EFI RENEGADE

WVKICKSTAND · 01-26-2000, 10:16 AM

I THINK THERE SHOULD BE ANOTHER VERSION OF THIS CLASS. ORIGINALY I THOUGHT THIS WAS A POOR MANS CLASS OR BUDGET RACING CLASS. NOW THE CLASS IS SO FAST IT TAKES A SMALL FORTUNE TO BE COMPETITIVE. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE ANOTHER CLASS JUST LIKE EFI RENEGADE BUT WITH 15 LBS BOOST LIMIT AND STOCK BLOCKS ONLY. THIS WOULD CUT THE HORSEPOWER WAY BACK AND I BELIEVE THERE WOULD BE A LOT OF CLOSE ET MUSTANGS OUT THERE COMPETING! I WOULD REALY LIKE TO HEAR SOME OTHER THOUGHTS AND SUGESTIONS ON THIS. IM HOPING THERE ARE OTHER RACERS WHO WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOMETHING OF THE SAME LINES OR MAYBE WITH EVEN BETTER IDEAS. THANKS

[This message has been edited by Dan McClain (edited 01-26-2000).]

01-27-2000, 08:14 AM

Even with those limitations you'd find that it'd still take a small fortune to compete. Heads up racing is expensive no matter how you write the rules. Even with a stock block and 15 psi limit, you're going to find the guys with the big checkbook buying the best of everything and running away with the class.

------------------
Jeff Chambers
T/S #4
12.40 Seconds/109.5 MPH
http://www.kellnet.com/chambers/default.htm

T/S # 25 · 01-27-2000, 08:30 PM

It might be a silly question, but how would you check each car to make sure they were only making 15 lbs. of boost? Just a question.

JOE
T/S # 7
12.80 @ 107.89

COME CORRECT · 01-29-2000, 03:27 PM

EFI/Renegade has become is ruled by six competitors. It's just strange that every new class ever started is taken to the extreme and the real back bone of these classes are just left out in the cold. It just a shame that competitor in all of us has now become dominate by the few. I would like to start a new H/U/EFI/class. This class would be called "Desporado". For all the true street Mustangs to compete and just have plain old fun.

------------------
SGM PALADIN

StangFlyer · 01-29-2000, 07:23 PM

Joe, that's easy, you don't check. What you do is limit the superchargers down to the base street level units on the market that can't make over 15 psi. With the S-trim it is possible to make about 18, so what you do is also put a specific limit on the diameter of what both your compressor and crank pulley can be. That IS easily measurable.

Jeff is right, however. Even with limiting the class down to street level blowers, 15 psi, and a stock block you'd still have to spend a decent amount to build a competitive car. Probably around $10,000, at least. However, that is the financial range and type of motor I designed the class for, and that is around the amount of money a serious street / strip enthusiast will end up spending in the long haul building up his Stang. Certainly within the reach of a lot more racers than having to spend $30,000 to build a competitive car, that's for sure. However, it's still a combo that will be at best a high ten second to around a mid eleven second car, not a mid-nine second drag car like we will see this year.

------------------
Dan McClain, Editor
The Mustang Works Online
1991 Mustang GT - 10.90 @ 122 Mph
Built, Blown, and Fast as Hell!

[This message has been edited by Dan McClain (edited 01-29-2000).]

WVKICKSTAND · 01-30-2000, 08:46 AM

To limit boost to 15 lbs. couldn't you make everyone use a 15 lbs. blow off valve? I believe they are going to make the ATI-D series run restrictors this year arent they? Someone see's a need to limit this class if they are going to demand restrictors.Im not saying that they should even limit this class but maybe make a slower version of this class. Bob

01-30-2000, 08:57 AM

Not a bad idea, kinda Indy car style with a pop-off valve. Problem is, who would supply them and who would regulate them. I can see the masses running to their garages now to try and 'modify' the pop-off to get that little extra advantage! It takes an army of CART officials to inspect/oversee the pop-off valves and some serious testing machinery to make sure that they're all evenly matched.

------------------
Jeff Chambers
T/S #4
12.40 Seconds/109.5 MPH
http://www.kellnet.com/chambers/default.htm

WVKICKSTAND · 01-30-2000, 09:48 AM

WELL DONT THEY TEAR DOWN MOTORS TO MAKE SURE YOUR RUNNING WITHIN THE GUIDLINES? BLOWING 15 LBS. THRU A BLOW OFF VALVE TO SEE IF IT WORKS AT THE RIGHT PRESSURE DOESNT SEEM TO BE THAT MUCH MORE WORK! AND THE BIGGEST LIMITATION WOULD BE A STOCK BLOCK. DSS CLAIMS THAT WITH THEY'RE MAIN GIRDDLE CUT OFF ON A STOCK BLOCK IS 650 HORSES.HOW MUCH CAN AN A-4 BLOCK HOLD ABOUT 1500? IF YOUR MAKING 30 LBS OF BOOST ON A STOCK BLOCK HOW LONG WOULD YOU SAY IT WILL LAST? AND I CANT SEE ANY BODY DOING TOP FUEL REBUILDS BETWEEN ROUNDS!THAT IS NOT A STREET CAR ANYWAY.THE BOOST THING WAS A SUGESTION I DONT HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS I FIGURED PEOPLE LIKE YOU WOULD HAVE SOME GOOD IDEAS INSTEAD OF PUT DOWNS LIKE THIS IS TO HARD OR THIS WOULD NEVER WORK.WHY DONT WE INSTEAD TRY TO FIND A WAY TO MAKE A MORE COMPETITIVE CLASS!!!

01-30-2000, 11:57 AM

Not trying to put you down at all. I was just trying to point out that the pop-off valve probably wouldn't solve all the problems. People will find a way to cheat or stretch the rules to the limits. I could be wrong here, but there probably are quite a few out there that manage to build mondo amounts of boost using a stock block and just take the regulart rebuild/replacement in stride. They've got the money to do it so that's how they approach it. Any class of racing is expensive no matter what the rules say. I hate to think how much I've got in my NA Trophy Stock car but I can tell you its more than $10K and that doesn't include the $15K for the car when I bought it new. You're always going to find someone that has the bucks to completely dominate a class (like the Murillos and Havemans), but there's a lot of satisfaction in it for the grass-roots guys when they can manage to knock them off every once in a while. The blowers of today have come a real long way in terms of output & efficiency so its just a fact that those that can afford the latest and greatest are going to run them. It leaves those on a budget out in the cold, but that's just how it goes.

------------------
Jeff Chambers
T/S #4
12.40 Seconds/109.5 MPH
http://www.kellnet.com/chambers/default.htm

STEEDAJEFF · 01-30-2000, 12:12 PM

I have an easy answer.... Just run True street. you can win wherever your car ET's

Beni · 01-31-2000, 07:01 PM

with block fillers, that stock block will be prett strong

there are hundreds of different combos for class, but in the end its gonna be the people who take to the extreme, and leaving the poor by the side. How about a blower class like renagade, but with plain street tires(no DR). How about a T/S class that allows longtubes, battery relocation but must run on DR? the possibilities are endless.....

WVKICKSTAND · 01-31-2000, 10:32 PM

Reserved for 1979 and later 2 door passenger cars. All cars must be FoMoCo factory production vehicles. Minimum weight is 3400 pounds including driver, nitrous oxide equipped vehicles deduct 100 pounds. This class is for "Street Driven Type" vehicles. A competition Factor, which may require the adjustment of weight or other restrictions to a particular competition combination, may be used, at any time, in the interest of safety as well as keeping competition even. Heads up, no breakout, Pro 'Tree eliminations. Class designation S/R followed by American Autosports Productions permanent number. I dont know about everyone but I have trouble keeping my 88 5.0 cool on the street with all the procharger stuf under the hood.I cant see having any amount of block filler in my motor. I guess im trying to be "too streetable" but thats what I like. I drive it to work at least once a week weather permitting.

01-26-2000, 10:16 AM	#1
WVKICKSTAND Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: WV Posts: 15	EFI RENEGADE I THINK THERE SHOULD BE ANOTHER VERSION OF THIS CLASS. ORIGINALY I THOUGHT THIS WAS A POOR MANS CLASS OR BUDGET RACING CLASS. NOW THE CLASS IS SO FAST IT TAKES A SMALL FORTUNE TO BE COMPETITIVE. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE ANOTHER CLASS JUST LIKE EFI RENEGADE BUT WITH 15 LBS BOOST LIMIT AND STOCK BLOCKS ONLY. THIS WOULD CUT THE HORSEPOWER WAY BACK AND I BELIEVE THERE WOULD BE A LOT OF CLOSE ET MUSTANGS OUT THERE COMPETING! I WOULD REALY LIKE TO HEAR SOME OTHER THOUGHTS AND SUGESTIONS ON THIS. IM HOPING THERE ARE OTHER RACERS WHO WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOMETHING OF THE SAME LINES OR MAYBE WITH EVEN BETTER IDEAS. THANKS [This message has been edited by Dan McClain (edited 01-26-2000).]

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01-27-2000, 08:14 AM	#2
jchambers Guest Posts: n/a	Even with those limitations you'd find that it'd still take a small fortune to compete. Heads up racing is expensive no matter how you write the rules. Even with a stock block and 15 psi limit, you're going to find the guys with the big checkbook buying the best of everything and running away with the class. ------------------ Jeff Chambers T/S #4 12.40 Seconds/109.5 MPH http://www.kellnet.com/chambers/default.htm

01-27-2000, 08:30 PM	#3
T/S # 25 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Pinellas Park, FL. Posts: 280	It might be a silly question, but how would you check each car to make sure they were only making 15 lbs. of boost? Just a question. JOE T/S # 7 12.80 @ 107.89

01-29-2000, 03:27 PM	#4
COME CORRECT Registered Member Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: Headed EAST in 5 days Posts: 252	EFI/Renegade has become is ruled by six competitors. It's just strange that every new class ever started is taken to the extreme and the real back bone of these classes are just left out in the cold. It just a shame that competitor in all of us has now become dominate by the few. I would like to start a new H/U/EFI/class. This class would be called "Desporado". For all the true street Mustangs to compete and just have plain old fun. ------------------ SGM PALADIN

01-29-2000, 07:23 PM	#5
StangFlyer Founder Join Date: Jun 1995 Location: Michigan Posts: 19,326	Joe, that's easy, you don't check. What you do is limit the superchargers down to the base street level units on the market that can't make over 15 psi. With the S-trim it is possible to make about 18, so what you do is also put a specific limit on the diameter of what both your compressor and crank pulley can be. That IS easily measurable. Jeff is right, however. Even with limiting the class down to street level blowers, 15 psi, and a stock block you'd still have to spend a decent amount to build a competitive car. Probably around $10,000, at least. However, that is the financial range and type of motor I designed the class for, and that is around the amount of money a serious street / strip enthusiast will end up spending in the long haul building up his Stang. Certainly within the reach of a lot more racers than having to spend $30,000 to build a competitive car, that's for sure. However, it's still a combo that will be at best a high ten second to around a mid eleven second car, not a mid-nine second drag car like we will see this year. ------------------ Dan McClain, Editor The Mustang Works Online 1991 Mustang GT - 10.90 @ 122 Mph Built, Blown, and Fast as Hell! [This message has been edited by Dan McClain (edited 01-29-2000).]

01-30-2000, 08:46 AM	#6
WVKICKSTAND Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: WV Posts: 15	To limit boost to 15 lbs. couldn't you make everyone use a 15 lbs. blow off valve? I believe they are going to make the ATI-D series run restrictors this year arent they? Someone see's a need to limit this class if they are going to demand restrictors.Im not saying that they should even limit this class but maybe make a slower version of this class. Bob

01-30-2000, 08:57 AM	#7
jchambers Guest Posts: n/a	Not a bad idea, kinda Indy car style with a pop-off valve. Problem is, who would supply them and who would regulate them. I can see the masses running to their garages now to try and 'modify' the pop-off to get that little extra advantage! It takes an army of CART officials to inspect/oversee the pop-off valves and some serious testing machinery to make sure that they're all evenly matched. ------------------ Jeff Chambers T/S #4 12.40 Seconds/109.5 MPH http://www.kellnet.com/chambers/default.htm

01-30-2000, 09:48 AM	#8
WVKICKSTAND Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: WV Posts: 15	WELL DONT THEY TEAR DOWN MOTORS TO MAKE SURE YOUR RUNNING WITHIN THE GUIDLINES? BLOWING 15 LBS. THRU A BLOW OFF VALVE TO SEE IF IT WORKS AT THE RIGHT PRESSURE DOESNT SEEM TO BE THAT MUCH MORE WORK! AND THE BIGGEST LIMITATION WOULD BE A STOCK BLOCK. DSS CLAIMS THAT WITH THEY'RE MAIN GIRDDLE CUT OFF ON A STOCK BLOCK IS 650 HORSES.HOW MUCH CAN AN A-4 BLOCK HOLD ABOUT 1500? IF YOUR MAKING 30 LBS OF BOOST ON A STOCK BLOCK HOW LONG WOULD YOU SAY IT WILL LAST? AND I CANT SEE ANY BODY DOING TOP FUEL REBUILDS BETWEEN ROUNDS!THAT IS NOT A STREET CAR ANYWAY.THE BOOST THING WAS A SUGESTION I DONT HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS I FIGURED PEOPLE LIKE YOU WOULD HAVE SOME GOOD IDEAS INSTEAD OF PUT DOWNS LIKE THIS IS TO HARD OR THIS WOULD NEVER WORK.WHY DONT WE INSTEAD TRY TO FIND A WAY TO MAKE A MORE COMPETITIVE CLASS!!!

01-30-2000, 11:57 AM	#9
jchambers Guest Posts: n/a	Not trying to put you down at all. I was just trying to point out that the pop-off valve probably wouldn't solve all the problems. People will find a way to cheat or stretch the rules to the limits. I could be wrong here, but there probably are quite a few out there that manage to build mondo amounts of boost using a stock block and just take the regulart rebuild/replacement in stride. They've got the money to do it so that's how they approach it. Any class of racing is expensive no matter what the rules say. I hate to think how much I've got in my NA Trophy Stock car but I can tell you its more than $10K and that doesn't include the $15K for the car when I bought it new. You're always going to find someone that has the bucks to completely dominate a class (like the Murillos and Havemans), but there's a lot of satisfaction in it for the grass-roots guys when they can manage to knock them off every once in a while. The blowers of today have come a real long way in terms of output & efficiency so its just a fact that those that can afford the latest and greatest are going to run them. It leaves those on a budget out in the cold, but that's just how it goes. ------------------ Jeff Chambers T/S #4 12.40 Seconds/109.5 MPH http://www.kellnet.com/chambers/default.htm

01-30-2000, 12:12 PM	#10
STEEDAJEFF Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: CT Posts: 125	I have an easy answer.... Just run True street. you can win wherever your car ET's

01-31-2000, 07:01 PM	#11
Beni Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Jacksonville, NC(station) and Tampa FL Posts: 37	with block fillers, that stock block will be prett strong there are hundreds of different combos for class, but in the end its gonna be the people who take to the extreme, and leaving the poor by the side. How about a blower class like renagade, but with plain street tires(no DR). How about a T/S class that allows longtubes, battery relocation but must run on DR? the possibilities are endless.....

01-31-2000, 10:32 PM	#12
WVKICKSTAND Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: WV Posts: 15	Reserved for 1979 and later 2 door passenger cars. All cars must be FoMoCo factory production vehicles. Minimum weight is 3400 pounds including driver, nitrous oxide equipped vehicles deduct 100 pounds. This class is for "Street Driven Type" vehicles. A competition Factor, which may require the adjustment of weight or other restrictions to a particular competition combination, may be used, at any time, in the interest of safety as well as keeping competition even. Heads up, no breakout, Pro 'Tree eliminations. Class designation S/R followed by American Autosports Productions permanent number. I dont know about everyone but I have trouble keeping my 88 5.0 cool on the street with all the procharger stuf under the hood.I cant see having any amount of block filler in my motor. I guess im trying to be "too streetable" but thats what I like. I drive it to work at least once a week weather permitting.