Rev....
 

Hey, Rev, you seem to have a good running stang there. I don't know anything about the carb'd cars. But I finally G-teched our 68 the other day.

It ran 15.1@98mph. **** thats slow!! That mph sucks bad. The car feels a lot faster than that. It did have massive wheelspin on the launch. Spun about 150feet. (NO KIDDING) Even let off the gas for a second and then go back into it and it still kept spinning.

The car has FMS Y-303 Aluminum heads, E-303 cam, edelbrock performer intake, and 600cfm holley vac sec carb. Its all through a stock C4 and 3.08 gears. With 9:1 Compression.

Your heads shouldnt flow as well as these heads and your getting high 13's out of your car with a C4 and not much more gear.

Have any tips?

Thanks,

Skyler

------------------
1989 Saleen Mustang #406
-----------------------
TFS Heads, Edelbrock Intake, E-303, 3.73's, 23degrees of timing and 87octane, and all the little stuff.
2.44 60' -
13.5@105.41mph 225Radials
2.0 60' -
13.2@105.81mph ET Streets(100+Degrees)

Hey Sky, just got home from the weekend. Seems like your same old problem. Lack of traction. With a 98 mph track time, my car ran a 14.17 with a 2.11-2.19 60' time. I expect your "new old car" should do something like that from your 98 mph 1/4 mph speed with decent traction . Apart from that, tell me how much your TFTW heads helped you on the Saleen. What did you have before on the Saleen? I'm hoping for 30-50 HP and no low end losses when I can finally do this upgrade. Opinions?

Rev

------------------
'66 Coupe, 306, windage
tray, TRW flat tops, 351W
heads,pocket ported, 268
CC hydraulic cam, R tip
R's, Edelbrock Performer,
600 CFM Holley vac. secs.,
Mallory Unilite, coil, fuel
pump, Tri-Y headers, 2 1/2 "
custom pipes, 3 chamber
Flows, stock C-4, 3.25
Currie built 8" rear,
March under drive pulleys,
13.97 e.t., 100.1 mph
1/4 mi.

REV- The tfs heads made a HUGE difference on my saleen. I did them and the cam at the same time. I lost nothing on the lowend. Infact my lowend is so strong I think I have more then before, but I havn't driven a stock 5.0 in a long time. The torque from the E-303 comes right in at 2500rpm.

Before I did the heads/cam/intake to my car it was running 15.1@91mph.

After I got them on, and tuned somewhat, I've now run a best of 13.2@106mph in 105degree weather. So once I get a cold day to goto the track I expect 12's. Especially once the car is tuned some more.

Skyler

------------------
1989 Saleen Mustang #406
-----------------------
TFS Heads, Edelbrock Intake, E-303, 3.73's, 23degrees of timing and 87octane, and all the little stuff.
2.44 60' -
13.5@105.41mph 225Radials
2.0 60' -
13.2@105.81mph ET Streets(100+Degrees)

Oh my gosh. It sounds just like the advertisements are right. Thanks for that tid bit Sky. Now I have to do some major sweet talking with the wife. Don't laugh, you'll be there some day. Thanks again for that unbiased info.

Rev

Yeah no problem.. I know what you mean, I won't laugh. I want to buy a cheap $450 nitrous kit for my car, and my girlfriend says, "You don't need to spend money on that." She won't let me get it untill I pay other debts down first.
http://www.mustangworks.com/interact...oard/smile.gif

Skyler

------------------
1989 Saleen Mustang #406
-----------------------
TFS Heads, Edelbrock Intake, E-303, 3.73's, 23degrees of timing and 87octane, and all the little stuff.
2.44 60' -
13.5@105.41mph 225Radials
2.0 60' -
13.2@105.81mph ET Streets(100+Degrees)

Sky, how the heck are you manageing a 13.5/105 with a 2.44 60' time. You must really be busting a$$ after the 60'. That's really making me want those TFTW heads. When I do that though, I'm gonna get'em ported if I'm going to all that trouble switching heads.

Rev

I ran 13.5@105 with a 2.44 60'. That was a hot day too. I've been having a lot of trouble with my timing, and its still really screwy. I'm running 16degrees with the spout out now, and I picked up 3mph in the 1/4. So it should be trapping about 108-109mph on a 80-90degree day now. Theres still more tuning to be done with the timing and the fuel pressure it just sitting at 36psi, Im sure that it could be adjusted more too.

If you port those heads get a damn good flowing intake and a cam that will wind up to atleast 6200-6300rpm!

Your car will really fly!

Skyler

------------------
1989 Saleen Mustang #406
-----------------------
TFS Heads, Edelbrock Intake, E-303, 3.73's, 23degrees of timing and 87octane, and all the little stuff.
2.44 60' -
13.5@105.41mph 225Radials
2.0 60' -
13.2@105.81mph ET Streets(100+Degrees)

rev, hope you read this. my brother in laws 67 coupe is running to damn slow considering the work he's done and it sounds very similar to the combo you are running now. he has a 302 with '66 289 heads that have been shaved and 351 valves installed..rebuilt etc. the cam is a .471 lift summit house cam, 600 cfm holley, edelbrock performer intake, headman 1 3/4 primary long tube headers, 8 inch rear with 3.80 gears and a locker. he runs a stock c4 trans and shifts around 5300 rpms. what is crazy is that this car weighs about 2800 lbs and only runs 9.6 at 77 mph in the 1/8 mile. please help me out, im at a loss and i feel sorry for him. i think he loses a lot on his 2.4 60 ft. times. the car pulls hard 3000-5000 and breaks traction when it shifts but feels like a turd at takeoff. it will only break the tires loose if you break-torque the crap out of it. i know you give up torque with a bigger cam and an automatic, and i know the primaries are way too big for unported stock heads, but the car is not heavy. we have the initial timing on the stock single points type distributor at 12 degrees initial....the same as a hi-po calls for, every part is bolted on right out of the box and the spark plugs are light tan as they should be. he's already wanting to throw a stall converter at it but i think thats jumping the gun. ive never liked throwing parts at a car that should be quicker as is first. any help you can offer would be appreciated, or if you know someone that can help us thats cool too.

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67stang coupe, carb on 5.0, 4 speed, 4.11's....8.52 IN 1/8 @83 wanting 7's

Make7UPYOURS..I think your weight guess may be a little off. As you know the 65/66 were the lightest stangs evr built and weighed in around 2700. The 67/68 were a lot longer, wider and heavier. Usually in the 3200 pound range. Rev, I would just port match those TFS heads and not go overboard. Out of the box they are good heads, but I would do a nice 3 or 5 angle valve cut to get the most benefit.
Skyman, if you are looking to save some money on the N2O, drop me a line at reddd@aol.com, I recently took a plate system of my coupe, and am interested in selling it.

Ron

ron, trust me, ive already weighed my 67 coupe on a scale, i know my car. it weighs 2850 with everything on it, its not stripped down at all. a 5.0 weighs around 3200 maybe, thats why a 5.0 motor in an early mustang will make it quicker than a fox bodied car. a 67 convertible with a/c power steering/brakes, console etc... may be a heavy car but not the base model coupe. it still doesnt explain the lack of power in my brother in laws car, and anyone else that might actually know if there is something we've missed, i'd appreciate the help.

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67stang coupe, carb on 5.0, 4 speed, 4.11's....8.52 IN 1/8 @83 wanting 7's

The stock ignition is TERRIBLE. Lose the points immediately and get a MSD to go with it.

Since the car is lacking lowend performance I would plug off the vacume advance and run 32 degrees total timing all the time. This should help your lowend too.

Give a few more details on the car. and What does that 1/8 convert to 1/4mi.

Skyler

------------------
1989 Saleen Mustang #406
-----------------------
TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shorty headers, Offroad-Hpipe, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, 32deg timing w/ spout out, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb injectors, K/N, March Crank pulley, MSD6a, 9mm wires and FMS Aluminum driveshaft.

Best ET 13.2@106mph (untuned)

Gtech 14.1@112mph

sky, you are all over the place in mustangworks! ok, the points type ignition does suck. i dont know how much timing the old style distributor adds to the initial timing so im not sure what the total advance is or where its all in at. i know we already unplugged the vacuum advance a few months ago and replaced the advance weight springs with the lightest set available from mr. gasket. the tune up is brand new, but you are right, a pertronix will be more accurate. the cam was installed straight up, and the 600cfm holley is box stock, the only thing we changed there was the pump cam setting to the #2 position. the 302 short block could be from anywhere and its the only thing we havent touched. its not using oil at all but the scoring on the cylinders says its definetly seen mileage. theres no blowby since the heads were reworked. compression checks before the heads were pulled showed every cylinder different from 110 psi to 130psi. im sure its better now because the heads were shot(recessed valves from unleaded gas etc.) compression check is due i guess, but the heads should perform better than 5.0 stock h.o. heads. 66 289 heads have no smog bumps, and have smaller chambers. besides stainless 351 valves were put in and the heads were shaved for even more compression. the car is light and has 3.80 gears but gets no rubber without brake torquing. what a bomb huh? the tires are 60 series bfg radials only 25 inches tall..not drag radials....they should go up in smoke right? is there anymore info you need on the car?

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67stang coupe, carb on 5.0, 4 speed, 4.11's....8.52 IN 1/8 @83 wanting 7's

make7UPYOURS, I think I missed the the duration on the Summit cam. I saw the .471 lift. My '66 Coupe weighs 3020 with a 1/2 tank of gas and without me in it,(includes spare tire & jack though.) This is w/out PS, PB, AC. Please don't ask what it weighs with me in it. LOL. No big honking stereo either. As you can see from my sig, my car is set up for low end torque. Dyno shows 223 @ 5100 and 262 @ 3750 at he rear wheels. This makes lots of oomph off the line but falls badly after 5500. Mostly due the plain Performer and the 268 CC cam and also the mildly worked 351W heads. My feeling is that the large tube headers (for a 302) and possibly a long duration cam are hurting you even with the 3.80 rear and the lighter weight. My understanding is that the 289 heads even though they have small chambers, may not breathe really well even with the larger valves. Coul be some valve shrouding with these heads and biger valves. Thjat could hurt breathing some. It's possible for bigger valves to actually decrease flow. My car runs 9.1 and 81 at the 1/8 mile mark. My first runs with the car were only 14.38/97. Later made 14.17/97. Finally after lots of tweaking got 13.97/101. Tweaking included going through the carb trying different jets (primaries only (4160)), ACC. pump cams, nozzles, secondary springs, adding a K&N stub stack on the carb, windage tray and scraper, roller tip rockers, and changing the distributer advance curve. (13 deg. initial and a whopping 45 deg total, all in by 3000). There was lots of trial and error here, but finally feel Iv'e got about all I can out of this set up. My advice is to make a DynoJet run to see exactly what kind of power you're making and where the torque is. This will be a well spent $75. You'll then hopefully know how to proceed to make the car run the way you want. My gut feeling is you've got too much cam and too big headers. Hope this helps a little.

Rev

Ron1, I've always heard that while Trick Flow TW heads were designed well and made power that they were sort of rough compared to Edelbrock Performers or Ford Motorsport GT40X.Just clean up was what I had in mind. Doubt that my engine will see 6000 to often unless I miss a shift. LOL. Thanks for the advice.

Rev

rev, the cam is a summit with .471 lift int./ext with 218 intake duration and 228 exaust duration at .050 lift. the lobe separation is 114 for sounds good for a street cam. i definetly agree with you on the headers, he shouldnt have listened to the summit salesman, but he's new at this game. my mistake was not telling him to get the 351 cam....for some reason it works better in a 302 because of the firing order. the heads are shaved, not sure how much the machinist took off, but they have extremely small chambers to begin with. now i know a stock 5.0 has the same valve size as a 351w with larger chamber heads (61-64cc) so it seems the valve would be so close to the top of the bore that valve shrouding wouldnt be a problem. i know also that the runners on all stock small block fords(windsors) as well as the ports are the same size. there are flow variations between early model/smog heads but look at the ports on a 289 head and a 351w head....exactly the same size. the hi-po heads also have same ports. sorry about this being so wordy, i just think this car should have a lot more power than this, 9.6 in 1/8 for this car is sad.....a bone stock 5.0 is quicker with 2.73 gears/444 lift cam/and weighing 3200lbs. thanks for your replies.

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67stang coupe, carb on 5.0, 4 speed, 4.11's....8.52 IN 1/8 @83 wanting 7's

After looking at the 1/8 to 1/4 conversionn chart an 8.52 in the eights is pretty good. That equates to a 13.26. My 65 Coupe ran a best NA ever of a 12.82 with the TFS heads, Edel dual plane, and 750 CFM carb. Power steering, power brakes, 8.5 inch slicks. Leaving at 2500, lift on the shift, and shift at around 5400. BTW is the intake a dual or single plane? The rest of the Coupe specs are on my home page(if you are interested) too long too list. With the N2O it ran a 12.04...

Ron www.rfedd.bigstep.com

thanks ron, the car has a bone stock 100k long block with the e303 the only exception. im not happy with the 8.52 because the car can go 8.2-8.3 on this setup, ive seen it done with a stripped down fox chasis stang. after i get there im going to get the edelbrock rpm heads/harland sharp rollers. dont you think my brother in laws' car should be quicker? he's pi$$ed and i dont blame him. im trying to help him, he sees my car run and kinda looks for my advice but im not too sharp on cars with automatics. i know he's got to worry more about his ignition advance curve and carb. setup a lot more than i do. stick cars are easy, get your total timing in and jet your carb.....all done. educate me, ill field all comments on this one.

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67stang coupe, carb on 5.0, 4 speed, 4.11's....8.52 IN 1/8 @83 wanting 7's

You might try a manual valve body in the C4 and if you wanna launch a little harder get one with a Transbrake. That would also take a reverse pattern shifter. He could also incorporate a little higher stall converter. I launch my FB at 4600 RPM on the TB, because I want to be in the cam's powerband. You could tune yours so that you are in the powerband of your cam. Just a thought.

Ron

its a daily driver so im not sure if he'll want to modify it that much, but you know that stock t-shifter is kinda sloppy. we are looking at a tci 10 inch converter now with 3000-3500 stall. i was told that the car would choose to stall on the low rpm side of this converter because of the lack of torque out of this motor. does this sound right? i was also told that this stall would be very streetable for driving in town. does this sound right? i know the car goes 60mph right at 3000 rpm and everything i've read says dont pick a converter that stalls above your cruise rpm. should i post a new message on just this subject?

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67stang coupe, carb on 5.0, 4 speed, 4.11's....8.52 IN 1/8 @83 wanting 7's

That's exactly why I'm using a 2400 TCI. With your brother in laws 3.80 and a C-4, you're already at the ragged edge for cruising. I'm doing 3000 at 70 and I thought that was at the edge with my 3.25. One question. Is this just a strip car? Street/strip, or Saturday Night Special? You need a DynoJet run to see where you're at and then what else you need. If this is a street car, something else is wrong if you need a 3500 converter. my $.02.

Rev

------------------
'66 Coupe, 306, windage
tray, TRW flat tops, 351W
heads,pocket ported, 268
CC hydraulic cam, R tip
R's, Edelbrock Performer,
600 CFM Holley vac. secs.,
Mallory Unilite, coil, fuel
pump, Tri-Y headers, 2 1/2 "
custom pipes, 3 chamber
Flows, stock C-4, 3.25
Currie built 8" rear,
March under drive pulleys,
13.97 e.t., 100.1 mph
1/4 mi.

TCI 2400 stall converter
B&M Trans-pac shift kit
No new track times until
cool weather

A 3000/3500 would not really have that much impact on the daily driving. Sounds like a good plan. Before I went to a T5 in the Coupe I ran a 2500 in the C4...no noticable difference in the street driving.

Ron

3000/3500 no street effect? Where does one expect to be most of the time on the street rpm-wise? Strip of course is alot different. My opinion is 3000 is to high for the street, at least for general use.

Rev

its a daily driver that sees the strip every other week. we'd like to get this thing in the 8 sec. range in the 1/8 mile, but we dont want to make it drive bad in the city. hey rev, how did your car act with a 2500 stall? did it launch noticeable better? how was the city driving? this car usually doesnt go over 40 mph because he lives in town and drives in town to work. we are try to cure a 60 ft. time of 2.4 sec. this car is wicked betwwen 3000-5300 rpm, but wont even get rubber from take off with 3.80 gears. what kind of converter did you run (brand) and what do you recomend?

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67stang coupe, carb on 5.0, 4 speed, 4.11's....8.52 IN 1/8 @83 wanting 7's

First off I am in a 67 4dr falcon (wieght is 3055 with me in it)and I just went to a tci 10 inch converter on the street (from a tci 11 inch) from a cruising stand point I don't see any real difference I did pick up about 2 Mpg's though. I don't know why don't ask it should have gotten worse not better. I am running 3.25's and a 24 inch tall tire. The other thing is REV how often do you get to the track I am there at least ever other wed. I have the green/white falcon.

A 3500rpm stall would really affect driveability. Would kill gas mileage too. Seems like your compression is a little low on that motor too.

What kind of condition was the engine in when you put it in the car. Not all 5.0s are created the same. My car only ran 15.1@94mph when it had 3.73's flows and a k/n.

But it shouldn't be that slow off the line. Did you try doing the timing like I said?
Run 32-34 total. All the time. I did that on my car, really picked up down low. I really can't see whats holding it back otherwise.

Skyler

------------------
1989 Saleen Mustang #406
-----------------------
TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shorty headers, Offroad-Hpipe, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, 32deg timing w/ spout out, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb injectors, K/N, March Crank pulley, MSD6a, 9mm wires and FMS Aluminum driveshaft.

Best ET 13.2@106mph (untuned)

Gtech 14.1@112mph

its actually not a 5.0 in the automatic car....brother's 67 coupe. its an early model 302 with 66 289 heads that have just been shaved and 351 valves installed. i agree that a 5.0 block wouldve been better with its forged pistons and roller cam, but his heads are actually better than 5.0 stock heads. i guess 145 psi isnt good compression? we were afraid when he did the heads he'd got a lot of blowby/blue smoke, but none at all. we are going to the track again tommorow to play with the timing, see if it runs any better. its really weird that this thing pulls so hard in midrange/top end and will not even get rubber at take-off. we were told that his low torque motor on a 3k-35k stall converter would stall at 3000 because converters act differently on different motors. this is a daily driver car so we cant get crazy, but is a 2 second 60ft time too much to ask for? i think if he could launch around 2500 it should be perfect because i was launching at about 1500 to 2k in my 4 speed car on those same exact tires and getting a 2 second 60 ft. SEE, THATS WHY IM NOT AN AUTOMATIC PERSON! does everyone agree on 2500-3000 stall for this setup?

------------------
67stang coupe, carb on 5.0, 4 speed, 4.11's....8.52 IN 1/8 @83 wanting 7's

maybe the valves or something is too big and your just not getting enough lowend air velocity to make lowend power. I really don't know why its such a dog off the line. I don't get it.

Sounds like a 4spd would make it more streetable. Could stall at any rpm.

Skyler

------------------
1989 Saleen Mustang #406
-----------------------
TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shorty headers, Offroad-Hpipe, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, 32deg timing w/ spout out, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb injectors, K/N, March Crank pulley, MSD6a, 9mm wires and FMS Aluminum driveshaft.

Best ET 13.2@106mph (untuned)

Gtech 14.1@112mph

In my opion the 145 compression reading is good. If you do have some doubts you can always back this up with a leakdown test. As far as the timing, on both my 302's ran best at 38 degrees total (most HP). The thing to remember is that the heads, even with the larger valves, may still not flow the greatest. Small ports, and even with port work, are still not the greatest. I also went back to 6 months of time slips on my FB, and the average 60 foot was a 1.90 (on 10.5 inch slicks)so a 2.00 is not out of the question.

Ron

make7UPYOURS, my best 60' was 2.11 on street radials, so I agree that 2.00 60' is a reasonable goal, even on street tires. I could not tell much difference with the 2400 TCI converter, but haven't been to the strip with it yet. G-Tech showed same old 5.30 0-60 time. 2500-3000 to me is on the edge for street driving especially with the 3.80 and no overdrive. The cam ought to be about perfect for a street car. I also think Ron1 is correct about the 289 heads. Are you sure about the ports being the same size in 289's and 351W's? That's why I got the 351W's instead of using my old 289's heads. My static CR is supposed to be 9.5/1. Cranking compression is 195-200 psi. 145 seems low to me. Are the pistons flat tops? With that cam and a 3.80, I'd expect that car to melt street tires. Do a DynoJet if you can and see what the engine is doing and when. Then try to figure out what the fix is.

Rev

i think we figured this one out tonight at the track, and 2.2 60 ft. times were the result. we were told by another banger with a c-4 that we were brake torquing it way too much(2-2500). the guy said that an old car like ours stands up taller when you torque it up not letting the weight transfer quickly. he said launch it at 1200 and it worked! picked up a solid .2! also we had the timing about 3 degrees too advanced, dale said the car was pinging top end. remember how i said we had 66 small chamber heads that were shaved but ran with 12 degrees initial because thats what the called for in the 271 hi-po car.....the car ran .3 quicker and picked up about 4 mph. now we got 9.3@76mph in the 1/8. not bad for a worn bottom end dished/cast piston 302. hes getting this through a stock single points type ignition, 2" glasspacks, and a very sorry stock c-4. now i think with the 2.25 flows, pertronix ignition, 3000 tci stall, shift kit, slap shifter he's solid in the 8's. thats only like $500! well if he can get the shifter from my neighbor and we do all the work ourselves. oh, to answer the question about the heads, yes the 289 heads have the same port size as even the "good" early model 351 heads. and the 289 heads have smaller chambers too without the smog bumps. the 351 does however have bigger valves but all you have to do is put the in the 289 heads. the 1966 and earlier heads are the best. i know it sounds wrong, trust me, we shopped around. also the hi-po 289 head isnt all that impressive either. the only difference is the hi-po has spring pockets and screw-in studs.....big deal. flow no better. hate to go on here but i ran tonight also and posted 8.41 @ 83 WITH A MUCH IMPROVED 60 FT. OF 1.86. there was a 2000 viper gts there also, he ran 8.34! only .07 quicker! i feel better than shirley temple on the good ship lolipop, timeslip already posted on the fridge! now have to change my sig.

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67stang coupe, carb on 5.0, 4 speed, 4.11's....8.52 IN 1/8 @83 wanting 7's

Update on the 68 mustang...

Installed the petronix ignition tonight.
Went really quick and easy.

Ran it and went 14.8@101.8mph.

The gears are terrible, but I'm still disappointed. The mph is starting to show a little potential, but the high end power just sucks! Over 4500rpm it just makes noise and doesnt pull any harder. My saleen screams to 5900rpm.

I don't get it?

Skyler

------------------
1989 Saleen Mustang #406
-----------------------
TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shorty headers, Offroad-Hpipe, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, 32deg timing w/ spout out, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb injectors, K/N, March Crank pulley, MSD6a, 9mm wires and FMS Aluminum driveshaft.

Best ET 13.2@106mph (untuned)

Gtech 14.1@112mph

Sky, what sort of exhaust system are you running on the '68? That could be hurting the breathing on the exhaust side and negating good intake, cam, heads etc. Is that 3.08 a Traction-lock? You won't launch well with a one-legger. In the original post you said thre were traction problems. Just a couple of thoughts.

Rev

The exhaust has long tube headers, that goes back to a 2" pipe with an H, through 2 chambers, and then 2" pipe all the way out the back.

It is a 1 legger. Its hard to get between bog or spin, it does one of the other.

Sky

------------------
1989 Saleen Mustang #406
-----------------------
TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shorty headers, Offroad-Hpipe, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, 32deg timing w/ spout out, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb injectors, K/N, March Crank pulley, MSD6a, 9mm wires and FMS Aluminum driveshaft.

Best ET 13.2@106mph (untuned)

Gtech 14.1@112mph

sky, what are all the stats on this car, every detail???? i think i can help you a lot but i dont know what you got. engine description including all mods, everything. this car will outrun your fox bodied car with the same powertrain.

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67stang coupe, carb on 5.0, 4 speed, 4.11's....8.41 @ 83mph in 1/8 wanting 7's

Ok, heres everydetail...

1968 Mustang Coupe Sound deadening removed.
Brand new FMS crate motor.
Y302 Aluminum heads
E-303 Cam
Edelbrock performer 289 intake
600cfm holley carb (Box stock)
Full Length headers with H-pipe back to 2chambers flows. 2" pipe all the way out to the back.
Stock c4 tranny.
3.08 gears
Petronix Ignition
stock 7mm wires
stock pulleys
vacume advance
Edelbrock water pump
paper air filter
195 thermostat
Stock clutch less bolt on fan
Timing ?? Somewhere from 10-15degrees

It has good midrange power, but it just doesnt have nearly the top end pull of my 5.0. From 4000-5500rpm its just the same power, its loud, but it doesnt pull hard!
I know it has bad gears, but it should pull hard on the topend, and it doesnt.

Skyler


------------------
1989 Saleen Mustang #406
-----------------------
TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shorty headers, Offroad-Hpipe, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, 32deg timing w/ spout out, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb injectors, K/N, March Crank pulley, MSD6a, 9mm wires and FMS Aluminum driveshaft.

Best ET 13.2@106mph (untuned)

Gtech 14.1@112mph

7up??

Skyler

------------------
1989 Saleen Mustang #406
-----------------------
TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shorty headers, Offroad-Hpipe, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, 32deg timing w/ spout out, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb injectors, K/N, March Crank pulley, MSD6a, 9mm wires and FMS Aluminum driveshaft.

Best ET 13.2@106mph (untuned)

Gtech 14.1@112mph

Sky here is what I would recomend first off With only a 600 carb and performer on those heads I would run a 1" open spacer between the carb and intake. secondly I would seriously suspect ignition for the lack of top end power at one point I had a stock cammed 289 that would only pull to 4000ish then I put in a mallory distributor,coil and hyfire 7 module. all of a sudden it would runn right up to 6000 (power was really done at around 5500 though)You don't have to use mallory but get a good CD style ignition on it.(the pertronix is fine for the distributor as long as your advance is working properly. I would also keep bumping up your timing to where you just about ping and slowly back off each pass till you start to slow down then put it back on the last run. Also does he have traction bars or anything? Even with the peg leg he should be cutting 2.0's to low 2.1's on his sixty.

Shaggy, whats a CD style thing?

Ive been suspecting ignition too.

It has a stock distributor with vacume advance with a petronix in it. A superstock coil from pepboys, stock replacement wires. What should we do, cuz last night we went to the track.

Granted the track was at 2800feet, but the first run was 16.1@86mph. The second run was 15.6@89mph. Corrected for Altitude thats only a 15.0. Thats really pathetic.

Thanks for the help..

Skyler

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1989 Saleen Mustang #406
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TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shorty headers, Offroad-Hpipe, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, 32deg timing w/ spout out, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb injectors, K/N, March Crank pulley, MSD6a, 9mm wires and FMS Aluminum driveshaft.

Best ET 13.2@106mph (untuned)

Gtech 14.1@112mph

CD (Capacitive Discharge) Like a MSD 6 (or above),Mallory Hyfire 7 or above,accel 300+,jacobs omnipak so on and so on.... Anyway the deal is the the stock or semi stock setup like he has is Inductive Discharge The differences are at idle and low rpm (in this case anything less than about 4000)the inductive works well but your spark get weaker the higher you rev while in a Capacitive the higher you rev the better spark you get(in theory). What happens is The inductive just has a trigger (in his case the pertronix) and the coil can only saturate for milliseconds once you start to turn higher revs in a capacitive system there are capcitors (hence the name) that store up voltage to send to the coil between sparks so that you coil gets full voltage fast enough to saturate correctly. Also if your coil isn't designed for a CD system you can expect a short life out of it when it is hooked up to cd box.

[This message has been edited by Shaggy (edited 09-30-2000).]

Shaggy, that's a good explanation of the advantages of capacitive discharge at high RPM.

Rev

ive been on vacation, just got back. i dissagree with some of shaggy's suggestions, especially about putting an open spacer on a dual plane manifold....especially the performer. also i think the car could use a bigger exaust system, like 2.25"--2.5" pipes...no bigger. you know the 3.08 gears aint getting it, and no matter what gear you got, you will not get a 2-2.1 60 ft. time with a peg leg rear axle. the long runners on a 5.0 intake, fuel injection, and short headers will all contribute more to the low end torque than the setup you have, however its not a bad thing. you may want to check your initial and total timing. not enough timing will make your car suck top end, but i dont think you need some kind of msd or mallory setup with your combo. unless you are running a blower, nitrous, or high compression, the ignition you have now is plenty. put the lightest advance prings you can in the bottom of your distributor, get the timing in early, and run it up till it pings(be sure you know what that sound is like) and retard it until it just stops pinging. read your plugs. you can also get power out of jetting your carb if you know how. where are you launching your car at? if you hold the brake and give it too much rpm the body will rise and have to move further when the weight transfers on launch, thereby killing your 60ft. forget 2-2500 and try 1200 rpm launches. trust me on this one. still its 3.08s and peg leg......the best way to make a 300hp car launch like 150hp is with an open differential. i cant remember what you said the cam was...anyway.

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67stang coupe, carb on 5.0, 4 speed, 4.11's....8.41 @ 83mph in 1/8 wanting 7's

oh, if the car has an open diff......no need for traction bars in almost all cases. only if you are making enough power to have a wheel hop problem do you need traction bars, otherwise you'll be bolting on unnecessary unsprung weight.

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67stang coupe, carb on 5.0, 4 speed, 4.11's....8.41 @ 83mph in 1/8 wanting 7's

I have to disagree with 7up I have personally cut a best of 1.98 on a peg leg 2.78 gear with 205/60/14 general xp2000 tires with consistent 2.0's. The one inch spacer is to "poor boy" a higher rpm intake without paying for a new intake. With those heads it should breath more than a perfomer would adequaly feed. I agree the exhaust would help, but I don't think it is the majority of his problem considering I ran a best of 14.04 (same pass as the 1.98 60') with 14.1's cosistant enough to dial in with the cast iron manifolds and dual 2 inch with oem style mufflers. the traction bars were what got me the low 60's and able to launch consistenly on the second yellow to cut .5 lights. I was also launching with my foot as close to the floor as I could on the gas. Without traction bars my 60's were all over the place with only one wheel getting power. Also on the ignition note I used to think the same think that you didn't need all of it till I did it to a my at the time bone stock 289 because it was laying around from another car I had. It made a very impressive difference and I am now sold on it.

My set up for the 14's was

subframe connectors
cast iron exhaust manifolds
2" duals with oem style mufflers
351W heads 1.94 int 1.6 exhuast mild port work
Factory ford lightning cam advanced 5 degrees(got it for $35 new and it was bigger than the stock 289 cam just had to change my firing order)
1.7 RR's
Mallory unilite
Mallory coil
MSD 6a
C-4
TCI 11 inch converter gave about a 3000 on the foot brake
2.78 peg leg
205/60/14 general xp2000's
universal slapper bars modded to hit the front spring eye and adjusted so they just barely touched.
front shocks that are blown (I have had the car for about 5 years and the were wore out when I got it but they let the nose lift real good to get some weight on the rear wheels)
Rear shocks are questionable they are 4 year old air shocks that don't hold air anymore.
Ede performer rpm intake (with one inch open phenolic spacer)
700 mechanical secondary Holley
electric fans
Shifted at 5000
Race weight 3125
Best run that set up 1.98 60' 14.04 et at 94.6 mph
My motor is basicaly all in the heads

Thing changed to get in the 13's

C-6
TCI 10 inch converter (footbrakes to 3000 but flashes to 3500)
Hooker 1 3/4 headers (to large for now but stroker is being built right now)
3.25 posi
245/50/14 BFG's
3" duals 2 3" glasspacks at the header and 2 3" dynomax at the axle runs out the back
electric water pump
Aluminum driveshaft
Race weight of 3225 (c-6 and 3"exhaust weighed me down)
shifting first to second at 6000 second to third at 5700
Now my sixty's are sporadic again with a best of 2.06 (ever since I put the gear in traction has been down)
best mph was 98.1
best et 13.85 at 97.84


[This message has been edited by Shaggy (edited 10-01-2000).]

i still disagree and stand by what i said earlier. shaggy's car has better heads and more mods than mine but ive done my homework and an open spacer on a dual plane does nothing but hurt performance. its a cheap mod though so go ahead, i love to learn things on my own too. an "upgrade" to a c-6 isnt necessary when ive seen c-4's run behind big block cars with more power than most wild small blocks. why add the weight? i would also stay with 2.5" exaust at the largest. ive seen too many guys put 3" pipes on their car only to run slower because they killed the flow velocity of the headers not allowing them to scavenge the cylinders. the whole engine is a system, if something doesnt match the combination, you'll never see its power potential. also i woulnt overcarb a smallblock with 700 cfm, especially not manual secondaries with an automatic. oh well. it just like they say.....ask a question, get a conflicting answer between every gearhead.

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67stang coupe, carb on 5.0, 4 speed, 4.11's....8.41 @ 83mph in 1/8 wanting 7's

I agree with you on the fact my exhaust is to big the c-6 wasn't nessicarilly an upgrade and that it all needs to be a system. I am building a system though just not for the motor that is in it the stroker I was reffering to in on of my posts is a 393 with 11 to 1 compression ported TW's victor JR cam that specs out around .640 intake and .650 exhaust on 110 lc's 244 intake and 248 exhaust duration @ 50 and a little bottle. So what I have is overkill for this baby motor I am just building for the stroker that I am building (It is already balanced just need to assemble and install).

we are probably the only two people in here who can disagree so much and still refrain from cheap shots, shaggy. just goes to show im getting old.

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67stang coupe, carb on 5.0, 4 speed, 4.11's....8.41 @ 83mph in 1/8 wanting 7's

Agreed 7up

Just wanted to add that it was also kinda nice for it not to turn into a big overblown arguement. I didn't take it personally and hope you didn't either.