I just dont see it, Maybe GM shipped all its TURD LS-1's to Fayetteville or something.

One thing, most of the guys running LS-1's at the strip are on the average, 18 years old. But there are a few that are older, they seem to run slightly faster but only by a tenth or two.

Also I thought F-Bodys had a 5 link suspension. I only count 4 links. Where is this MISSING LINK.

I agree with Dustin. The track is a whole different world than the street Most of the 13 second stocker LS1's you see are driven by kids and are just "filler" and don't get anyone too excited.


Kinda like the billions of loud "Flowmasters and gears" 14 second Mustangs we are also all now accustomed to seeing. But everone has to start somewhere.

Another local guy (Y2K Hawk on www.camaroz28.com) makes 580 rwhp with a stock LS1 and a couple hairdriers from Incon!

i would love to have those "haiirdriers from incon"!!! :D

i have seen when i lived in Indiana a 98 Z28 run 13.3s @ 109 with a id and shifter. Now that i live in Palm Beach FL i see many more LS1s. SOme i see run 14.0s @ 100. Other with more bolt ons run low 13s. these are powerful cars, and at the same time i feel, from what i have seen at the track, that people have to really abuse the car to get those times. LS1 guys, if i'm mistaken about that let me know.

I like these cars and was looking to buy one until i started talking to guys at the track about them. One guy i have talked to quite a bit has a Formula with less than 30K on it. it has a headers, off-road y pipe and cat back, plus a lid. before he put 100 shot on it the car has went through THREE rear ends. These cars are powerful, on the other hand there seems to be some quality issues when it comes to taking them to the track a lot. The clutches like to fade out also at the track from what the LS1 owners were saying. since i like to go to the track weekly, these conversations with the ls1 owners really turned me off.

I have been the the track quite frequently, and I see the LS1's not going fast because of traction.

The fastest LS1 driver last time I was there told me that he couldnt launch over 3000rpm cuz either the tires would spin or the clutch would smoke.

he was running 13.1@108 with 2-3 boltons

the rest were all in the 13's, mostly mid 13's a couple verts high 13's.


Skyler

The durability issues with LS1's are the crappy 10 bolt, the clutch, and pushrods that love to bend.

The one thing I do love about my Mustang is the cheap cost to fix and mod. A good clutch alone for an LS1 is like 700 bucks. Around 1200-1300.oo after you pay the shop to do it.

Like anything, If you race it, you WILL break it.

Exgmguy makes a very good point, never underestimate your opponent. I am in San antonio and I see them run at River City alot. I too was in doubt of their potential since they seem to just run13.5-14.0 @100-106mph from stock to lightly modded (exhaust, lid etc). Actually a very good friend of mine with a 99 ram air firebird ran a 13.2@108 with all the free mods, longtubes, 4.10 gears and all the bolt ons you can think of. So I assumed this was all internet talk I was hearing about esp on LS1.com
Well I went to a rinky dink track (Alamo dragway) just a few miles down the street and the first LS1 (2001) I saw run, with paper tags and all else stock too, pulled a 13.5@107mph!!! The next guy (whose car looked like Gonzo's TA, white with blue strips) with just bolt ons as well pulled a 12.9@111mph all on street tires. So the morale is the track elavation makes a difference too.
Soon I saw more of them running 106-108mph traps at houston stock. And yes I have personally seen one with just bolt ons run 11.6@114mph and there is a video I have on my hard drive where a guy with a 6sp run 11.9@114mph with just bolt ons on drag radials. So they can run, u just have to drive the piss out of them.

Oh yea if I told U I have a 347 with bolt on TFS heads, stg one cam and track heat intake on my car ran a 12.00 @ 113mph, it will be believable. Well guess what guys, stock LS1 heads flow almost approx. the same as the out of the box TFS, and their stock intake flows better than the TFS one, but the cam is smaller (of course!!).

I love the stang but give respect where its due and the LS1s do run even though I love pulling them though :D:D

A well known point!
 

Yes, its a well known point that GM heads flow a hell of a lot better than Ford heads.

When it comes to small block Fords, the Absolute hold back on perfromance is they Cylinder heads. Stock Ford small block heads suck. Thank god theres and wide selection of aftermarket heads out there for us.

The news about the heads is nothing new or surprising.

I don't think small block Ford heads suck. I think Ford just matched their combos quite well. A car with 225hp was setup for 225hp, not 300hp with a mismatched cam.

It would be nice if it was and all you had to do was slap a cam on a 5.0 and pick up 50hp, but just not the way they were built. Except for the 5.0 Cobra's. That was pretty restricted setup, hehe.

Since everyone is throwing in their 2 cents so will I. There are just as many 13 second stock mustangs as 12 second stock LS1s. I attend about 30-35 test and tunes a year so I see them first hand not word of mouth. For every 8 LS1s at the track only one will have a decent driver but fact is they are very fast cars in stock form. One example comes to mind, a guy from Lauderdale that bought a WS6 two months ago put on a lid, cutouts, longtubes, adjustable shocks, lowering springs and nittos and went 12.49 @ 111 NA. Then turned on his 125 shot on the last pass and went 11.87 @ 120 with poor traction. The car only has a few thousand miles and will get quicker with more breakin.

The transmissions in these cars auto or manual are very strong unfortunately the rears and clutches aren't. Most of the serious guys have either broken rear ends or smoked their clutches. A good rear end swap for those cars is in the $2500 range so they just fix them and live with street tires or nittos. I usually race against a group of 8 or 9 LS1 guys in the pro tree lanes they have the basic bolt-ons and only about 2 of them will I even be close with and that is usually due to a good light against them. But generally speaking I rarely win even with my 12 second passes. If I went over to the sportsman lanes I would clean house against the average to below average LS1 driver but I don't feel like sitting in line with the ricers and listening to arguements about whos car has more power per litre.

Bill

they vary alot in times here too... you cant slip the clutch on them off the line or it will fry.. thats why most of them are getting 2.3-2.4+ 60 ft's on street tires... they take alot more work to launch than a stang... and I've also seen a bone stock LS-1 put down 320HP to the wheels..
say what you want, they are still faster bone stock than any bone stock mustang... hell, my brothers stock LT-1 went 13.90 @103 on a 2.4 60ft with 80k miles, no gears, no Dr's.. not even a K&N... I have yet to see a mustang run 13's stock...without gears, Dr's etc...

True, for the most part, but darkknight, my coupe had a 5spd, 3.27grs, electric fan, and coldair induction, all catcvters, 225/60 tires, went 13.91 @ 98 mph, with a 2.0 60', yea thats not stock, but big deal, the fan?? with e.t. streets id click off a 13.70 most likely. oh yea, i removed the front swaybar, wich gave me a little better 60 ft.

Re: A well known point!
 

So why are u surprised they can kick your ***. (ok sorry low blow :D )

Excellent point

Kponti.....Surprised when what kicks my A$$
 

KPonti. (Which I assume stands for Killer Pontiac...Or something Pontiac. Could be wrong.)

When I built my 289, I didnt leave the stock 289 heads with there stock flow numbers, I did alittle porting here and there. She's taken out LT-1's before. But not quick enough for the LS-1's. Well not yet.

I've never raced a SS in my 2000 GT yet, dont really plan on it till I get my gears, and am alittle more comfortable with my launching ability.

One of my friends that posts here, Tim C, has wittnessed first hand that a 99+ GT, can take on a LS-1 powered F-body. Hell, he has the same mods as me except he has 4:10's in his car, and hes beaten a Moddified LS-1 FireBird infront of a butt load of us.

As for the Stock small block Ford heads, Unit made a very good point, one that I obviuosly didnt consider before posting. I ment that once you start changing simple things like Intakes and Cams, the heads are holding you back.

Actually, I retract that statement. Consider the power gained using stock cam and intake but changing to a set of Good aftermarket heads on a small block Ford. Kinda makes you wonder.

Pardon me if my post isnt written to well, I've had a few beers, and havent eaten since 2:00 (Its now 12 hours later.) :D Feeling kinda good at the moment..

I really should get my old SD car to the track sometime. Just spend the $100-$200 it would cost me to run it, cause I know I can pull a 13 out of it. It's no faster than it was stock with 160k and a Z spec pushing the 2.73's in the back.

All I have is a Gtech time of 14.19@103.8. The car wasn't setup to really run, had it been I would have gotten a high 13. The mph is generally 3-4 high on the Gtech.

As far as dyno numbers. I don't trust them. There are too many shops out there skewing the information to trust the numbers are accurate. There is no way in hell a stock LS1 will truely put down 320RWHP. :rolleyes: If it could, it's trap would be in excess of 110mph. It should also be running mid 12's if not better.

Re: Kponti.....Surprised when what kicks my A$$
 

No prob man. Have fun, in 2 weeks after finals is over I will be doing the saaaaaame **** :D:D:D:D

My friends's 00 WS6 runs 12.85 with minor bolt ons. His is a 3.23 Auto to.

The factory freaks are out there.

Just think if he put 3.73's or 4.10's in his T/A

I have personally witnessed bone stock LS1's dynoing 316+ rwhp. they were 6 speeds, but I have also seen stock auto's bumping 310 stock. my '99 automatic SS dynoed 306.6 with only a lid and I dynoed it at a Mustang shop! ;) I also have seen stock LS1's dip in the 12's with excellent drivers. my '99 clicked off 87.20 in the 1/8th mile and that was my 1st and only pass so far on this car so far! I feel that it has a high 12 in it since my 1/8th mile time was a 8.71@87.20 with a crappy 2.196 60ft time, it should have 1.9's in it with traction. don't get me wrong though I like Mustangs, I have a lot of friends who have them and have been around them for many years and know that they can be made to run. to me Mustangs are friendly competition, ricers however are not!:mad:

My friend has an auto trans 2001 WS6 trans am with gears, headers, Y-PIPE and better converter. It ran a 12.71 @ 108 on drag radials. I was on slicks and he was right there with me the whole way down the 1/4. Kinda makes me sick. Then again I didnt pay over 20 grand for my car either. :D