Trophy Stock Rules Question for George Klass or anyone who knows.

mustang_500hp · 05-19-1999, 02:01 PM

I have a question about the trophy stock class rules in the fun ford weekend rule book I was wondering if GT-40 or GT-40P cylinder heads are legal to be run in this class.According to how i interpret the rules they should be because they were offered on O.E.M. vehicles. also what other cylinder heads may be legal in this class?could someone give me a list? Also what can be done about the "stock suspension" rule? Can you change control arms? how about bushings? Springs? Shocks? Struts? Would Southside control arms be legal?
Any help is greatly appreciated.

------------------
Future trophy Stock Champion.

[This message has been edited by mustang_500hp (edited 05-19-99).]

05-19-1999, 02:19 PM

The stock E7TE castings are also legal. The GT-40 and GT-40P are legal because they were mass production vehicle heads. George would have to say whether or not the old 289 heads are legal....I've never asked. As far as the suspension goes, it has to retain its stock mounting points. You can change control arms , springs, etc within the limits of the rules as long as it retains stock appearance, functionality, and basic geometry.

I'll end this with my usual disclaimer: Always check with George if you've got even the smallest question about the legality of your combination. He's the final authority on what goes and what doesn't.

------------------
Jeff Chambers
T/S #4
12.60 Seconds/109.0 MPH

mustang_500hp · 05-19-1999, 03:14 PM

Also I would like to ask what times i need to be running to be competitive in this class the best i think i will be able to pull out is a mid 12. maybe 12.40 will this keep me in the top 5?

------------------
Future trophy Stock Champion.

frankjp · 05-19-1999, 03:34 PM

Jeff is correct, the only heads allowed are any Ford Iron In-line production head, stock late model 302, early 302, 289, 351W. The only other heads allowed are GT-40, and the GT40P. That's it, no other aftermarket heads. They cannot be ported, only matched 1" from the gasket surface, they can be milled for compression though. I asked George a bunch of questions when I started my build-up.

Also, as Jeff stated and as George told me, as long as the stock mounting points are maintained it is OK. This means you can change springs, shocks, struts, control arms, etc.

Again, it is best to talk to George about all of your specific parts, this is what I did to make sure everything I have is legal. I asked even if I was 99.99% sure it was OK. You don't want to get to the track and be disallowed for something you assumed was OK.

As for times, I believe the best to be in the 12.30's so mid 12's should make you very competitive.

You'll have to get through me too to become champion, well not this year

Good luck with the build-up, I would like to see this class become very popular, more so than it is now.

------------------
Frank Peterson
94 Cobra T/S #38

George Klass · 05-19-1999, 07:03 PM

As usual, these T/S champs are right on the button. My experience regarding what can & can't be done in any of the heads-up classes is best addressed with the class racers themselves. These guys know the rules, and as a byproduct, if they see something that they feel is not allowed, they will always tell us about it, as they should. The best "tech" is the racers themselves. For all practical purposes, most class racers, particuarily the "regulars" will always assist each other. They put the "fun" in FFW. See ya at the track.

Snake96 · 05-21-1999, 08:15 AM

I had a question about tires - we can use either 26x8.5 slicks or DOT up to 9.5". Is that 9.5" measured tread, and is there a diameter limit on DOTs?

I guess that the 8.5 slick is probably a better choice anyway.

QuickSilver · 05-23-1999, 08:37 PM

I also have a question regarding headers. After competing at the WFC's and several of Evan Smith's stock shootouts, us stockers usually go right for long-tube headers. As far as all of the other rules are concerned, it is not terrible to make the modifications (ie: relocate the battery and move to a smaller tire), but having to purchase & install shorty headers is just too much, but I really don't want to miss competing in what I think is almost the perfect stocker class. Is there any chance of re-looking at this particular rule to allow either shorty's or long-tube headers within certain dimensions? I think you would have a better turnout of stock racer's and it would help promote more racer's to stick to good old All-Throttle Performance.

quicklx · 05-24-1999, 02:14 PM

Thats why the class is called Trophy Stock.LOngtubes were never offered from the factory.I know,you can make alot of changes to your car so its not even close to stock,yet still be legal for this class.I dont think aftermarket camshafts should be allowed,but they are.Youre not going to lose that much with a switch to shorties anyway.

QuickSilver · 05-24-1999, 09:44 PM

I know ... I could be racing against a pure stock Cobra with 320 horses, as I had previously raced a '93 Cobra when my pony was still bone stock. As I stated, I don't mind making most of the mods back to stock, but the money and especially the labor to change headers will sway me to simply race brackets.

------------------

NJ Stocker Heading For The 11's
"If you have money in the bank, then you're going too slow!"

05-25-1999, 12:13 PM

[Back after the FFW event]

George would have to answer the question about diameter limits for the DOT's. The rules don't explicitly the DOT diamter like is done for the pure slicks.

Long tube headers are not allowed. I feel your pain, but we're all running shorties and doing pretty well with them. I'd love the extra ponies out of the LT's, but would hate to lay out the cash for headers and H-pipe all over again.

------------------
Jeff Chambers
T/S #4
12.55 Seconds/109.3 MPH

frankjp · 05-25-1999, 02:00 PM

Jeff,

How did it go this weekend? I heard finals were rained out maybe? Also, I see your time has improved some?

------------------
Frank Peterson
94 Cobra T/S #38

05-25-1999, 03:02 PM

Yes the finals were rained out. Another half-an-hour and it would have been in the books.

I made it to the finals so it looks like I'll be heading to Gainesville to finish things up. The weather was hot and it seemed to slow most others down but I picked up so I guess thats good. I added the MAC cold-air induction system on Friday night so that my explain why I seemed to pick up in the heat. The car was working good all weekend though, from the sixty foot times through top end MPH so watch out at Gainesville!

------------------
Jeff Chambers
T/S #4
12.55 Seconds/109.3 MPH

QuickSilver · 05-26-1999, 10:35 AM

Jeff, your MPH is killer! Just curious, what do your 60 foot times look like, and are you running a full slick or street slick/drag radial?

------------------
NJ Stocker Heading For The 11's
"If you have money in the bank, then you're going too slow!"

05-26-1999, 11:59 AM

Even in the heat of the day (and I do mean heat), I was managing 1.67-1.68 sixty footers. That's pretty good for my car, although I changed the suspension geometry before the event. They might have been better if the conditions were better, but we were racing in 'couldas'. I was happy with the way the car was hooking. I moved my launch point up to 5000 this weekend and with the suspension changes it seemed to hook well.

I run 26x8 M/T ET Drags. They're into their second season so maybe not as fresh as they could be.

------------------
Jeff Chambers
T/S #4
12.55 Seconds/109.3 MPH

Snake96 · 05-26-1999, 11:29 PM

Jeff,

is the 26X8 slick the tire that most of the racers use in T/S?

I need to get some tires soon, and want to make sure I make a choice that's good for the T/S class. I hope to run in that later in the summer.

Thanks.

Ponyboy5oh · 05-27-1999, 07:51 AM

Jeff,
Are your heads milled? Or is that not allowed? Currently mine are not but I am planning a rebuild and was looking into it. Any advice would be helpful.

------------------
T/S 69

frankjp · 05-27-1999, 08:03 AM

Hi,

Milling your heads is allowed, I asked George that specific question before I had mine done, and it is allowed.

Good luck!

------------------
Frank Peterson
94 Cobra T/S #38

05-27-1999, 08:15 AM

The 26x8.5 slick is the largest you're allowed to run. Some guys choose to run the DOT's, but I really feel that to be competitive you'll need to run the pure slick.

Milling is allowed and mine are. I took 0.030" off my GT-40's to try and increase the compression ration some. The guys running the GT-40P's can really pick up the compression with a little milling. Watch your PtV clearance though.

------------------
Jeff Chambers
T/S #4
12.55 Seconds/109.3 MPH

mustang_500hp · 05-27-1999, 01:56 PM

Is there a compression limit in this class because that would be a good way for me to pick up some power. or can you mill until your heart is content? i know you can't use domed pistons.

------------------
Future trophy Stock Champion.

05-27-1999, 03:29 PM

There's no compression/volume limit that I'm aware of (unlike in the NMRA Pure Stock class). However, you need to be keen of several factors when milling. Piston to valve clearance could become a problem if too much is removed. Also, you may tend to over-shroud the exhaust valve by milling too much and hence reducing the combustion chamber. Also remember that in T/S we've got to run PUMP gas (no race gas & no additives) so too high of a compression ratio can get you there.

------------------
Jeff Chambers
T/S #4
12.55 Seconds/109.3 MPH

05-19-1999, 02:01 PM	#1
mustang_500hp Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Kansas City, KS U.S.A. Posts: 66	Trophy Stock Rules Question for George Klass or anyone who knows. I have a question about the trophy stock class rules in the fun ford weekend rule book I was wondering if GT-40 or GT-40P cylinder heads are legal to be run in this class.According to how i interpret the rules they should be because they were offered on O.E.M. vehicles. also what other cylinder heads may be legal in this class?could someone give me a list? Also what can be done about the "stock suspension" rule? Can you change control arms? how about bushings? Springs? Shocks? Struts? Would Southside control arms be legal? Any help is greatly appreciated. ------------------ Future trophy Stock Champion. [This message has been edited by mustang_500hp (edited 05-19-99).]

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05-19-1999, 02:19 PM	#2
jchambers Guest Posts: n/a	The stock E7TE castings are also legal. The GT-40 and GT-40P are legal because they were mass production vehicle heads. George would have to say whether or not the old 289 heads are legal....I've never asked. As far as the suspension goes, it has to retain its stock mounting points. You can change control arms , springs, etc within the limits of the rules as long as it retains stock appearance, functionality, and basic geometry. I'll end this with my usual disclaimer: Always check with George if you've got even the smallest question about the legality of your combination. He's the final authority on what goes and what doesn't. ------------------ Jeff Chambers T/S #4 12.60 Seconds/109.0 MPH

05-19-1999, 03:14 PM	#3
mustang_500hp Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Kansas City, KS U.S.A. Posts: 66	Also I would like to ask what times i need to be running to be competitive in this class the best i think i will be able to pull out is a mid 12. maybe 12.40 will this keep me in the top 5? ------------------ Future trophy Stock Champion.

05-19-1999, 03:34 PM	#4
frankjp Registered Member Join Date: Dec 1998 Location: Lisle, IL USA Posts: 156	Jeff is correct, the only heads allowed are any Ford Iron In-line production head, stock late model 302, early 302, 289, 351W. The only other heads allowed are GT-40, and the GT40P. That's it, no other aftermarket heads. They cannot be ported, only matched 1" from the gasket surface, they can be milled for compression though. I asked George a bunch of questions when I started my build-up. Also, as Jeff stated and as George told me, as long as the stock mounting points are maintained it is OK. This means you can change springs, shocks, struts, control arms, etc. Again, it is best to talk to George about all of your specific parts, this is what I did to make sure everything I have is legal. I asked even if I was 99.99% sure it was OK. You don't want to get to the track and be disallowed for something you assumed was OK. As for times, I believe the best to be in the 12.30's so mid 12's should make you very competitive. You'll have to get through me too to become champion, well not this year Good luck with the build-up, I would like to see this class become very popular, more so than it is now. ------------------ Frank Peterson 94 Cobra T/S #38

05-19-1999, 07:03 PM	#5
George Klass Registered Member Join Date: Dec 1998 Location: Torrance, California, USA Posts: 104	As usual, these T/S champs are right on the button. My experience regarding what can & can't be done in any of the heads-up classes is best addressed with the class racers themselves. These guys know the rules, and as a byproduct, if they see something that they feel is not allowed, they will always tell us about it, as they should. The best "tech" is the racers themselves. For all practical purposes, most class racers, particuarily the "regulars" will always assist each other. They put the "fun" in FFW. See ya at the track.

05-21-1999, 08:15 AM	#6
Snake96 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 2	I had a question about tires - we can use either 26x8.5 slicks or DOT up to 9.5". Is that 9.5" measured tread, and is there a diameter limit on DOTs? I guess that the 8.5 slick is probably a better choice anyway.

05-23-1999, 08:37 PM	#7
QuickSilver Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Somerset, NJ, USA Posts: 66	I also have a question regarding headers. After competing at the WFC's and several of Evan Smith's stock shootouts, us stockers usually go right for long-tube headers. As far as all of the other rules are concerned, it is not terrible to make the modifications (ie: relocate the battery and move to a smaller tire), but having to purchase & install shorty headers is just too much, but I really don't want to miss competing in what I think is almost the perfect stocker class. Is there any chance of re-looking at this particular rule to allow either shorty's or long-tube headers within certain dimensions? I think you would have a better turnout of stock racer's and it would help promote more racer's to stick to good old All-Throttle Performance.

05-24-1999, 02:14 PM	#8
quicklx Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Lafayette,IN Posts: 29	Thats why the class is called Trophy Stock.LOngtubes were never offered from the factory.I know,you can make alot of changes to your car so its not even close to stock,yet still be legal for this class.I dont think aftermarket camshafts should be allowed,but they are.Youre not going to lose that much with a switch to shorties anyway.

05-24-1999, 09:44 PM	#9
QuickSilver Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Somerset, NJ, USA Posts: 66	I know ... I could be racing against a pure stock Cobra with 320 horses, as I had previously raced a '93 Cobra when my pony was still bone stock. As I stated, I don't mind making most of the mods back to stock, but the money and especially the labor to change headers will sway me to simply race brackets. ------------------ NJ Stocker Heading For The 11's "If you have money in the bank, then you're going too slow!"

05-25-1999, 12:13 PM	#10
jchambers Guest Posts: n/a	[Back after the FFW event] George would have to answer the question about diameter limits for the DOT's. The rules don't explicitly the DOT diamter like is done for the pure slicks. Long tube headers are not allowed. I feel your pain, but we're all running shorties and doing pretty well with them. I'd love the extra ponies out of the LT's, but would hate to lay out the cash for headers and H-pipe all over again. ------------------ Jeff Chambers T/S #4 12.55 Seconds/109.3 MPH

05-25-1999, 02:00 PM	#11
frankjp Registered Member Join Date: Dec 1998 Location: Lisle, IL USA Posts: 156	Jeff, How did it go this weekend? I heard finals were rained out maybe? Also, I see your time has improved some? ------------------ Frank Peterson 94 Cobra T/S #38

05-25-1999, 03:02 PM	#12
jchambers Guest Posts: n/a	Yes the finals were rained out. Another half-an-hour and it would have been in the books. I made it to the finals so it looks like I'll be heading to Gainesville to finish things up. The weather was hot and it seemed to slow most others down but I picked up so I guess thats good. I added the MAC cold-air induction system on Friday night so that my explain why I seemed to pick up in the heat. The car was working good all weekend though, from the sixty foot times through top end MPH so watch out at Gainesville! ------------------ Jeff Chambers T/S #4 12.55 Seconds/109.3 MPH

05-26-1999, 10:35 AM	#13
QuickSilver Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Somerset, NJ, USA Posts: 66	Jeff, your MPH is killer! Just curious, what do your 60 foot times look like, and are you running a full slick or street slick/drag radial? ------------------ NJ Stocker Heading For The 11's "If you have money in the bank, then you're going too slow!"

05-26-1999, 11:59 AM	#14
jchambers Guest Posts: n/a	Even in the heat of the day (and I do mean heat), I was managing 1.67-1.68 sixty footers. That's pretty good for my car, although I changed the suspension geometry before the event. They might have been better if the conditions were better, but we were racing in 'couldas'. I was happy with the way the car was hooking. I moved my launch point up to 5000 this weekend and with the suspension changes it seemed to hook well. I run 26x8 M/T ET Drags. They're into their second season so maybe not as fresh as they could be. ------------------ Jeff Chambers T/S #4 12.55 Seconds/109.3 MPH

05-26-1999, 11:29 PM	#15
Snake96 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 2	Jeff, is the 26X8 slick the tire that most of the racers use in T/S? I need to get some tires soon, and want to make sure I make a choice that's good for the T/S class. I hope to run in that later in the summer. Thanks.

05-27-1999, 07:51 AM	#16
Ponyboy5oh Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Moriarty, NM USA Posts: 4	Jeff, Are your heads milled? Or is that not allowed? Currently mine are not but I am planning a rebuild and was looking into it. Any advice would be helpful. ------------------ T/S 69

05-27-1999, 08:03 AM	#17
frankjp Registered Member Join Date: Dec 1998 Location: Lisle, IL USA Posts: 156	Hi, Milling your heads is allowed, I asked George that specific question before I had mine done, and it is allowed. Good luck! ------------------ Frank Peterson 94 Cobra T/S #38

05-27-1999, 08:15 AM	#18
jchambers Guest Posts: n/a	The 26x8.5 slick is the largest you're allowed to run. Some guys choose to run the DOT's, but I really feel that to be competitive you'll need to run the pure slick. Milling is allowed and mine are. I took 0.030" off my GT-40's to try and increase the compression ration some. The guys running the GT-40P's can really pick up the compression with a little milling. Watch your PtV clearance though. ------------------ Jeff Chambers T/S #4 12.55 Seconds/109.3 MPH

05-27-1999, 01:56 PM	#19
mustang_500hp Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Kansas City, KS U.S.A. Posts: 66	Is there a compression limit in this class because that would be a good way for me to pick up some power. or can you mill until your heart is content? i know you can't use domed pistons. ------------------ Future trophy Stock Champion.

05-27-1999, 03:29 PM	#20
jchambers Guest Posts: n/a	There's no compression/volume limit that I'm aware of (unlike in the NMRA Pure Stock class). However, you need to be keen of several factors when milling. Piston to valve clearance could become a problem if too much is removed. Also, you may tend to over-shroud the exhaust valve by milling too much and hence reducing the combustion chamber. Also remember that in T/S we've got to run PUMP gas (no race gas & no additives) so too high of a compression ratio can get you there. ------------------ Jeff Chambers T/S #4 12.55 Seconds/109.3 MPH