Cam Questions

Rosco · 03-17-2002, 01:41 AM

Well it has come to me that all's i'm going to be installing this summer is a full exhaust, (headers to mufflers) and possibly a cam. I've been told that you DO hafto pull the engine to install full length headers, which I am planning to get BBK 1-5/8", and was thinking If i hafto pull the engine might as well stick a cam in it and fix my rear main seal leak. Now, my question is, should I get a cam? Like a B303 or an E303, as someone in my area with one of those, (don't really remeber what he said it was. they sound so alike, B and E..heh) I would assume he had a B303 cam because he said it had just a little more lift then the stock cams. Now he doesn't have anything else done to his, just a cam, and mufflers, and he's getting a pretty mean sound out of it. I was also wondering, if I am to put a cam in my stock motor, what kinda cams are made for stock motors? (simple question eh?) Well, that is if there are any made for stock motors. Thanks Alot guys.

tireburner163 · 03-17-2002, 02:04 AM

There's really no need to cam a stock motor.

tireburner163 · 03-17-2002, 02:06 AM

I just took a look at you sig. Do you not have gears? I HIGHLY recomend you get a set.

03-17-2002, 05:05 AM

Quote:

I've been told that you DO hafto pull the engine to install full length headers

Nope,all you need to do is loosen your motor mounts,then jack the motor up using a 2x4 and hydraulic jack,then you will be able to slide the header up from the bottom of the car.

no need for a cam change either

PKRWUD · 03-17-2002, 09:22 AM

With stock heads, a cam really isn't worth the time or effort. Small block Fords really work best when you replace the parts together (intake/cam/heads). Save your money and plan it's future. When you reach the required amount, start ordering your parts. You'll be much more satisfied doing it this way.

Take care,
-Chris

drudis · 03-17-2002, 09:33 AM

A cam is a LOT of work, and on a stock motor, all you'll do is kill bottom end, and the heads are too restrictive to make any tope end power, so basically you wasted your money.

GET GEARS!!! With 3.73's (versus stock) , it'll feel like you added nitrous to the car...

Rosco · 03-17-2002, 11:02 AM

Alright well that does sound great. So no cam for me, that'll all just be next year. I think actually i might end up going with that Systemax II 350 hp kit. It'll probably cost around...$3k which is including all the other parts i'd need like a new fuel pump and injectors and stuff. How hard is it to install things like a throttle body and injectors? Also, is there anything else i can really do other then exhaust and gears? Yeah, i got the Ol stock 2.73's in there, I would think they are the 2.73's becuase 55 at 1500 in 5th gear. Does that sound right for 2.73's? Well i'm trying to get ahold of the kid i bought the car from, becuase he's got 3.55's for the car that he never put in, and he'd give um to me for $100. Which i think is a great deal. By the way are those really hard to install as well? As far as i've been told is i hafto pull the pumpkin off and that's about all

Rosco · 03-17-2002, 11:03 AM

Also, I'm gonna get a cold air intake, fenderwall. Any opinions on what is the best? Oh yeah, would 1.7" RR's be any help at all with my stock motor? I'm not really sure what the heads come with stock RR's.

Unit 5302 · 03-17-2002, 01:44 PM

The 1.7 roller rockers are fine. Don't expect to pick up much power with them, though. Basically what the rockers do is give a mild cam effect. You don't really need any more cam, but the valvetrain friction will drop.

Gear installtion is left best to a professional, expect the install to run about $200-250.

1500 at 55mph sounds a lot like 2.73's, but I'm assuming you're going by the factory tach, which can be off quite a bit. Best way to tell is jack the car up and have somebody rotate the wheel. 1 Spin on the wheel should be 2.75 revolutions on the driveshaft. In any case, you've most likely got stock gears, 2.73 or 3.08.

PKRWUD · 03-17-2002, 05:34 PM

Just on a side note, 1.7 rockers actually increase the load in the valvetrain, rather than lessen it. I wouldn't do it if I were you.

Take care,
-Chris

Rosco · 03-17-2002, 05:53 PM

Well what about the 1.6" RR's? any help at all? I've been told bigger rr's will give you a somewhat better throttle response as well? Any comments?

PKRWUD · 03-17-2002, 06:06 PM

1.6 rr's would reduce the load on your valvetrain, and would be a good purchase from a preventative maintenance standpoint. 1.7's will increase the load on your valvetrain, for minimal results. Get a savings account and put the money there. When there's enough, buy ALL the right parts the first time out.

Take care,
-Chris

Rosco · 03-17-2002, 06:15 PM

What size RR's are in the stock heads now? I really wish I had a sheet that gave me all these details about just about every part in the freaking car, would help out so much. Actually i've decided that i'm just gonna go with some exhaust this year. Save up and possible get my engine done up for a S/C or possibly the SysteMax II 350 Hp kit. I believe that the exhaust would be a good place to start and stop for this summer. Then next summer, comes the real mods.

PKRWUD · 03-18-2002, 05:46 AM

Excellent idea.

The rocker arm ratio for your engine was and is 1.6. Your rockers are stamped steel, and create quite a bit of friction. The rockers we have been referring to are Roller Rockers (RR's). They are designed differently, and haveat their center a roller needle bearing trunion, which virtually eliminates any friction. Most serious engine builders install roller rockers in their engines, and are usually the stock 1.6 ratio. The 1.7 roller rockers have the advantages of being roller (less friction), but because they are longer, they actually create a great deal of load on the valvetrain. Most consider them a poor mans camshaft upgrade, but even that is false, because the lift is the only thing that is really changed.

Take care,
-Chris

PKRWUD · 03-18-2002, 05:50 AM

Also, the single best statistical, informative Mustang book available is called "The Official Ford Mustang 5.0 technical Reference & Performance Handbook, 1979 through 1993". It is Ford Racing part #M-1832-Z4, and is also available at most larger book stores. $34.95

Awesome book.

Take care,
-Chris

03-17-2002, 01:41 AM	#1
Rosco Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Vestal, NY Posts: 307	Cam Questions Well it has come to me that all's i'm going to be installing this summer is a full exhaust, (headers to mufflers) and possibly a cam. I've been told that you DO hafto pull the engine to install full length headers, which I am planning to get BBK 1-5/8", and was thinking If i hafto pull the engine might as well stick a cam in it and fix my rear main seal leak. Now, my question is, should I get a cam? Like a B303 or an E303, as someone in my area with one of those, (don't really remeber what he said it was. they sound so alike, B and E..heh) I would assume he had a B303 cam because he said it had just a little more lift then the stock cams. Now he doesn't have anything else done to his, just a cam, and mufflers, and he's getting a pretty mean sound out of it. I was also wondering, if I am to put a cam in my stock motor, what kinda cams are made for stock motors? (simple question eh?) Well, that is if there are any made for stock motors. Thanks Alot guys. __________________ 1989 Mustang 5.0 Conversion, Full Saleen ground effects and spoiler, '94 saleen decal set, '93 Saleen Seats, Black interior from a '93, Steeda quadrant, smog pump delete, a/c delete, Steeda Tri-Ax shifter, '97 rear differential, aluminum driveshaft, 5 lug conversion, '97 rear disc brakes, southside upper and lower control arms, '99 GT Anniversary wheels, flowtech longtubes, flowtech offroad H-pipe, saleen lowering springs, kyb shocks, caster/camber plates

03-17-2002, 02:04 AM	#2
tireburner163 It's a lot like a race car Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Meridian, MS Posts: 4,130	There's really no need to cam a stock motor. __________________ 1987 Buick T-type 1998 HD Electra Elide

03-17-2002, 02:06 AM	#3
tireburner163 It's a lot like a race car Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Meridian, MS Posts: 4,130	I just took a look at you sig. Do you not have gears? I HIGHLY recomend you get a set. __________________ 1987 Buick T-type 1998 HD Electra Elide

03-17-2002, 09:22 AM	#5
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	With stock heads, a cam really isn't worth the time or effort. Small block Fords really work best when you replace the parts together (intake/cam/heads). Save your money and plan it's future. When you reach the required amount, start ordering your parts. You'll be much more satisfied doing it this way. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

03-17-2002, 09:33 AM	#6
drudis Moderator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Livonia, MI, USA Posts: 1,194	A cam is a LOT of work, and on a stock motor, all you'll do is kill bottom end, and the heads are too restrictive to make any tope end power, so basically you wasted your money. GET GEARS!!! With 3.73's (versus stock) , it'll feel like you added nitrous to the car... __________________ Darius Rudis, Moderator Corner Carvers Delight 1989 Mustang LX - Open Track Car http://www.dariusrudis.com

03-17-2002, 11:02 AM	#7
Rosco Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Vestal, NY Posts: 307	Alright well that does sound great. So no cam for me, that'll all just be next year. I think actually i might end up going with that Systemax II 350 hp kit. It'll probably cost around...$3k which is including all the other parts i'd need like a new fuel pump and injectors and stuff. How hard is it to install things like a throttle body and injectors? Also, is there anything else i can really do other then exhaust and gears? Yeah, i got the Ol stock 2.73's in there, I would think they are the 2.73's becuase 55 at 1500 in 5th gear. Does that sound right for 2.73's? Well i'm trying to get ahold of the kid i bought the car from, becuase he's got 3.55's for the car that he never put in, and he'd give um to me for $100. Which i think is a great deal. By the way are those really hard to install as well? As far as i've been told is i hafto pull the pumpkin off and that's about all __________________ 1989 Mustang 5.0 Conversion, Full Saleen ground effects and spoiler, '94 saleen decal set, '93 Saleen Seats, Black interior from a '93, Steeda quadrant, smog pump delete, a/c delete, Steeda Tri-Ax shifter, '97 rear differential, aluminum driveshaft, 5 lug conversion, '97 rear disc brakes, southside upper and lower control arms, '99 GT Anniversary wheels, flowtech longtubes, flowtech offroad H-pipe, saleen lowering springs, kyb shocks, caster/camber plates

03-17-2002, 11:03 AM	#8
Rosco Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Vestal, NY Posts: 307	Also, I'm gonna get a cold air intake, fenderwall. Any opinions on what is the best? Oh yeah, would 1.7" RR's be any help at all with my stock motor? I'm not really sure what the heads come with stock RR's. __________________ 1989 Mustang 5.0 Conversion, Full Saleen ground effects and spoiler, '94 saleen decal set, '93 Saleen Seats, Black interior from a '93, Steeda quadrant, smog pump delete, a/c delete, Steeda Tri-Ax shifter, '97 rear differential, aluminum driveshaft, 5 lug conversion, '97 rear disc brakes, southside upper and lower control arms, '99 GT Anniversary wheels, flowtech longtubes, flowtech offroad H-pipe, saleen lowering springs, kyb shocks, caster/camber plates

03-17-2002, 01:44 PM	#9
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	The 1.7 roller rockers are fine. Don't expect to pick up much power with them, though. Basically what the rockers do is give a mild cam effect. You don't really need any more cam, but the valvetrain friction will drop. Gear installtion is left best to a professional, expect the install to run about $200-250. 1500 at 55mph sounds a lot like 2.73's, but I'm assuming you're going by the factory tach, which can be off quite a bit. Best way to tell is jack the car up and have somebody rotate the wheel. 1 Spin on the wheel should be 2.75 revolutions on the driveshaft. In any case, you've most likely got stock gears, 2.73 or 3.08.

03-17-2002, 05:34 PM	#10
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Just on a side note, 1.7 rockers actually increase the load in the valvetrain, rather than lessen it. I wouldn't do it if I were you. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

03-17-2002, 05:53 PM	#11
Rosco Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Vestal, NY Posts: 307	Well what about the 1.6" RR's? any help at all? I've been told bigger rr's will give you a somewhat better throttle response as well? Any comments? __________________ 1989 Mustang 5.0 Conversion, Full Saleen ground effects and spoiler, '94 saleen decal set, '93 Saleen Seats, Black interior from a '93, Steeda quadrant, smog pump delete, a/c delete, Steeda Tri-Ax shifter, '97 rear differential, aluminum driveshaft, 5 lug conversion, '97 rear disc brakes, southside upper and lower control arms, '99 GT Anniversary wheels, flowtech longtubes, flowtech offroad H-pipe, saleen lowering springs, kyb shocks, caster/camber plates

03-17-2002, 06:06 PM	#12
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	1.6 rr's would reduce the load on your valvetrain, and would be a good purchase from a preventative maintenance standpoint. 1.7's will increase the load on your valvetrain, for minimal results. Get a savings account and put the money there. When there's enough, buy ALL the right parts the first time out. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

03-17-2002, 06:15 PM	#13
Rosco Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Vestal, NY Posts: 307	What size RR's are in the stock heads now? I really wish I had a sheet that gave me all these details about just about every part in the freaking car, would help out so much. Actually i've decided that i'm just gonna go with some exhaust this year. Save up and possible get my engine done up for a S/C or possibly the SysteMax II 350 Hp kit. I believe that the exhaust would be a good place to start and stop for this summer. Then next summer, comes the real mods. __________________ 1989 Mustang 5.0 Conversion, Full Saleen ground effects and spoiler, '94 saleen decal set, '93 Saleen Seats, Black interior from a '93, Steeda quadrant, smog pump delete, a/c delete, Steeda Tri-Ax shifter, '97 rear differential, aluminum driveshaft, 5 lug conversion, '97 rear disc brakes, southside upper and lower control arms, '99 GT Anniversary wheels, flowtech longtubes, flowtech offroad H-pipe, saleen lowering springs, kyb shocks, caster/camber plates

03-18-2002, 05:46 AM	#14
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Excellent idea. The rocker arm ratio for your engine was and is 1.6. Your rockers are stamped steel, and create quite a bit of friction. The rockers we have been referring to are Roller Rockers (RR's). They are designed differently, and haveat their center a roller needle bearing trunion, which virtually eliminates any friction. Most serious engine builders install roller rockers in their engines, and are usually the stock 1.6 ratio. The 1.7 roller rockers have the advantages of being roller (less friction), but because they are longer, they actually create a great deal of load on the valvetrain. Most consider them a poor mans camshaft upgrade, but even that is false, because the lift is the only thing that is really changed. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

03-18-2002, 05:50 AM	#15
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Also, the single best statistical, informative Mustang book available is called "The Official Ford Mustang 5.0 technical Reference & Performance Handbook, 1979 through 1993". It is Ford Racing part #M-1832-Z4, and is also available at most larger book stores. $34.95 Awesome book. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

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