white smoke....and its not the tires

bmxmon · 04-22-2005, 11:25 AM

hey, i just threw in the 302, and it seems pretty solid. It runs fine now, and I did the 2,000-3,000 rpm 20 minute break in thing. I just noticed that it blows a bit of white smoke out of the exhaust now though, and was wondering what it could be. I retorqued the heads, and will probably do the intake tonight. The engine has about 100 miles on it now. it only blows white when i rev it up. From what i can see, there is no oil in the radiator. I have heard that the rings need to "seat" in, is this it? The motor runs nice and strong, just that there is the white smoke. thanks for any help

mustangII460 · 04-22-2005, 04:20 PM

White smoke = water.
Did the last motor blow a head gasket? Maybe the mufflers are full of it, water that is.

Phillyfanfrombirth · 04-22-2005, 04:54 PM

What's the weather like?

Condensation can form and spit out water for a couple minutes upon start up... especially in cool/damp weather.

Check the antifreeze level, and the color of your plugs.... they will be white if it is burning antifreeze.

bmxmon · 04-22-2005, 06:10 PM

alright, thanks guys. Nope, the other engine was fine when i pulled it, and its a brand new exhaust. I was pretty sure that the white smoke ment water, but wasnt 100%. Right now, the weather is a bit cold, so i will check see if it goes away after running for awhile. I really couldnt go by my anti-freeze level, because my thermostat is leaking. (fixing right now though) From what i can remember about my plugs, they all had a brown tan, with some of them having one brown side one white. thanks for the insight.

bmxmon · 04-22-2005, 08:09 PM

well, i rechecked the plugs,and they seem alright. Some were a bit darker than others, but most were tan. when i fired it up, i noticed that water is coming out of the exhaust, (a nice thing about side exhaust, you can easily watch it!) After running it for a bit, i noticed that the right side just seemed to shoot alot of white smoke out. While i was out there and put on a new thermostat gasket, i started wondering if I have my heater hose lines hooked up wrong. Its riged up so that the port by my themostat shares a hose with one of the water pump ports. I used a T. Could this be pushing coolant through the engine through that hole, and into a cylinder?? It just seems odd that the right side would be smoking alot, and the left side only when i rev it up. (smokes when coming back down) There is no oil in the antifreeze, or vise versa (that i can see) thanks
-------------------
its a bit cold out, but thats about it (45F)

mustangII460 · 04-22-2005, 11:43 PM

My Bronco sits outside. When ever I start it up (once a week or so) it shoots water onto my Tarus sitting next to it. It shoots a fair amount too, a trail with a big splat.

You can get do a leak down test on the cooling system if you have a pressure checker.

I think your ok though. Just keep a eye on the water level.

The waterpump has a "bypass" hose from the intake to the pump. Thats normal.

bmxmon · 04-23-2005, 08:35 PM

well, i fixed my water pump hose problem, (hopefully) I had the "bypass" hooked up to the wrong thing on the pump. The bad news is, I fired it up for my stepdad, and he thinks the smoke is blue, not white. (freaking oil, which i really didnt want) It only comes out of the right side, and what seems like a bit of white smoke(but it could be blue, i really dont know anymore) out of the left when coming down from a rev. So, what are the chances it is something other than the rings?? I really dont want it to be those..... or, is this just the rings "seating in" as the engine has about 100 miles only. Where would i get a pressure checker, and are they expensive?

Phillyfanfrombirth · 04-23-2005, 11:55 PM

Are the plugs oily?

As far as the rings... depends on what kind are in there. Normal rings generally seat pretty quickly not long after break in. Chrome Moly rings may take a couple thousand miles...

bmxmon · 04-25-2005, 03:51 PM

The plugs seem to be getting a bit darker everytime I run it. I stopped running it right after it started smoking more, and from what i can remember then, the plug itself wasnt oily, it was the threads of the plugs that seemed a bit oily. I cant remember what kind of rings are in it, I would guess normal rings, i didnt order special rings. Thanks

mustangII460 · 04-25-2005, 08:02 PM

Do a compression check. First do it dry and then wet.

Say if a cylinder is 80lbs and the rest are 100. Adding oil in the test will raise the compression up if the rings are bad. Adding oil and the compression does not come up, its in the valves. Bent/worn or whatever.

Who indexed the rings when they were installed? A bad index or rings that were not trimmed the right way can cause problems.

What kind of blow by are you getting out of the bad side valve cover?

I hope its not in the rings. Maybe a intake or head gasket.

bmxmon · 04-25-2005, 10:47 PM

So i should drain the oil, then turn it over and hook up a compression guage?? The valves should be fine, i completely reworked the heads. I installed everything, when i put in the rings, i went 120 degrees apart from each ring above it. (every 1/3 around the piston, there is the ring end gap) I didnt trim the rings, I put them in the bore, and the gap measured out fine. Not sure what you mean by blow by........if you mean oil leaking out of the valve cover, on the bad side its none, but on the good side I have oil leaking out of one of the bolt holes, but i think that my gasket just didnt get put back on right when i took it off to retorque the heads. I dont know if it matters, but i didnt get one of the bolts on the headers, the rear most one (I think my brother strippped it out....) I wouldnt think that would cause oil buring, but i might as well tell you everything, right!!? Thanks guys

Phillyfanfrombirth · 04-26-2005, 10:54 AM

He means squirting oil down the plug hole... NOT draining the oil.

By "blow-by", he means oil vapors (smoke) being pushed out the breathers on the valve covers.

As far as that header bolt... I know you are in a hurry on this one... and know how frustrating it has been, but you NEED ALL of those header bolts in there.

bmxmon · 04-26-2005, 11:01 PM

well, as far as I know, there isnt much blow-by then. Actually, a new development has occured. Before i went to work this afternoon, right after school, i fired it up, let it run for about 5mins, most of which is was smoking white pretty heavy, then, all of a sudden, it just stopped. It does blow out blue smoke when i rev it up still though. I will start it up again tomorrow and see if it just needed to get all the water or whatever was in there out just the one time, or if it is going to be a continuous thing. Also, i will try to get that header bolt in, but it could be awhile, im working like crazy right now. (i know, its hard to believe people work at kmart.....lol) Thanks.

bmxmon · 04-30-2005, 12:34 AM

well, i replaced my valve cover gasket, (which was leaking) and put in that header bolt. Drove to the nearest town with a gas station open at midnight, and went to the grocery store to get some cash for gas. After i shut it down, i noticed smoke coming from my engine bay. I poped the hood, but couldnt really see anything. So i went and got some cash and bought a flashlight, and it was my freaking valve cover leaking still! It leaks out the bolt holes, why would it do this? Then, I fired it up, reved it up a bit, and there is quite a bit of smoke coming out, black smoke. I went and got gas, and noticed the inside of my tips are covered in black residue, think enough to cover the chrome so you couldnt see the chrome, (only on the inside) What in the world could be going on?? Again, the engine sounds fine. thanks for any help, this really sucks.

COORS · 04-30-2005, 07:08 AM

if its leaking outta the bolt holes the head gaskets shot, when ya replace it remember to torque the bolts from the center and work out in a zig zag pattern, best bet is to get a manual and make sure ya torque all the bolts to spec.

Phillyfanfrombirth · 04-30-2005, 09:30 PM

I think he meant the valve cover bolt holes...

My guess would be that you are either not using washers... or something is twisted... Get out the smurf guts and coat each side of the gaskets... that should solve it.

As far as the black on the exhaust... you are running rich. This could be a number of things, but most likely it is your carb adjustments... or you are running too much carb to begin with. An upgrade at the plug might take care of a lot of that, if it doesn't or if you already have premium plugs in there... be sure to double check your ignition timing and your carb tuning.

bmxmon · 04-30-2005, 10:51 PM

Yeah, i didnt tune my carb at all, so that seems like its it. The place i bought the carb from said it was ready to go, but i guess not. Im not actually sure what size of carb i have, (its funny the things i forget) but i believe its a 600 or 650cfm. I believe i set my timing at 10 or 12. They are just regular plugs, but i will upgrade. With the valve cover, i did mean the bolt holes, i have the bolts in there, but it just comes right out from them when running. I will coat it with "smurf guts" and hopefully that will work. Thanks Phillyfan!

Phillyfanfrombirth · 05-01-2005, 08:33 AM

Holleys are never dialed in out of the box... that is the fun in having them.

Was that a vacuum secondary?

If so, you will only have the one metering block to adjust (tiny screw on both sides) turn in until the idle starts to drop off, then back off 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn... If it is a double pumper, then you will need to do the same on both metering blocks (which is the block between the fuel bowl and main body of the carb).

The floats *should* be right, but to be sure, when you remove the sight plugs (fat screws on the sides of carb) fuel should barely fill the threads of the plug as it runs... if it is too high that fuel comes pouring out, or too low that the fuel is nowhere to be found... adjust accordingly with the screw/nut combo on the top of the carb... again, there will be one in the front half of the carb, and one in the back half.

There are also adjustments to be made on the accelerator pump... which could be the culprit if you are dumping too much gas on hard acceleration. That is the screw and spring combo on the corner of your carb. If it is a double pumper, there will be two.

If you really feel like having some fun, pick up a Holley trick kit... that will come with different squirters and pump cams that can make the tuning of your carb and engine both fun and nightmarish... Too much information isn't always the cure for the novice, but it is one hell of a way to learn, burnout by burnout.

bmxmon · 05-02-2005, 10:00 PM

What kind of plugs do you recommend?? I ran out a bit ago, trying to find some plugs, but all the auto stores were closed, and the fleet store didnt have any high quality ones. Thanks.

Phillyfanfrombirth · 05-03-2005, 09:31 AM

Depends on what you want to spend...

I have a preference to Bosch Platinums... I've used the Bosch 2 plugs and like them. Bosch 4 plugs I've never used, but have installed and the folks I put them in for seemed to like them. But even the standard Bosch Platinums are better than standard plugs in my opinion. One of my friends used to foul out his plugs in his 67 Falcon every thousand miles or so with standard plugs... after he swapped to the Bosch Platinums, we were good to go for more than an oil change without having to clean them up.

If you can find them, I think that Splitfires are a heck of a lot cheaper than they were when they came out in the early 90's... We tried an experiment with them on a 302 with separate dual exhaust.

Both sides were running rich with the standard plugs... which were new. We ran a set of the Splitfires on one side and fired it back up... low and behold, that side didn't show a trace of smoke, while the other side was still running rich. That made me a believer.

04-22-2005, 11:25 AM	#1
bmxmon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 950	white smoke....and its not the tires hey, i just threw in the 302, and it seems pretty solid. It runs fine now, and I did the 2,000-3,000 rpm 20 minute break in thing. I just noticed that it blows a bit of white smoke out of the exhaust now though, and was wondering what it could be. I retorqued the heads, and will probably do the intake tonight. The engine has about 100 miles on it now. it only blows white when i rev it up. From what i can see, there is no oil in the radiator. I have heard that the rings need to "seat" in, is this it? The motor runs nice and strong, just that there is the white smoke. thanks for any help

04-22-2005, 04:20 PM	#2
mustangII460 Factoy Five Roadster Join Date: May 2000 Location: Sevier Co,Tennessee Posts: 1,681	Re: white smoke....and its not the tires White smoke = water. Did the last motor blow a head gasket? Maybe the mufflers are full of it, water that is. __________________ Frank

04-22-2005, 04:54 PM	#3
Phillyfanfrombirth Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Central PA Posts: 358	Re: white smoke....and its not the tires What's the weather like? Condensation can form and spit out water for a couple minutes upon start up... especially in cool/damp weather. Check the antifreeze level, and the color of your plugs.... they will be white if it is burning antifreeze.

04-22-2005, 06:10 PM	#4
bmxmon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 950	Re: white smoke....and its not the tires alright, thanks guys. Nope, the other engine was fine when i pulled it, and its a brand new exhaust. I was pretty sure that the white smoke ment water, but wasnt 100%. Right now, the weather is a bit cold, so i will check see if it goes away after running for awhile. I really couldnt go by my anti-freeze level, because my thermostat is leaking. (fixing right now though) From what i can remember about my plugs, they all had a brown tan, with some of them having one brown side one white. thanks for the insight.

04-22-2005, 08:09 PM	#5
bmxmon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 950	Re: white smoke....and its not the tires well, i rechecked the plugs,and they seem alright. Some were a bit darker than others, but most were tan. when i fired it up, i noticed that water is coming out of the exhaust, (a nice thing about side exhaust, you can easily watch it!) After running it for a bit, i noticed that the right side just seemed to shoot alot of white smoke out. While i was out there and put on a new thermostat gasket, i started wondering if I have my heater hose lines hooked up wrong. Its riged up so that the port by my themostat shares a hose with one of the water pump ports. I used a T. Could this be pushing coolant through the engine through that hole, and into a cylinder?? It just seems odd that the right side would be smoking alot, and the left side only when i rev it up. (smokes when coming back down) There is no oil in the antifreeze, or vise versa (that i can see) thanks ------------------- its a bit cold out, but thats about it (45F) __________________ Alex Last edited by bmxmon; 04-22-2005 at 09:56 PM..

04-22-2005, 11:43 PM	#6
mustangII460 Factoy Five Roadster Join Date: May 2000 Location: Sevier Co,Tennessee Posts: 1,681	Re: white smoke....and its not the tires My Bronco sits outside. When ever I start it up (once a week or so) it shoots water onto my Tarus sitting next to it. It shoots a fair amount too, a trail with a big splat. You can get do a leak down test on the cooling system if you have a pressure checker. I think your ok though. Just keep a eye on the water level. The waterpump has a "bypass" hose from the intake to the pump. Thats normal. __________________ Frank

04-23-2005, 08:35 PM	#7
bmxmon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 950	Re: white smoke....and its not the tires well, i fixed my water pump hose problem, (hopefully) I had the "bypass" hooked up to the wrong thing on the pump. The bad news is, I fired it up for my stepdad, and he thinks the smoke is blue, not white. (freaking oil, which i really didnt want) It only comes out of the right side, and what seems like a bit of white smoke(but it could be blue, i really dont know anymore) out of the left when coming down from a rev. So, what are the chances it is something other than the rings?? I really dont want it to be those..... or, is this just the rings "seating in" as the engine has about 100 miles only. Where would i get a pressure checker, and are they expensive? __________________ Alex

04-23-2005, 11:55 PM	#8
Phillyfanfrombirth Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Central PA Posts: 358	Re: white smoke....and its not the tires Are the plugs oily? As far as the rings... depends on what kind are in there. Normal rings generally seat pretty quickly not long after break in. Chrome Moly rings may take a couple thousand miles...

04-25-2005, 03:51 PM	#9
bmxmon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 950	Re: white smoke....and its not the tires The plugs seem to be getting a bit darker everytime I run it. I stopped running it right after it started smoking more, and from what i can remember then, the plug itself wasnt oily, it was the threads of the plugs that seemed a bit oily. I cant remember what kind of rings are in it, I would guess normal rings, i didnt order special rings. Thanks __________________ Alex

04-25-2005, 08:02 PM	#10
mustangII460 Factoy Five Roadster Join Date: May 2000 Location: Sevier Co,Tennessee Posts: 1,681	Re: white smoke....and its not the tires Do a compression check. First do it dry and then wet. Say if a cylinder is 80lbs and the rest are 100. Adding oil in the test will raise the compression up if the rings are bad. Adding oil and the compression does not come up, its in the valves. Bent/worn or whatever. Who indexed the rings when they were installed? A bad index or rings that were not trimmed the right way can cause problems. What kind of blow by are you getting out of the bad side valve cover? I hope its not in the rings. Maybe a intake or head gasket. __________________ Frank

04-25-2005, 10:47 PM	#11
bmxmon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 950	Re: white smoke....and its not the tires So i should drain the oil, then turn it over and hook up a compression guage?? The valves should be fine, i completely reworked the heads. I installed everything, when i put in the rings, i went 120 degrees apart from each ring above it. (every 1/3 around the piston, there is the ring end gap) I didnt trim the rings, I put them in the bore, and the gap measured out fine. Not sure what you mean by blow by........if you mean oil leaking out of the valve cover, on the bad side its none, but on the good side I have oil leaking out of one of the bolt holes, but i think that my gasket just didnt get put back on right when i took it off to retorque the heads. I dont know if it matters, but i didnt get one of the bolts on the headers, the rear most one (I think my brother strippped it out....) I wouldnt think that would cause oil buring, but i might as well tell you everything, right!!? Thanks guys __________________ Alex

04-26-2005, 10:54 AM	#12
Phillyfanfrombirth Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Central PA Posts: 358	Re: white smoke....and its not the tires He means squirting oil down the plug hole... NOT draining the oil. By "blow-by", he means oil vapors (smoke) being pushed out the breathers on the valve covers. As far as that header bolt... I know you are in a hurry on this one... and know how frustrating it has been, but you NEED ALL of those header bolts in there.

04-26-2005, 11:01 PM	#13
bmxmon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 950	Re: white smoke....and its not the tires well, as far as I know, there isnt much blow-by then. Actually, a new development has occured. Before i went to work this afternoon, right after school, i fired it up, let it run for about 5mins, most of which is was smoking white pretty heavy, then, all of a sudden, it just stopped. It does blow out blue smoke when i rev it up still though. I will start it up again tomorrow and see if it just needed to get all the water or whatever was in there out just the one time, or if it is going to be a continuous thing. Also, i will try to get that header bolt in, but it could be awhile, im working like crazy right now. (i know, its hard to believe people work at kmart.....lol) Thanks. __________________ Alex

04-30-2005, 12:34 AM	#14
bmxmon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 950	Re: white smoke....and its not the tires well, i replaced my valve cover gasket, (which was leaking) and put in that header bolt. Drove to the nearest town with a gas station open at midnight, and went to the grocery store to get some cash for gas. After i shut it down, i noticed smoke coming from my engine bay. I poped the hood, but couldnt really see anything. So i went and got some cash and bought a flashlight, and it was my freaking valve cover leaking still! It leaks out the bolt holes, why would it do this? Then, I fired it up, reved it up a bit, and there is quite a bit of smoke coming out, black smoke. I went and got gas, and noticed the inside of my tips are covered in black residue, think enough to cover the chrome so you couldnt see the chrome, (only on the inside) What in the world could be going on?? Again, the engine sounds fine. thanks for any help, this really sucks. __________________ Alex

04-30-2005, 07:08 AM	#15
COORS Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Lanton, MO Posts: 18	Re: white smoke....and its not the tires if its leaking outta the bolt holes the head gaskets shot, when ya replace it remember to torque the bolts from the center and work out in a zig zag pattern, best bet is to get a manual and make sure ya torque all the bolts to spec. __________________

04-30-2005, 09:30 PM	#16
Phillyfanfrombirth Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Central PA Posts: 358	Re: white smoke....and its not the tires I think he meant the valve cover bolt holes... My guess would be that you are either not using washers... or something is twisted... Get out the smurf guts and coat each side of the gaskets... that should solve it. As far as the black on the exhaust... you are running rich. This could be a number of things, but most likely it is your carb adjustments... or you are running too much carb to begin with. An upgrade at the plug might take care of a lot of that, if it doesn't or if you already have premium plugs in there... be sure to double check your ignition timing and your carb tuning.

04-30-2005, 10:51 PM	#17
bmxmon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 950	Re: white smoke....and its not the tires Yeah, i didnt tune my carb at all, so that seems like its it. The place i bought the carb from said it was ready to go, but i guess not. Im not actually sure what size of carb i have, (its funny the things i forget) but i believe its a 600 or 650cfm. I believe i set my timing at 10 or 12. They are just regular plugs, but i will upgrade. With the valve cover, i did mean the bolt holes, i have the bolts in there, but it just comes right out from them when running. I will coat it with "smurf guts" and hopefully that will work. Thanks Phillyfan! __________________ Alex

05-01-2005, 08:33 AM	#18
Phillyfanfrombirth Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Central PA Posts: 358	Re: white smoke....and its not the tires Holleys are never dialed in out of the box... that is the fun in having them. Was that a vacuum secondary? If so, you will only have the one metering block to adjust (tiny screw on both sides) turn in until the idle starts to drop off, then back off 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn... If it is a double pumper, then you will need to do the same on both metering blocks (which is the block between the fuel bowl and main body of the carb). The floats should be right, but to be sure, when you remove the sight plugs (fat screws on the sides of carb) fuel should barely fill the threads of the plug as it runs... if it is too high that fuel comes pouring out, or too low that the fuel is nowhere to be found... adjust accordingly with the screw/nut combo on the top of the carb... again, there will be one in the front half of the carb, and one in the back half. There are also adjustments to be made on the accelerator pump... which could be the culprit if you are dumping too much gas on hard acceleration. That is the screw and spring combo on the corner of your carb. If it is a double pumper, there will be two. If you really feel like having some fun, pick up a Holley trick kit... that will come with different squirters and pump cams that can make the tuning of your carb and engine both fun and nightmarish... Too much information isn't always the cure for the novice, but it is one hell of a way to learn, burnout by burnout. Last edited by Phillyfanfrombirth; 05-01-2005 at 10:19 AM..

05-02-2005, 10:00 PM	#19
bmxmon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 950	Re: white smoke....and its not the tires What kind of plugs do you recommend?? I ran out a bit ago, trying to find some plugs, but all the auto stores were closed, and the fleet store didnt have any high quality ones. Thanks. __________________ Alex

05-03-2005, 09:31 AM	#20
Phillyfanfrombirth Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Central PA Posts: 358	Re: white smoke....and its not the tires Depends on what you want to spend... I have a preference to Bosch Platinums... I've used the Bosch 2 plugs and like them. Bosch 4 plugs I've never used, but have installed and the folks I put them in for seemed to like them. But even the standard Bosch Platinums are better than standard plugs in my opinion. One of my friends used to foul out his plugs in his 67 Falcon every thousand miles or so with standard plugs... after he swapped to the Bosch Platinums, we were good to go for more than an oil change without having to clean them up. If you can find them, I think that Splitfires are a heck of a lot cheaper than they were when they came out in the early 90's... We tried an experiment with them on a 302 with separate dual exhaust. Both sides were running rich with the standard plugs... which were new. We ran a set of the Splitfires on one side and fired it back up... low and behold, that side didn't show a trace of smoke, while the other side was still running rich. That made me a believer.