Does hot water freeze faster than cold water?

daveGT · 09-04-2003, 12:47 PM

Someone at work brought up this age old question, and I couldn't believe the varied responses. This is an "old wives tale" and some believe it's validity.

What does this board think? Chime in!

Sicy Stang · 09-04-2003, 01:39 PM

Hmm.. I have no idea LOL. I would think already cold water would freeze faster....

Hethj7 · 09-04-2003, 02:49 PM

I don't see how hot water would freeze faster.

If hot and cold water are both placed in a freezer, the heat from both of them needs to be removed in order for freezing to occur. It would seem to me that the cold water already has a head start since some of its heat is not even there to begin with.

Maroon 5.0 LX · 09-04-2003, 03:05 PM

I have been told hot water will freeze first because there is less oxygen than in cold water. Never did an experiment.

VeNuM · 09-04-2003, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Maroon 5.0 LX
I have been told hot water will freeze first because there is less oxygen than in cold water. Never did an experiment.

I've been told the same thing....~Brian

Hethj7 · 09-04-2003, 07:18 PM

It looks like it can go either way, depending on how much water is allowed to evaporate. Do a quick search on google and all kinds of articles come up.

This one seems to most concisely explain it.

lx mike · 09-04-2003, 07:24 PM

we need to try this out for ourselves. in about 4 months someone that lives in the midwest. sicy?

could try this out for us!

Sicy Stang · 09-05-2003, 12:27 AM

Does it look like I live in the Midwest??

<-----------------

Nothing freezes here lol

Fawkes · 09-05-2003, 01:33 AM

The theory behind this is that the heat in the water causes the motor in the freezer to start up, causing it to work harder, to produce more cold. Is this trure? I don't know, but it sounds good.

tireburner163 · 09-05-2003, 04:44 AM

When a container of water is placed in a freezer, there are many factors which can affect the length of time it will take to freeze, and under the proper combination of circumstances, a given volume of hot water in a container may freeze faster than the same volume of cold water.

joe4speed · 09-05-2003, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fawkes
The theory behind this is that the heat in the water causes the motor in the freezer to start up, causing it to work harder, to produce more cold. Is this trure? I don't know, but it sounds good.

Your compressor in your freezer only gets so cold. it doesn't work harder or get colder, it just stays on longer if it's hotter in your freezer.

As for the water freezing faster, I've also heard that before many times, but don't know if it's true or not.

RBatson · 09-05-2003, 06:46 AM

Interesting, the first thought that popped in my head is that the cold water would freeze faster because it has a head start. Then I started thinking that the density of the water could make a big difference, cold water is denser than hot water... actually less water to freeze, the cubes of the hot water may be smaller. Does hot water evaporate quicker at colder temps?? Would the same weight of water instead of volume make a difference? I think an experiment is in order, god I love chemistry

Couple of things I feel I want to share, the cold water out of the tap is cleaner than the hot water. Don't know why I felt the need to share that..

If you want to make something cold fast, putting it in ice water will make it cold faster than just putting it on ice. The reason for this is that the ice transfers energy the most at its freezing/melting point. You can make a hot beer ice cold in about 10 minutes by submerging it in ice water, something that comes in handy if you're a drinker(like me). This is what I learned in college

RBatson · 09-05-2003, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tireburner163
When a container of water is placed in a freezer, there are many factors which can affect the length of time it will take to freeze, and under the proper combination of circumstances, a given volume of hot water in a container may freeze faster than the same volume of cold water.

Talk about covering your ***

That's about the biggest lump of nothing I think I've ever read.. Ever consider politics?

Hethj7 · 09-05-2003, 10:04 AM

Did no one read that article I linked to earlier?

It explains there under what circumstances hot water will freeze faster than cold water. A search on google will give more in depth articles, but the one I linked to covers the bsics pretty well.

tireburner163 · 09-05-2003, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tireburner163
When a container of water is placed in a freezer, there are many factors which can affect the length of time it will take to freeze, and under the proper combination of circumstances, a given volume of hot water in a container may freeze faster than the same volume of cold water.

WHOA WHOA WHOA........I didn't post that, WTF

I was farkin asleep at 4:44AM

Sicy Stang · 09-05-2003, 01:59 PM

Rev · 09-05-2003, 05:35 PM

This has been bounced around since I was in college and I graduated in '67, LOL. It really is an old wive's tale but like many others, it has a grain of truth.

If all the conditions are the same, the cooler water will freeze faster every time. If a container of slightly warm water is placed in a freezer, the first thing that happens is a slight melting of the frost coat lining the freezer. This rapidly refreezes making a very good conduction bond to the container of warmer water. A container of cold water wouldn't make that improved conduction bond. Rbatson alluded to this "improved conduction" circumstance in the beer in the refrigerated air vs. beer in the freezing water analagy.

The improved conduction to the warmer water container is said to overcome the time difference required to freeze the warmer water and therefore feeze the warmer water first.

I've never heard anyone quantify the temperature difference in any argument. Obviously we're not talking about near boiling water versus near freezing water.

At any rate, this is how I've heard this postulation explained.

Rev

joe4speed · 09-06-2003, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tireburner163
WHOA WHOA WHOA........I didn't post that, WTF

I was farkin asleep at 4:44AM

LOL

Ty'97Cobra · 09-06-2003, 10:16 PM

cold water freezes first

cold water freezes CLEAR...

hot water freezes hazy....

try it...

daveGT · 09-07-2003, 10:01 AM

Great link, Hethj7!!

I posted this after a friend from work swore that is was true, furthermore, he was also told so by a college instructor (?) back in the day, and proceded to conduct his own experiment to confirm the claim. His experiment apparently validated the statement, he claimed. After an informal pole at the office, I found that a solid 50% heard of this and believed it was true, but could not explain why. Then I started thinking about it. Water, like any other liquid has a specific heat. Heating and cooling are reversable, so therefore, based on this logic, cold water will boil faster than warm water. Bla, Bla, Bla, goes my lecture to him, based on my very rusty chemistry and thermodynamics knowledge.

Combining my good common sense and somewhat educated/experienced academic and professional experience, I told him he was nuts, and cold water freezes faster than hot water! Come on man!

I told him his experiment was flawed, not controlled properly, and he drew the wrong conclusions from the results. He conducted the experiment again, using more controls as we discussed, and indeed, the cold water froze quicker.

However, it seems to me that people tend to think that hot water does freeze faster based on personnal real-life experience - except they draw the wrong conclusions.

It turns out we were both wrong (him more than me! LOL!), for hot water will freeze quicker if stored in a highly insulated container (wooden bucket, styrofoam), but it does not freeze quicker just because it is hotter.

Good replys, guys.

09-04-2003, 12:47 PM	#1
daveGT Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sarcoxie, MO, USA Posts: 80	Does hot water freeze faster than cold water? Someone at work brought up this age old question, and I couldn't believe the varied responses. This is an "old wives tale" and some believe it's validity. What does this board think? Chime in! __________________ '99 Cobra Red, stock so far, except for Steeda Tri-ax, Bassani X pipe, Recaro seats, and tint. '94 Lightning: White, stock except 50 series Flowmasters '99 GT (wife's): Chrome yellow, stock with some pretty slick "flame" pinstripes!

09-04-2003, 02:49 PM	#3
Hethj7 Mizzou Tigers Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: weston, MO United States Posts: 1,455	I don't see how hot water would freeze faster. If hot and cold water are both placed in a freezer, the heat from both of them needs to be removed in order for freezing to occur. It would seem to me that the cold water already has a head start since some of its heat is not even there to begin with. __________________ 2006 Mustang GT 1990 LX GT-40 motor 262 horsepower, 307ft-lbs (sold but forever loved) 1998 Contour SVT Rice Haters Club Member #244

09-04-2003, 03:05 PM	#4
Maroon 5.0 LX Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Southern Maryland Posts: 471	I have been told hot water will freeze first because there is less oxygen than in cold water. Never did an experiment. __________________ '89 LX 5.0 - 5 speed. Original Owner '94 E-150 4.9 Hi-Top Conversion Van '06 Mustang V-6, 5 speed

09-04-2003, 07:18 PM	#6
Hethj7 Mizzou Tigers Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: weston, MO United States Posts: 1,455	It looks like it can go either way, depending on how much water is allowed to evaporate. Do a quick search on google and all kinds of articles come up. This one seems to most concisely explain it. __________________ 2006 Mustang GT 1990 LX GT-40 motor 262 horsepower, 307ft-lbs (sold but forever loved) 1998 Contour SVT Rice Haters Club Member #244

09-04-2003, 07:24 PM	#7
lx mike Undescribable Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Ft Myers Fla Posts: 1,539	we need to try this out for ourselves. in about 4 months someone that lives in the midwest. sicy? could try this out for us! __________________ Rice Haters Club Member #101

09-04-2003, 01:39 PM	#2
Sicy Stang Sizzlin' Sicilian Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: California Posts: 502	Hmm.. I have no idea LOL. I would think already cold water would freeze faster....

09-05-2003, 12:27 AM	#8
Sicy Stang Sizzlin' Sicilian Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: California Posts: 502	Does it look like I live in the Midwest?? <----------------- Nothing freezes here lol

09-05-2003, 01:33 AM	#9
Fawkes Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Seattle Posts: 11	The theory behind this is that the heat in the water causes the motor in the freezer to start up, causing it to work harder, to produce more cold. Is this trure? I don't know, but it sounds good. __________________ Todd B. 1980 Firebird Esprit 6.6 Liter 1990 Mustang LX 5.0 - It's hers

09-05-2003, 04:44 AM	#10
tireburner163 It's a lot like a race car Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Meridian, MS Posts: 4,130	When a container of water is placed in a freezer, there are many factors which can affect the length of time it will take to freeze, and under the proper combination of circumstances, a given volume of hot water in a container may freeze faster than the same volume of cold water. __________________ 1987 Buick T-type 1998 HD Electra Elide

09-05-2003, 06:46 AM	#12
RBatson Registered Member Join Date: May 1997 Posts: 3,028	Interesting, the first thought that popped in my head is that the cold water would freeze faster because it has a head start. Then I started thinking that the density of the water could make a big difference, cold water is denser than hot water... actually less water to freeze, the cubes of the hot water may be smaller. Does hot water evaporate quicker at colder temps?? Would the same weight of water instead of volume make a difference? I think an experiment is in order, god I love chemistry Couple of things I feel I want to share, the cold water out of the tap is cleaner than the hot water. Don't know why I felt the need to share that.. If you want to make something cold fast, putting it in ice water will make it cold faster than just putting it on ice. The reason for this is that the ice transfers energy the most at its freezing/melting point. You can make a hot beer ice cold in about 10 minutes by submerging it in ice water, something that comes in handy if you're a drinker(like me). This is what I learned in college

09-05-2003, 10:04 AM	#14
Hethj7 Mizzou Tigers Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: weston, MO United States Posts: 1,455	Did no one read that article I linked to earlier? It explains there under what circumstances hot water will freeze faster than cold water. A search on google will give more in depth articles, but the one I linked to covers the bsics pretty well. __________________ 2006 Mustang GT 1990 LX GT-40 motor 262 horsepower, 307ft-lbs (sold but forever loved) 1998 Contour SVT Rice Haters Club Member #244

09-05-2003, 01:59 PM	#16
Sicy Stang Sizzlin' Sicilian Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: California Posts: 502

09-05-2003, 05:35 PM	#17
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	Old hat This has been bounced around since I was in college and I graduated in '67, LOL. It really is an old wive's tale but like many others, it has a grain of truth. If all the conditions are the same, the cooler water will freeze faster every time. If a container of slightly warm water is placed in a freezer, the first thing that happens is a slight melting of the frost coat lining the freezer. This rapidly refreezes making a very good conduction bond to the container of warmer water. A container of cold water wouldn't make that improved conduction bond. Rbatson alluded to this "improved conduction" circumstance in the beer in the refrigerated air vs. beer in the freezing water analagy. The improved conduction to the warmer water container is said to overcome the time difference required to freeze the warmer water and therefore feeze the warmer water first. I've never heard anyone quantify the temperature difference in any argument. Obviously we're not talking about near boiling water versus near freezing water. At any rate, this is how I've heard this postulation explained. Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe Last edited by Rev; 09-05-2003 at 07:26 PM..

09-06-2003, 10:16 PM	#19
Ty'97Cobra Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: NC Posts: 308	cold water freezes first cold water freezes CLEAR... hot water freezes hazy.... try it... __________________ 2003 Cobra Convertible - Dark Shadow Gray #2459 of 5082 Visit my city http://diggstown.myminicity.com/

09-07-2003, 10:01 AM	#20
daveGT Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sarcoxie, MO, USA Posts: 80	Great link, Hethj7!! I posted this after a friend from work swore that is was true, furthermore, he was also told so by a college instructor (?) back in the day, and proceded to conduct his own experiment to confirm the claim. His experiment apparently validated the statement, he claimed. After an informal pole at the office, I found that a solid 50% heard of this and believed it was true, but could not explain why. Then I started thinking about it. Water, like any other liquid has a specific heat. Heating and cooling are reversable, so therefore, based on this logic, cold water will boil faster than warm water. Bla, Bla, Bla, goes my lecture to him, based on my very rusty chemistry and thermodynamics knowledge. Combining my good common sense and somewhat educated/experienced academic and professional experience, I told him he was nuts, and cold water freezes faster than hot water! Come on man! I told him his experiment was flawed, not controlled properly, and he drew the wrong conclusions from the results. He conducted the experiment again, using more controls as we discussed, and indeed, the cold water froze quicker. However, it seems to me that people tend to think that hot water does freeze faster based on personnal real-life experience - except they draw the wrong conclusions. It turns out we were both wrong (him more than me! LOL!), for hot water will freeze quicker if stored in a highly insulated container (wooden bucket, styrofoam), but it does not freeze quicker just because it is hotter. Good replys, guys. __________________ '99 Cobra Red, stock so far, except for Steeda Tri-ax, Bassani X pipe, Recaro seats, and tint. '94 Lightning: White, stock except 50 series Flowmasters '99 GT (wife's): Chrome yellow, stock with some pretty slick "flame" pinstripes!

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