensive to swap into my Mustang. I would like to do a 428, but that has to wait for a while yet. I am looking at strickly street, but a good stong performer and often driven. I have a friend who knows Fords inside and out and has build some beautys and some very fast cars. He recommends the 351C. What do you think and I welcome any suggested modifications and any other ideas. Also would be interested in part sources. I am still looking for a Top Loader 4 Speed and a 3:50-1 center section for a 9" 28 spline rear. Would prefer posi-unit. Thanks, David __________________ David 69 Mach1, 351 Cobra Jet, FMX Automatic, 15 X 7 Frt and 15 X 8 Rear Magnum 500's With Firestone Firehawk SS20 Tires. Hooker Headers, Flowmasters, Red With Black Interior. 9" Rear with 3:50 Positrac Gears. Also 70 440-6V Cuda, 4 Speed (Not A Ford, But Very Sweet) 2001 Dodge 2500 4X4 Ram 24 Valve Cummins Diesel, (Black Beauty). 1998 Dodge 4X4 Durango SLT.

03-15-2002, 04:37 PM	#2
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	I go with the 351 Cleveland, but that's just me. I'm pinched for time, but I'll explain myself later. BTW, I don't mind you borrowing my 440 6-pak 'cuda, but I expect you to have back in my garage by tomorrow night. Washed. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

03-15-2002, 04:38 PM	#3
mean81GT Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NY Posts: 299	the 390 isn't really considered a performance engine to me, there are very little parts available for it, and the things for the 351 are going to be cheaper. you can build a 428 out of a 390, and that rebuild kit (no heads, just crank, rods, pistons, rings, all bearings) is 1800 out of PAW. the heads are another story, they i think are 1300 out of summit (428 CJ aluminum) as far as parts, i have found National Parts Deport, Virginia Mustangs, and Mustangs Unlimited to eb the top three for what i have needed. __________________ I'm a glutton for punishment.

03-15-2002, 05:45 PM	#4
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	You did say "or any other ideas". I think you would get more "bang for the buck" with a 351 Windsor engine, maybe even stroked. Much lighter than the 390 FE block. 351 Cleavland parts are sometimes hard to find and might demand premium prices. 351W hop up parts are plentiful and cheap. Just another idea, check with your Ford friend to see if he agrees? Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe

03-15-2002, 06:10 PM	#5
69fastback IRAQ VET Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: high desert California Posts: 1,480	aww you don't have to go through summit to get CJ heads I got a couple pairs in my garage. I still would go with the 351C more room to work on the motor. My car is very tight for space and a real pain to work on. Trust me you don't want a 390. __________________ 428 Cobra Jet SOHC 5.4 3V F-150 96 mystic cobra 91 GT

03-20-2002, 07:31 AM	#6
agawam Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: agawam ma usa Posts: 39	The 351C in my opinion is the most awesome engine ford ever did and would put one up against anything out there, as for the 390 they belong in trucks __________________ agawam performance owner

03-20-2002, 12:54 PM	#7
Clark Rodgers Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Rowlett,Texas Posts: 306	I will try and answer your questions as I understood them. First I will say choose the 351C over the 390. You stated that which one give you the most punch for the buck, that is going to be tough with either one of these motors both have pricey replacement parts. How complete is the 351C? I am also with Rev that a 351W is a nice motor to tweak and does not cost you a arm and a leg. __________________ 69 393W Sportsroof deluxe

03-20-2002, 01:27 PM	#8
Mach1 Cobra Jet Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Berkeley Springs, West Virginia Posts: 13	351C The 351C motor I have is complete except for the starter, alternator, fan, and distributor. These items I would replace anyway. Both motors need rebuilt. I can do the rebuilding myself except for the machine work. I want to bore the motor 30 over, use all performance parts such as forged pistons, double roller timing chain, chrome molly rings etc. I have a 4 Barrel Aluminum Intake a 750 Holley I hope will work. Thanks to all of you for your help. David __________________ David 69 Mach1, 351 Cobra Jet, FMX Automatic, 15 X 7 Frt and 15 X 8 Rear Magnum 500's With Firestone Firehawk SS20 Tires. Hooker Headers, Flowmasters, Red With Black Interior. 9" Rear with 3:50 Positrac Gears. Also 70 440-6V Cuda, 4 Speed (Not A Ford, But Very Sweet) 2001 Dodge 2500 4X4 Ram 24 Valve Cummins Diesel, (Black Beauty). 1998 Dodge 4X4 Durango SLT.

03-20-2002, 06:09 PM	#9
MrWesson22 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Dacula, GA Posts: 73	You didn't specify which heads are on the 351C (2V or 4V). If it's a 4V headed engine, it won't make much lowend torque, but it's EASY to get 450+ hp out of on pump gas. I'd go with the cleveland. __________________ Neal 69 stang 351C/4sp

03-20-2002, 08:51 PM	#10
Ron1 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Vancouver, WA USA Posts: 439	Just curious if anyone has been following the 390 Buildup article in "Mustangs & Fords" In the article they describe using all the latest technologies available and how they improved upon all the "weak" areas that used to exist in the 390. Next issue...the Jack Rousch Dyno testing.. Ron

03-20-2002, 09:00 PM	#11
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	I read that one too. I'll bet that it was an expensive build up the way they (Rousch) did it. Will be interesting to see the numbers. Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe

03-21-2002, 01:04 AM	#12
69fastback IRAQ VET Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: high desert California Posts: 1,480	yes i have been reading that and it seems like it would be very expensive. i wish i could afford that to do to my car. the dyno is going to be instresting __________________ 428 Cobra Jet SOHC 5.4 3V F-150 96 mystic cobra 91 GT

03-21-2002, 02:28 AM	#13
Red_69Mach1 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Northridge Posts: 1	The 351 Cleveland- Pro-It's a beast you have to do little to no work on the cylinder heads to get power, I would suggest using the the 2V heads on the street to make power, the 4V heads have way to big intake ports (you can nearly stick your fist in it). Cons-The Cleveland does not have a huge aftermarket unlike the 351 Windsor, it has oiling problems, and it is difficult to find a block that has not already been messed with since the blocks are so rare. (I believe they were only produced from 1970-1977?) The 351 Windsor Pro-It has a huge aftermarket, its easy to find a good block, there are lots of books about how to mod them. They are very cheap Cons-They suck big time when left stock It all comes down to preference but in my opinion I would chose to build up a 351 Windsor just beacuse its cheaper and has a better aftermarket. Also if you want to stay original the 351 Cleveland was not offered in 1969, so if your restoring your mustang to original specs that rules it out. Anyways have fun with your choice there both awesome engines. __________________ 1969 Mach 1-351 Windsor, FMX, 1 5/8 Long Tube Headers, Edelbrock Performer Intake, Holley Street Avenger Carb (670cfm), 3.00 gears, Mallory Ignition, MSD blaster coil, tranny cooler.

03-21-2002, 12:38 PM	#14
Mach1 Cobra Jet Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Berkeley Springs, West Virginia Posts: 13	Heads The 351C that I have is a 70 date code. It has the 2V heads. Another question, I have an aluminum intake that I think is for 4V heads. Will this work on the 351C-2V? Also what do you guys recomend as far as a distributor, coil, etc. ? __________________ David 69 Mach1, 351 Cobra Jet, FMX Automatic, 15 X 7 Frt and 15 X 8 Rear Magnum 500's With Firestone Firehawk SS20 Tires. Hooker Headers, Flowmasters, Red With Black Interior. 9" Rear with 3:50 Positrac Gears. Also 70 440-6V Cuda, 4 Speed (Not A Ford, But Very Sweet) 2001 Dodge 2500 4X4 Ram 24 Valve Cummins Diesel, (Black Beauty). 1998 Dodge 4X4 Durango SLT.