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Old 10-19-1999, 10:18 AM   #1
George Klass
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Post 2000 Rule Changes - Up-Dates

The following changes will be included in the 2000 FFW Rulebook.
STREET OUTLAW
Maximum displacement 360 cubic inches for supercharged or turbocharged vehicles, 450 cubic inches for nitrous oxide equipped vehicles. Maximum deck height is 9.5"
STREET RENEGADE
Nitrous oxide fogger nozzels may be mounted on lower intake manifolds if desired. Also, the Edelbrock Victor 5.0, Pro Mustang EFI Spyder or "box type" upper intaks (for approved lower intakes) will be permitted intake manifolds for nitrous equipped vehicles.

These changes are designed to bring the nitrous equipped vehicles in both classes more in line with the supercharged vehicles and provide a more level playing field.
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Old 10-19-1999, 05:40 PM   #2
teamswill
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do you still have to use 75 mm throttle body with the spyder intake?and can i build my own spyder wannabe?
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Old 10-19-1999, 06:09 PM   #3
George Klass
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The 75MM T/B is still required. Custom intakes such as a "look alike" EFI Spyder not permitted.
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Old 10-19-1999, 07:06 PM   #4
GNKLR50
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That is some crazy bull.... I cant believe that you can make one intake legal for one power adder and the same intake illegal for another power adder.... George I hate to say it, but you're not going about evening the playing field very fairly. Maybe a bigger weight break?? Its kinda like saying that an s trim car can run an aftercooler and a Novi car cant... where do you come up with these rules?

[This message has been edited by GNKLR50 (edited 10-19-1999).]
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Old 10-19-1999, 07:30 PM   #5
SR89racer
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I have to agree i run S/R and i use NOS allowing intakes for one and not the other is really not fair if you want the NOS cars to be more competitive reduse some of the blowers you have list so the the blower cars run a little slower. Make the class for fast street cars with street blowers eliminate the novi and procharger with the 30 pounds of boost i dont think its fair to blower cars but this is Fun Fords way of making the class equal they are going about it in the wrong direction. i think they should have a class with the rules they had the first year they came out with the class thats was more fun not this mini outlaw class they have now. go back to the original rules a fogger kit wont help just split more blocks which means you have to build motors for strictly racing and whats this class name STREET renegade get the hint? should be things you find ont street cars not race only cars ok enough out of now im done venting later.
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Old 10-19-1999, 08:11 PM   #6
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I'll have to agree with ya'll that these new rules have come out of nowhere and make no sense. How come the name of this class is Street Renegade? It shoulda been called outlaw jr. Lighten the weights please please please dont allow foggers and multiple stage fogggers. it just seems that this fun ford just keeps opening the rules up more. and now, with these outlaw changes, how is this fair? i will not cry over my spilt milke but i have a 358 motor with ford motorsport block. is this now junk? do i get a waight break? i am not upset but it seems that these rules problems are happening again and again.

Future Outlaw Racer
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Old 10-19-1999, 11:33 PM   #7
George Klass
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Folks, get a grip. Street Outlaw and Street Renegade are both "power adder" classes, not supercharger classes. We are just trying to even things out between the 2 types of power adders. In S/O for instance, we have blower cars running 8.60. The quickest nitrous car has yet to go much quicker than 9.0. In S/R we have 9.60's with blowers and 10.0's with nitrous. We are talking about a half a second here. If everyone dosn't have a fairly equal chance going in, why even have a mixed power adder class? Should we have 1 class for blower cars and another for nitrous cars?
Step back and look at the big picture with an open mind and you will see that all we did is give either type of power adder a fair shot at attaining simular et's. It's going to make for better racing and that's the name of the game.
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Old 10-20-1999, 08:47 AM   #8
Ranger50TT
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Complete BULL! Then if you wanted parity between the two out of three available power adders why not slow the fastest one down with more restrictions or more weight. Or allow for a greater weight break for the slower car. But don't do the wishy washy we will allow the part for this and not for that. Besides to be TOTALLY FAIR, look alike spyders SHOULD be ALLOWED. Just because you can't sell em, doesn't mean that they should be the only style that is legal. Besides if the class was a true power adder class ALL forms of artifical aspiration would be allowed.
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Old 10-20-1999, 03:22 PM   #9
SR89racer
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Does anyone really think an these intakes will make a NOS car any faster over one that is already listed maybe for a blower car but not NOS i think now how is that gonna make the NOS cars more competitive and as far as a weight break you have to give NOS cars at least 400 pounds that means a 3000 pound car running against a 3400 pound blower car that seems a little unfair slow the blower cars down get rid of the all out race blowers .
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Old 10-20-1999, 07:49 PM   #10
Boosted
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New Street Renegade rule change!!!

NOVI 3000, MONDO XX, and JATO rockets now legal for NOS cars, so they can run with the boosted cars.

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Old 10-20-1999, 08:29 PM   #11
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The "Man's" intake is legal, but no other Vic. Jr. converted to EFI intakes are. VERY WISHY WASHY George. Like a previous post stated, just b/c you dont sell them and make money off of them should not mean they can't be used. You might as well say "If you dont spend your $XXX dollars with me, you cant use it. You have to use a lesser intake that wont let you be as fast. Spend money with me, or go slower."

BTW, how are you gonna be able to tell if its AUTHENTIC CHP? You gonna put a label on it? You better do something, b/c making someone buy YOUR intake to be faster and legal in that class, that is straight BS.

I am not against allowing the spyder to be used, but I am against not letting people have their own converted and used. Then again, its all about money, isn't it? In this case, we can see that's what it is about.

Hmmph,

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Old 10-20-1999, 09:28 PM   #12
jmb331
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well...it never changes.....I have been running in Fun Ford for 8 years, and it still keeps changing.I understand that thing have to change with the time, but there needs to be some sane way for them to change. I'm a s/o racer that just droped over $10,000 on a race motor( short block) just to be compitive and now with the storke of a hand I am going to get sucked up.I was building a Bennett 343 N2o motor to run but because some crazy person decided that they would allow bigger motors and not add weight to the blower cars I am not going to stand a chance.Some people work and save there money to build a nice motor, and that takes time. George as for YOUR intake being legal for s/r and not the others that may be the biggest bull shit that i have ever heard from fun(the little guy does not stand a chance)ford group.You need to get in the real world.
Mark Buchanan


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[This message has been edited by jmb331 (edited 10-20-1999).]
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Old 10-21-1999, 09:30 PM   #13
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George,
The more that I look at these changes the more that is stupid.You said that"These changes are designed to bring the nitrous vechicles in both classes more in line with the supercharged"...well unless I am missing something , there is NO N2O car in S/O with those sized motors! All this is doing is bring something different in to the class. What about all of us people with "small" motors? Are you just going to tell us tough luck? Go get a bigger motor? These rules changes ARE NOT HELPING the people that are in the class right now!

Mark Buchanan


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Old 10-21-1999, 10:09 PM   #14
SR89racer
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well it looks like you guys are gonna keep changing the rules to go all kinds of ways and i have come to the conclusion that i am not gonna run in street renegade (a.k.a jr outlaw) for a few years until you get this class straightend out and get this class equal and fair for everyone this is getting way out of hand and rediculous see you in a few years and im sure there is alot of people that feel the same way. its not woth it next rule change will be your allowed a bigger motor in S/R for nos cars only. get the rules straightend out and maybe ill come back some day.
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Old 10-21-1999, 10:43 PM   #15
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NMRA is the way to go for "Street Renegade"..better payouts..and better rules. They are geared more toward the "street" mustang. NMRA, for example, isn't allowing aluminum rods. They are trying to keep the competitive cars in the 10 sec range like they should be.
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Old 10-22-1999, 08:13 AM   #16
George Klass
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And how is NMRA going to check for aluminum rods? Is their tech going to have everyone remove the engine and pull the pan? Looking down the distributor hole is not conclusive. We had one competitor with aluminum rods anodixe them black. With the minimum view they looked like steel rods. And if you think that the Renegade cars in ANY organization is only going to run in the 10's you are sadly mistaken. It's a "race car" class with some component limitations. Maybe it wasn't intended to be but that's what it turned out to be. The last time I checked the NMRA Renegade rules they permitted the same superchargers that FFW does. We are not trying to make the Renegade cars go faster, just allow the nitrous racers to be competitive.
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Old 10-22-1999, 12:02 PM   #17
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All I am saying is that it is a good idea to not allow such things as aluminum rods and some of the superchargers and some nitrous systems. It is a street oriented class..how many people run aluminum rods and nitrous fogger systems or D1 superchargers on the street?
Many of the top renegade racers run expensive aluminum rods, A4 blocks, etc.
The cost to race in this class should stay within reason and not shoot out of control to where it is basically the same as Outlaw with a few more restrictions.
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Old 10-22-1999, 06:37 PM   #18
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George,
No answer to my last post?

Mark Buchanan
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Old 10-22-1999, 07:14 PM   #19
George Klass
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The reason for allowing larger nitrous engines than the 360" blower motors is this. The supercharged Outlaw motor, just like in the Pro 5.0 class is usually a 347-360" engine. An engine like Murillo's probably makes about 1300 HP. This is about the same as a motor like Jim Summers engine. The nitrous Pro 5.0 engines usually are around 400". They too probably make about 1300 HP. What we are trying to do is to make sure that the nitrous Outlaw racers have the same HP opportunities as the blower/turbo racers. What is so hard to understand about this. As it is now, we have Outlaw blower cars running 8.60 and nitrous Outlaw cars running 9.0's. How much HP do you think a 360" nitrous engine makes? I'm guessing about 1000 HP. If the extra 50" permitted in the new rules make about 3 HP per cubic inch more, the nitrous cars will still be behind the curve, but at least it should narrow the gap. In a nutshell, the blower Outlaw guys are running a Pro 5.0 engine in an Outlaw car, and the nitrous guys can't. We are just trying to fix that a little. It's not going to make tha Outlaw class faster, just bring the nitrous guys up to the level of the blower guys. Why would anyone be angry about that? I understand that some nitrous guys will have the opportunity to change their combination and some will choose not to. Thats up to the racers.
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Old 10-22-1999, 07:14 PM   #20
George Klass
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The reason for allowing larger nitrous engines than the 360" blower motors is this. The supercharged Outlaw motor, just like in the Pro 5.0 class is usually a 347-360" engine. An engine like Murillo's probably makes about 1300 HP. This is about the same as a motor like Jim Summers engine. The nitrous Pro 5.0 engines usually are around 400". They too probably make about 1300 HP. What we are trying to do is to make sure that the nitrous Outlaw racers have the same HP opportunities as the blower/turbo racers. What is so hard to understand about this. As it is now, we have Outlaw blower cars running 8.60 and nitrous Outlaw cars running 9.0's. How much HP do you think a 360" nitrous engine makes? I'm guessing about 1000 HP. If the extra 50" permitted in the new rules make about 3 HP per cubic inch more, the nitrous cars will still be behind the curve, but at least it should narrow the gap. In a nutshell, the blower Outlaw guys are running a Pro 5.0 engine in an Outlaw car, and the nitrous guys can't. We are just trying to fix that a little. It's not going to make tha Outlaw class faster, just bring the nitrous guys up to the level of the blower guys. Why would anyone be angry about that? I understand that some nitrous guys will have the opportunity to change their combination and some will choose not to. Thats up to the racers.
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