Race Renegade

Zane Bates · 09-02-1999, 10:13 PM

Seems like Renegade has turned into an expensive race class that the common street Mustang can no longer be competitive.Why could'nt this class have been left alone instead of allowing the T trim and the new procharger and novi.How is this a street clas when a race engine is needed to be competitive.I bet there aren't any stock blocks in the three fastest cars.Last year ended with cars in the 10.20 range thios year will end in the 9.60.Whats next r trims and 9.30.

Quick50 · 09-08-1999, 10:35 PM

I agree. As I said before, it is a class that is allowing things that you won't find on most normal "street power adder mustangs". How about limiting the class to 2.5" exhaust and late model production blocks (no expensive SVO blocks). That would force Renegade to have street driven level of performance.

George Klass · 09-09-1999, 08:18 AM

Both of you guys are correct. Street Renegade, like all of the other Shootout classes (including Trophy Stock) are for cars designed to be competitive, within the class rules. Basically, streetable cars are just not competitive. It's just not possible to create any kind of "heads-up" class in which someone doesn't build a "race only" car for the class. The rules are imaterial. Does anyone believe that an 8 or 9 sec. True Street car is a street car? I doubt it. So, where does that leave the racer with an actual street machine? Either running in True Street on Saturday (where we award the quickest 9, 10, 11, 12, etc. cars equally) or in the bracket or Open Comp type classes. Truth is that Heads-up classes are race car classes. By the way, at the first Street Renegade race that we ever held (Spring Break Shootout, March '98) someone ran a 10.38. This was before Novi's, D1's, etc. I guess that it always was a serious race class, even though FFW didn't want it to be.

SR89racer · 09-09-1999, 08:32 PM

Yes someone did run a 10.38 but the class was compettitive now if you dont run high 9's you might as well not run. I have to agree with alot of people that this class is getting out of hand especially with the blower cars. They are dominating this class and have so many options on which one to use nitrous cars are limited to only certain kits and on how much can be sprayed.You would have to use 2 kits and a very good bottom end and alot of money in which some people dont have to be able to go 9's in this claassi think the blower cars should be limited on how much boost they are allowed this class is gonna lose alot of people to run in it if this continuse to get this crazy alot of people are getting upset and it shouldnt be that way this class is turning into a mini outlaw class and something should be done i remember how much fun it was the first year now its no fun cause its to serious. well hope to see ya all at bradenton next year.

Zane Bates · 09-09-1999, 09:44 PM

As usual George sides with the money.The class was very competitive last year and is now a Bob and Chip show.We can not all aford race cars but we all have street cars.Seems like the NMRA is listening to the racers and are trying to keep the feild level in the renegade class.Maybe when my car is done I guess I'll have to settle and race were I'm competitive.Oh it looks like it won't be here and it's your choice not mine.

George Klass · 09-09-1999, 10:02 PM

What money are you talking about, Zane? Usually I don't respond to BS like this but I'm feeling good tonight. Speaking for myself and not FFW, I've got news for you, Zane. Your street car is not going to be competive with any organization, not FFW, not NMRA, not WFC. Street cars are for the street. The winning Renegade cars have all been built for the class. They may have started out on the street, but they are race cars now. If you want to race, you better build a race car. It's just that simple. No one is asking if you like it; it's just the way it is. Grow up.

Joe T/S #25 · 09-09-1999, 10:42 PM

I'm not involved with the renegade class but I have to agree with George. The rules are set and everyone has to play along. If a class is too expensive, maybe there is another class to enter that is less expensive. I know a few guys that run in renegade and they still drive their cars on the street even running low 10's. Maybe not every day, but they still see the street on weekends. Trophy Stock is probably the only class were at least half the guys I know still use their cars as a daily driver. Rules are rules and we have to follow them if we're the fastest or slowest in our respective classes.

Joe T/S #25
12.83 @ 107.89

MY12SECGT · 09-10-1999, 03:25 PM

If you want to run a class where you have a chance to win but cant afford to run it. I suggest you run true street. this year they paid out for the fastest car in each 10, 11 ,12, 13 ,14, and 15 sec catigory. I ran my first FFW this year and ran true street, since my car wasnt competitive in any other class and not legal in Trophy Stock. True Street is a fun class and I had a great time. People in the class are very friendly and pretty much a wide open class as long as you make the 30 mile cruise and 3 back to back passes. Personal attacks on George are uncalled for and should not be put on this board. When I add my power adder the only class that will be legal for my 83 GT will be S/O class but you dont see me complaining about it look for another class or build a motor that will be competitive.

Rex

------------------
1983 GT 306 w/GT-40 heads
Best 1/4
12.997@102.89 1.754 60ft

Best 1/8
8.090@83.6 1.685 60ft

SR89racer · 09-10-1999, 04:16 PM

well if what Geoerge Klass says is true then this class is no longer for street driven cars and for race cars now so much for a fun class cause once that happens might as not even race and everyone wonders why there is so much street racing going on cause thats the only place people have a chance to win. as usual this class got out of hand just like outlaw did.

Saleen7 · 09-10-1999, 08:33 PM

do you think that street racing doesn't have race cars in it also , WAKE UP ...there are more pure race cars out on a weekend night taking money than you can imagine !!! So what do you do on the street when a guys says lets run , and you know he has a alum rod, 347 with a blower ??? Do you say take the blower belt off!! Hell no you don't race , but you will watch him run ....soooo don't race FFW . Nobody ever said it was a street class. .... there are no street class' . Hell TS wasn't even a street class .
If you guys spend alittle less time complaining about the blowers and what not and either change your combo like others have , you may have some fun ...Remember you do not have to win to have fun. if a car is following the rules that are laid down then fine ....and yes there is a Nitrous car that may just very well be faster than the rest. If I choose to build an all out race motor by the rules on my street car that I used to drive everyday then more power to me . Get your nose's out of the maazines and build a car .. if you do the math its not that much difference in price ....!!!
you can buy any blower , any block any intake ..its all there and around the same prices. Soend alittle less time pointing fingers and get up and race !!!

DarkGT · 09-11-1999, 10:59 PM

I have to agree with SR89Racer...he and i know what renegade is like. It seems to be getting out of hand..but that is the nature of the sport. What i would like to know is, is there any chance of NOS cars getting some breaks to be more competitive???

Zane Bates · 09-12-1999, 09:14 PM

As usual the meaning of the message has been misunderstood.As you no last year a stock block aluminum heads and an s trim and you were racing competivly.And for your information you can't build a car that adheres to these rules because they are consantley changing to make the class faster not more competitive.You can not build a car to rules that are liquid.Well i do have a street car that gets 20 mpg runs low 11 sec times with 26 x 8.5 et streets and a stock short block with a 150 thousand miles on it.I now thats not race car territory but I could at least have some fun with last years Renegade cars.

JCSTANG · 09-13-1999, 12:55 AM

I run true street for the first time this year. I had to run beside the quickest car in the field (10.3something). But on sunday, my check from bill alexander was for the same amount even thou I only won the 14 sec. ave.. My stock motor with nitrous won the same amount as a built motor with a blower. I had a better time in true street than ever running brackets. True Street is the ONLY class for real street cars. Sure you may not be the overall winner, but you can atleast say you won something. People with daily drivers don't belong in "Heads-up" racing, that's the reality. It's not fair, but neither is life.

------------------

http://www.inergy.com/jcstang

SR89racer · 09-14-1999, 08:57 PM

letting all the differeent race blowers in the class has let the class get to fast i talke to george and bill at gainseville last year and they did'nt expect this class to be this fast so but instead of slowing the cars down they let them go faster and now it is no fun. They announced this class last year and said it was for daily driven street cars with 1 power adder. now thats not true now its reace purpose built cars. also how many street cars drive around with a lap top next to them. i think they should slim the rules down a little and make the class more fun and compettitive instead of faster.

Trace · 09-15-1999, 12:09 AM

The Street Renegade class has evolved just like all the other classes have. Does anyone honestly think it would be fun to go race or watch the same cars over and over again running the same times over and over again? Part of the excitement is seeing new records being set and watching each class move to the next level. Yes, the rules change, it would be very boring if they didn't!
Last year, high 10s were competitive in Street Renegade, now they aren't. 10 second street driven cars are now very common. Sure it takes a bunch of money to go play in the 9s, but I'm not sitting around and expecting anyone to slow down for me. It's time to either put up, or shut up. I'll continue to throw every dime I have into my car in order to achieve my goals and you won't hear me whining about it when someone steps it up a notch.

Trace

Quick50 · 09-15-1999, 10:17 AM

How about limiting compression to "street car" levels? How many street cars are driven with 14:1 compression ( nitrous) or 11:1 on supercharged? A car that run on race fuel only is not a street car. Of course it is a competitive heads up class but lets not forget what this class was introduced for. Right now it should be called Mini-Outlaw.

Saleen7 · 09-15-1999, 06:22 PM

how do you fiqure a street car doesn't have race gas where have you been ....100 + unleaded can be bought at the pump !!!!! and limit the compression ....hell is there anything else you want ...people come to race fast cars and watch fast cars and what makes it even better is it is done with very limited parts. it is proven that all classes step up at least .5 sec every year ...so all the bitchin and whinning does is put you farther back. Do you actually think the people would watch 30 12 sec cars go down the track !!!...I bet that would also get alot of mag coverage also .

checkered86 · 09-15-1999, 06:25 PM

just an FYI... my compression on my car is 9.4 to 1.... I dont run aluminum rods or a lightweight crank, but instead a forged crank and eagle rods... Ive spent alot of time tuning my engine AND tuning my chassis... Keep working at it and eventually you'll reach your goal.. My success did not come over night!!! Bob Kurgan

SR89racer · 09-16-1999, 09:56 PM

i think if they kept the rules like they had last year this class will be more fun and alot more people can articipate. when this class first came out the were all saying this is for street cars with 1 power adder now its for race cars i say lets bring back the original rules and get rid of the mini outlaw rules.

SLY.S/R54 · 09-17-1999, 09:21 PM

YES THE CLASS HAS GOT OUT OF HAND BUT LIKE BOB SAID IT TAKES TIME AND ALOT OF TUNING IM GOING THROGHT THAT NOW YOU CANT MAKE A CAR GO FAST OVERNIGHT I HAD MINE RUNNING SENCE MAY AND STILL HAVENOT GOT IT RIGHT YET I GOT ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD TO MAKE IT RIGHT BUT NEXT YEAR I WILL BE IN THE LOW 10'S WITH A STOCK 88 BLOCK STOCK BORE AND STROKE AND PUT ATLEAST 6000 MILES ON IT THIS IS A STREET/RACE CAR BUT EVERYONE IS MISSING THE POINT GO OUT AND HAVE FUN IN THE CLASS YOU CHOSE LIKE A FRIEND TOLD ME GO OUT AND ENJOY YOURSELF AND HAVE FUN IF YOU START TO TAKE IT AS A JOB YOU MIGHT AS WELL SELL THE CAR BECAUSE YOU DONT ENJOY IT NO MORE..... KEN SYLVESTER Jr.
S/R 54 10:96@124

09-02-1999, 10:13 PM	#1
Zane Bates Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Jackson,Georgia Posts: 34	Race Renegade Seems like Renegade has turned into an expensive race class that the common street Mustang can no longer be competitive.Why could'nt this class have been left alone instead of allowing the T trim and the new procharger and novi.How is this a street clas when a race engine is needed to be competitive.I bet there aren't any stock blocks in the three fastest cars.Last year ended with cars in the 10.20 range thios year will end in the 9.60.Whats next r trims and 9.30.

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09-08-1999, 10:35 PM	#2
Quick50 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: xxx Posts: 33	I agree. As I said before, it is a class that is allowing things that you won't find on most normal "street power adder mustangs". How about limiting the class to 2.5" exhaust and late model production blocks (no expensive SVO blocks). That would force Renegade to have street driven level of performance.

09-09-1999, 08:18 AM	#3
George Klass Registered Member Join Date: Dec 1998 Location: Torrance, California, USA Posts: 104	Both of you guys are correct. Street Renegade, like all of the other Shootout classes (including Trophy Stock) are for cars designed to be competitive, within the class rules. Basically, streetable cars are just not competitive. It's just not possible to create any kind of "heads-up" class in which someone doesn't build a "race only" car for the class. The rules are imaterial. Does anyone believe that an 8 or 9 sec. True Street car is a street car? I doubt it. So, where does that leave the racer with an actual street machine? Either running in True Street on Saturday (where we award the quickest 9, 10, 11, 12, etc. cars equally) or in the bracket or Open Comp type classes. Truth is that Heads-up classes are race car classes. By the way, at the first Street Renegade race that we ever held (Spring Break Shootout, March '98) someone ran a 10.38. This was before Novi's, D1's, etc. I guess that it always was a serious race class, even though FFW didn't want it to be.

09-09-1999, 08:32 PM	#4
SR89racer Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl USA Posts: 235	Yes someone did run a 10.38 but the class was compettitive now if you dont run high 9's you might as well not run. I have to agree with alot of people that this class is getting out of hand especially with the blower cars. They are dominating this class and have so many options on which one to use nitrous cars are limited to only certain kits and on how much can be sprayed.You would have to use 2 kits and a very good bottom end and alot of money in which some people dont have to be able to go 9's in this claassi think the blower cars should be limited on how much boost they are allowed this class is gonna lose alot of people to run in it if this continuse to get this crazy alot of people are getting upset and it shouldnt be that way this class is turning into a mini outlaw class and something should be done i remember how much fun it was the first year now its no fun cause its to serious. well hope to see ya all at bradenton next year.

09-09-1999, 09:44 PM	#5
Zane Bates Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Jackson,Georgia Posts: 34	As usual George sides with the money.The class was very competitive last year and is now a Bob and Chip show.We can not all aford race cars but we all have street cars.Seems like the NMRA is listening to the racers and are trying to keep the feild level in the renegade class.Maybe when my car is done I guess I'll have to settle and race were I'm competitive.Oh it looks like it won't be here and it's your choice not mine.

09-09-1999, 10:02 PM	#6
George Klass Registered Member Join Date: Dec 1998 Location: Torrance, California, USA Posts: 104	What money are you talking about, Zane? Usually I don't respond to BS like this but I'm feeling good tonight. Speaking for myself and not FFW, I've got news for you, Zane. Your street car is not going to be competive with any organization, not FFW, not NMRA, not WFC. Street cars are for the street. The winning Renegade cars have all been built for the class. They may have started out on the street, but they are race cars now. If you want to race, you better build a race car. It's just that simple. No one is asking if you like it; it's just the way it is. Grow up.

09-09-1999, 10:42 PM	#7
Joe T/S #25 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Pinellas Park, FL. USA Posts: 10	I'm not involved with the renegade class but I have to agree with George. The rules are set and everyone has to play along. If a class is too expensive, maybe there is another class to enter that is less expensive. I know a few guys that run in renegade and they still drive their cars on the street even running low 10's. Maybe not every day, but they still see the street on weekends. Trophy Stock is probably the only class were at least half the guys I know still use their cars as a daily driver. Rules are rules and we have to follow them if we're the fastest or slowest in our respective classes. Joe T/S #25 12.83 @ 107.89

09-10-1999, 03:25 PM	#8
MY12SECGT Registered Member Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: Jacksonville Posts: 10	If you want to run a class where you have a chance to win but cant afford to run it. I suggest you run true street. this year they paid out for the fastest car in each 10, 11 ,12, 13 ,14, and 15 sec catigory. I ran my first FFW this year and ran true street, since my car wasnt competitive in any other class and not legal in Trophy Stock. True Street is a fun class and I had a great time. People in the class are very friendly and pretty much a wide open class as long as you make the 30 mile cruise and 3 back to back passes. Personal attacks on George are uncalled for and should not be put on this board. When I add my power adder the only class that will be legal for my 83 GT will be S/O class but you dont see me complaining about it look for another class or build a motor that will be competitive. Rex ------------------ 1983 GT 306 w/GT-40 heads Best 1/4 12.997@102.89 1.754 60ft Best 1/8 8.090@83.6 1.685 60ft

09-10-1999, 04:16 PM	#9
SR89racer Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl USA Posts: 235	well if what Geoerge Klass says is true then this class is no longer for street driven cars and for race cars now so much for a fun class cause once that happens might as not even race and everyone wonders why there is so much street racing going on cause thats the only place people have a chance to win. as usual this class got out of hand just like outlaw did.

09-10-1999, 08:33 PM	#10
Saleen7 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Mooresville , NC Posts: 31	do you think that street racing doesn't have race cars in it also , WAKE UP ...there are more pure race cars out on a weekend night taking money than you can imagine !!! So what do you do on the street when a guys says lets run , and you know he has a alum rod, 347 with a blower ??? Do you say take the blower belt off!! Hell no you don't race , but you will watch him run ....soooo don't race FFW . Nobody ever said it was a street class. .... there are no street class' . Hell TS wasn't even a street class . If you guys spend alittle less time complaining about the blowers and what not and either change your combo like others have , you may have some fun ...Remember you do not have to win to have fun. if a car is following the rules that are laid down then fine ....and yes there is a Nitrous car that may just very well be faster than the rest. If I choose to build an all out race motor by the rules on my street car that I used to drive everyday then more power to me . Get your nose's out of the maazines and build a car .. if you do the math its not that much difference in price ....!!! you can buy any blower , any block any intake ..its all there and around the same prices. Soend alittle less time pointing fingers and get up and race !!!

09-11-1999, 10:59 PM	#11
DarkGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: N.lauderdale,FL Posts: 1	I have to agree with SR89Racer...he and i know what renegade is like. It seems to be getting out of hand..but that is the nature of the sport. What i would like to know is, is there any chance of NOS cars getting some breaks to be more competitive???

09-12-1999, 09:14 PM	#12
Zane Bates Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Jackson,Georgia Posts: 34	As usual the meaning of the message has been misunderstood.As you no last year a stock block aluminum heads and an s trim and you were racing competivly.And for your information you can't build a car that adheres to these rules because they are consantley changing to make the class faster not more competitive.You can not build a car to rules that are liquid.Well i do have a street car that gets 20 mpg runs low 11 sec times with 26 x 8.5 et streets and a stock short block with a 150 thousand miles on it.I now thats not race car territory but I could at least have some fun with last years Renegade cars.

09-13-1999, 12:55 AM	#13
JCSTANG Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: JEFFERSON CITY, T.N., U.S. Posts: 26	I run true street for the first time this year. I had to run beside the quickest car in the field (10.3something). But on sunday, my check from bill alexander was for the same amount even thou I only won the 14 sec. ave.. My stock motor with nitrous won the same amount as a built motor with a blower. I had a better time in true street than ever running brackets. True Street is the ONLY class for real street cars. Sure you may not be the overall winner, but you can atleast say you won something. People with daily drivers don't belong in "Heads-up" racing, that's the reality. It's not fair, but neither is life. ------------------ http://www.inergy.com/jcstang

09-14-1999, 08:57 PM	#14
SR89racer Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl USA Posts: 235	letting all the differeent race blowers in the class has let the class get to fast i talke to george and bill at gainseville last year and they did'nt expect this class to be this fast so but instead of slowing the cars down they let them go faster and now it is no fun. They announced this class last year and said it was for daily driven street cars with 1 power adder. now thats not true now its reace purpose built cars. also how many street cars drive around with a lap top next to them. i think they should slim the rules down a little and make the class more fun and compettitive instead of faster.

09-15-1999, 12:09 AM	#15
Trace Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Portsmouth, Ohio (Mullett hell) Posts: 11	The Street Renegade class has evolved just like all the other classes have. Does anyone honestly think it would be fun to go race or watch the same cars over and over again running the same times over and over again? Part of the excitement is seeing new records being set and watching each class move to the next level. Yes, the rules change, it would be very boring if they didn't! Last year, high 10s were competitive in Street Renegade, now they aren't. 10 second street driven cars are now very common. Sure it takes a bunch of money to go play in the 9s, but I'm not sitting around and expecting anyone to slow down for me. It's time to either put up, or shut up. I'll continue to throw every dime I have into my car in order to achieve my goals and you won't hear me whining about it when someone steps it up a notch. Trace

09-15-1999, 10:17 AM	#16
Quick50 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: xxx Posts: 33	How about limiting compression to "street car" levels? How many street cars are driven with 14:1 compression ( nitrous) or 11:1 on supercharged? A car that run on race fuel only is not a street car. Of course it is a competitive heads up class but lets not forget what this class was introduced for. Right now it should be called Mini-Outlaw.

09-15-1999, 06:22 PM	#17
Saleen7 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Mooresville , NC Posts: 31	how do you fiqure a street car doesn't have race gas where have you been ....100 + unleaded can be bought at the pump !!!!! and limit the compression ....hell is there anything else you want ...people come to race fast cars and watch fast cars and what makes it even better is it is done with very limited parts. it is proven that all classes step up at least .5 sec every year ...so all the bitchin and whinning does is put you farther back. Do you actually think the people would watch 30 12 sec cars go down the track !!!...I bet that would also get alot of mag coverage also .

09-15-1999, 06:25 PM	#18
checkered86 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: s.elgin Posts: 14	just an FYI... my compression on my car is 9.4 to 1.... I dont run aluminum rods or a lightweight crank, but instead a forged crank and eagle rods... Ive spent alot of time tuning my engine AND tuning my chassis... Keep working at it and eventually you'll reach your goal.. My success did not come over night!!! Bob Kurgan

09-16-1999, 09:56 PM	#19
SR89racer Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl USA Posts: 235	i think if they kept the rules like they had last year this class will be more fun and alot more people can articipate. when this class first came out the were all saying this is for street cars with 1 power adder now its for race cars i say lets bring back the original rules and get rid of the mini outlaw rules.

09-17-1999, 09:21 PM	#20
SLY.S/R54 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: OAK PARK, MI Posts: 1	YES THE CLASS HAS GOT OUT OF HAND BUT LIKE BOB SAID IT TAKES TIME AND ALOT OF TUNING IM GOING THROGHT THAT NOW YOU CANT MAKE A CAR GO FAST OVERNIGHT I HAD MINE RUNNING SENCE MAY AND STILL HAVENOT GOT IT RIGHT YET I GOT ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD TO MAKE IT RIGHT BUT NEXT YEAR I WILL BE IN THE LOW 10'S WITH A STOCK 88 BLOCK STOCK BORE AND STROKE AND PUT ATLEAST 6000 MILES ON IT THIS IS A STREET/RACE CAR BUT EVERYONE IS MISSING THE POINT GO OUT AND HAVE FUN IN THE CLASS YOU CHOSE LIKE A FRIEND TOLD ME GO OUT AND ENJOY YOURSELF AND HAVE FUN IF YOU START TO TAKE IT AS A JOB YOU MIGHT AS WELL SELL THE CAR BECAUSE YOU DONT ENJOY IT NO MORE..... KEN SYLVESTER Jr. S/R 54 10:96@124