Rocker arm stud removal

sleeperstang · 07-31-2003, 01:15 PM

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone here knew of a tool for removing pressed-in rocker arm studs. According to my local machine shop, the price of rebuilding my heads goes up because of this.

I'd rather do the removal myself and have them rebuild the heads at that point.

Any info would be great, thanks!

Shaggy · 07-31-2003, 03:19 PM

You are getting new rockers and fulcrums right??? Wel the cheap and easy way is to take a stack of fulcrums almost to the top of the stud then take a nut and starts tightening. Once that nut bottoms out or gets enough space to put on one more fulcrum then you started with put one more on the stack and then you have enough height for the stud to be pulled all the way out. No are you staying pressed studs or converting to screw in's???

sleeperstang · 07-31-2003, 03:26 PM

I'm going to be changing to screw-in studs. Basically I have a spare set of 1966 289 Heads that I want to port and upgrade to higher performance hardware, it just seems that getting the pressed-in studs removed is what makes the cost go up.

You got any other good info on this Shaggy? Thanks for the reply!

Shaggy · 07-31-2003, 04:26 PM

A couple of things,
Port them yourself it is actually quite easy and a set or stock irons are hard to screw up as long as you stay away from the port floor.... not saying to not touch it a little but don't spend any real time on the floor because the more you remove from the floor the tighter the radius becomes on the short side and the more the air has to "bend" to flow through the port. I spent 3 weeks with a dremel porting my first set and have never looked back. I can do a set of irons usually in a day now (gotta love air). My tip o the day on the exhaust side is if you have and extra header laying around cut the flange off of it to use as a tool rest and you to can have perfectly square "professional" looking ports as well.

You can even do the screw in conversion yourself as well, when you take the heads in for the valve job you can ask them to mill roughly a 1/4" off of the rocker pedestals, you need to take a measurement of the thickness of you screw in stud nut and guide plate usually around a 1/4", and then tap them yourself since the hole is already there to tap for a 3/8 stud you just need the tap and as long as you are careful the tap will self align. If you don't take mill off the extra height then you will need a longer push rod to get the rockers to make correct contact. I poor boyed a set of 351 heads for buddy one time and we did the conversion without milling the pedestals and got lucky on a 351w with DOOE head with ARP studs and motor sport guidelines you can run a stock length hardened 351c pushrod (they are a little bit longer).

If you are going with an aftermarket roller rocker then you can usually get away with buying Chevrolet valves 1.94/1.60's, but let your machinist decide that as some I know have a hard on for not doing that. But if he will then you can save a few bucks. Tell your machinist what your cam specs are and what type it is i.e.: roller. hydraulic, solid or whatever, so he can set you up with the proper valve spring rates. I have found that some cam manufactures don't necessarily provide the proper spring rates with there cams... none have ever been so far off that they didn't work and most are dead on but I have come across a couple o three that were to low (early valve float) (typ hydraulic roller tappets) and a couple that were to high (low total lift numbers because the lifter collapses under the strain) (usually hydraulic flat tappets) a pressure for what the weight of the valves or the lifter really like to see. This is an area where experience pays off really well and you must trust you machinist on that one.

That is all I can think of for now, good luck and have fun

sleeperstang · 07-31-2003, 04:54 PM

I forgot to mention that I am planning on doing the porting myself. I was also thinking of going with bigger valves, but I'll have to see what the machine shop thinks about letting me buy the chevy valves (Ford Performance by Pat Ganahl mentions this).

As far as milling the pedestals, the machine shop guy told me that I can use a set of studs that don't have the stud nut on it, so I could skip that part together (including the expense). The heads are '66 289 heads so they have the 1/2" pushrod hole instead of the slot, so I'll definitely have to use guide plates. If I have to use longer push rods, that's fine too, MPR-281 are melling push rods with .060" more length than the standard pushrod.

Unfortunately, I don't have any spare headers, so do you have a recommended gasket for the exhaust side? This is going to be a street engine, with tri-y headers (which I already have, just haven't installed them, so I'm looking for a not-so-big gasket.

Thanks!

Shaggy · 07-31-2003, 08:06 PM

To run guide plates you have to have a stud that has a nut built into the body since that is the part that holds the guideplate securely in place. I have attached a picture if you look closely you can just see the nut under the rocker holding the guideplate in place...

Also I keep referring to it as a nut but it is really built in as part of the stud....

On the valve front you can actually get "ford" valves in the 1.94/1.6 sizes the biggest difference is they have a .05 longer tip for used with the early style rail type rockers.

As far as gaskets are concerned I would go ahead and buy just a cheap set of the Mr. gaskets that way if they get damaged during the process it won't hurt the pocket book.... and then when you are ready to bolt it all together get some good ones... fel-pros, percys, or actually I have had good luck with the hooker header gasket that comes with the super comp 351w fox body swap headers they are a real thick ceramic type, you have to trim them a little because those headers bolt on a little different they have a adaptor plate in between the header and head so the extra holes can be trimmed off.

sleeperstang · 07-31-2003, 11:30 PM

I knew that was the "nut" that you were talking about. My last question is this: Do you think that not milling the pedestals is ok? I mean, if I can get away with using longer push rods, I'd rather do that. I really haven't checked how much that would cost me, but just in case, I wouldn't mind saving a few dollars if possible.

Shaggy · 08-01-2003, 08:16 AM

A longer push rod is fine... The problem is most "custom" length hardened pushrods are around 70 a set where as you can find stock length hardened pushrods for around 30 to 40 a set if you are staying on the "cheap" side. The thing to look at is how much is he going to charge for the milling, because if he wants to much then you will have spent more then just getting the longer pushrods.

rbohm · 08-05-2003, 12:45 PM

you need to do a clean up milling on the stud boss anyway otherwise the guideplate and stud dont seat properly. the bosses need to be milled .300" to accomodate the guide plate and stud nut.

when porting the heads, concentrate on opening up the ports to match the gaskets, like shaggy said you can use cheap stock gaskets, and removing and blending sharp edges. one thing, dont match the manifold port to the gasket as you want a small reversion dam on the intake side, and on the exhaust side you want to make the head port slightly smaller as well for the same reason. when doing the bowls under the valve, concentrat on blending the sharp edges, and narrowing and shapiing the valve guides, but DO NOT remove them as you will destabilize the valve. also dont polish the ports. leave them a bit rough as it adds power over a polished port.

07-31-2003, 01:15 PM	#1
sleeperstang Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Lynwood, CA, U.S.A. Posts: 82	Rocker arm stud removal Hello, I was wondering if anyone here knew of a tool for removing pressed-in rocker arm studs. According to my local machine shop, the price of rebuilding my heads goes up because of this. I'd rather do the removal myself and have them rebuild the heads at that point. Any info would be great, thanks! __________________ 65 Mustang Coupe...Comp Cams 262 Xtreme Energy, T-5 conversion, Romac Balancer, 620 Front Springs-4.5 Mid-eye rear springs.......work in progress

07-31-2003, 03:19 PM	#2
Shaggy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Houston,TX Posts: 466	You are getting new rockers and fulcrums right??? Wel the cheap and easy way is to take a stack of fulcrums almost to the top of the stud then take a nut and starts tightening. Once that nut bottoms out or gets enough space to put on one more fulcrum then you started with put one more on the stack and then you have enough height for the stud to be pulled all the way out. No are you staying pressed studs or converting to screw in's??? __________________ A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week. George S. Patton, General (1885-1945)

07-31-2003, 03:26 PM	#3
sleeperstang Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Lynwood, CA, U.S.A. Posts: 82	I'm going I'm going to be changing to screw-in studs. Basically I have a spare set of 1966 289 Heads that I want to port and upgrade to higher performance hardware, it just seems that getting the pressed-in studs removed is what makes the cost go up. You got any other good info on this Shaggy? Thanks for the reply! __________________ 65 Mustang Coupe...Comp Cams 262 Xtreme Energy, T-5 conversion, Romac Balancer, 620 Front Springs-4.5 Mid-eye rear springs.......work in progress

07-31-2003, 04:26 PM	#4
Shaggy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Houston,TX Posts: 466	A couple of things, Port them yourself it is actually quite easy and a set or stock irons are hard to screw up as long as you stay away from the port floor.... not saying to not touch it a little but don't spend any real time on the floor because the more you remove from the floor the tighter the radius becomes on the short side and the more the air has to "bend" to flow through the port. I spent 3 weeks with a dremel porting my first set and have never looked back. I can do a set of irons usually in a day now (gotta love air). My tip o the day on the exhaust side is if you have and extra header laying around cut the flange off of it to use as a tool rest and you to can have perfectly square "professional" looking ports as well. You can even do the screw in conversion yourself as well, when you take the heads in for the valve job you can ask them to mill roughly a 1/4" off of the rocker pedestals, you need to take a measurement of the thickness of you screw in stud nut and guide plate usually around a 1/4", and then tap them yourself since the hole is already there to tap for a 3/8 stud you just need the tap and as long as you are careful the tap will self align. If you don't take mill off the extra height then you will need a longer push rod to get the rockers to make correct contact. I poor boyed a set of 351 heads for buddy one time and we did the conversion without milling the pedestals and got lucky on a 351w with DOOE head with ARP studs and motor sport guidelines you can run a stock length hardened 351c pushrod (they are a little bit longer). If you are going with an aftermarket roller rocker then you can usually get away with buying Chevrolet valves 1.94/1.60's, but let your machinist decide that as some I know have a hard on for not doing that. But if he will then you can save a few bucks. Tell your machinist what your cam specs are and what type it is i.e.: roller. hydraulic, solid or whatever, so he can set you up with the proper valve spring rates. I have found that some cam manufactures don't necessarily provide the proper spring rates with there cams... none have ever been so far off that they didn't work and most are dead on but I have come across a couple o three that were to low (early valve float) (typ hydraulic roller tappets) and a couple that were to high (low total lift numbers because the lifter collapses under the strain) (usually hydraulic flat tappets) a pressure for what the weight of the valves or the lifter really like to see. This is an area where experience pays off really well and you must trust you machinist on that one. That is all I can think of for now, good luck and have fun __________________ A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week. George S. Patton, General (1885-1945)

07-31-2003, 04:54 PM	#5
sleeperstang Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Lynwood, CA, U.S.A. Posts: 82	Yup I forgot to mention that I am planning on doing the porting myself. I was also thinking of going with bigger valves, but I'll have to see what the machine shop thinks about letting me buy the chevy valves (Ford Performance by Pat Ganahl mentions this). As far as milling the pedestals, the machine shop guy told me that I can use a set of studs that don't have the stud nut on it, so I could skip that part together (including the expense). The heads are '66 289 heads so they have the 1/2" pushrod hole instead of the slot, so I'll definitely have to use guide plates. If I have to use longer push rods, that's fine too, MPR-281 are melling push rods with .060" more length than the standard pushrod. Unfortunately, I don't have any spare headers, so do you have a recommended gasket for the exhaust side? This is going to be a street engine, with tri-y headers (which I already have, just haven't installed them, so I'm looking for a not-so-big gasket. Thanks! __________________ 65 Mustang Coupe...Comp Cams 262 Xtreme Energy, T-5 conversion, Romac Balancer, 620 Front Springs-4.5 Mid-eye rear springs.......work in progress

07-31-2003, 08:06 PM	#6
Shaggy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Houston,TX Posts: 466	To run guide plates you have to have a stud that has a nut built into the body since that is the part that holds the guideplate securely in place. I have attached a picture if you look closely you can just see the nut under the rocker holding the guideplate in place... Also I keep referring to it as a nut but it is really built in as part of the stud.... On the valve front you can actually get "ford" valves in the 1.94/1.6 sizes the biggest difference is they have a .05 longer tip for used with the early style rail type rockers. As far as gaskets are concerned I would go ahead and buy just a cheap set of the Mr. gaskets that way if they get damaged during the process it won't hurt the pocket book.... and then when you are ready to bolt it all together get some good ones... fel-pros, percys, or actually I have had good luck with the hooker header gasket that comes with the super comp 351w fox body swap headers they are a real thick ceramic type, you have to trim them a little because those headers bolt on a little different they have a adaptor plate in between the header and head so the extra holes can be trimmed off. __________________ A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week. George S. Patton, General (1885-1945)

07-31-2003, 11:30 PM	#7
sleeperstang Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Lynwood, CA, U.S.A. Posts: 82	I knew that was the "nut" that you were talking about. My last question is this: Do you think that not milling the pedestals is ok? I mean, if I can get away with using longer push rods, I'd rather do that. I really haven't checked how much that would cost me, but just in case, I wouldn't mind saving a few dollars if possible. __________________ 65 Mustang Coupe...Comp Cams 262 Xtreme Energy, T-5 conversion, Romac Balancer, 620 Front Springs-4.5 Mid-eye rear springs.......work in progress

08-01-2003, 08:16 AM	#8
Shaggy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Houston,TX Posts: 466	A longer push rod is fine... The problem is most "custom" length hardened pushrods are around 70 a set where as you can find stock length hardened pushrods for around 30 to 40 a set if you are staying on the "cheap" side. The thing to look at is how much is he going to charge for the milling, because if he wants to much then you will have spent more then just getting the longer pushrods. __________________ A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week. George S. Patton, General (1885-1945)

08-05-2003, 12:45 PM	#9
rbohm Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: tucson,az/luray,va Posts: 243	you need to do a clean up milling on the stud boss anyway otherwise the guideplate and stud dont seat properly. the bosses need to be milled .300" to accomodate the guide plate and stud nut. when porting the heads, concentrate on opening up the ports to match the gaskets, like shaggy said you can use cheap stock gaskets, and removing and blending sharp edges. one thing, dont match the manifold port to the gasket as you want a small reversion dam on the intake side, and on the exhaust side you want to make the head port slightly smaller as well for the same reason. when doing the bowls under the valve, concentrat on blending the sharp edges, and narrowing and shapiing the valve guides, but DO NOT remove them as you will destabilize the valve. also dont polish the ports. leave them a bit rough as it adds power over a polished port. __________________ define irony: a bunch of idiots on a plane, dancing to a song made famous, by a band who died in a plane crash. fordsix.com admin

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