FFW to allow Mountain Motors in Pro 5.0??? Why?

Eric4Nitrous · 06-14-2002, 02:41 PM

FFW has really screwed up this time. Why in god's name would you put mountain motors in cars that are meant for having small blocks?? FFW is now allowing as of 6/29/02 mountain motors in Pro 5.0. Some racers are very angry which they have every right to be. Some of these guys put all their money into a windsor style motor to just change everything overnight?? What gets me is that George Klass of the FFW thinks that the turbo small blocks will have the advantage over the big 700+ci cars?? Uhh no. His new rules are this: Cars stay the same as far as body appearance...chassis everything. The only difference is the motor. He's allowing motors up to 815ci's!! And putting them at a raceweight of 2300lbs!!! A 2300lb car with a 815ci motor will easily go mid 6's at over 220mph. I understand that some of the Pro 5.0 turbo cars have done close to that. But why deface the name of Pro 5.0?? What are they gonna call it now?? Pro 815?? Sorry for the rant but this has really gotten me in a foul mood.

Eric

DAN-MAN · 06-17-2002, 12:17 AM

I had mixed emotions about FFW's decision. Allowing big, big blocks into a small block only class? Have these guys lost their minds?! From one point, I can see it as being beneficial. There are usually only 6-8 Pro cars at an event anymore. This would really attract some of the IHRA guys over here. It would also increase car counts some. But with the fact that their now allowing big block cars in this class, that just plain pisses me off. This is an all small block class. You run a supercharger, nitrous or turbo. That's it. It reminds me alot of when Les Baer had the first tube car for the class. That shocked alot of guys. The class did grow to accept it; it just took time. Then they said that tubular front ends were legal. Well, now the class has accepted that some too. My point is this: In the past 3-4 years, the class has evolved too fast. Too much in my opinion. There are to few competitiors who can even afford to run in the class anymore. This class was better when the cars were back-halved, all steel, street cars. It was more affordable. There were more competitors back then. Car counts were better. But now it's too late to stop the changing I guess. Hopefully the class will survive.

On another point. It's funny to me that the FFW and NMRA have different rules concerning Pro 5.0. This will play a huge factor in the survival of the class.

Eric4Nitrous · 06-17-2002, 08:54 AM

I'm glad we see pretty much eye to eye on this. I think the main reason is that they indeed (FFW) wanted some of the IHRA guys to join too. But my point is..how are all these guys gonna go from just getting their turbo or nitrous or supercharged cars running really well this year..to go and build another motor to keep up with the IHRA guys?? FFW has some major BS rules. I was gonna run in FFW this year in Pro 5.0 but i'm not gonna build a 700+ci motor just to compete. Plus if Chris Holbrook shows up it's gonna be a HUGE massacre. Your gonna see real quick that FFW made a HUGE mistake.

Eric

DAN-MAN · 06-17-2002, 11:56 AM

Well, yes you are right about the nitrous and supercharged guys. However, the turbo Pro 5.0 cars are the only ones that will be able to run with the IHRA boys. The fastest supercharged cars are running 6.70's, and the nitrous cars are in the 6.80 range, I think. I don't think that a serious Pro 5.0 competitor will try to assemble a brand new engine to go out and play catch up. I think that some might jump ship and go run in the NMRA. The only one's I think that would stay would be Chuck Samuel and John Gullet. Right now there cars are the only match up for an IHRA Pro Stocker.

We'll just have to see what happens....

Stroked408 · 06-19-2002, 10:10 PM

I am glad to see I am not the only one that thinks this stinks. FFW has changed their rules the last 3-4 years almost every year.

Now what do we have,Mountain Motors? What next? Turbocharged Mountain Motors? It all started first with the 8.2 302 based block,now it is up to the 9.5 deck block? Mark my words it is really getting ready to get stupid now.

What I would like to see is FFW and NMRA both get their heads out of that dark hairy place that stanks. You want car counts to go up,make the rules the same,and watch how many guys cross-over.

It sure worked in 1999,and 2000 when John Gullett bounced back and forth along with Bill Rimmer,and a few others.

I blame the powers that be at FFW and NMRA for this mess.

Eric4Nitrous · 06-19-2002, 11:10 PM

Stroked408 you are exactly right. FFW stinks anyways..i've never liked their rules..I was talking with Billy about that a while back. He agreed that when he first started he looked at FFW's pro 5.0 rules and pretty much laughed at them. Now, their just a HUGE joke. The NMRA always has bigger car counts why?? Because they give the racers what they want. In my opinion the FFW just sucks major *****.

Eric

T/S #25 · 07-01-2002, 08:29 AM

Chuck just went a 6.49 @ 220 this past weekend in Virginia. I'm not trying to stir things up or start a flame job, just an observation.

tarmon8r · 07-01-2002, 03:42 PM

imofho

why not the rule change. ffw has jumped the shark. they need a resurgent of entries or the class will go under.

any way pro 50?

nobody is running a tru 5 0 anyway anymore

what is the differenc 400 inch small block against a 302 small block

and a mountain motor verse the 400 inch motors.

horsepower is horsepower.

no big deal to me. i like seeing fast mustangs period.

Mustang92 · 07-01-2002, 04:24 PM

Fact is they are looking for better attendence from the Pro cars. In Houston they only had 3, in Virgina they had 3. By opening it up to the mountain motor cars it will bring in more Pro cars which is what draws the crowds plain and simple. Pro 5.0 as we know it today costs a lot of money and most people don't have that kind of cash to start up a ground up race team. From the press release from FFW most of the racers didn't have a problem with it, some will change over and of course some will probably leave. The IHRA cars are running 6.56-6.60 @ 212 dead on and Samuels went 6.49 @ 220 this past weekend. When tuned and driven right the small block Turbos do have the big blocks covered but question is can the small block guys do it consistently.

Bill

Gaston · 07-07-2002, 09:16 PM

I agree with what everyone here has said. Yes it will
artificially get IHRA cars to visit but it defaces the entire class.

I like to see small blocks and power adders. NMRA is the only
place where I will now get a chance to see this. Funny cars with
a huge wheelbase, a deformed cougar/tbird carbon fiber shell,
and a mountain motor just don't appeal to me (and apparently
many other FFW fans as well).

Gaston

Vitriol · 07-10-2002, 03:31 PM

I'd like to take issue with the whole event itself. It is infinitely amusing how its called Fun Ford Weekend, yet none of my cars fit into a class. Last time I checked, Ford produced more than Fox bodies, more than Windsor-based engines, and produced automobiles before 1979.

Why is this? Are they scared of 25 year old vehicles?

DAN-MAN · 07-10-2002, 03:51 PM

If Samuels went 6.49 then the IHRA boys ain't to far off. I think FFW said something about letting them run at 2,350 lbs. IHRA's minimum weight is 2,400.

The fact that they're still going to let them run sucks.

Mustang92 · 07-10-2002, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vitriol
I'd like to take issue with the whole event itself. It is infinitely amusing how its called Fun Ford Weekend, yet none of my cars fit into a class. Last time I checked, Ford produced more than Fox bodies, more than Windsor-based engines, and produced automobiles before 1979.

Why is this? Are they scared of 25 year old vehicles?

MM&FF is a main sponsor of the series and they cater to the fox body cars that is why the showdown classes are limited to the 79 and newer cars. Just like the modular class is now limited to only Mustangs that orginally came with a mod motor because Team brand Mustang is sponsoring the class not team brand F150/Crown Vic/Expedition/etc...

Feel free to sponsor the series and then I'm sure you'll have more pull in what cars you allow as well as motor combinations.

Bill

DAN-MAN · 07-12-2002, 12:37 AM

Hey Radical GT, got any pics of your car? I'd like to see it man.

Dan

bigblock · 07-19-2002, 06:59 AM

I really don't understand why there is such big rule changes mid season, I could see it to make a bigger feild and to keep the compution closer but this is not the case this is to bring more players into the field and faster cars.

I would like to know if any of the Pro 5.0 teams are making a profit this year or are they just trying to break even?

I have a big block car and was working to run SSO but I like my money and I don't have the time to build a new car over and over.

What FFW needs to ask the racers in Pro 5.0 is why are they not coming to the races 1st.
You can't fix a problem if you don't have an anser from the cutomers that pay the bills.

How come Prostock in NHRA has a full field all the time now?
Every racer that shows up has a chance to win right they run very close times for the most part.

Oh well theres a big storm comming so I better shut this thing off.
God speed....

Mustang92 · 07-19-2002, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigblock
I would like to know if any of the Pro 5.0 teams are making a profit this year or are they just trying to break even?

No Pro 5.0 race team is making a profit no matter how sucessful they are, the cars alone cost in excess of $150,000 not to mention two rig, up keep on the motor, etc...

Bill

06-14-2002, 02:41 PM	#1
Eric4Nitrous Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Va Posts: 1,122	FFW to allow Mountain Motors in Pro 5.0??? Why? FFW has really screwed up this time. Why in god's name would you put mountain motors in cars that are meant for having small blocks?? FFW is now allowing as of 6/29/02 mountain motors in Pro 5.0. Some racers are very angry which they have every right to be. Some of these guys put all their money into a windsor style motor to just change everything overnight?? What gets me is that George Klass of the FFW thinks that the turbo small blocks will have the advantage over the big 700+ci cars?? Uhh no. His new rules are this: Cars stay the same as far as body appearance...chassis everything. The only difference is the motor. He's allowing motors up to 815ci's!! And putting them at a raceweight of 2300lbs!!! A 2300lb car with a 815ci motor will easily go mid 6's at over 220mph. I understand that some of the Pro 5.0 turbo cars have done close to that. But why deface the name of Pro 5.0?? What are they gonna call it now?? Pro 815?? Sorry for the rant but this has really gotten me in a foul mood. Eric __________________ 68 Camaro Gene Fulton 632ci Two stages of Jug 8.41 164mph Rockingham 1-26-03

06-17-2002, 08:54 AM	#3
Eric4Nitrous Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Va Posts: 1,122	I'm glad we see pretty much eye to eye on this. I think the main reason is that they indeed (FFW) wanted some of the IHRA guys to join too. But my point is..how are all these guys gonna go from just getting their turbo or nitrous or supercharged cars running really well this year..to go and build another motor to keep up with the IHRA guys?? FFW has some major BS rules. I was gonna run in FFW this year in Pro 5.0 but i'm not gonna build a 700+ci motor just to compete. Plus if Chris Holbrook shows up it's gonna be a HUGE massacre. Your gonna see real quick that FFW made a HUGE mistake. Eric __________________ 68 Camaro Gene Fulton 632ci Two stages of Jug 8.41 164mph Rockingham 1-26-03

06-19-2002, 10:10 PM	#5
Stroked408 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southwest Posts: 131	Mountain motors I am glad to see I am not the only one that thinks this stinks. FFW has changed their rules the last 3-4 years almost every year. Now what do we have,Mountain Motors? What next? Turbocharged Mountain Motors? It all started first with the 8.2 302 based block,now it is up to the 9.5 deck block? Mark my words it is really getting ready to get stupid now. What I would like to see is FFW and NMRA both get their heads out of that dark hairy place that stanks. You want car counts to go up,make the rules the same,and watch how many guys cross-over. It sure worked in 1999,and 2000 when John Gullett bounced back and forth along with Bill Rimmer,and a few others. I blame the powers that be at FFW and NMRA for this mess. __________________ Deeper,Harder,Faster Stage Deeper Launch Harder Go Faster

06-19-2002, 11:10 PM	#6
Eric4Nitrous Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Va Posts: 1,122	Stroked408 you are exactly right. FFW stinks anyways..i've never liked their rules..I was talking with Billy about that a while back. He agreed that when he first started he looked at FFW's pro 5.0 rules and pretty much laughed at them. Now, their just a HUGE joke. The NMRA always has bigger car counts why?? Because they give the racers what they want. In my opinion the FFW just sucks major *****. Eric __________________ 68 Camaro Gene Fulton 632ci Two stages of Jug 8.41 164mph Rockingham 1-26-03

07-01-2002, 08:29 AM	#7
T/S #25 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pinellas Park Posts: 7	Chuck just went a 6.49 @ 220 this past weekend in Virginia. I'm not trying to stir things up or start a flame job, just an observation. __________________ Joe FordSpeed.com S/W #25 11.79 @ 115.00

06-17-2002, 12:17 AM	#2
DAN-MAN Confederate Cowboy Join Date: May 2002 Location: Southeast Missouri Posts: 546	I had mixed emotions about FFW's decision. Allowing big, big blocks into a small block only class? Have these guys lost their minds?! From one point, I can see it as being beneficial. There are usually only 6-8 Pro cars at an event anymore. This would really attract some of the IHRA guys over here. It would also increase car counts some. But with the fact that their now allowing big block cars in this class, that just plain pisses me off. This is an all small block class. You run a supercharger, nitrous or turbo. That's it. It reminds me alot of when Les Baer had the first tube car for the class. That shocked alot of guys. The class did grow to accept it; it just took time. Then they said that tubular front ends were legal. Well, now the class has accepted that some too. My point is this: In the past 3-4 years, the class has evolved too fast. Too much in my opinion. There are to few competitiors who can even afford to run in the class anymore. This class was better when the cars were back-halved, all steel, street cars. It was more affordable. There were more competitors back then. Car counts were better. But now it's too late to stop the changing I guess. Hopefully the class will survive. On another point. It's funny to me that the FFW and NMRA have different rules concerning Pro 5.0. This will play a huge factor in the survival of the class.

06-17-2002, 11:56 AM	#4
DAN-MAN Confederate Cowboy Join Date: May 2002 Location: Southeast Missouri Posts: 546	Well, yes you are right about the nitrous and supercharged guys. However, the turbo Pro 5.0 cars are the only ones that will be able to run with the IHRA boys. The fastest supercharged cars are running 6.70's, and the nitrous cars are in the 6.80 range, I think. I don't think that a serious Pro 5.0 competitor will try to assemble a brand new engine to go out and play catch up. I think that some might jump ship and go run in the NMRA. The only one's I think that would stay would be Chuck Samuel and John Gullet. Right now there cars are the only match up for an IHRA Pro Stocker. We'll just have to see what happens....

07-01-2002, 03:42 PM	#8
tarmon8r Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: manassas, va Posts: 186	imofho why not the rule change. ffw has jumped the shark. they need a resurgent of entries or the class will go under. any way pro 50? nobody is running a tru 5 0 anyway anymore what is the differenc 400 inch small block against a 302 small block and a mountain motor verse the 400 inch motors. horsepower is horsepower. no big deal to me. i like seeing fast mustangs period.

07-01-2002, 04:24 PM	#9
Mustang92 Drag Racer! Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Lake Worth, FL USA Posts: 757	Fact is they are looking for better attendence from the Pro cars. In Houston they only had 3, in Virgina they had 3. By opening it up to the mountain motor cars it will bring in more Pro cars which is what draws the crowds plain and simple. Pro 5.0 as we know it today costs a lot of money and most people don't have that kind of cash to start up a ground up race team. From the press release from FFW most of the racers didn't have a problem with it, some will change over and of course some will probably leave. The IHRA cars are running 6.56-6.60 @ 212 dead on and Samuels went 6.49 @ 220 this past weekend. When tuned and driven right the small block Turbos do have the big blocks covered but question is can the small block guys do it consistently. Bill __________________ 2000 GT VRS O/R X, Dynomax Bullets, Steeda Pulleys, Pro-M 80MM, 4.30s, UPR Pro Series Suspension, UPR Tubular K-member, MAC Longtubes, Bullitt Intake, TKO, VT Engine Stage 1 NA Cams, SCT Tune. 285 RWHP/296 RWTQ 11.97 @ 113.20 M/M 100, 7085 www.uprproducts.com www.ponyexpressperformance.com www.modulardepot.com

07-07-2002, 09:16 PM	#10
Gaston Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Cincinnati OH 45211 Posts: 10	I agree with what everyone here has said. Yes it will artificially get IHRA cars to visit but it defaces the entire class. I like to see small blocks and power adders. NMRA is the only place where I will now get a chance to see this. Funny cars with a huge wheelbase, a deformed cougar/tbird carbon fiber shell, and a mountain motor just don't appeal to me (and apparently many other FFW fans as well). Gaston

07-10-2002, 03:31 PM	#11
Vitriol Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2	I'd like to take issue with the whole event itself. It is infinitely amusing how its called Fun Ford Weekend, yet none of my cars fit into a class. Last time I checked, Ford produced more than Fox bodies, more than Windsor-based engines, and produced automobiles before 1979. Why is this? Are they scared of 25 year old vehicles?

07-10-2002, 03:51 PM	#12
DAN-MAN Confederate Cowboy Join Date: May 2002 Location: Southeast Missouri Posts: 546	If Samuels went 6.49 then the IHRA boys ain't to far off. I think FFW said something about letting them run at 2,350 lbs. IHRA's minimum weight is 2,400. The fact that they're still going to let them run sucks.

07-12-2002, 12:37 AM	#14
DAN-MAN Confederate Cowboy Join Date: May 2002 Location: Southeast Missouri Posts: 546	Hey Radical GT, got any pics of your car? I'd like to see it man. Dan __________________ DAN-MAN RHC MEMBER #25

07-19-2002, 06:59 AM	#15
bigblock Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Cherry Valley ma usa Posts: 36	rule changes I really don't understand why there is such big rule changes mid season, I could see it to make a bigger feild and to keep the compution closer but this is not the case this is to bring more players into the field and faster cars. I would like to know if any of the Pro 5.0 teams are making a profit this year or are they just trying to break even? I have a big block car and was working to run SSO but I like my money and I don't have the time to build a new car over and over. What FFW needs to ask the racers in Pro 5.0 is why are they not coming to the races 1st. You can't fix a problem if you don't have an anser from the cutomers that pay the bills. How come Prostock in NHRA has a full field all the time now? Every racer that shows up has a chance to win right they run very close times for the most part. Oh well theres a big storm comming so I better shut this thing off. God speed....

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