sticky tires

stanger8172 · 04-02-2001, 09:03 AM

Jeff,
My car has a clutch and no drag radials(ZR 16's). The estimated fwhp is 280. I also have a stock shifter and no rev. limiter. Will it help to do a burnie in the bleach box? Also, what do you think I will run with 2.73 gears if I leave the lights at 2500-3000 rpm's? I was at Great Lakes Dragaway in Union Grove,Wi and saw alot of other Mustangs pullin' 14's. One Camaro ripped a 10.50! Me and my g/f had a great time!!!

Thanks,

Brian
---------------------
'91 LX convertible, T-5, ported/polished/milled .030 E7 heads, 1.94/1.60 stainless valves, triple valve springs, 1.6rr, March Performance pulley set, short belt, K&N, electric fans, glasspacks w/dumps

Jeff Chambers · 04-02-2001, 02:21 PM

The jury is split on burnouts with regular radials. My preference on street tires has be to drive around the waterbox and just do a real short burnout between the waterbox and the starting line; more to clean off the tires than to heat the rubber. You'll probably spin too much trying to leave at 2500-3000. I'd start off leaving just off idle and easing into the throttle. If the track will hold, up your launch rpm on the next round. The ol' vert weighs a bunch, so I'm going to take a wild guess at 14.50 at 98. Let me know how close I come.

------------------
Jeff Chambers
Trophy Stock #3
11.86 Seconds / 113.8 MPH
Chambers Racing Team

stanger8172 · 04-02-2001, 07:22 PM

Jeff,

I have read in Hot Rod magazine that you don't need to do a burnie on radials plus I think I won some showdowns by not doing one. I'll try leaving at idle, like you said, then ease into oblivion (lol)Hmmnnn, you don't like convertibles huh? Just kidding!Yeah that 14.50 estimate kinda hit a sore spot. Oh well, raceday is going to be a blast anyhow!!! And I don't mean Taco Bell for a power adder!Everyone keeps telling me gears so that mod will be coming a.s.a.p. Happy Trails!

-Brian-

stanger8172 · 04-02-2001, 07:30 PM

Whoops, I forgot to mention that I had her weighed in. The slip said 3200 lbs. without me(145 lbs.) in it but with the spare, bottle of antifreeze, two tire irons and a jack, and the backseat. Do you still believe a 14.50? I problably won't get to race it for about a month because I am having a Centerforce Dual Friction and a Motorsport adjustable clutch quadrant installed. I'll drop you a line and let you know what the 'vert did at the track a.s.a.p.!

-Brian-

white00GT · 04-02-2001, 10:04 PM

Don't do a burnout with radials!!. If you do anything with regular radials on do as Jeff said before and just spin them over once or so to clean them off. With regular radials the hotter you get them the less they grip. Also when you launch with radials on be real careful when you launch, because when radials break free they don't catch back-up like slicks do. So be prepared to pedeal it if you break them free.

------------------
2000 Mustang GT

stanger8172 · 04-03-2001, 01:08 AM

white00GT,

When you say "catch back up" do you mean giddeeup, or when the tires stop spinnin' and they start hookin'? I can picture a stock LS-1 that took the lead on a dry hop and then my tires stop shreddin' rubber and start to hook and now suddenly I am passing the LS-1 like it ran out of gas and all you hear is "eeeba eeeba undulay undulay eeeba eeeba EEEHAAA!"

Jeff Chambers · 04-03-2001, 06:42 AM

If you've got that convertible down to 3200 pounds (3350 with you in it), you're doing pretty well for a droptop. At that weight, you might be a little better so I'm going to revise my estimate to a 14.3@98.5 on a good pass. Don't let me down.

Remember that at 13.99 you've got to have a bar in that droptop.

------------------
Jeff Chambers
Trophy Stock #3
11.86 Seconds / 113.8 MPH
Chambers Racing Team

[This message has been edited by jeff chambers (edited 04-03-2001).]

stanger8172 · 04-03-2001, 08:59 AM

Hopefully that scale was accurate, I paid $5 bucks for it at the city dump. Oh yeah, I can see that 13.99! The technical instructor at MATC told me to bring my car in today for the clutch job so I will see it next week. Then I will install the adjustable clutch quadrant kit soon after. I will get back to you sometime in May about my e.t. Good Luck in any competitions coming up!

white00GT · 04-03-2001, 05:35 PM

When I say "catch back up" I mean that by, the whole reason that you do a burn out with slicks or D/R's is because the hotter you get them the more traction they have. If a slick or D/R starts to spin it is also causing them to get hotter producing more grip, they will eventually get to the point that they are so hot that they will stop spinning and start gripping; coins the phrase "catching back up." If a regular street tire starts to spin it also causes heat, but street tires aren't made out of the same heat reactive compunds that slicks or D/R's are. So basically heat is a street tires worst enemy, the cooler you can keep them the better they will grip. Once street tires start to spin it creates excesive heat, the more heat you poor into a a street tires the less grip they have. Hope this helped to clarify things.

------------------
2000 Mustang GT

fiveotony · 04-03-2001, 09:21 PM

Hey I ran the 1st 2 years of trophy stock on street tires 16 and 17 inch tires until this year. My car when I weighed in at 3600 pounds in last years SBSO I went on 17 inch tires no burnout a 13.85 @100.57 with a 60 ft time of 2.00. It can be done!
Tony Goon
T/S #66
13.503 @ 100.12

stanger8172 · 04-03-2001, 11:03 PM

white00GT- Thanks for clearing that term up. From what I saw at my first outing to a drag track I get it now. Also, today at work this guy comes in who wanted 225/60/ZR16 Bridgestone Re 730's( I have these exact same one's except 50 series) on new rims. Turns out he goes to the same track I went to and he was saying the same exact things you guys were and also that I should run the rear tires at 25psi. He says this is safe on ZR's. What do you think?

fiveotony- How much horse and rear gear did you have on that setup? I have about 280 fwhp(estimated) and 2.73 gears. Thanks for supercharging my ego! I am shooting for a 14.3 sec e.t.( just crossed fingers and toes)

white00GT · 04-04-2001, 12:41 AM

When I go to the track if I run on my street tires (Nitto 555 283/35/17) I usualy leave the air pressure at 30-32psi. I would feel safe to say that you can run ZR's down to 25psi, but what I would do for the first couple of runs is have somebody watch the tires to see if they crinkle real bad or not. With low air pressure you run the risk of your tires "wrinkle walling" (think low pressure slicks on a hard launch), and if your tires should do that to the extreme you could cause the tires to unseat thereselfs on the beads and blow out. I would feel comfortable with 25psi though. I'm really not sure on the construction of the Bridgestone Re 730's, but I also have a set of Nitto 555'R D/R's 275/40/17 that I have run as low as 16psi cold (before burn out) and had no problems with.

------------------
2000 Mustang GT

fiveotony · 04-04-2001, 08:46 PM

Thanks for the kind words. I was running a 3.73 Gear. Launching from a dead idle. I was only making about 245 HP to the Rear Wheels. I had about 27 lbs of air in the tires 17 inch size Faulken ZR rated tires. They were 245/45/17 inch tires mounted on heavy Cobra R 17 inch rims. I hope this helps a little. Good Luck! If ya need anything just E-mail me I will answer any question you have!
Tony Goon
T/S #66
13.53 @ 100.12

Jeff Chambers · 04-05-2001, 06:16 AM

Don't forget about the broken seat Tony. That alone was worth two-tenths.

------------------
Jeff Chambers
Trophy Stock #3
11.86 Seconds / 113.8 MPH
Chambers Racing Team

fiveotony · 04-05-2001, 06:26 PM

OK Jeff no need to give away the secret weapon! Just for that I am gonna break 2 seats in Atlanta Just to get in the 12 second zone!!! See ya Soon!
Tony Goon
T/S #66
13.53 @ 100.12

Killercanary · 04-09-2001, 11:26 PM

I have 270FWHP. But my car is a tank- the lightest it ever weighed was 3510 without me, without the spare, jack, trunk carpet, trunk plastic, 1/8th tank of gas, alum. DS, removed 25lb weight in fender, removed 10lb weight on rear end, and the list goes on. The car actually weighed 3803lbs with me on a 97.2mph pass at Englishtown. I bet your car is heavier than you think. My dad's 91GT without the spare, jack, rear seat, and trunk carpet weighed 3200lbs with an 1/4 tank of gas. I was running 14.3's at 97mph with 2.08-2.10 60's on 245-50-16 Kelly H rated tires set at 25lbs of pressure. I was launching at 2000-2200 rpms slipping the clutch to negate wheelspin. Now I leave at 4 grand on my Nitto DR's set at 17lbs od air and I run 13.8's at 98.5mph with 1.91 60's. Do just enough burn to clean off the tires. Start by leaving at idle, then slowly up the revs and use the clutch to control wheel spin. Don't give up though as it takes lots and lots of practice to get into the 2.0 range with street tires, but it can be done. I actually know of two guys that cut 1.9 60's on street tire with 100% stock suspensions, but they leave at 4-5 grand. They absolutely murder their clutches too, but I've seen them do it at the track with my own eyes and I've seen their slips- needless to say this was a feat I never accomplished

------------------
95 GT convt' 5 speed, 3.73's,FMS HD clutch, Pro 5.0 shifter, ASP alum. underdrive pulleys, Bassani offroad X pipe, 2 chmbr flowmasters, K&N w/o silencer, edelbrock performer intake, FRPP 65mm T-body, FRPP shorty headers, FRPP aluminum driveshaft.Hooker 4pt chrome car bar, Xenon/Wings West ground effects, custom interior
Best ET: 13.83
Best MPH: 98.55mph with Best 60': 1.91 on Nitto DR's
Homepage: <A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/pa2/killercanary" TARGET=_blank>http://www.angelfire

fiveotony · 04-12-2001, 06:49 AM

Jeez those guys must have been great drivers to pull off those 60ft times. I was very happy with the 2.0 60 fts I had on street tires in Trophy Stock and I like I said I had to launch at dead idle with 35 lbs of air in those Faulken ZR Rated tires to get it. Thats Impressice what those guys cutting 1.9 short times and launching at 5,000 RPM.
Tony Goon
T/S #66
13.53 @ 100.12

Rick 91GT · 04-13-2001, 10:03 AM

I went 13.28 on radials with a 1.84 60ft time. I found the best method to launching as driving off the line, but it wasn't common to spin them in 3rd. BFG RADIAL T/A 275/50/15's

------------------
Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon!

[This message has been edited by Rick 91GT (edited 04-13-2001).]

04-02-2001, 09:03 AM	#1
stanger8172 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Milwaukee,Wisconsin Posts: 380	sticky tires Jeff, My car has a clutch and no drag radials(ZR 16's). The estimated fwhp is 280. I also have a stock shifter and no rev. limiter. Will it help to do a burnie in the bleach box? Also, what do you think I will run with 2.73 gears if I leave the lights at 2500-3000 rpm's? I was at Great Lakes Dragaway in Union Grove,Wi and saw alot of other Mustangs pullin' 14's. One Camaro ripped a 10.50! Me and my g/f had a great time!!! Thanks, Brian --------------------- '91 LX convertible, T-5, ported/polished/milled .030 E7 heads, 1.94/1.60 stainless valves, triple valve springs, 1.6rr, March Performance pulley set, short belt, K&N, electric fans, glasspacks w/dumps

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04-02-2001, 02:21 PM	#2
Jeff Chambers Moderator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Milan, OH Posts: 2,699	The jury is split on burnouts with regular radials. My preference on street tires has be to drive around the waterbox and just do a real short burnout between the waterbox and the starting line; more to clean off the tires than to heat the rubber. You'll probably spin too much trying to leave at 2500-3000. I'd start off leaving just off idle and easing into the throttle. If the track will hold, up your launch rpm on the next round. The ol' vert weighs a bunch, so I'm going to take a wild guess at 14.50 at 98. Let me know how close I come. ------------------ Jeff Chambers Trophy Stock #3 11.86 Seconds / 113.8 MPH Chambers Racing Team

04-02-2001, 07:22 PM	#3
stanger8172 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Milwaukee,Wisconsin Posts: 380	Jeff, I have read in Hot Rod magazine that you don't need to do a burnie on radials plus I think I won some showdowns by not doing one. I'll try leaving at idle, like you said, then ease into oblivion (lol)Hmmnnn, you don't like convertibles huh? Just kidding!Yeah that 14.50 estimate kinda hit a sore spot. Oh well, raceday is going to be a blast anyhow!!! And I don't mean Taco Bell for a power adder!Everyone keeps telling me gears so that mod will be coming a.s.a.p. Happy Trails! -Brian-

04-02-2001, 07:30 PM	#4
stanger8172 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Milwaukee,Wisconsin Posts: 380	Whoops, I forgot to mention that I had her weighed in. The slip said 3200 lbs. without me(145 lbs.) in it but with the spare, bottle of antifreeze, two tire irons and a jack, and the backseat. Do you still believe a 14.50? I problably won't get to race it for about a month because I am having a Centerforce Dual Friction and a Motorsport adjustable clutch quadrant installed. I'll drop you a line and let you know what the 'vert did at the track a.s.a.p.! -Brian-

04-02-2001, 10:04 PM	#5
white00GT Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Pawleys Island SC Posts: 229	Don't do a burnout with radials!!. If you do anything with regular radials on do as Jeff said before and just spin them over once or so to clean them off. With regular radials the hotter you get them the less they grip. Also when you launch with radials on be real careful when you launch, because when radials break free they don't catch back-up like slicks do. So be prepared to pedeal it if you break them free. ------------------ 2000 Mustang GT

04-03-2001, 01:08 AM	#6
stanger8172 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Milwaukee,Wisconsin Posts: 380	white00GT, When you say "catch back up" do you mean giddeeup, or when the tires stop spinnin' and they start hookin'? I can picture a stock LS-1 that took the lead on a dry hop and then my tires stop shreddin' rubber and start to hook and now suddenly I am passing the LS-1 like it ran out of gas and all you hear is "eeeba eeeba undulay undulay eeeba eeeba EEEHAAA!"

04-03-2001, 06:42 AM	#7
Jeff Chambers Moderator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Milan, OH Posts: 2,699	If you've got that convertible down to 3200 pounds (3350 with you in it), you're doing pretty well for a droptop. At that weight, you might be a little better so I'm going to revise my estimate to a 14.3@98.5 on a good pass. Don't let me down. Remember that at 13.99 you've got to have a bar in that droptop. ------------------ Jeff Chambers Trophy Stock #3 11.86 Seconds / 113.8 MPH Chambers Racing Team [This message has been edited by jeff chambers (edited 04-03-2001).]

04-03-2001, 08:59 AM	#8
stanger8172 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Milwaukee,Wisconsin Posts: 380	Hopefully that scale was accurate, I paid $5 bucks for it at the city dump. Oh yeah, I can see that 13.99! The technical instructor at MATC told me to bring my car in today for the clutch job so I will see it next week. Then I will install the adjustable clutch quadrant kit soon after. I will get back to you sometime in May about my e.t. Good Luck in any competitions coming up!

04-03-2001, 05:35 PM	#9
white00GT Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Pawleys Island SC Posts: 229	When I say "catch back up" I mean that by, the whole reason that you do a burn out with slicks or D/R's is because the hotter you get them the more traction they have. If a slick or D/R starts to spin it is also causing them to get hotter producing more grip, they will eventually get to the point that they are so hot that they will stop spinning and start gripping; coins the phrase "catching back up." If a regular street tire starts to spin it also causes heat, but street tires aren't made out of the same heat reactive compunds that slicks or D/R's are. So basically heat is a street tires worst enemy, the cooler you can keep them the better they will grip. Once street tires start to spin it creates excesive heat, the more heat you poor into a a street tires the less grip they have. Hope this helped to clarify things. ------------------ 2000 Mustang GT

04-03-2001, 09:21 PM	#10
fiveotony Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: oakwood, Ga., USA Posts: 221	Hey I ran the 1st 2 years of trophy stock on street tires 16 and 17 inch tires until this year. My car when I weighed in at 3600 pounds in last years SBSO I went on 17 inch tires no burnout a 13.85 @100.57 with a 60 ft time of 2.00. It can be done! Tony Goon T/S #66 13.503 @ 100.12

04-03-2001, 11:03 PM	#11
stanger8172 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Milwaukee,Wisconsin Posts: 380	white00GT- Thanks for clearing that term up. From what I saw at my first outing to a drag track I get it now. Also, today at work this guy comes in who wanted 225/60/ZR16 Bridgestone Re 730's( I have these exact same one's except 50 series) on new rims. Turns out he goes to the same track I went to and he was saying the same exact things you guys were and also that I should run the rear tires at 25psi. He says this is safe on ZR's. What do you think? fiveotony- How much horse and rear gear did you have on that setup? I have about 280 fwhp(estimated) and 2.73 gears. Thanks for supercharging my ego! I am shooting for a 14.3 sec e.t.( just crossed fingers and toes)

04-04-2001, 12:41 AM	#12
white00GT Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Pawleys Island SC Posts: 229	When I go to the track if I run on my street tires (Nitto 555 283/35/17) I usualy leave the air pressure at 30-32psi. I would feel safe to say that you can run ZR's down to 25psi, but what I would do for the first couple of runs is have somebody watch the tires to see if they crinkle real bad or not. With low air pressure you run the risk of your tires "wrinkle walling" (think low pressure slicks on a hard launch), and if your tires should do that to the extreme you could cause the tires to unseat thereselfs on the beads and blow out. I would feel comfortable with 25psi though. I'm really not sure on the construction of the Bridgestone Re 730's, but I also have a set of Nitto 555'R D/R's 275/40/17 that I have run as low as 16psi cold (before burn out) and had no problems with. ------------------ 2000 Mustang GT

04-04-2001, 08:46 PM	#13
fiveotony Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: oakwood, Ga., USA Posts: 221	Thanks for the kind words. I was running a 3.73 Gear. Launching from a dead idle. I was only making about 245 HP to the Rear Wheels. I had about 27 lbs of air in the tires 17 inch size Faulken ZR rated tires. They were 245/45/17 inch tires mounted on heavy Cobra R 17 inch rims. I hope this helps a little. Good Luck! If ya need anything just E-mail me I will answer any question you have! Tony Goon T/S #66 13.53 @ 100.12

04-05-2001, 06:16 AM	#14
Jeff Chambers Moderator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Milan, OH Posts: 2,699	Don't forget about the broken seat Tony. That alone was worth two-tenths. ------------------ Jeff Chambers Trophy Stock #3 11.86 Seconds / 113.8 MPH Chambers Racing Team

04-05-2001, 06:26 PM	#15
fiveotony Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: oakwood, Ga., USA Posts: 221	OK Jeff no need to give away the secret weapon! Just for that I am gonna break 2 seats in Atlanta Just to get in the 12 second zone!!! See ya Soon! Tony Goon T/S #66 13.53 @ 100.12

04-09-2001, 11:26 PM	#16
Killercanary Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Altoona, PA Posts: 336	I have 270FWHP. But my car is a tank- the lightest it ever weighed was 3510 without me, without the spare, jack, trunk carpet, trunk plastic, 1/8th tank of gas, alum. DS, removed 25lb weight in fender, removed 10lb weight on rear end, and the list goes on. The car actually weighed 3803lbs with me on a 97.2mph pass at Englishtown. I bet your car is heavier than you think. My dad's 91GT without the spare, jack, rear seat, and trunk carpet weighed 3200lbs with an 1/4 tank of gas. I was running 14.3's at 97mph with 2.08-2.10 60's on 245-50-16 Kelly H rated tires set at 25lbs of pressure. I was launching at 2000-2200 rpms slipping the clutch to negate wheelspin. Now I leave at 4 grand on my Nitto DR's set at 17lbs od air and I run 13.8's at 98.5mph with 1.91 60's. Do just enough burn to clean off the tires. Start by leaving at idle, then slowly up the revs and use the clutch to control wheel spin. Don't give up though as it takes lots and lots of practice to get into the 2.0 range with street tires, but it can be done. I actually know of two guys that cut 1.9 60's on street tire with 100% stock suspensions, but they leave at 4-5 grand. They absolutely murder their clutches too, but I've seen them do it at the track with my own eyes and I've seen their slips- needless to say this was a feat I never accomplished ------------------ 95 GT convt' 5 speed, 3.73's,FMS HD clutch, Pro 5.0 shifter, ASP alum. underdrive pulleys, Bassani offroad X pipe, 2 chmbr flowmasters, K&N w/o silencer, edelbrock performer intake, FRPP 65mm T-body, FRPP shorty headers, FRPP aluminum driveshaft.Hooker 4pt chrome car bar, Xenon/Wings West ground effects, custom interior Best ET: 13.83 Best MPH: 98.55mph with Best 60': 1.91 on Nitto DR's Homepage: <A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/pa2/killercanary" TARGET=_blank>http://www.angelfire

04-12-2001, 06:49 AM	#17
fiveotony Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: oakwood, Ga., USA Posts: 221	Jeez those guys must have been great drivers to pull off those 60ft times. I was very happy with the 2.0 60 fts I had on street tires in Trophy Stock and I like I said I had to launch at dead idle with 35 lbs of air in those Faulken ZR Rated tires to get it. Thats Impressice what those guys cutting 1.9 short times and launching at 5,000 RPM. Tony Goon T/S #66 13.53 @ 100.12

04-13-2001, 10:03 AM	#18
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	I went 13.28 on radials with a 1.84 60ft time. I found the best method to launching as driving off the line, but it wasn't common to spin them in 3rd. BFG RADIAL T/A 275/50/15's ------------------ Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon! [This message has been edited by Rick 91GT (edited 04-13-2001).]