Fuel system is to lean

grant66 · 08-30-2002, 08:12 AM

I have a pretty much stock 1989 5.0 LX Converible. Accept for Mac Headers, X-pipe and a Hyper Tech Chip. I am getting 41 and 91 codes when running a KOER test. The car stumbles. The car has a new map sensor, fuel pump, O2 sensors, and EEC IV. My mass air flow seems to pass its test. The fuel pressure under load is 39. Under load for a while and then release indicates 39 and can drop down to 35. What do you guys think?

grant66 · 08-30-2002, 10:22 PM

Please help?

PKRWUD · 08-31-2002, 12:01 AM

How do the plugs look? Have you checked for a vacuum leak?

Take care,
~Chris

grant66 · 08-31-2002, 04:15 AM

I have brand new plugs and cap. Should I get new wires?

PKRWUD · 08-31-2002, 05:47 AM

No. I was asking how the plugs looked to see if they looked like the system was lean. Check for a vacuum leak.

Take care,
~Chris

grant66 · 08-31-2002, 07:57 AM

I am blowing white smoke out of both tail pipes. To check for vacuum do I need to listen for it or buy a gage. I have pulled the vaccum line off the fuel pressure regulator and it seems pretty strong.

bigblockcoupe · 08-31-2002, 08:13 AM

white smoke well either your burning tranny fluid or coolant no vacuum modulator on an aod so i bet it's gonna be coolant pull your plugs to see if any of them are wet or if water comes out and check to see if there is water in your oil also look behind or under the car (whichever the case may be) to see if you have a coolant puddle at the end of the tailpipe i bet you have a blown head gasket(most likely) or possibly a tiny ultra microscopic crack in your #6 intake runner at which time you will pull your heads off and look at the head gaskets and say hmmm they look ok then you disassemble your heads and see nothing so you put it back together and it still does the same thing smoking like a freight train (this happened to me) seriously though i bet it's a head gasket.

PKRWUD · 08-31-2002, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by grant66
I am blowing white smoke out of both tail pipes. To check for vacuum do I need to listen for it or buy a gage. I have pulled the vaccum line off the fuel pressure regulator and it seems pretty strong.

This adds an important twist. Are there any signs of water in the oil? You should perform a compression test.

Take care,
~Chris

grant66 · 08-31-2002, 09:01 AM

I just remembered that I over filled the coolant. Thats why I had white smoke. I just checked my plugs and they are black/grey and kind of charcoled. What vacuum line do I need to test?

PKRWUD · 08-31-2002, 09:07 AM

1) Overfilling the coolant won't produce white smoke from your tailpipes. You should still do a compression test.

2) Your plugs do not exhibit the signs of a lean burning engine.

Take care,
~Chris

grant66 · 09-01-2002, 11:48 AM

I checked the car out when I was driving. There was no white smoke. I still think the car was pushing the extra coolant fluid that I put in to the fill take out. I don't know how to check for vacuum? I will check my compression tomorrow. When I go to the shop. I noticed the other day that my hose leading from the air pump to the x pipe has fallen off. I pluged the mac off road x pipe up with a bolt. I going to run a KOER test again also and get ride smog pump soon. I also need to put new mufflers and tail pipes on the car.

PKRWUD · 09-01-2002, 09:55 PM

Start over again. This goes in too many directions. Reset your ECM by disconnecting the negative battery cable, turning on the headlight switch for 10 minutes, turning it off, and reconnecting the battery cable. Then pull KOEO codes. If you get an 11, then go ahead and pull the KOER codes. If you don't get an 11, then post the codes you do get. ALSO, post a history of what you've done, what you've noticed, and the results of any testing you have done.

Take care,
~Chris

grant66 · 09-02-2002, 04:22 PM

I had the NDS installed on my car so that I have to hit the switch when I want to drive. I couldn't get to the NDS without taking the transmission out of the car. I took the hypertech chip out put the lights on took the positive off the car for over ten minutes. I unplugged the computer also. These are the codes I pulled on the first KOEO test today doing a KOEO test. 67 because I must of not hit the switch correctly, 64, 66, 96, 95. I couldn't run a KOER test because it said I had some hard codes to address. 98 & 66. What do you guys think. I will get the NDS done correctly when I have to take the transmission out to redo the rear main. What avenue to I need to take before that?

PKRWUD · 09-02-2002, 05:10 PM

You need to disconnect the negative battery cable, not the positive, for ten minutes, AND have the headlight switch on during that time, then reattach the cable, and run KOEO. The reason for this is to drain any capacitors in the system. You came up with continuous codes, which means you didn't reset the ECM. Try again.

Take care,
~Chris

grant66 · 09-02-2002, 06:03 PM

Doesn't that do the same thing.

PKRWUD · 09-02-2002, 06:24 PM

No. You have codes present that can only be triggered by having the engine run, and since it hasn't run since the ECM was "reset", the codes didn't clear.

Take care,
~Chris

grant66 · 09-02-2002, 07:55 PM

So I scanned the new codes doing an KOER and they were the codes I came up with before. 41, 91. System is lean on both sides of the exhaust. I did an KOEO test it was 85. Canister perge. I still think our best path of diagonist is the codes that I got before 64, 66, 95 and 96. I have not had a check engine light on since I broke down yesterday. The KOEO codes that I got yesterday were 64, 66, 95 and 96. PKRWUD you know alot more about this than I do. So your advice is much appreciated. I sure appreciate OBD2 now. What do you think about OBD2?

PKRWUD · 09-02-2002, 11:59 PM

You're not following my directions very well. This is going to be my last post if that continues.

YOUR JOB:

Reattach the hose to your exhaust.

Replace your ACT (Air Charge Temp) sensor.

RESET THE ECM EXACTLY LIKE I TOLD YOU TO BEFORE.

Start the engine, and let it idle. Go around the car wiggling the wiring harness going to the fuel pump, and listen for a miss or a stall.

If none, replace your fuel pump relay, and inspect the wires going to it.

Inspect the wiring to the MAF.

If they look good, RESET THE ECM ONE MORE TIME, JUST LIKE I TOLD YOU to, and run KOEO TEST ONLY!!!

If there is ANYTHING other than a passing code, STOP, post your results, and WAIT until you hear from me. DO NOT DO ANOTHER KOER TEST UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, UNLESS IT PASSES KOEO.

grant66 · 09-04-2002, 05:18 PM

Can I run the wiggle test on my OTC Scanner? I just bought a new a new ACT sensor. I bought a new on about a year ago. The orginal one was bent over. I'm sorry I made you so mad earlier.

Conman · 09-04-2002, 07:29 PM

If you follow PKRWUD's directions he will help you out and you will be very happy with solving you problems.

Chris (AKA PKRWUD) is very knowledgable and if you don't help him he can't help you!

Good luck with your problems

Conrad

08-30-2002, 08:12 AM	#1
grant66 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Avon, CO, USA Posts: 63	Fuel system is to lean I have a pretty much stock 1989 5.0 LX Converible. Accept for Mac Headers, X-pipe and a Hyper Tech Chip. I am getting 41 and 91 codes when running a KOER test. The car stumbles. The car has a new map sensor, fuel pump, O2 sensors, and EEC IV. My mass air flow seems to pass its test. The fuel pressure under load is 39. Under load for a while and then release indicates 39 and can drop down to 35. What do you guys think? __________________ If it isn't broke you are not trying.

08-30-2002, 10:22 PM	#2
grant66 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Avon, CO, USA Posts: 63	Any one out there please help? Please help? __________________ If it isn't broke you are not trying.

08-31-2002, 12:01 AM	#3
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	How do the plugs look? Have you checked for a vacuum leak? Take care, ~Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

08-31-2002, 04:15 AM	#4
grant66 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Avon, CO, USA Posts: 63	I have brand new plugs and cap. Should I get new wires? __________________ If it isn't broke you are not trying.

08-31-2002, 05:47 AM	#5
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	No. I was asking how the plugs looked to see if they looked like the system was lean. Check for a vacuum leak. Take care, ~Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

08-31-2002, 07:57 AM	#6
grant66 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Avon, CO, USA Posts: 63	I will chech plugs today. I am blowing white smoke out of both tail pipes. To check for vacuum do I need to listen for it or buy a gage. I have pulled the vaccum line off the fuel pressure regulator and it seems pretty strong. __________________ If it isn't broke you are not trying.

08-31-2002, 08:13 AM	#7
bigblockcoupe Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: broken arrow Posts: 212	white smoke well either your burning tranny fluid or coolant no vacuum modulator on an aod so i bet it's gonna be coolant pull your plugs to see if any of them are wet or if water comes out and check to see if there is water in your oil also look behind or under the car (whichever the case may be) to see if you have a coolant puddle at the end of the tailpipe i bet you have a blown head gasket(most likely) or possibly a tiny ultra microscopic crack in your #6 intake runner at which time you will pull your heads off and look at the head gaskets and say hmmm they look ok then you disassemble your heads and see nothing so you put it back together and it still does the same thing smoking like a freight train (this happened to me) seriously though i bet it's a head gasket. Last edited by bigblockcoupe; 08-31-2002 at 08:59 AM..

08-31-2002, 09:01 AM	#9
grant66 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Avon, CO, USA Posts: 63	I just remembered that I over filled the coolant. Thats why I had white smoke. I just checked my plugs and they are black/grey and kind of charcoled. What vacuum line do I need to test? __________________ If it isn't broke you are not trying.

08-31-2002, 09:07 AM	#10
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	1) Overfilling the coolant won't produce white smoke from your tailpipes. You should still do a compression test. 2) Your plugs do not exhibit the signs of a lean burning engine. Take care, ~Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

09-01-2002, 11:48 AM	#11
grant66 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Avon, CO, USA Posts: 63	No white smoke. I checked the car out when I was driving. There was no white smoke. I still think the car was pushing the extra coolant fluid that I put in to the fill take out. I don't know how to check for vacuum? I will check my compression tomorrow. When I go to the shop. I noticed the other day that my hose leading from the air pump to the x pipe has fallen off. I pluged the mac off road x pipe up with a bolt. I going to run a KOER test again also and get ride smog pump soon. I also need to put new mufflers and tail pipes on the car. __________________ If it isn't broke you are not trying.

09-01-2002, 09:55 PM	#12
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Start over again. This goes in too many directions. Reset your ECM by disconnecting the negative battery cable, turning on the headlight switch for 10 minutes, turning it off, and reconnecting the battery cable. Then pull KOEO codes. If you get an 11, then go ahead and pull the KOER codes. If you don't get an 11, then post the codes you do get. ALSO, post a history of what you've done, what you've noticed, and the results of any testing you have done. Take care, ~Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

09-02-2002, 04:22 PM	#13
grant66 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Avon, CO, USA Posts: 63	Starting over! I had the NDS installed on my car so that I have to hit the switch when I want to drive. I couldn't get to the NDS without taking the transmission out of the car. I took the hypertech chip out put the lights on took the positive off the car for over ten minutes. I unplugged the computer also. These are the codes I pulled on the first KOEO test today doing a KOEO test. 67 because I must of not hit the switch correctly, 64, 66, 96, 95. I couldn't run a KOER test because it said I had some hard codes to address. 98 & 66. What do you guys think. I will get the NDS done correctly when I have to take the transmission out to redo the rear main. What avenue to I need to take before that? __________________ If it isn't broke you are not trying.

09-02-2002, 05:10 PM	#14
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	You need to disconnect the negative battery cable, not the positive, for ten minutes, AND have the headlight switch on during that time, then reattach the cable, and run KOEO. The reason for this is to drain any capacitors in the system. You came up with continuous codes, which means you didn't reset the ECM. Try again. Take care, ~Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

09-02-2002, 06:03 PM	#15
grant66 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Avon, CO, USA Posts: 63	I disconnected the ECM Doesn't that do the same thing. __________________ If it isn't broke you are not trying.

09-02-2002, 06:24 PM	#16
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	No. You have codes present that can only be triggered by having the engine run, and since it hasn't run since the ECM was "reset", the codes didn't clear. Take care, ~Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

09-02-2002, 07:55 PM	#17
grant66 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Avon, CO, USA Posts: 63	I cleared the codes like you asked. So I scanned the new codes doing an KOER and they were the codes I came up with before. 41, 91. System is lean on both sides of the exhaust. I did an KOEO test it was 85. Canister perge. I still think our best path of diagonist is the codes that I got before 64, 66, 95 and 96. I have not had a check engine light on since I broke down yesterday. The KOEO codes that I got yesterday were 64, 66, 95 and 96. PKRWUD you know alot more about this than I do. So your advice is much appreciated. I sure appreciate OBD2 now. What do you think about OBD2? __________________ If it isn't broke you are not trying.

09-02-2002, 11:59 PM	#18
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	You're not following my directions very well. This is going to be my last post if that continues. YOUR JOB: Reattach the hose to your exhaust. Replace your ACT (Air Charge Temp) sensor. RESET THE ECM EXACTLY LIKE I TOLD YOU TO BEFORE. Start the engine, and let it idle. Go around the car wiggling the wiring harness going to the fuel pump, and listen for a miss or a stall. If none, replace your fuel pump relay, and inspect the wires going to it. Inspect the wiring to the MAF. If they look good, RESET THE ECM ONE MORE TIME, JUST LIKE I TOLD YOU to, and run KOEO TEST ONLY!!! If there is ANYTHING other than a passing code, STOP, post your results, and WAIT until you hear from me. DO NOT DO ANOTHER KOER TEST UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, UNLESS IT PASSES KOEO. __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

09-04-2002, 05:18 PM	#19
grant66 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Avon, CO, USA Posts: 63	Wiggle test Can I run the wiggle test on my OTC Scanner? I just bought a new a new ACT sensor. I bought a new on about a year ago. The orginal one was bent over. I'm sorry I made you so mad earlier. __________________ If it isn't broke you are not trying.

09-04-2002, 07:29 PM	#20
Conman Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Kingston, Ontario Posts: 351	listen up man If you follow PKRWUD's directions he will help you out and you will be very happy with solving you problems. Chris (AKA PKRWUD) is very knowledgable and if you don't help him he can't help you! Good luck with your problems Conrad __________________ '88 lx, Black on Black, check it out here Spent all my money on school, what a dumb mistake I'm old enough to know better, but still too young to care.

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