Rev....

[Ron1]

A 3000/3500 would not really have that much impact on the daily driving. Sounds like a good plan. Before I went to a T5 in the Coupe I ran a 2500 in the C4...no noticable difference in the street driving.

Ron

[Rev]

3000/3500 no street effect? Where does one expect to be most of the time on the street rpm-wise? Strip of course is alot different. My opinion is 3000 is to high for the street, at least for general use.

Rev

its a daily driver that sees the strip every other week. we'd like to get this thing in the 8 sec. range in the 1/8 mile, but we dont want to make it drive bad in the city. hey rev, how did your car act with a 2500 stall? did it launch noticeable better? how was the city driving? this car usually doesnt go over 40 mph because he lives in town and drives in town to work. we are try to cure a 60 ft. time of 2.4 sec. this car is wicked betwwen 3000-5300 rpm, but wont even get rubber from take off with 3.80 gears. what kind of converter did you run (brand) and what do you recomend?

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67stang coupe, carb on 5.0, 4 speed, 4.11's....8.52 IN 1/8 @83 wanting 7's

[Shaggy]

First off I am in a 67 4dr falcon (wieght is 3055 with me in it)and I just went to a tci 10 inch converter on the street (from a tci 11 inch) from a cruising stand point I don't see any real difference I did pick up about 2 Mpg's though. I don't know why don't ask it should have gotten worse not better. I am running 3.25's and a 24 inch tall tire. The other thing is REV how often do you get to the track I am there at least ever other wed. I have the green/white falcon.

[Skyman]

A 3500rpm stall would really affect driveability. Would kill gas mileage too. Seems like your compression is a little low on that motor too.

What kind of condition was the engine in when you put it in the car. Not all 5.0s are created the same. My car only ran 15.1@94mph when it had 3.73's flows and a k/n.

But it shouldn't be that slow off the line. Did you try doing the timing like I said?
Run 32-34 total. All the time. I did that on my car, really picked up down low. I really can't see whats holding it back otherwise.

Skyler

------------------
1989 Saleen Mustang #406
-----------------------
TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shorty headers, Offroad-Hpipe, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, 32deg timing w/ spout out, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb injectors, K/N, March Crank pulley, MSD6a, 9mm wires and FMS Aluminum driveshaft.

Best ET 13.2@106mph (untuned)

Gtech 14.1@112mph

its actually not a 5.0 in the automatic car....brother's 67 coupe. its an early model 302 with 66 289 heads that have just been shaved and 351 valves installed. i agree that a 5.0 block wouldve been better with its forged pistons and roller cam, but his heads are actually better than 5.0 stock heads. i guess 145 psi isnt good compression? we were afraid when he did the heads he'd got a lot of blowby/blue smoke, but none at all. we are going to the track again tommorow to play with the timing, see if it runs any better. its really weird that this thing pulls so hard in midrange/top end and will not even get rubber at take-off. we were told that his low torque motor on a 3k-35k stall converter would stall at 3000 because converters act differently on different motors. this is a daily driver car so we cant get crazy, but is a 2 second 60ft time too much to ask for? i think if he could launch around 2500 it should be perfect because i was launching at about 1500 to 2k in my 4 speed car on those same exact tires and getting a 2 second 60 ft. SEE, THATS WHY IM NOT AN AUTOMATIC PERSON! does everyone agree on 2500-3000 stall for this setup?

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67stang coupe, carb on 5.0, 4 speed, 4.11's....8.52 IN 1/8 @83 wanting 7's

[Skyman]

maybe the valves or something is too big and your just not getting enough lowend air velocity to make lowend power. I really don't know why its such a dog off the line. I don't get it.

Sounds like a 4spd would make it more streetable. Could stall at any rpm.

Skyler

------------------
1989 Saleen Mustang #406
-----------------------
TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shorty headers, Offroad-Hpipe, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, 32deg timing w/ spout out, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb injectors, K/N, March Crank pulley, MSD6a, 9mm wires and FMS Aluminum driveshaft.

Best ET 13.2@106mph (untuned)

Gtech 14.1@112mph

[Ron1]

In my opion the 145 compression reading is good. If you do have some doubts you can always back this up with a leakdown test. As far as the timing, on both my 302's ran best at 38 degrees total (most HP). The thing to remember is that the heads, even with the larger valves, may still not flow the greatest. Small ports, and even with port work, are still not the greatest. I also went back to 6 months of time slips on my FB, and the average 60 foot was a 1.90 (on 10.5 inch slicks)so a 2.00 is not out of the question.

Ron

[Rev]

make7UPYOURS, my best 60' was 2.11 on street radials, so I agree that 2.00 60' is a reasonable goal, even on street tires. I could not tell much difference with the 2400 TCI converter, but haven't been to the strip with it yet. G-Tech showed same old 5.30 0-60 time. 2500-3000 to me is on the edge for street driving especially with the 3.80 and no overdrive. The cam ought to be about perfect for a street car. I also think Ron1 is correct about the 289 heads. Are you sure about the ports being the same size in 289's and 351W's? That's why I got the 351W's instead of using my old 289's heads. My static CR is supposed to be 9.5/1. Cranking compression is 195-200 psi. 145 seems low to me. Are the pistons flat tops? With that cam and a 3.80, I'd expect that car to melt street tires. Do a DynoJet if you can and see what the engine is doing and when. Then try to figure out what the fix is.

Rev

i think we figured this one out tonight at the track, and 2.2 60 ft. times were the result. we were told by another banger with a c-4 that we were brake torquing it way too much(2-2500). the guy said that an old car like ours stands up taller when you torque it up not letting the weight transfer quickly. he said launch it at 1200 and it worked! picked up a solid .2! also we had the timing about 3 degrees too advanced, dale said the car was pinging top end. remember how i said we had 66 small chamber heads that were shaved but ran with 12 degrees initial because thats what the called for in the 271 hi-po car.....the car ran .3 quicker and picked up about 4 mph. now we got 9.3@76mph in the 1/8. not bad for a worn bottom end dished/cast piston 302. hes getting this through a stock single points type ignition, 2" glasspacks, and a very sorry stock c-4. now i think with the 2.25 flows, pertronix ignition, 3000 tci stall, shift kit, slap shifter he's solid in the 8's. thats only like $500! well if he can get the shifter from my neighbor and we do all the work ourselves. oh, to answer the question about the heads, yes the 289 heads have the same port size as even the "good" early model 351 heads. and the 289 heads have smaller chambers too without the smog bumps. the 351 does however have bigger valves but all you have to do is put the in the 289 heads. the 1966 and earlier heads are the best. i know it sounds wrong, trust me, we shopped around. also the hi-po 289 head isnt all that impressive either. the only difference is the hi-po has spring pockets and screw-in studs.....big deal. flow no better. hate to go on here but i ran tonight also and posted 8.41 @ 83 WITH A MUCH IMPROVED 60 FT. OF 1.86. there was a 2000 viper gts there also, he ran 8.34! only .07 quicker! i feel better than shirley temple on the good ship lolipop, timeslip already posted on the fridge! now have to change my sig.

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67stang coupe, carb on 5.0, 4 speed, 4.11's....8.52 IN 1/8 @83 wanting 7's

[Skyman]

Update on the 68 mustang...

Installed the petronix ignition tonight.
Went really quick and easy.

Ran it and went 14.8@101.8mph.

The gears are terrible, but I'm still disappointed. The mph is starting to show a little potential, but the high end power just sucks! Over 4500rpm it just makes noise and doesnt pull any harder. My saleen screams to 5900rpm.

I don't get it?

Skyler

------------------
1989 Saleen Mustang #406
-----------------------
TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shorty headers, Offroad-Hpipe, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, 32deg timing w/ spout out, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb injectors, K/N, March Crank pulley, MSD6a, 9mm wires and FMS Aluminum driveshaft.

Best ET 13.2@106mph (untuned)

Gtech 14.1@112mph

[Rev]

Sky, what sort of exhaust system are you running on the '68? That could be hurting the breathing on the exhaust side and negating good intake, cam, heads etc. Is that 3.08 a Traction-lock? You won't launch well with a one-legger. In the original post you said thre were traction problems. Just a couple of thoughts.

Rev

[Skyman]

The exhaust has long tube headers, that goes back to a 2" pipe with an H, through 2 chambers, and then 2" pipe all the way out the back.

It is a 1 legger. Its hard to get between bog or spin, it does one of the other.

Sky

------------------
1989 Saleen Mustang #406
-----------------------
TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shorty headers, Offroad-Hpipe, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, 32deg timing w/ spout out, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb injectors, K/N, March Crank pulley, MSD6a, 9mm wires and FMS Aluminum driveshaft.

Best ET 13.2@106mph (untuned)

Gtech 14.1@112mph

sky, what are all the stats on this car, every detail???? i think i can help you a lot but i dont know what you got. engine description including all mods, everything. this car will outrun your fox bodied car with the same powertrain.

------------------
67stang coupe, carb on 5.0, 4 speed, 4.11's....8.41 @ 83mph in 1/8 wanting 7's

[Skyman]

Ok, heres everydetail...

1968 Mustang Coupe Sound deadening removed.
Brand new FMS crate motor.
Y302 Aluminum heads
E-303 Cam
Edelbrock performer 289 intake
600cfm holley carb (Box stock)
Full Length headers with H-pipe back to 2chambers flows. 2" pipe all the way out to the back.
Stock c4 tranny.
3.08 gears
Petronix Ignition
stock 7mm wires
stock pulleys
vacume advance
Edelbrock water pump
paper air filter
195 thermostat
Stock clutch less bolt on fan
Timing ?? Somewhere from 10-15degrees

It has good midrange power, but it just doesnt have nearly the top end pull of my 5.0. From 4000-5500rpm its just the same power, its loud, but it doesnt pull hard!
I know it has bad gears, but it should pull hard on the topend, and it doesnt.

Skyler


------------------
1989 Saleen Mustang #406
-----------------------
TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shorty headers, Offroad-Hpipe, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, 32deg timing w/ spout out, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb injectors, K/N, March Crank pulley, MSD6a, 9mm wires and FMS Aluminum driveshaft.

Best ET 13.2@106mph (untuned)

Gtech 14.1@112mph

[Skyman]

7up??

Skyler

------------------
1989 Saleen Mustang #406
-----------------------
TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shorty headers, Offroad-Hpipe, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, 32deg timing w/ spout out, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb injectors, K/N, March Crank pulley, MSD6a, 9mm wires and FMS Aluminum driveshaft.

Best ET 13.2@106mph (untuned)

Gtech 14.1@112mph

[Shaggy]

Sky here is what I would recomend first off With only a 600 carb and performer on those heads I would run a 1" open spacer between the carb and intake. secondly I would seriously suspect ignition for the lack of top end power at one point I had a stock cammed 289 that would only pull to 4000ish then I put in a mallory distributor,coil and hyfire 7 module. all of a sudden it would runn right up to 6000 (power was really done at around 5500 though)You don't have to use mallory but get a good CD style ignition on it.(the pertronix is fine for the distributor as long as your advance is working properly. I would also keep bumping up your timing to where you just about ping and slowly back off each pass till you start to slow down then put it back on the last run. Also does he have traction bars or anything? Even with the peg leg he should be cutting 2.0's to low 2.1's on his sixty.

[Skyman]

Shaggy, whats a CD style thing?

Ive been suspecting ignition too.

It has a stock distributor with vacume advance with a petronix in it. A superstock coil from pepboys, stock replacement wires. What should we do, cuz last night we went to the track.

Granted the track was at 2800feet, but the first run was 16.1@86mph. The second run was 15.6@89mph. Corrected for Altitude thats only a 15.0. Thats really pathetic.

Thanks for the help..

Skyler

------------------
1989 Saleen Mustang #406
-----------------------
TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shorty headers, Offroad-Hpipe, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, 32deg timing w/ spout out, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb injectors, K/N, March Crank pulley, MSD6a, 9mm wires and FMS Aluminum driveshaft.

Best ET 13.2@106mph (untuned)

Gtech 14.1@112mph

[Shaggy]

CD (Capacitive Discharge) Like a MSD 6 (or above),Mallory Hyfire 7 or above,accel 300+,jacobs omnipak so on and so on.... Anyway the deal is the the stock or semi stock setup like he has is Inductive Discharge The differences are at idle and low rpm (in this case anything less than about 4000)the inductive works well but your spark get weaker the higher you rev while in a Capacitive the higher you rev the better spark you get(in theory). What happens is The inductive just has a trigger (in his case the pertronix) and the coil can only saturate for milliseconds once you start to turn higher revs in a capacitive system there are capcitors (hence the name) that store up voltage to send to the coil between sparks so that you coil gets full voltage fast enough to saturate correctly. Also if your coil isn't designed for a CD system you can expect a short life out of it when it is hooked up to cd box.

[This message has been edited by Shaggy (edited 09-30-2000).]

[Rev]

Shaggy, that's a good explanation of the advantages of capacitive discharge at high RPM.

Rev