03 Cobra vs. New C5 Vette - You wouldn't believe the result
 

Sunday afternoon I'm cruising up the I-5 in my '03 Cobra. I'm in the fast lane going 75, the top is down, and my wife is riding shotgun. Out of nowhere a white C5 with dealer plates cuts me off, I mean, really close to the bumper of my pony. I'm irritated and move into the carpool lane. The C5 cuts me off once more to get into the carpool lane in front of me. At this point, I'm seriously thinking of my martial arts training and how useful it could be at this point...but instead, I calm down and wait for a break in traffic to lay the hammer down...

Before a break in traffic happens, the Vette cuts over the double yellow lines that separate the carpool lane (highly illegal) and takes off hard...I made a tough decision not to cut over the lines too.

About 15 minutes later, what I saw next surprised even me. It was the same C5, this time in the slow lane going about 50 with its hazards on. As I passed, I noticed it was a couple of kids driving the Vette, which was clearly having engine trouble.

Must admit the temptation was almost overwhelming to pull alongside the Vette, downshift to second, and let go of the clutch. But that would be puting their faces in it, and I'm not a jerk like the two guys in the Vette. I can wait for another day.

Damn, Russ! I was hoping to read about a drag race...oh well! :) Sounds like the kids were complete idiots to say the least.

So how's the new Cobra? Likes/dislikes? Any mods yet?

E

Re: 03 Cobra vs. New C5 Vette - You wouldn't believe the result
 

I would have:D

Track?
 

Have had th '03 to the track yet? If so, how did it do?

Rev

Eric - I really enjoy driving the Cobra. It doesn't have the rip-snorting gut-wrenching sound of a built small block, but the 4.6 with Eaton gets the job done well enough. No mods yet except for the K&N. I'm trying to find upgrades that won't ruin the warranty -- Ford is getting wise to '03 Cobra mods. I've even heard of Ford techs looking at the computers to see if they've been altereted. That said, I'm thinking in terms of a throttle body and intake, which could be replaced easily with little or no trace for warranty work. The Cobra's quiet, almost too quiet.

Akbar - thanks, but I'm from So. CA where people who drive like A55es are often the types that are "packing".

Rev - no track passes because it's a convertible without a 6-point and won't get past tech. Btw, I saw my '65 Stang on Friday and my mechanic friend is almost ready to drop in the the toploader, 9", and breathed-on roller 302. I can't wait...it's been 9 years.

Can't wait to run a blown '03 V8 Cobra against my turbo'd V6 '89 T/A this year. Closest I've come to running anything like that was vs a white late model blown Saleen, which was a DEAD HEAT. I've been hearing '03 Cobras are doing high 12's in the 1/4 which tell me it should be a dead heat too. We'll see....

Blown 4.6 vs. a turboed 3.8?
 

Are we talking about a blown 4.6 V-8 as opposed to a turboed 3.8 V-6?

Rev

I'm no Ford fan so I don't know what's under a Saleen's hood. Whatever it was it had 8 cylinders and a supercharger hooked to it. After our 2 dead heat runs we stopped and BS'd for a bit and both popped our hoods.

20lbs, I think your a little outclassed by the 03 Cobra. Your traping 104. 03 Cobra's are traping in the 110 range.

Outclassed is opinion which I disagree with, however I agree my 1/4 mi. trap speed wouldn't be as high as an 03 Mustang in my current configuration. Same as my car vs. new LS1 F-bodys.

However my advantage in the 1/4 mile is my car's unique ability to get it's *** off the line in a hurry, thus resulting in low ET's and beating my competitor to the finish line, regardless of trap speed. I recently went thru my timeslips from the day of my 12 second pass and was surprised to see the amount of sub 2 second 60' times. A Mustang driver has to be VERY savvy at the green light to get rollin' without blowing the tires out. Fail to cut a great launch and I'm gone, game's over. For me it's real easy. Brake boost to 2200 RPM (my V6's 400ft/lb torque point), green light=GO....adios. :)

I agree if they raced on the street the 03 Cobra would kill him because you never hook that good. At the track, it might be close if the Cobra comes with stock tires. Now that you can get 17" ET Streets, this may change everything. I run 315/35 Nitto D/Rs and have been a best of 11.69 with 7.60 1/8th on a 1.89 60 ft. With ET Streets, I'm sure I could probably run 11.50s still with only 12 psi from a T-76. If the Cobra has tires & a pulley, it won't even be a race.

I launch my car on the street same as I did on the track. Brake boost to 2200 RPM and let'er go. Insta sub 2 second 60' times, seemed easy. In fact I ran 9 or so runs that day at the track and only 2 (maybe 3 but would have check) were over 2 seconds. I smoked the tires pretty good finding the "sweet spot". This is on Firestone Firehawk street radials on stardard pressure, no funny business. Not sure how much difference the 30-40mph headwind down the track made considering my T/A is pretty aerodynamic. But playing with tire pressure and no wind I can only expect those #'s better. I've got photos of the American flag standing straight out from the pole.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Another simple trick to take .2 off the ET for the turbo Buick car is to use a paper clip to jump the ALDL connector and have the torque convertor lock-up automatically after 2nd gear. That's good for an average of .2 and 1-2 mph, if only I had a paper clip and the sense to pull some PSI from the rear tires.

As far as being "killed" I don't think so, too many under estimate the potency of the 'lil Buick V6. I think it'd be real close at the track. Again, it's not about the trap speed, who cares?.... It's about getting to the checkered flag first. We'll find out in the spring and I'll post; win, lose or draw....

Trapspeed is everything from a roll. I have pulled extremely hard from people on the highway when traction is not an issue. I will admit that those TTAs definitely hook at the track. The first car I ever raced on my very first pass was an 89 TTA when I had a V2 S-trim @ 12 psi running street radials. He killed me out of the gate, but I ran him down by the 1/8th and beat him in the 1/4. He ran 13.43 @ 103.8 to my 12.75 @ 112 mph with only a 2.06 60 ft. Basically, if the Cobra owner can drive, he should have no problems winning. I have seen them run 12.60s @ 110-112 in 100+ degree heat at NMRA events by people that can drive.

Yup. Agree 100% which is why I am hesitant to run anyone from a roll. Did a Lightning from a 40 mph roll and had a rough time, he was laughing til we lined up at a light. I DESTROYED him 0-60 so bad he did a quick U-turn and beat feet the opposite direction. Gotta go with your strengths considering what you're working with. I said I wasn't going to do it, but after a few more mods I'll be high 11's low 12's with another $500-$700....gotta love these little V6's.

If i recall, that puts GM's in base timing mode. Why would you want to do that?



Maybe i am wrong, but all TTA's were Turbo'd AND RARE! Why would someone take a potent motor with a turbo and change it to S/C? You sure it wasnt just a T/A with a S/C and a V8? That dude would make more power by keeping the turbo rather than switching. How often do you see these TTA's? No flame, just a question.:cool:

James

Regarding the ALDL short-circuit.... Don't know which contacts off the top of my head to jump, but out of the multiple choice of contacts you cross 2 and it doesn't do anything but lock the torque convertor after 2nd gear resulting less slippage thus allowing the monster torque of the motor to do it's job.

I know the diagram is on http://www.gnttype.org/ The GN and TTA share the same ECM except for the (factory) chip.

I think you misunderstood me. I had the V2 S-trim on my 99 GT when I raced an 89 TTA at a GM vs Ford event on Long Island in Oct.00. I realize they are rare and I haven't seen another one since. My friend videotaped the pass and I would love to put it on the computer. I believe only 1,550 were sold to the public and stock they ran something like just over 16 psi. I also agree about locking the converter in 2nd. My chip locks my PI multi-disc in 2nd and now my car runs 120-121 mph trapspeeds with only 12 psi. With the Protorque locking at the top of 3rd, my car ran 122-123 with 16 psi, but 100-101 mph 1/8th.

Saturday we dyno'd a Turbo Buick GN and it posted some freakin' awsome numbers. The HP was in the 390's and TQ was an earth shattering 455. I've always been a fan of them, and would never talk bad about one, especially if there was one in the general area. :D :rolleyes:

I've seen some dyno numbers for the '03 Cobra, and as impressive as it is, and as much as I want one, the V6 Buick is just plain SICK. Almost makes me want one, ALMOST.

Later.

What kind of numbers are the 03 Cobra's posting?

Yes i did. Sorry. My bad.

Boost, you may want to check on that jumper connection. their is another way around locking the torque convertor up. I think B&M makes a kit for it? Something in those guidelines. I am not sure if they make if for the 200R4, but i know they make it for the 700R4.

Bigwhite is right, i always loved those GN's. Still want one to this day! I am not a diehard fan of Ford like most people on this site. GM built really bad *** cars in the past 20 years and you(Boost) own them.

That car was running more boost than stock. I have seen an 87 GN dyno 1,098 rwhp with a Thumper T-100 , but it was a 130K drag car. I made 388 rwhp & 427 rwtq at Atco at an NMRA event in 95 degree heat with less than 6 psi, stock electronics & fuel system. Turbocharged V8s make some crazy numbers also, but usually with alot less boost. Hell, I'm a big fan of any turbo car.

You better be nice
 

20lbsofboost is your car completely stock except fpr maybe a K&N air filter. I think not! Put 20lbs of boost on the mustang and all you will see is tail lights.:D :D :D

Huh?

Um, my sig has the mods for all my cars which is a whopping 3 on my Pontiac (and no K&N...the airbox is all stock too). This spring I'll at least be mid (if not low) 12's with a few hundred $ and NO NAWZ ;)

Now disbelievers are quick to point out that since I have my boost turned up it's no longer stock. Perhaps, but such a narrow interpretation of "stock" is shallow minded. If you change your battery or tires (which may increase performance) that deviates from a stock package as well. My car came factory original with an adjustable wastegate rod to raise or lower the boost at will, not my fault the engineers were thinking ahead. No different than the factory transmission in these cars. There's a "TV" cable from the throttle body that leads to the tranny. It's made to be adjusted and changes the fluid pressue and shift points. Adjusting this FEATURE doesn't deviate from a stock car. That's the way the car was manufactured, and for a reason. Adhering to the factory adjustments during the life of a car is rediculous.

Dyno numbers are typically 355 - 370 rwhp. (Ford underrated the SAE hp of 390).

Most magazines get a stock '03 Cobra to run high 12s @ 110. MM&FF got theirs to run about 12.4 / 12.5 in stock trim.

That's what is cool about the 03' Cobra's: Very fast off the showroom floor and even faster with some sticky tires, pulley and exhaust. I'm thinking high 11's @ 115+ with these mods. Cool. :cool:

E

Damn! That's a tough act to follow off the showroom floor. What's one costing new?

MSRP on the Cobra coupe is roughly $34,800. The convertible goes for $38,800.

It's a lot for a Mustang, but it's faster and cheaper than a new Vette, and will nip at the heels of a Z06. Mad power can be had through just a pulley, chip and exhaust.

Damn, that's crazy! What's taken so long and what is GM possibly going to do to level the field???

I hope GM does something soon. I'm a big Blue Oval fan, but I firmly believe that competition sharpens the breed.

Let the ponycar wars return!!!

20lbsofboost

My bad...TTA's have some impressive features and power for a V6. I did not know you could turn the turbo up to 20lbs. Did any other GM products have those two features. I'm not trying to flame you, honestly, but I did read about the TTA and there was nothing on adjustable waste gates and gear settings. Is there any web pages that you know of that I can look at to read up on them. One of my favorite cars besides Mustangs is the GTA. Inspite of my attitude I do like all cars that are fast. I even respect imports that are not all show and no go.

Thought id share what i saw an 03 cobra run, i ran him at the track, on stock factory tires it went 12.8 @ 112, his 60' was 2.1, mine a 1.85, i killed him outta the hole of course, he reeled me in after the 1/8th, if he was on the e.t. streets i was....... 12.40's i bet.

Most comprensive site is http://www.89tta.com. I personally can't attest to all the cars coming with the adjustable wastegate since I didn't buy my car new, but guys on my email list who purchased them brand new in 1989 say their's came with them while others did not. We surmise PAS put them on some cars and not others, why?...who knows. These cars have an interesting engineering history. As far as the TV cable you can get tech info on what it does and how it works here: http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/tran...n/tvcable.html

Hope that helps!

On a side note I love this state:

...WINTER STORM WARNING THROUGH EARLY SUNDAY MORNING...

SNOW...HEAVY AT TIMES...WILL CONTINUE ACROSS THE REGION TONIGHT BEFORE TAPERING OFF TO SCATTERED SNOW SHOWERS AFTER 3 AM. THE HEAVIEST SNOW WILL FALL PRIOR TO 2 AM. DURING THIS TIME...SNOWFALL RATES COULD APPROACH ONE TO TWO INCHES PER HOUR. TOTAL ACCUMULATIONS OF 6 TO 10 INCHES CAN BE EXPECTED BY EARLY SUNDAY MORNING. IN ADDITION...NORTHERLY WINDS GUSTING BETWEEN 35 MPH TO 40 MPH WILL CAUSE CONSIDERABLE BLOWING AND DRIFTING SNOW TONIGHT. THE HEAVY SNOWFALL COMBINED WITH THE WIND GUSTS WILL CREATE LOCALIZED NEAR BLIZZARD CONDITIONS AT TIMES.