update to old technology

70musclecar · 07-06-1999, 05:59 PM

Hello I am abit new at this so please be patient with me. Now to the crux of the situation,,, My wife and i just purchased a 1970 mach1 and are planning to do a restomod on it , I have read some of the advice you have given another individual about electronic ignitions,,,,just how difficult ist it to convert the old ignition system to a newer updated ignition say an msd system ,,,and what do i need to perform this,,,also
is there a way to put on a newer starter and alternator to get rid of the old technology???? any help would be greatly appreciated ....

------------------

thunderbolt · 07-06-1999, 11:33 PM

Welcome to the wonderful world of mustangs. The 70 Mach 1 has always been a favorite of mine. Converting to electonic is not real tough. I converted a 72 to a ford duraspark 2 system. Basically, find wireing diagrams, tie in the "brain box" to the correct ignition parts and away you go. You might want to consider a petronix system. I hear they are a breeze to instal and work great. (cheaper too) There are a ton of mods out there if originality is not a concern. Alternator can be converted, but unless I am wrong, I don't think starter technology has progressed very far. I would consider some modern safety upgrades, and if you have the money, and time perhaps transmission (Overdrive?) Brakes (4-wheel disk?) cooling system, power steering, r134 AC, etc. Just some ideas. I am sure you will get some more here.

66fastback · 07-07-1999, 01:41 AM

thunderbolt pretty much said it all. I agree , nothing to be gained starter wise. Consider a better water pump, I like the Flow Kooler myself, electronic ignition, headers and dual exhuast(if you have a v8). There are some great handling kits out there that will make these cars handle great, and ride quite well. Enjoy your new hobby.

70musclecar · 07-07-1999, 08:11 PM

Thank for the quick responce . yes the engine is a v8 (351 windsor 2v) and i have already put a new exhaust complete with cross-over pipe and flowmaster 3 chamber mufflers. I guess what i would like to do is get rid of the external starter soleniod for the started and the external voltage regulater for the alternator . I have lloked at the pertronix unit but am not sure it would fit my needs as to gain any performance .????? If I am wrong please let me know as I need to learn whatever anyone is willing to impart in the way of knowlege .
thanks again for the responces ..

66fastback · 07-08-1999, 01:47 AM

The main advantage to the Petronix or any other type of electronic ignition, is to eliminate the points. This means you never have to set points again, and you get a more consistant spark, which can have a performance and mileage benifit.

I don't see eliminating the remote solinoid on the starter as an upgrade. To me it's a step in the wrong direction. I know plenty of Chevy owners who change over to the Ford remote solenoid, because the one on the starter heat-soaks and then they can't start their car.

As far as the alternator goes, I may get beaten fiercely for this suggestion, but what I did was swap over to a GM alternator. I just ordered one through JC Whitney for cheap, and I had a single wire 80 amp alt. I used to have all sorts of problems with the old ford units not charging well enough, and my lights would dim when I was at a stop or worse yet, they would pulse. Never have had any more problems since I put on the GM. Just be sure to use a larger wire to the solenoid, as Ford never intended to move many amps with the old alternators.

Something else that I did that doesn't get mentioned much, is I moved my battery to the trunk. Here in Texas where our summers are LONG and HOT, I used to wear out batteries every couple of years. Now my battery is not only cleaner, but it is removed from the intense engine heat. Never had to buy another battery since the conversion....cleans up the engine compartment too. Of course I am planning on putting on EFI, and the space is greatly appreciated.

------------------
66 GT Fastback 5.0, 5-speed, 3.40 gears, Fuel Injection soon

Clark Rodgers · 07-08-1999, 08:57 AM

I couldn't help but notice you said 351W 2V! I have a 69 351W 4V and if you want an increase in performance and are doing a restomod changing the carb and manifold will go nicely with that new exhaust.By the way did you have the exhaust made or did you buy a kit from someone? My exhaust fell apart when I was overhauling my Trans. so now I'm working on the funding, that's what I love about these cars you start one thing and it leads to another!

70musclecar · 07-08-1999, 08:31 PM

Clark,,,, I Had the exhaust custom made as
the car was originally a single exhaust. the man that did it, did a beautiful job. It almost looks totaly stock (just a hair off of being totaly equal on both sides) .
I also plan to do a bit more to the engine such as ,,,, an aluminum intake,,a carter afb
625 cfm carb,a mild street cam,new timing
gears and chain,b&m trans-pac,and possibly
a set of 3.55 limited slip or even a detroit locker . to mention a few things ...
a bunch of the chevy guys around here have
been giving me a hard time and i have been thinking about this for a bit that is why i
got into this forum to get some ideas from the guys and gals that know....

70musclecar · 07-08-1999, 08:38 PM

66fastback,
thanks for the tips i too am having the same type of problem with the lights dimmimg and i haven't made any modifications
to the engine as of yet. I see your point
about the remote solenoid and will leave it as is... However now that you mention it i do recall a magazine article in one of the mustang magazines i have been reading and they did mention something about using a GM
alternator but they didn't give a part number
for it . Will any GM alternator work ????
Which one are you going to use ????

66fastback · 07-09-1999, 02:12 AM

When I purchased my alternator, I just looked through the JC Whitney catalog, and found a generic 80 amp GM single wire alt. I didn't really have to know what it was supposed to go on....

I think their alt.'s are pretty standard from about mid seventies to the late eighties. The pulley worked fine with my stock pulleys, but I did have to play around with the spacer and the adjustment bracket to get it to line up right. Really easy.

Only thing that I suggest is adding a volt meter to the car. When these alt.'s go out, a lot of times it's the regulator, and they start OVER CHARGING. You can spot it in a second with a volt meter. I haven't had any problems with mine....

brooksgnm · 07-13-1999, 03:54 PM

If you do not like the look of the starter relay and voltage regulator then put them inside the fender. I don't know much about the '70 cause im in with the late model crew, but all you have to do is unbolt the two and then put them on the other side of the inner fenders in the same spot with some bolts and nuts. Then unwrap the wiring going to these components and run them out to the starter relay and voltage regulator. This will eliminate any evidence of either of the two ever being there. If you are interested and have any other questions about doing this then just shout!

------------------
mark brooks. '85 gt hatch,ssm bars,draglites,msd ignition,dual quad setup,8.8 rear3.73,electric fuel pump,supertrapp exhaust,motorsport trans,many many more...
Go to http://www.tealnet.com/mustang1/mark_brooks/index.asp to see it!

07-06-1999, 05:59 PM	#1
70musclecar Registered Member Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: inwood/wv/usa Posts: 8	update to old technology Hello I am abit new at this so please be patient with me. Now to the crux of the situation,,, My wife and i just purchased a 1970 mach1 and are planning to do a restomod on it , I have read some of the advice you have given another individual about electronic ignitions,,,,just how difficult ist it to convert the old ignition system to a newer updated ignition say an msd system ,,,and what do i need to perform this,,,also is there a way to put on a newer starter and alternator to get rid of the old technology???? any help would be greatly appreciated .... ------------------

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07-06-1999, 11:33 PM	#2
thunderbolt Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 380	Welcome to the wonderful world of mustangs. The 70 Mach 1 has always been a favorite of mine. Converting to electonic is not real tough. I converted a 72 to a ford duraspark 2 system. Basically, find wireing diagrams, tie in the "brain box" to the correct ignition parts and away you go. You might want to consider a petronix system. I hear they are a breeze to instal and work great. (cheaper too) There are a ton of mods out there if originality is not a concern. Alternator can be converted, but unless I am wrong, I don't think starter technology has progressed very far. I would consider some modern safety upgrades, and if you have the money, and time perhaps transmission (Overdrive?) Brakes (4-wheel disk?) cooling system, power steering, r134 AC, etc. Just some ideas. I am sure you will get some more here.

07-07-1999, 01:41 AM	#3
66fastback Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 208	thunderbolt pretty much said it all. I agree , nothing to be gained starter wise. Consider a better water pump, I like the Flow Kooler myself, electronic ignition, headers and dual exhuast(if you have a v8). There are some great handling kits out there that will make these cars handle great, and ride quite well. Enjoy your new hobby.

07-07-1999, 08:11 PM	#4
70musclecar Registered Member Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: inwood/wv/usa Posts: 8	Thank for the quick responce . yes the engine is a v8 (351 windsor 2v) and i have already put a new exhaust complete with cross-over pipe and flowmaster 3 chamber mufflers. I guess what i would like to do is get rid of the external starter soleniod for the started and the external voltage regulater for the alternator . I have lloked at the pertronix unit but am not sure it would fit my needs as to gain any performance .????? If I am wrong please let me know as I need to learn whatever anyone is willing to impart in the way of knowlege . thanks again for the responces ..

07-08-1999, 01:47 AM	#5
66fastback Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 208	The main advantage to the Petronix or any other type of electronic ignition, is to eliminate the points. This means you never have to set points again, and you get a more consistant spark, which can have a performance and mileage benifit. I don't see eliminating the remote solinoid on the starter as an upgrade. To me it's a step in the wrong direction. I know plenty of Chevy owners who change over to the Ford remote solenoid, because the one on the starter heat-soaks and then they can't start their car. As far as the alternator goes, I may get beaten fiercely for this suggestion, but what I did was swap over to a GM alternator. I just ordered one through JC Whitney for cheap, and I had a single wire 80 amp alt. I used to have all sorts of problems with the old ford units not charging well enough, and my lights would dim when I was at a stop or worse yet, they would pulse. Never have had any more problems since I put on the GM. Just be sure to use a larger wire to the solenoid, as Ford never intended to move many amps with the old alternators. Something else that I did that doesn't get mentioned much, is I moved my battery to the trunk. Here in Texas where our summers are LONG and HOT, I used to wear out batteries every couple of years. Now my battery is not only cleaner, but it is removed from the intense engine heat. Never had to buy another battery since the conversion....cleans up the engine compartment too. Of course I am planning on putting on EFI, and the space is greatly appreciated. ------------------ 66 GT Fastback 5.0, 5-speed, 3.40 gears, Fuel Injection soon

07-08-1999, 08:57 AM	#6
Clark Rodgers Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Rowlett,Texas Posts: 306	I couldn't help but notice you said 351W 2V! I have a 69 351W 4V and if you want an increase in performance and are doing a restomod changing the carb and manifold will go nicely with that new exhaust.By the way did you have the exhaust made or did you buy a kit from someone? My exhaust fell apart when I was overhauling my Trans. so now I'm working on the funding, that's what I love about these cars you start one thing and it leads to another!

07-08-1999, 08:31 PM	#7
70musclecar Registered Member Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: inwood/wv/usa Posts: 8	Clark,,,, I Had the exhaust custom made as the car was originally a single exhaust. the man that did it, did a beautiful job. It almost looks totaly stock (just a hair off of being totaly equal on both sides) . I also plan to do a bit more to the engine such as ,,,, an aluminum intake,,a carter afb 625 cfm carb,a mild street cam,new timing gears and chain,b&m trans-pac,and possibly a set of 3.55 limited slip or even a detroit locker . to mention a few things ... a bunch of the chevy guys around here have been giving me a hard time and i have been thinking about this for a bit that is why i got into this forum to get some ideas from the guys and gals that know....

07-08-1999, 08:38 PM	#8
70musclecar Registered Member Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: inwood/wv/usa Posts: 8	66fastback, thanks for the tips i too am having the same type of problem with the lights dimmimg and i haven't made any modifications to the engine as of yet. I see your point about the remote solenoid and will leave it as is... However now that you mention it i do recall a magazine article in one of the mustang magazines i have been reading and they did mention something about using a GM alternator but they didn't give a part number for it . Will any GM alternator work ???? Which one are you going to use ????

07-09-1999, 02:12 AM	#9
66fastback Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 208	When I purchased my alternator, I just looked through the JC Whitney catalog, and found a generic 80 amp GM single wire alt. I didn't really have to know what it was supposed to go on.... I think their alt.'s are pretty standard from about mid seventies to the late eighties. The pulley worked fine with my stock pulleys, but I did have to play around with the spacer and the adjustment bracket to get it to line up right. Really easy. Only thing that I suggest is adding a volt meter to the car. When these alt.'s go out, a lot of times it's the regulator, and they start OVER CHARGING. You can spot it in a second with a volt meter. I haven't had any problems with mine....

07-13-1999, 03:54 PM	#10
brooksgnm Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Union, Ohio, USA Posts: 582	If you do not like the look of the starter relay and voltage regulator then put them inside the fender. I don't know much about the '70 cause im in with the late model crew, but all you have to do is unbolt the two and then put them on the other side of the inner fenders in the same spot with some bolts and nuts. Then unwrap the wiring going to these components and run them out to the starter relay and voltage regulator. This will eliminate any evidence of either of the two ever being there. If you are interested and have any other questions about doing this then just shout! ------------------ mark brooks. '85 gt hatch,ssm bars,draglites,msd ignition,dual quad setup,8.8 rear3.73,electric fuel pump,supertrapp exhaust,motorsport trans,many many more... Go to http://www.tealnet.com/mustang1/mark_brooks/index.asp to see it!