Is Giggle Juice Fair?
 

What's your guys' take on the use of NOS to boost power/reduce ET's?

To me it almost seems like cheatin. :eek:
__________________
Dean
1989 PAS Turbo T/A #1233
*12.93@104mph 3.8 V-6 / No NOS
1987 Grand National

http://www.krif.com/tta/

http://www.krif.com/tta/TTA/TTA%20Emblem%20Small.jpg

hey anything's legal as long as you don't get caught!! Poor it on, and hide it well I say.

Street?
 

On the street, it's "run what you brung". Anything is fair on the street IMHO.

Rev

Just as fair as your turbo.

Theres no such thing as unfair, BTW, I dont like your choices so Im not votin.

Skyler

Re: N2O
 

You show me a street racing rulebook, and we'll see. Until then, all's fair!:D

Nitrous is only unfair to those that loose to a car that uses it. To me power is power. if you get it froma turbo supercahrger or nitrous or even go all motor its power.

I myself prefer turbochargers to most others and my preference on nitrous is limited....its just not something i will use.

One thing i learned about on my last car....with Turbocahrgers and superchargers there is another great alternative to Nitrous to make more power. Propane injection. Dynamic Racing is the first company to actually off it as a kit for Stealth TT/3000GT VR-4's

It allows you to run more boost without having to run Race gas. and Propanes expansion rate of 270 gas to 1 part liquid means it will last one hell of a long time. Plus you cang et propane at the local grocery store. :D

Anyone that mentions street racing and fair in the same sentence needs to get a clue it is and always has been run what you brung.

If I have slicks and you dont thats your problem.

If I have 8 cylinders to your 4 thats your problem.

I lost to a crx a few months ago, he was spraying nitrous. All I had to say was nice run.

Any of you that share the ricer oipinion that nitrous or any other mod is cheating. Shoot yourself your a loser:o

My cars are factory turbo cars. I don't know of any factory cars that came with Nitrous. That's comparing apples to oranges.

So it's fair to say that turbo's aren't cheating but nitrous is? :rolleyes: Run what you brung, and hope you brung more than me. Cuz if i pulled up beside you at a light and i heard a blowoff valve or a big turbo spooling up you damn well better believe i'm gonna put the jug to ya.

But your car sure didnt come with 20psi from the factory, or that adjutable boost controller that you used to increase your boost. Better quick take em off :).


Nitrous is cheap easy HP, just gotta make sure you tune it right, no reason its cheating.

Skyler

Yea take them off. and just go buy a $6 bleeder valve at wal-mart that does the same thing. :rolleyes:

No, my objection to the turbo vs. nitrous comparison (with respect to my cars) is the fact nitrous oxide is an add on, my cars came factory with a turbocharger. That's an apples to oranges comparison is all.

As far as the boost, my GN is still at factory 15psi. My TTA was upped from 16.5 factory to it's present 20lbs. The adjustable wastegate actuator was factory also.

I suppose my point is that N02 is like strapping 1000 Estes rocket engines on the back of your car and lighting them for a run, then having to go to the hobby shop to get more to make a fast run. Without them you can't make a decent go...

Nitrous engines run just as well without the bottle as they do with. Well most of them anyway. So your saying that nitrous motors can't win without the bottle??? I've got an all motor nova that traps mid 6's in the 1/8th. So your saying that it still won't run because without the bottle it's a pig?

If nitrous engines run just as well without, what's the point of having it?

I'm just N02 challenged and need edumacation.
__________________
Dean
1989 PAS Turbo T/A #1233
*12.93@104mph 3.8 V-6
1987 Grand National

http://www.krif.com/tta/

http://www.krif.com/tta/TTA/TTA1233.GIF

You took that wrong, this is a pointless argument.

Skyler

I'm not arguing with anyone. This is spirited, non-inflamitory, intelligent debate.

I'm just trying to understand "Nitrous engines run just as well without the bottle as they do with. Well most of them anyway."

Personally I think N02 is a flimsy way to make a car "fast". Just my opinion. I don't see any compelling reasons here to feel otherwise....yet.

__________________
Dean
1989 PAS Turbo T/A #1233
*12.93@104mph 3.8 V-6
1987 Grand National

http://www.krif.com/tta/

http://www.krif.com/tta/TTA/TTA1233.GIF

Nos is the poor man's supercharger. Not everyone can afford a $3500 Pro Charger. But a couple hundred for a Nos kit is not out of reach.

The guy that does most of the work on my car specializes in GN's and TTA's so I'm around all different types of thier owners. It's amazing how many of them think a simple uping of the boost or running a downpipe still makes their cars stock. If you mention running nitrous, it's cheating no matter how you slice it.

Now that makes sense. Plus it's the most down to earth and realistic point of view I've read yet. Keep'em coming....
__________________
Dean
1989 PAS Turbo T/A #1233
*12.93@104mph 3.8 V-6
1987 Grand National

http://www.krif.com/tta/

http://www.krif.com/tta/TTA/TTA1233.GIF

Agreed. I've seen many debates about what constitutes a "stock" or "factory" car. My TTA's admittedly not stock (chip, downpipe, no cat, boost to 20lbs, Firestones, that's it) and as mentioned before came from the factory with an adjustable wastegate. My GN on the otherhand is totally original, which I consider stock. That's a topic for another thread.

As far as the Nitrous goes, it still seems weak way to get a good ET.
__________________
Dean
1989 PAS Turbo T/A #1233
*12.93@104mph 3.8 V-6
1987 Grand National

http://www.krif.com/tta/

http://www.krif.com/tta/TTA/TTA1233.GIF

personally, i'd never buy nitrous and don't like the stuff.........

i think it is too much money for what it is (remember, i'm not much of a drag strip guy......more of a drive around cones, thrash through the mountains kinda guy)...........i'd rather spend a few hundred bucks on something that i can enjoy the benefits all the time........like suspension stuff for my veedub, or in my monte, headwork

Why do you care so much, Im not flaming here, but I dont see what your missing?

Some horse power is cheaper than others.

I can make a 12 second stang a lot cheaper than a 12second civic, so is that cheating?


I got a really good deal on my TFS heads, so is that cheating?

You fill your gas tank just like a nitrous tank. Obviously your not into it, so to each his own.

My car goes low 12's on motor and should hit low 11's maybe a high 10 when I ever run it on the juice at the track. I had a guy whineing about my n20 when I beat his 440cube big block, I could care less.

Skyler

I use nitrous becuase it's cheaper than buying a turbo or blower. And because it's effective. I've sent turbo cars and blower cars with their heads between their tails home at the track. So is that cheating because i had nitrous??

**This had to be edited. "Little Trooper" was deemed offensive

Whoa, take it easy **, this isn't personal.

I'll concede it is CHEAP HP. I guess my 'lil V-6 will be happier in the 12's without the laughing gas than in the 11's with it.

Maybe I'll go try the D size Estes rocket engines. Use'em once, toss'em out. :p

This discussion's going nowhere fast.....can someone close it?
__________________
Dean
1989 PAS Turbo T/A #1233
*12.93@104mph 3.8 V-6
1987 Grand National

http://www.krif.com/tta/

http://www.krif.com/tta/TTA/TTA1233.GIF

Did I say it was personal? Did I get mad no? Go call someone else little trooper and pull your head out of your ***, now you did make it personal *******.

Skyler

Oh my, this appears to be getting off topic and someone's getting upset. Is there no sense of humor here? :confused:

I raced a guy with a supercharged Saleen Mustang. We talked after and he was real cool.

I didn't know people were so passionate about their laughing gas. Heck, I was just trying to understand the need or want for the stuff. Nevermind that I asked.

__________________
Dean
1989 PAS Turbo T/A #1233
*12.93@104mph 3.8 V-6
1987 Grand National

http://www.krif.com/tta/

http://www.krif.com/tta/TTA/TTA1233.GIF

Don't talk about the laughing gas..you'll get ***** slapped. :)

Now THAT's a sense of humor! My faith is restored :D

__________________
Dean
1989 PAS Turbo T/A #1233
*12.93@104mph 3.8 V-6
1987 Grand National

http://www.krif.com/tta/

http://www.krif.com/tta/TTA/TTA1233.GIF

For what it's worth for those that don't understand N2O (Nitrous Oxide) it's the same thing as putting a supercharger or turbo on your motor. It's all forced air induction but a different way of doing. More Oxygen into the motor helps more added fuel which in turn increases power. A SC or turbo "blows" the extra O2 where as the N2O "injects" the extra O2. They are all three doing the same thing. Adding extra air (oxygen) to burn more fuel to add more power. Plain and simple. I"ve never understood why some people are against N2O. If they are they should be against supercharging and turbos. It's ALL forced induction. Nitrous is not any more "weak" than a turbo or supercharger. I'm surprised as to how many people do not know this about Nitrous Oxide. Too many just don't understand the stuff.

NO2
 

S/c is there at the throttle 100% of the time...take a nitrous set up against a s/c motor and race for a 100 miles???? Try and find a nitrous station in every town you visit or on atrip..no way jose..

You could build a 300 HP street car with the intention of running a 250 shot at the track. It would be a fun yet managable street car, and it would be a monster at the track

You could build a 550 HP turbo car but I doubt its manners on the street are going to be as good as the 300 HP street car.

A 550 HP naturally aspirated car would be down right dangerous on the street.

There are no rules. Period. There is no way it can be cheating. Nitrous just allows you to burn more gas. The same principle behind superchargers and turbos. Its not rocket fuel.

You are probably just jealous that someone got there hands on some power cheaper and easier than you. You won't run it yourself because you are scared you would blow your motor up cause you know nothing about it.

I'll keep that in mind the next time I race for 100 miles.

Um, no. You are NOT always running in boost. You're not cruising down the highway at 80 mph and running 8 psi the whole time. No boost at all actually. You would have to be on the throttle accelerating to get into the boost. If you can accelerate the whole 100 miles non-stop my hat's off to ya. Just like you're not running the Nitrous the whole time either. Just under acceleration (WOT). BUT I do understand what you are saying about having the boost there at your beck and call any time you want it. Where as you eventually have to refill the N2O tank from time to time. Unless the motor is under load it's not going to be getting boost.

Re: NO2
 

What happens when the blower car tosses it's belt :D ?

i dont understand
 

i really dont understand why you people are arguing about this, everyone agrees that nos is cheap,and i have never heard about it being restricted to anyone, i mean its on the market for everyone to purchase, so if u get out ran by someone with the juice thats your mistake for not having it???? i mean come on if you are worried about getting outran by it then your stupid for not having because its basically the cheapest way to bust some ones azz....no flames intended but dont fukin wine about it when u get ur *** busted because someone else had the common sense to spend 500 bucks and get 100 extra hp...but thats just my opinion:D

peace

no2
 

91gtturbo!.......my entire car shuts down, no power njo nothing....have gone to 8 rib set up (Ford Lightning) no more shredded belts. You guys are exactly right..no boost while crusing,not until I put my foot down a little...but always there, no refills..I was refering to track racing courses that run 100 miles or more..A lot of s/c fords but no no2.:D

You can end it here, you will never convince this thick-headed buick bafoon. Put up or shut up. By the way buick boy, your car has a power adder. A power adder is a turbo, supercharger or nitrous. Regardless if factory or not, if its not naturally aspirated, it has a power adder!! DUH

You talking to me or Chico?
__________________
Dean
1989 PAS Turbo T/A #1233
*12.93@104mph 3.8 V-6
1987 Grand National

http://www.krif.com/tta/

http://www.krif.com/tta/TTA/TTA1233.GIF

giggle juice
 

One last comment then I'm out of here..no one is going to win this so called arguement....if it's legal it's fair...example in lifting competition juiceing is not legal ,yet it is still done..is this fair?

Last question? If you add a cam with more lift and duration..a larger carb. , bigger injectors, ported and polished staage 3 heads...cold air induction,etc., etc.. are these not also pwr. adders.......best of luck to the winner.

Whether or not you add a bigger cam, heads, carb or whatever, it is still NATURALY ASPIRATED. It still draws the air in naturaly-no power adder.

far from the truth.........the beauty about a turbo is that you can turn up/down the boost..........

lets say that i build my ride into a 350 hp 20 psi ride.........if i went driving to work or the store and wanted to conserve fuel, i might turn down the boost to 5 psi, put 135 horses to the ground and get 30 something mpg

Or keep your foot off the gas and it wont matter where your boost is turned too.

Skyler

Thick Headed Buick Bafoon here....

I love this play on words that "power adder" is only a turbo, supercharger or N02. I don't have an automotive slang dictionary but common sense says a "power adder" adds power....no? (I know, tough concept). Simple logic dictates that "power adder" would mean a better cam, heads, exhaust, carb etc. which all add power.

Some here would label me as anti-Mustang or anti-Ford which simply isn't the case. I've never owned a Ford and come from a GM family, not my choice. My turbo Buick cars have beaten Fords (mostly Mustangs), and I've been beaten by some. Ford wouldn't be GM's fiercest competetor if they weren't doing something right. One of my best friends has a kick *** 1970 Mach I. Of course it has a GM color on it! :D He's highly impressed with the performace of the Buick Turbo V-6, and I'm impressed with his 351C.

Back on topic...
I've been into cars for almost 19 years now. To each his own, but NOS isn't for me. Last I knew they didn't use it in NHRA which is the emitome of 1/4 mile racing. Give me true-blue high output engines. Supercharged, turbocharged or naturally aspirated, but hold the laughing gas. That's just me.

I started this thread to share everyone's thoughts on the use of NOS. It wasn't intended, nor warranted to use it for personal attacks, insults and arguments. Arguing and insults serve no purpose. Expressing one's views in a calm, logical but spirited sense serves everyone.

There was a comment about whatever's legal is ok to run. I'm not sure in what context that comment was directed but in this state it's illegal to have a charged Nitrous bottle in the car on public roads. A license is required to transport compressed gasses (don't blame me, it's not my law).

As O'Reilly says "This is the no spin zone".

"Bottles are for babies, real men get blown!"

By the way, what's "put up or shut up" all about?
__________________
Dean
1989 PAS Turbo T/A #1233
*12.93@104mph 3.8 V-6
1987 Grand National

http://www.krif.com/tta/

http://www.krif.com/tta/TTA/TTA1233.GIF

Put up or shut means if you get beat with nitrous dont complain. I personally love the turbo regals. They are my 2nd favorite car of all time. One day i will have one along side my blue oval. If the word power adder was used so loosly as to heads and cam, does a air filter or race gas warrent it to be a power adder? The word power adder to any car enthusiast means-boost or nitrous. Why do we park on a driveway and drive on a parkway?? Just because nitrous is not of your interest, doesnt make it illegal, or unfair. And about having a lisence to have nitrous, well your not supposed to take off the cats on your car either...but most of us do it!!

29lbsboost
 

YOU HANG IN THERE! YOUR ABSOLUTELY CORRECT AND CARRY SOME COMMON SENSE ALONG WITH COMMENTS. wE WOULDN'T BE HERE IF WE DIDN'T ALL ENJOY AND APPRECIATE THE DIALOGUE///YOUR THREAD STARTER WAS A GOOD ONE..STAY IN TOUCH

Naaw, I wouldn't complain. Personally I would consider my competitor's win a cheezy victory. Then, I'd just challenge him to a couple more runs til his bottle's empty at which time he'd refuse to run any more when the playing field's evened up. Which I suppose goes back to my original point. The laughing gas is a shallow way to try to beat a competitor (my minority opinion). How many guys would continue running someone knowing their bottle would be empty in one more run? Or, how many guys would run after their bottle's completely used up?.... Here, let me answer that.....none.

As far as the legality/illegality of the CATCON you're right on the $, it's illegal to tamper with it. It's just that it was mentioned earlier about whether something's legal and fair is all.

Perhaps I'm out of the loop when it comes to hi-po mod vernacular. I find it hard to believe that groups of people are using the word "power adder" for only 3 items that generate more power. I personally won't be using that term in such a narrow sense. To me, a power adder is just what it says it is, a power adder, and that can be a myriad of things. One says to-mato, the other says tom-ato.

Heck, I never claimed since NOS wasn't my thing it was illegal. I said that in this state it's illegal to transport compressed gas (such as NOS) without a license. Just as is tampering with the emission control system. We agree!
__________________
Dean
1989 PAS Turbo T/A #1233
*12.93@104mph 3.8 V-6
1987 Grand National

http://www.krif.com/tta/

http://www.krif.com/tta/TTA/TTA1233.GIF

something tells me you've got your *** handed to you by a nitrous car and now your crying the blues because your $4,000 turbo can't hang with a $815 power adder.

Bzzzzzzzzzt. Wrong Mr. Contestant. The correct response is:
What is a 1988 supercharged 5.0?

$4,000 turbo? huh? My car came with it. Sticker price in 1989 was $32,000. That high cost was due to research & development to squeeze the 3.8 in the F-body + the rarity of the car itself (20th Anniversary T/A + Indy Pace Car at 1550 units made). Price used in mint condition in 2000 with 7,511 miles?.... $16,700

If you recall, a fully loaded Grand National in 1987 was $17,300 sticker (I have one and the sticker). I doubt the turbocharger was 1/4 cost of the entire car.

It's the one and only time a Mustang walked away from my TTA. He was cool as hell and we talked as long as we could at the traffic lights we ran from. He was pleasantly surprised at the performance of my car considering the mods. He himself was a former Turbo T/A owner and knew their potential. It was a 1988 red Mustang, I figured "easy kill". We punched from a slow roll. His aftermarket exhaust was screaming (sounded great), he was banging gears and pulling from me....very impressive. We talked after that 1st run he said his 5.0 was supercharged. Sh1t, had I known that I'd have known better :p. Just for giggles we ran from a dead stop from a light (my car's strong point). I got the jump by 1/2-3/4 of a car, but only for about 100'. That car was eye opening.

There was another time on a cool night around here. Saw a late model white Saleen. I ran this guy twice from a roll and it was a dead heat both times...completely even. We stopped and talked for a while too. He popped his hood and low-and-behold, a supercharger.

Anyway...enough of the bed time stories.....
__________________
Dean
1989 PAS Turbo T/A #1233
*12.93@104mph 3.8 V-6
1987 Grand National

http://www.krif.com/tta/

http://www.krif.com/tta/TTA/TTA1233.GIF

OK, when im done with my motor(hopefully by x-mas) it will be able to produce a 10.5-10.9 timeslip all motor, naturally aspirated-or is that power adder? Maybe a single digit with nitrous. Its funny how someof the rules in some classes say "single power adder only" So what does that mean? Only one alteration?Orone turbo or one blower or one nitrous kit?

giggle juice is illegal on the street
 

yeah nitrous is illegal on the street in most states, but last time i checked so is street racing...or maybe i live in the only state wear street racing is illegal:rolleyes: