Say I had to settle with a 302

JohnnyK · 01-20-2001, 02:08 PM

I realize it's going to be a lot easier for me to find a 302 Mustang than a 351 or 429, so I was wondering what kind of power/money ratio I can get out of it. Or, will a 351 just bolt right up? Could a 302 get 350-400 hp? Thanks

Ron1 · 01-20-2001, 03:25 PM

400 out of a 302 is very do-able. My 65 302 Dyno'd at 429 at the crank, 359 at the wheels. Add 200 more with N2O and now youve got something.

Ron

[This message has been edited by Ron1 (edited 01-20-2001).]

gp001 · 01-22-2001, 12:10 AM

400 out of a 302???? I believe that is possible ;-)

------------------
347, 279/284 .493/.510, TFS TW, Stealth, 750, Flowtech hdrs, Dr. Gas X, 2 Chmbr Flowmaster, MSD 6AL-Dist.& SS coil, Art Carr C-4, Currie 9" w/3.55, alum Drv Shft, susp mods, 4 wheel power disc
In a 66 coupe

Tom351 · 01-23-2001, 10:41 AM

I've seen cars running 9 seconds at 150mph and faster in the 1/4 mile who had to "settle" for a 302.

------------------
67 Fastback - Arctic White Pearl paint
351W ,Trick Flow Aluminum Heads, Edelbrock TorkerII, Comp. Cam, Performance Automatic C-4 Trans, 3.55 gears, Front Disc Brakes, 1-1/8" Fr. 3/4" rear sway bars.

My 351W Fastback

thunderbolt · 01-23-2001, 01:32 PM

Yes you can for all intents and purposes put a 351 in an early model mustang. A 351W will in most cases bolt right up. If you are aiming for 400hp regardless of engine cubic inches, your whole drive train will need to be gone through. Some other thoughts. Up grade brakes. You have made it go fast, now make it be able to stop all that fast. Don't negelect the body strengthing. Sub frame connectors, export brace, monte-carlo bar, maybe even a roll cage.

Ron1 · 01-24-2001, 01:12 AM

g001...I'm not sure...but did I detect some scepticism?? Have the dyno results and time slips posted on my site for the world to see.
www.rfedd.bigstep.com

Ron

Rev · 01-25-2001, 08:32 PM

I think we need to set parameters here. Obviously, a 302 could get 600 hp naturally aspirated if it was a NASCAR engine and more for strictly drag racing on gasoline. As a daily driven street car, it would come in somewhat less. We need to determine what kind of application we are talking about here. Comments?

Rev

------------------
'66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph
1/4 mi.

Ron1 · 01-25-2001, 09:06 PM

Agreed Rev...I think the request for a 350 or so Hp 302 is not unreasonable though. fordmuscle.com did an article not to long ago on a budget 400 hp in a daily driver 67 coupe. I think it is now in the archives there.

Ron

Rev · 01-25-2001, 10:24 PM

I agree with that too Ron. I'm trying for about 350 with a fairly mild street 306. I think 400 would be possible for street driven , but would require pretty low gears or a high stall due to the cam it would need. Then it might not be ideal for cruising.

Rev

------------------
'66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph
1/4 mi.

gp001 · 01-26-2001, 02:24 AM

Ron,
My reply was to the original message, not yours. I was only saying 400 HP IS possible from a 302. I was commenting on MY OWN experience (see sig) and only trying to say that its possible because mine has it. Sorry if it came across offensive to you in any way

------------------
347, 279/284 .493/.510, TFS TW, Stealth, 750, Flowtech hdrs, Dr. Gas X, 2 Chmbr Flowmaster, MSD 6AL-Dist.& SS coil, Art Carr C-4, Currie 9" w/3.55, alum Drv Shft, susp mods, 4 wheel power disc
In a 66 coupe

Ron1 · 01-26-2001, 02:29 AM

my 65 ran a lunati roller, 510 lift 284/292 duration @.050. low rumble. it dyno'd at 287 at the rear wheels with some other changes of course. t5 with a 4.11. drove it everywhere, every day. 10.00 to 1, 92 octane. a real nice highway car and at the track i would drive it there, throw on some 8.5 inch slicks, oben the n2o bottle, race it ...drive it home.

Ron

Ron1 · 01-26-2001, 09:24 PM

gp001...none taken...must have misunderstood. Sounds like you have a nice set up in your in your 66 Coupe. How do you like the 347? DSS? How is the performance? It seems the 347 has become the most popular version of all the strokers.

Ron

gp001 · 01-26-2001, 11:40 PM

Ron,
I love the 347. It really throws people at stoplights when it screams away. With the X pipe it sounds awesome. My Vette buddy said it sounds like a Trans Am race car when we cruise on the freeway. It's a Coast High 347 (well they did a little less than a shortblock - all the important stuff) and I'm REALLY happy with it and them. I haven't got to run it at the track yet (as there aren't too many here in So. Cal. - must be the lack of cars

). I post numbers when I get them. I bought a G-Tech but haven't been able to run that yet either

------------------
347, 279/284 .493/.510, TFS TW, Stealth, 750, Flowtech hdrs, Dr. Gas X, 2 Chmbr Flowmaster, MSD 6AL-Dist.& SS coil, Art Carr C-4, Currie 9" w/3.55, alum Drv Shft, susp mods, 4 wheel power disc
In a 66 coupe

Ron1 · 01-27-2001, 02:41 AM

No doubt on the "X" pipe. I get a lot of pit visitors at the track and they all ask the same question...What is that sound? Sounds awesome...big block? Eh no its a 302. It proved itself on the Dyno too, picked up about 12 HP over open collector. If you have a cable modem check out www.pscaracing.com, click on the video's and check out Manny's 66 coupe. I saw him run when I was at Speedworld Motorplex in Phoenix....ran an 8.60 that night and stood it on the rear bumper...next round he had the wheelie bars on. Think you'll enjoy the video.

Ron

[This message has been edited by Ron1 (edited 01-27-2001).]

Rev · 01-27-2001, 04:09 PM

Yeah Ron, 287 RWHP is what I consider about max for a street driven 289-302. To me, that works out to about 350 at the flywheel. That's about perfect for street/strip 289-302. At least, that's how it looks to me.

Rev

------------------
'66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph
1/4 mi.

JohnnyK · 01-28-2001, 10:28 PM

What about that c-4 tranny? How is that? I'm concerned about accel, but I also want to be able to accel good from 50-60 mph, and also have a good top end. I guess the c-4 to go outta there, eh?

Ron1 · 01-29-2001, 12:20 AM

It all depends on your gear set, how high you want the motor to spin and your highway driving, but if you are worried about strenght alone, I would rebuild the C4 and use some of the trick parts from jpt in Michigan. The absolute best with C4 & C6. They provide all lightened , hardened parts and convert the C4 to a full roller. They are installed behind a lot of 750 hp big blocks and hold up great. What is your reasoning for wanting to get rid of the C4....

Ron

[This message has been edited by Ron1 (edited 01-29-2001).]

gp001 · 01-29-2001, 12:23 AM

I would STRONGLY recommend going with an AOD ( I'm swapping my year old C-4 for a Lentech this spring), or a 5 spd, 6 spd. I have great acceleration no matter what speed I'm at, but cruising SUCKS !!!!! That overdrive is REALLY lookin good.

------------------
347, 279/284 .493/.510, TFS TW, Stealth, 750, Flowtech hdrs, Dr. Gas X, 2 Chmbr Flowmaster, MSD 6AL-Dist.& SS coil, Art Carr C-4, Currie 9" w/3.55, alum Drv Shft, susp mods, 4 wheel power disc
In a 66 coupe

gp001 · 01-29-2001, 12:26 AM

I would STRONGLY recommend going with an AOD ( I'm swapping my year old C-4 for a Lentech this spring), or a 5 spd, 6 spd. I have great acceleration no matter what speed I'm at, but cruising SUCKS !!!!! That overdrive is REALLY lookin good.

------------------
347, 279/284 .493/.510, TFS TW, Stealth, 750, Flowtech hdrs, Dr. Gas X, 2 Chmbr Flowmaster, MSD 6AL-Dist.& SS coil, Art Carr C-4, Currie 9" w/3.55, alum Drv Shft, susp mods, 4 wheel power disc
In a 66 coupe

Ron1 · 01-29-2001, 03:12 AM

For an AOD will definitely agree with the Lentech. No-one better in that business. Did anybody ask what kind of budget we are looking at here...? In terms of time and $$$. We can make a ton of recommendations but what are the limitations? Oh yea and what kind of car are we looking to drop it into. If a classic, you will probably have to start from the ground up. The older cars take a lot more work and money.

Ron

01-20-2001, 02:08 PM	#1
JohnnyK Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Guelph, Ontario, Canada Posts: 40	Say I had to settle with a 302 I realize it's going to be a lot easier for me to find a 302 Mustang than a 351 or 429, so I was wondering what kind of power/money ratio I can get out of it. Or, will a 351 just bolt right up? Could a 302 get 350-400 hp? Thanks

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01-20-2001, 03:25 PM	#2
Ron1 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Vancouver, WA USA Posts: 439	400 out of a 302 is very do-able. My 65 302 Dyno'd at 429 at the crank, 359 at the wheels. Add 200 more with N2O and now youve got something. Ron [This message has been edited by Ron1 (edited 01-20-2001).]

01-22-2001, 12:10 AM	#3
gp001 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 244	400 out of a 302???? I believe that is possible ;-) ------------------ 347, 279/284 .493/.510, TFS TW, Stealth, 750, Flowtech hdrs, Dr. Gas X, 2 Chmbr Flowmaster, MSD 6AL-Dist.& SS coil, Art Carr C-4, Currie 9" w/3.55, alum Drv Shft, susp mods, 4 wheel power disc In a 66 coupe

01-23-2001, 10:41 AM	#4
Tom351 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Atlanta,GA,USA Posts: 278	I've seen cars running 9 seconds at 150mph and faster in the 1/4 mile who had to "settle" for a 302. ------------------ 67 Fastback - Arctic White Pearl paint 351W ,Trick Flow Aluminum Heads, Edelbrock TorkerII, Comp. Cam, Performance Automatic C-4 Trans, 3.55 gears, Front Disc Brakes, 1-1/8" Fr. 3/4" rear sway bars. My 351W Fastback

01-23-2001, 01:32 PM	#5
thunderbolt Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 380	Yes you can for all intents and purposes put a 351 in an early model mustang. A 351W will in most cases bolt right up. If you are aiming for 400hp regardless of engine cubic inches, your whole drive train will need to be gone through. Some other thoughts. Up grade brakes. You have made it go fast, now make it be able to stop all that fast. Don't negelect the body strengthing. Sub frame connectors, export brace, monte-carlo bar, maybe even a roll cage.

01-24-2001, 01:12 AM	#6
Ron1 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Vancouver, WA USA Posts: 439	g001...I'm not sure...but did I detect some scepticism?? Have the dyno results and time slips posted on my site for the world to see. www.rfedd.bigstep.com Ron

01-25-2001, 08:32 PM	#7
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	I think we need to set parameters here. Obviously, a 302 could get 600 hp naturally aspirated if it was a NASCAR engine and more for strictly drag racing on gasoline. As a daily driven street car, it would come in somewhat less. We need to determine what kind of application we are talking about here. Comments? Rev ------------------ '66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph 1/4 mi.

01-25-2001, 09:06 PM	#8
Ron1 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Vancouver, WA USA Posts: 439	Agreed Rev...I think the request for a 350 or so Hp 302 is not unreasonable though. fordmuscle.com did an article not to long ago on a budget 400 hp in a daily driver 67 coupe. I think it is now in the archives there. Ron

01-25-2001, 10:24 PM	#9
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	I agree with that too Ron. I'm trying for about 350 with a fairly mild street 306. I think 400 would be possible for street driven , but would require pretty low gears or a high stall due to the cam it would need. Then it might not be ideal for cruising. Rev ------------------ '66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph 1/4 mi.

01-26-2001, 02:24 AM	#10
gp001 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 244	Ron, My reply was to the original message, not yours. I was only saying 400 HP IS possible from a 302. I was commenting on MY OWN experience (see sig) and only trying to say that its possible because mine has it. Sorry if it came across offensive to you in any way ------------------ 347, 279/284 .493/.510, TFS TW, Stealth, 750, Flowtech hdrs, Dr. Gas X, 2 Chmbr Flowmaster, MSD 6AL-Dist.& SS coil, Art Carr C-4, Currie 9" w/3.55, alum Drv Shft, susp mods, 4 wheel power disc In a 66 coupe

01-26-2001, 02:29 AM	#11
Ron1 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Vancouver, WA USA Posts: 439	my 65 ran a lunati roller, 510 lift 284/292 duration @.050. low rumble. it dyno'd at 287 at the rear wheels with some other changes of course. t5 with a 4.11. drove it everywhere, every day. 10.00 to 1, 92 octane. a real nice highway car and at the track i would drive it there, throw on some 8.5 inch slicks, oben the n2o bottle, race it ...drive it home. Ron

01-26-2001, 09:24 PM	#12
Ron1 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Vancouver, WA USA Posts: 439	gp001...none taken...must have misunderstood. Sounds like you have a nice set up in your in your 66 Coupe. How do you like the 347? DSS? How is the performance? It seems the 347 has become the most popular version of all the strokers. Ron

01-26-2001, 11:40 PM	#13
gp001 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 244	Ron, I love the 347. It really throws people at stoplights when it screams away. With the X pipe it sounds awesome. My Vette buddy said it sounds like a Trans Am race car when we cruise on the freeway. It's a Coast High 347 (well they did a little less than a shortblock - all the important stuff) and I'm REALLY happy with it and them. I haven't got to run it at the track yet (as there aren't too many here in So. Cal. - must be the lack of cars ). I post numbers when I get them. I bought a G-Tech but haven't been able to run that yet either ------------------ 347, 279/284 .493/.510, TFS TW, Stealth, 750, Flowtech hdrs, Dr. Gas X, 2 Chmbr Flowmaster, MSD 6AL-Dist.& SS coil, Art Carr C-4, Currie 9" w/3.55, alum Drv Shft, susp mods, 4 wheel power disc In a 66 coupe

01-27-2001, 02:41 AM	#14
Ron1 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Vancouver, WA USA Posts: 439	No doubt on the "X" pipe. I get a lot of pit visitors at the track and they all ask the same question...What is that sound? Sounds awesome...big block? Eh no its a 302. It proved itself on the Dyno too, picked up about 12 HP over open collector. If you have a cable modem check out www.pscaracing.com, click on the video's and check out Manny's 66 coupe. I saw him run when I was at Speedworld Motorplex in Phoenix....ran an 8.60 that night and stood it on the rear bumper...next round he had the wheelie bars on. Think you'll enjoy the video. Ron [This message has been edited by Ron1 (edited 01-27-2001).]

01-27-2001, 04:09 PM	#15
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	Yeah Ron, 287 RWHP is what I consider about max for a street driven 289-302. To me, that works out to about 350 at the flywheel. That's about perfect for street/strip 289-302. At least, that's how it looks to me. Rev ------------------ '66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph 1/4 mi.

01-28-2001, 10:28 PM	#16
JohnnyK Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Guelph, Ontario, Canada Posts: 40	What about that c-4 tranny? How is that? I'm concerned about accel, but I also want to be able to accel good from 50-60 mph, and also have a good top end. I guess the c-4 to go outta there, eh?

01-29-2001, 12:20 AM	#17
Ron1 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Vancouver, WA USA Posts: 439	It all depends on your gear set, how high you want the motor to spin and your highway driving, but if you are worried about strenght alone, I would rebuild the C4 and use some of the trick parts from jpt in Michigan. The absolute best with C4 & C6. They provide all lightened , hardened parts and convert the C4 to a full roller. They are installed behind a lot of 750 hp big blocks and hold up great. What is your reasoning for wanting to get rid of the C4.... Ron [This message has been edited by Ron1 (edited 01-29-2001).]

01-29-2001, 12:23 AM	#18
gp001 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 244	I would STRONGLY recommend going with an AOD ( I'm swapping my year old C-4 for a Lentech this spring), or a 5 spd, 6 spd. I have great acceleration no matter what speed I'm at, but cruising SUCKS !!!!! That overdrive is REALLY lookin good. ------------------ 347, 279/284 .493/.510, TFS TW, Stealth, 750, Flowtech hdrs, Dr. Gas X, 2 Chmbr Flowmaster, MSD 6AL-Dist.& SS coil, Art Carr C-4, Currie 9" w/3.55, alum Drv Shft, susp mods, 4 wheel power disc In a 66 coupe

01-29-2001, 12:26 AM	#19
gp001 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 244	I would STRONGLY recommend going with an AOD ( I'm swapping my year old C-4 for a Lentech this spring), or a 5 spd, 6 spd. I have great acceleration no matter what speed I'm at, but cruising SUCKS !!!!! That overdrive is REALLY lookin good. ------------------ 347, 279/284 .493/.510, TFS TW, Stealth, 750, Flowtech hdrs, Dr. Gas X, 2 Chmbr Flowmaster, MSD 6AL-Dist.& SS coil, Art Carr C-4, Currie 9" w/3.55, alum Drv Shft, susp mods, 4 wheel power disc In a 66 coupe

01-29-2001, 03:12 AM	#20
Ron1 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Vancouver, WA USA Posts: 439	For an AOD will definitely agree with the Lentech. No-one better in that business. Did anybody ask what kind of budget we are looking at here...? In terms of time and $$$. We can make a ton of recommendations but what are the limitations? Oh yea and what kind of car are we looking to drop it into. If a classic, you will probably have to start from the ground up. The older cars take a lot more work and money. Ron