Has anyone done a 6spd conversion?

[InSaNiUm]

Are there any 6spd transmissions made for these older stangs or do people use trannys from other cars?
thanks

[72grande]

I've herd stories of a company that makes a kit to swap in a viper tans.

[CobraII76]

I've got a Richmond 6 speed in my 76 so if I can adapt it to a Mustang II you should be able to get it into just about anything. A tad pricey of course but then again so is the viper trans. I've also see a brand C 6 speed box in a stang so there are options. All it comes down to is how much skill or money you have to make it happen.

[gp001]

I put a Richmond 6 speed in my 66. The T-56 (Viper trans) is a huge trans and requires raising the tunnel sheetmetal. That trans has other drawbacks such as an integrated aluminum bellhousing and it is basically a 4 speed with 2 overdrive gears.

[72grande]

Does anyone make a conversion kit for the richmond or is it all custom?

[gp001]

No, its all custom. I don't think too many people are willing to cough up the 3 grand for just the tranny, let alone a kit with all the extras.

[MetalHead]

hey gp001, i saw on you sig that you have a Centeforce Dual friction clutch, have you had any problems with it? i've been thinking about putting in a dual friction clutch in my car but a friend of mine told me that he heard bad things about it breaking or coming apart or something. just trying to get some real experience with this clutch to see if i still want to go with it. i checked out your website, thats some funny s*** man!

[R100RT]

But not for the faint hearted or for the "rev-ers" who have to turn 7000 RPM to make power. Perfect for me as the turbos will be making plenty boost. With 3.5:1 gears, 16 tires, 2100 RPM @ 70 MPH, 197 MPH top speed @6,000 rpm. I did it because it's rare in an early car and I like different.

[gp001]

Originally posted by MetalHead
hey gp001, i saw on you sig that you have a Centeforce Dual friction clutch, have you had any problems with it? i've been thinking about putting in a dual friction clutch in my car but a friend of mine told me that he heard bad things about it breaking or coming apart or something. just trying to get some real experience with this clutch to see if i still want to go with it. i checked out your website, thats some funny s*** man!

I haven't had any problems, however, when I change it I will be goin to a SPEC clutch setup. My buddys say they are great
I'm glad you thought the site was funny. I don't know how we get anything done because we are always makin jokes and sarcastic comments while we are workin on our cars (most of which I can't put on the site)

[gp001]

Originally posted by R100RT
But not for the faint hearted or for the "rev-ers" who have to turn 7000 RPM to make power. Perfect for me as the turbos will be making plenty boost. With 3.5:1 gears, 16 tires, 2100 RPM @ 70 MPH, 197 MPH top speed @6,000 rpm. I did it because it's rare in an early car and I like different.

What mods did you have to do?
Are you using the stock T-56 bellhousing?
Which T-56 are you using?

[R100RT]

Several vendors are making ford Bell housings for the T-56.
One is D&D performance. They also have T-56s. I paid $2100 for mine, with bell and clutch. Mine was used from a guy who wanted an auto. Hope this helps.
RT

[gp001]

Do you know which T-56 you have? Is it the Viper (50% final overdrive) or the F-body/Ford version (62% final overdrive) ?

[R100RT]

Ford version, .62:1 OD

[gp001]

Just out of curiosity, why did you go with a double overdrive trans with a TT stroker setup? It would seem to me that particular engine setup would not like to run efficiently with the lower RPM. Like you said, you'll have a top speed of 197, but that is pretty useless territory.

Is this setup actually in the car yet? Or, do you still have to do the fabrication work?

[R100RT]

Main advantage of a TT setup is fast boost and gobs of torque. I have seen dyno runs, on 302, not 331 like mine, pushing 550Ft-Lbs below 3,000 RPM. With that torque, you don't need to change gears to stay in the power band. Yes, The car will never see 197MPH. I get the best of both worlds, blazing accel and fuel saving cruzing.

The car is 70% done. Major fabrication is complete. This is an old PIC as the car now sports a Spearco intercooler. Completion date should be end of this year. I still need $3,000 for the fuel cell, custom pistons, cam and Procar seats. The BMW is up for sale.

[gp001]

I like! Seems like you are doing one hell of a nice project. Can't wait to see ya finish it. Keep us posted as to progress. I hope that T-56 can handle the power. I heard the non-Viper versions are only rated at 350 hp, is that true?

[R100RT]

Thanks! I have been working long and hard. Soon, my car will be terrorizing Vetts and Vipers, I can't wait. My T-56, same as used on 94-95 Z28, rated for 450 FT-LBS. If I was in a drag car, I would be worried. The max tire I can run is 225-50-ZR16. Traction wil be a problem before braking the tranny.

Hope to have updated engine pics soon.
Regards,

[DJs350H]

Gp001,

I like your car . Your engine setup is somewhat similar to mine too. I know you know more about stangs than I, so I was hoping you could help me bench race a little???? And help me compare the benefits and cons of the T-56 vs. Richmond swap?!

I just went to the D&D Performance website and found all this information for you.

.. T56 5.0-5.8 6-Speed (440+ ft.-lbs)........$1995
(2.97 1st, 2.07 2nd, 1.43 3rd, 1.1 4th, .80 5th, .62 6th)

.. T56 4.6 6-Speed (440+ ft.-lbs)........$2295
(2.97 1st, 2.07 2nd, 1.43 3rd, 1.1 4th, .80 5th, .62 6th)

..Viper Blueprinted T56 5.0-5.8.(550+ ft.-lbs).......$2999
(550 ft.-lbs)(2.66 1st, 1.78 2nd, 1.30 3rd, 1.1 4th, .74 5th, .50 6th)

Darkhorse performance has this on their website. So I guess you could probably buy the bell housing seperately--maybe. I'm not sure if their is any difference between a Viper trans bellhousing though? I've also seen other companies that make bellhousings (I'd have to find the link again), so I am convinced it can be done.

289/302/351 T56 WITH BELL
Price: $2,299.00

R100RT what bell did you use????

Is there any difference between the Viper and your trnamisssion's bell????

I know one of the benefits of the Richmond is that Lakewood makes a scattershield, but I was also wondering if they (Lakewood) could make a custom bellhousing for a T-56??? I know they do it for drag cars.

I've been considering doing a 6-speed swap for a few years now. Gp001, I made a post a few months back on this website that you replied to, and you even replied to a post I put on your website when the forum was open--you got me doubting the T-56.

But what got me worried about the Richmond was the final drive RPMs though! I plan on running some 4.11s or numerically higher. I don't want to have to cruise on the highway like in my 4-speed with the engine revving high. I want great accaleration (actually the best possible--I know I'll never hit ) at the strip, but when I cruise on the highway I want somewhat decent gas mileage--someday I might put in EFI.

I also plan on running some TTII's 17X8" like you, but I don't know the dimensions with tires to plug into a ratio calculator??

Could you tell me what my RPMs will be with TTII's with 45 series like your tires at 65 MPH with .50 overdrive???

with .62 Overdrive??

Does the Richmond have a choice of final drive ratios???

I've been interested in the Viper T-56 since I am building a stroker motor with expected +500-high 400 horespower. I knew about the blueprinted Viper T56 because of Fast Mustang and Fords adds for years now, and they have always had the highest listed torque capacity in the magazine. So that is what got me thinking about the T-56--but I've never seen a listing for the Richmond.

What is the torque handling capability of the Richmond 6-speed???

Power handling is a concern for me because I plan on mini-tubbing for larger street tires (like 345s possibly), and I want to be able to get slicks with serious traction under there for the strip.

It also sounds like the blueprinted Viper T-56 and the Richmond cost about the same???

I saw an internet article about the D&D Viper trans and was impressed.

Just go to:
1. http://www.mustangmonthly.com/index_new.html
2. Select the Car tech link
3. Select Tech articles
4. Then use the pull downs to select
Ford, Mustang, All years, then pess go
5. The article will be under drivetrain
6. Then click on the flag

Tell me what you think????

I havent heard from anyone that has done the swap, but does the T-56 swap REALLY require cutting the floorboards????

R100RT???

The Viper trans has a little different ratios, maybe better for performance????

How do they compare to the Richmond????

Viper
2.66 1st, 1.78 2nd, 1.30 3rd, 1.1 4th, .74 5th, .50 6th
vs.
Richmond??

Thanks
Dan

P.S. Sorry so many questions, I've been trying to get a definitive answer to all these questions for a long time now.

[gp001]

WOW! That was a lot of typin

When I was doin the research for my swap I wound up with the following reasons to go with the Richmond and not the other tranys I was considering (mainly the T-56, but I was considering others as well).

The Richmond is based on the old Doug Nash 5 speeds. The gears are huge straight cut pieces, NASCAR style and bullet proof. The shifter connects via external levers and shift rods, fully adjustable. The Richmond is rated at 450 ft/lbs. You can get different ratios. I have a 3.28 1st and a .76 6th. My buddy has a 3.01 1st and .62 6th. Richmond can make one from .9 to .5 overdrive. Very minimal ?clearancing? of the tranny tunnel crossmember needed. Can use a Scattershield (readily available). 5 true gears and 1 overdrive gear.

I was told ONLY the Viper T-56(.50 6th) was rated at 450 ft/lbs. Some places modify the bearings and say 450 ft/lbs for all of them.
The T-56 is HUGE. The shifter would be located about 6" farther back than the stock location. It requires massive tunnel mods (which is no prob for R100RT because he is really making a one of a kind car). The shifter is internal and is prone to sloppiness and breaking. The bellhousings available are just aluminum bellhousings re-drilled. At the time there were no scattershields available, but I guess you could have one fabbed up. The one D&D makes is ?cast? just like the stock bellhousing. A cast bellhousing will not be much of a help if your clutch fails. The T-56 is basically a 4 speed with 2 overdrive gears, didn?t seem real practical to me (one overdrive gear is good enough).

Basically it came down to this:
Richmond is stronger than the T-56
Richmond had 5 true gears 1 overdrive, T-56 4 gears 2 overdrives
Richmond has more readily available parts (scattershield, hyd bearing, etc?)
Richmond has stronger shifter
Richmond required less cutting of the body/ tunnel cross member
Richmond would have better shifter placement in the car

As far as final RPM keep in mind that depending on your cam you could go TOO LOW on RPM. Make sure you are still within you RPM band for you cam whichever setup you go with.
I made a program to calculate MPH/RPM/Gear so I could make a wiser decision on which trans ratio to go with. Here are a few using some of the specs you posted. If you want other charts (diff trans ratio, rear ratio, etc) just let me know.

Richmond .76 od

Richmond .62 od
T-56 .62 final od

T-56 .50 final od

[DJs350H]

Gp001,

Thanks for your reply.

It sounds like the T-56 is just too much of a hassle unless you're doing custom floorboards--you finally sold me. I guess six inches back from the stock location is a big difference too, I haven't checked but that would put the shifter right next to me I guess--that wouldn't be so great.

Knowing the Richmond can be ordered with custom gear ratios is good for piece of mind, finally. Unfortunately I don't know what my cam setup is right now. My engine is at the shop and my engine builder is going to custom grind a roller cam for my application. I just told him he could grind it for power and 500+ horespower and an nice torque curve, and that I would make the gears as numerically high as needed for acceleration purposes, and that I plan on putting in a 6-speed eventually for highway cruising. He is going to dyno tune it for me when it is done (sometime this summer) so I should have a nice readout to select gear ratios with.

I agree.....one overdrive is all I'll need I suppose. Nobody drives 65 on the highways in Southern California. Basically it is all street driving, or 80 MPH!

I used to have a link that selected optimum gears (possibly the old Richmond site) but it is gone and I don't remember which parameters it used to select them. How did you select your transmission gears?? Did you and your buddy select each gear???

I think the scattershileld is a nice selling point as well. I plan on using the car at the strip occasionally and hopefully to race it at some road track. So, I think I need some protection.

As for rear gears I'm not sure what I am going with yet either. My engine project is HUGE so I don't know when I'll get the fundage for the tranny and rearend. I'll probably pick whatever gets me through the quarter mile in the quickest amount of time, but that won't wear my engine out on the highway.

I can't remember what my cruising RPM was before (my engine has almost been out for over a year and a half). I have 14" Magnum 500s with 50 series rubber with 3.00 gears and a toploader right now. I just remember the RPMs to be higher than desirable. Boy did it give me a headache on long trips--the Flowmasters don't help though.

If it isn't too much trouble, I am curious as to what your cruising RPM is at around 65 or 70MPH? Also what would the numbers look like with 4.33 gears and 4.56 gears??

Thanks again,
Dan