new times, not too good
 

Hey everyone!
Got to the track a week ago for test & tune night, got the C&L & A9L in there, 15 deg timing,seems to be running fine, no hesitations, etc. Iced it down & in 4 tries could only get a 14.133 at 99.53MPH, 2.188 60' time. A guy there told me too much spin off the line(still have street radials)& too much spin in 2nd gear, so I should try to launch at idle next time & 'short-shift' 1st gear to get rid of 2nd gear spinning. I hear tons of people say I can do much better with this setup & then some say that is all a 108K mile 5.0 can do(I know better from reading sigs in this forum). I have issues in launching still & I think that's where I lose a couple/few tenths in ET. I'll keep trying & let you know what happens! Later!

p.s. anyone want to donte some Nittos DR's to the cause?? mccrearys??(lx mike!)

Did you pick up any from your previous times?? As for the tire donation i might have to ride up there sometime and see whats the story with your driving! :p What night do there run test and tune??

Thats not bad, im usually in the 14.0 area with a 2.0 60' on street tires, on a shorter 25 inch e.t. street with a 5k launch and 1.8 60' i went 13.57 @ 99, so i assume you could do the same, i been around the 97 mph range lately (been hot here) but at the track its all about sticky tires, no radials can hold the stock power of a 5.0, i have sportsman pros and smoke through 1st with just a light launch. nittos might give you the extra hook though, dunno never used them.

I spun through 1st with the nitto's when my car was stock and now it spins through 1st part of 2nd and chirps 3rd.

I have to launch at an idle....2.0 60ft's is all I have been able to get with the nittos.

The only time I ran slicks at the track I got a 1.7 60ft witha 3000 rpm launch.

My point.........If you wanna go fast get slicks!

Later,

I went from a 14.18 to a 14.13 with my A9L & C&L. my 60' time went from a 2.157 to a 2.188, so it got worse(due to my driving).
I think my recent mods made it better, I just need to drive better. My tires suck, yes, and guys around her can get 1.7-1.8 60' times on nittos on their 5.0's, so I will lokk for some great improvement with those.
Mike, I go to Fri night test & tunes, will stop by this Fri on the way to FFW in Gainseville Fri-Sun(just to watch). If you can make the drive to Orlando Speedworld for a Fri test & tune, lets meet up & I'll let you take the Cobra for a spin(see how easy it isn't to hook up!)
Dark & CCoupe, thanks for the posts. Tires are definately my next mod, but I will stick with street tires(Dr's) as I want my car to run all the time in true street trim.
Later!

I'd expect a lot more trap speed out of the Cobra. You have the same mods most people would make to pull themselves down close to the 12's. I don't really know what's up? Is it not pulling up top?

UNIT: I'm not sure about my top end...I do have the stock tach so I really dont know if I'm shifting when I should, etc. I shift at 5500-5600 RPms still feel like its pulling at the time. My whole best run is as follows: .830 r/t, 2.188 60', 6.016 330', 9.170 1/8 @ 79.17MPH, 11.859 1000', 14.133 1/4 at 99.53MPH. Again, I'll try an easier(less spinning launch with no bog) to see if I can drop those times in the 1/4. As far as trap speed goes, dont know what's up there(I haven't been able to hit 100 yet). I did have a valve spring bust at about 50K miles, replaced under an extended warranty by Ford, but for some reason I feel that has something to do with my bad times. Guess I could get a dyno test to see? Any suggestions would be great.

UNIT: I'm not sure about my top end...I do have the stock tach so I really dont know if I'm shifting when I should, etc. I shift at 5500-5600 RPMs & it still feels like its pulling at the time. My whole best run is as follows: .830 r/t, 2.188 60', 6.016 330', 9.170 1/8 @ 79.17MPH, 11.859 1000', 14.133 1/4 at 99.53MPH. Again, I'll try an easier(less spinning launch with no bog) to see if I can drop those times in the 1/4. As far as trap speed goes, dont know what's up there(I haven't been able to hit 100 yet). I did have a valve spring bust at about 50K miles, replaced under an extended warranty by Ford, but for some reason I feel that has something to do with my bad times. Guess I could get a dyno test to see? Any suggestions would be great.
Thanks! Later!

wish i knew too! our cars are alike in many ways only difference is that i have 3.73's and you have 3.55's and also the cobra has a 70 mm t.b?? also the gt-40 heads. the factory tach is known for being off especially during quick acceleration so who knows what rpm's your realy shifting at. What tires are you running??

I'm running Falken ZR 245/45 17's ont he stock rims. My local mechanic guy here today said my treadwear rating of 340 shows that these tires WONT hook up, & said I was good to get 1.57 best 60' time so far....BTW, email on it's way to ya!
Later!

Your trap seems almost right. Maybe its a tad slow, but who knows. With my '86 with th old set up(before intake, AFPR, 255, etc,...) i ran the same 1/8 times but you seem to pull harder on the top end than my '86. Keep praticing man. I would love to meet up with ya sometime. I am in palm beach though.

Just keep having fun with that car. Since it has the 17s, you might consider the BFG 275 tire. I like those.

Oh yeah, a fox that should be making 300hp+ should trap better than 100mph my friend.

The combo as it really is

Underdrive pullies
Cold air induction
C&L 76mm MAF
65mm T/B
Cobra Intake
24lb/hr injectors
GT-40 Iron Heads
Off road H-pipe
A9L Processor
3.55 gears

Remember, it's not a 5.0HO, She's got a Cobra mill in there. That combo should be making a solid 300hp. With that kind of power trap speed should be a lot closer to 104mph+. There are stock fox's with 5.0HO mills trapping near 100mph as your weak headed 86GT demonstrates.

VenumusFirst off, you need a dyno tune. I've seen results posted where people have picked up 30rwhp with a tune. Also, you need an aftermarket tach. Some tachs are off by as much as 800rpm. You could be shifting at 4800rpm and not even knowing it.

Unit - I thought 93 Cobra's were rated at 235 or was it 245 HP? Either way, how does a CAI, C&L meter, Pulleys and an H-pipe give 65 or 55 HP? That seems like a bit much to me.

Venumus - for what it's worth, the couple 93 Cobra's that I've seen run at my local track were running close to what you were running (ET wise). I know that one of the Cobra's had gears (3.73's I think) and complete exhaust was running high 13's with traps a tad north of 100 mph. So, with street tires and pulling 2.18 60's that not too bad. Drag radials will definitely help you get into the 13's.

Good luck,
E

Unit there is no way that car makes 300hp, I bet that your friends have a E303 cam in there combo, which makes a huge difference.

Venoumous put a E303 in that car and you will pick up around 3mph in you traps I had a very very similar setup 3.55's the whole bit except I had a electric fan, E303 (stock rocker arms), headers, and in a light LX coupe. On BFG 255/50/16 dr's I went 13.2@105.5.

Good luck

I agree, but with just a E cam that car is gonna be fast. As for now your times are probably about right, except try to hook, I reccommend BFG DR's I have had both BFG's and Nitto's and my third set was BFG's if that tells you anything.

The E303 cam Cobra crate engine was rated at 320hp, if memory serves me correctly, and this engine has other mods done to it. The E cam and the combo listed should produce a 330-340hp combo that'll run down LS-1's.

302 LX Eric, I stand corrected. The Cobra intake, GT-40 heads, 24lb injectors, 70mm MAF, 65mm T/B underdrive crank pulley was only worth 10hp over a stock 5.0HO. LS1's only make 305hp. That's where they are rated at.

The stock Cobra's dyno near 260hp at the crank. A full bassani long tube setup had Saleen GTS dynoing at 265rwhp on an otherwise stock 93 Cobra. The exhaust is restrictive, the computer sucks, and the MAF isn't a whole lot better than the stock 55mm piece.

If you guys don't know, you don't know.

Hey Dudes!

I'm gonna try better drivng a bit at the track for now, & then see if there's a place locally to dyno my car & see what's up.
I am torn between the BFG's & the Nittos. I went for a ride in my mechanic's '99 Lioghtnign trucjk which runs 11.9's on a 175hp NOS shot & Nitto's. Man, what a rush it is in a 11.9 vehicle!!! WOW! Than 5K lb truck pulled so hard my neck still hurts! I will meet up with Lx mike msometimne soon & we'll have some fun at the track & see what's up.

UNIT: Thanks agian for the replys. I will try to get a dyno soon to see whats really there & let everyone know. Wish you were around here to come have some fun at orlando speedowrls!

EZRIDIN: Palm aBeach is just down I95 from me. In fact, I have an old college buddy who is a cop in Coral Springs so I can get ther noprob & spend a weekend there & we can get to the track at Moroso or wherever is close to you!

sedanman: thanks for the note. I will be torn between the b & e cams so your input does matter! Hope to have one installed by the end of the summer! Will let you know...

Take it easy & thanks all for the replys!
Later!

So Venomous do U think the A9L and meter swap netted U much if any?? I expected to see your trap speeds go up no matter what your 60foot times were. If U had a valve spring break the next two mods I would do to your car would be the E cam and a good set of valve springs! When I changed to my E-cam my car had and still has just over 17,000 miles, I talked to numerous people and they said that I should change my springs even with the low mileage. Do the cam and spring swap and U will be on your way. Besides your average bolt ons only difference in our cars is my E-cam and valve springs, my car shouldnt be 8mph faster than yours, U have weak valve springs I am thinking and that is holding u back right now, heck if U R gonna change the springs though U might as well put a descent cam in the car! Dont worry U will get there! Later!

Thats cool man. I go every friday night. It would be great to have u here. Your cobra is really nice from what you say so i hoep to see it.

First I assume you are talking crank horse power :confused: I didn't know anyone even talked about crank hp on a modded car these days. I expect someone talking from proven hp numbers to talk about it in RWHP. Unless you know guys who pull their motor for dyno tunning? That being said there is no way that combo would make 330-340rwhp, I know I ACTUALLY had that combo and am not talking about a friend of a friend of a friend of a freind.

Well they put a smaller cam in the cobra than they did in the 5.0 HO they also put a crappy computer, hence the only 10 hp gain.

:rolleyes: I have seen several make 305 at the tires :eek: please speak from the real world (like actually seeing the car on the dyno) and not out of your ***.

I beleive it is YOU who does not know, your post usually define stupidity and everyone who is reading this is dumber having read your post, I rest my case and may god have mercy on your soul.

venemus93 - Hit the dyno if you can. I think everyone would be very interested in your RWHP numbers, both before and after 'tweaking' it.

Good luck,
E

You're shifting too early. When I dyno'd my car the factory tach was off by almost 1,000 RPMs at the 6k mark. You'll need to play with your shift points to find the best ones, but don't be afraid to take that thing into the red-zone if you're looking at the factory tach. Next time at the track, do a run when you shift at 6k. Then on the next run shift at 6200.... etc, etc.

The iron-headed GT-40 crate 302s were rated at 280hp.

The aluminum-headed GT-40 crate 302s were rated at 320hp.

Ford under-rated the Cobra from the factory with the 235hp or 245hp #.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by trey193


Trey...gave you ever run Sedanman. i remember him tellingme about a 93 Cobra he ran that runs high 12s at the track.

Thanks all for the replys & please lets not make this a 'who-knows-what-&-who doesnt-know-what' thread now.....give it a rest, kids!

EZ: I'll let you know when I'm heading down that way. Fortunately or unfortunately, there aren't too many original looking 93 Cobras at the track, so it will be easy to find me when I get down there...but I'll let you know when I'm coming down!

Eric: I'll hit a dyno when I find one around here....just can't do it anytime soon due to $$$ & no time!

89 Cobra: Thanks for the shifting ideas! My buddy ran it for the last run at the track 2 weeks ago with me watching....he spun really bad out of the hole(2.67 60' time!), lit the tires in 2nd, then revved very high(he didnt look at the tach, just shifted by feel of the car pulling) then chirped 3rd! I have never chirped 3rd on dry pavment or at the track. Sounded nice. he still ran a 14.7 at 98.58mph.

trey: my numbers from the track dont show much improvement, but it does feel very strong on the road. I wonder a little bit about the mass air electronics that I got from my local mechanic, as it took away my hesitation problem, but I think he said it came off a '96 Stang??? I will try to find one off a '91 5.0 to make sure it's matched up with the A9L properly. I guess the dyno will show how the power is looking as well. only prob with the cam swap is tons of labor cost tring to get the a/c condensor out of the way, but I will definately do the springs at the same time to make sure all is well in there! will keep you all posted. thanks for all the good luck wishes!
Later!

Venumus93------I hope you can make it sometime. I love the 93 Cobras. You would have a good time here i think. Let me know when you would be able to do it.

Maybe i could also come up there and run also.

I'm going to be meeting up with him in about a month or so. we'll let you know when and maybe you can make it there and we can get together.


I wasn't thinking about the factory tach being off. need to get an aftermarket one or try shifting higher on the stock one.

That would be fun. Let me know.

Sedanman, get a clue. I was addressing 302 LX Eric's post trying to say that rated hp was accurate. Anybody who keeps up on the competition even remotely knows the LS1 dyno's at least 280rwhp which equals about 340hp at the crank. I like to use crank numbers because they are unaffected by drivetrain issues. If you put an aluminum driveshaft on a car, you're gonna pick up a rwhp or two. Less rotational mass, more efficient driveline, and that equals more hp at the wheels.

Yep, the Cobra computer stinks. The cam isn't any weaker than the stock HO cam when the 1.7's are added into the equation.

HO cam with 1.6's. .444"/.444" 266*/266* or 266*/276*
Cobra cam with 1.7's. .479"/.479" 270*/270*

Granted, the Cobra cam has less overlap, but the duration is very comparable, and the lift is comparable to a B303. The Cobra cam would be a good cam in it's setup for the HO engine, but with the much better flowing GT-40 Irons, and Cobra intake, it just doesn't have the higher rpm pull with an LSA so wide. It's not like the cam is a total POS.

http://fordfan.com/gallery/chrisw.htm

http://www.svtmustangcobra.com/news/ddviii.htm

http://chris.kellnet.com/chambers/shift_points.htm

All I had to do was type some parameters into google, and stuff like this started popping up. An LX vert running 12.7@107 with nearly the same setup as Venumus. 280rwhp from a common bolt on, stock headed 93 Cobra (equals 340hp) and Jeff Chamber's was making 325rwhp with the stock GT-40 iron heads, E cam, and GT-40 intake in trophy stock trim. The first run was about 280rwhp as well. Those are dyno charts. I'm not BSing anybody, and I don't care if your combo wouldn't run, Sedanman. If you knew how to tune your car, it would have unless something was wrong with it.

As far as the springs being weak, the GT-40 iron equipped Cobra heads also came with stronger, higher lift GT-40 valvespring setups. After 100k, it certainly could be weak. As for the recommendation of the B303, there are certainly reasons for it. With 1.7:1 rockers, it has a reputation for performing well. The 1.7's on the E cam make lift a little high. About .530.

I must admit, I hadn't seen the ratings on the iron crate motor in a long time. It's newer GT-40P counterpart dyno's about where I quoted, and the Cobra head isn't weaker by 60hp.

:rolleyes:

But who has the ability to measure the hp at the crank, its something you have to live with.

Still quite a bit smaller than the E cam.

Where ATCO or a G-Tech?

Right and those trophy stock cars are stock right :rolleyes: Tell me you are not THAT dumb!

Right this from a guy with a stock motor that admits to having not tuned it in 30K miles. My stang traped 105.5 with stock (not roller) 1.6 rockers. On a 156K short block with only 3.55 gears so not tuned my ***.

I would not reccomend 1.7 rockers to anyone let alone a car with a aftermarket cam, I would recommend switching to a E cam and trading or selling your 1.7's for a set of 1.6's. The simple fact that you will get a better valve train geometry makes the switch worth it by it self.

So you trapped better than 105mph, and your combo was nowhere near 340hp. :rolleyes: Sounds like it was at 300+ pretty easy to me. LS1 trap speeds on a car with no aerodynamics. Do you understand that it takes a lot of horsepower to put a fox above 105mph? Skyler traps 107 with TFS TW heads, E cam, and an Edelbrock intake. We'll see how much faster he is with ported headers and a holley. The setup he's running is good for 360hp or so, tuned, at this point. Since you can't convert, I'll put that into RWHP numbers for you. 300rwhp or so. I expect he'll pull a 110 all motor pass.

As far as the trophy stock cars, the 280rwhp run wasn't all crazy. The 325rwhp run was in trophy stock trim. The links are posted, dumbass. Take a look at them if you can figure out how to click on the bright green text. There are dyno runs connected. Course, numbers and **** mean nothing. All they are is fuel for idiots like you who see 30 mismatched combos run down the track, and decide you know about engines because of it. Go get an LS1, get rid of the stang and blow a load into the tailpipes before you go to bed every night. You'll be much happier thinking you have a better car.

The "get a clue" was aimed at your readiness to jump me any chance your dim wittedness has. You're about the sorriest SOB on this board. Yep, my 87 was out of tune, which therefore means, it was out of tune. Still trapped 100mph, even by relatively conservative estimates.

To me, just sounds like you need a serious *** kickin. Somebody to beat the ******* hell out of you. Put you in a hospital for a few weeks like my little niece has had to endure, only you're the one who deserves the stay. She's never done anything to anybody, but it's assholes like you who keep running their mouth. That way you'll have time to contemplate how friggen stupid you are.

No I did not have 300+hp my combo now only has 290 and it gives me 107.5 and that was with a missed third gear.

I don't understand that it takes a lot of hp to put a fox over 105 since my fox only traps 107.5 now (or then since I have done more mods) :rolleyes:

I expect I will pull a 110 mph pass all motor very very soon.

Thats not what I said, trophy stock is allowed (if its the same as factory stock) to change compression ratio's and other changes, like balance rotating assembleys (and porting).

First I see a lot of matched combo's too.

The reason I think I know about motors is because:

A. I have had three different heads/cam combos on my stang
B. I went to school to be a mechanic
C. I go to purdue for mechanical enginnering
D. I am a engineer at Honda Engine Plant when school is not in session.

Thats why I think I know a little about motors

Nope, I love my stang way to much to do that. And I can't wait to bust ezridn's ***.

Yeah, because I tell it how it is I am stupid.

Right troll rule 101 if you can't out smart them threaten them with personal violence.

Well, at least your schooling for engineering is why you're so arrogant.

290rwhp? I'm talking crank hp here pal. Not rwhp. 290crank hp is only about 240rwhp. That's not a whole lot more than a stock 93 Cobra dyno's at. 25rwhp less than Saleen GTS's 93 Cobra dynoed at with just a full bassani exhaust.

Anyway, I apologize for the physical threats. My little niece is in the hosptial, again. This time only for a few days, hopefully. I'm quite exhausted, and overly aggressive towards anything and everybody.

:confused:

Yeah, rwhp after all I posted my sig so you could read it.

Apology accepted, I hope your niece is doing alright. Regardless of are veiw or thoughts I wish no harm/bad luck on anyone. I just love to talk car and race.

hey, fock drag racing, why dont we have a mustang works' boxing grudge match? that would solve who knows more about motors! in the spirit of the sport, i know more about motors than both of you put together! LETS GET READY TO RUUUUMMMMMBLE!

no biting or hair-pulling though ok?

I don't know how much this will help the subject, but:

My friend has a '93 Cobra with 3.73's, MAC headers and off-road h, March pulleys, 70mm MAF (don't remember brand), a Tremec and a King Cobra clutch. with these mods, running on reg street 17's, I ran a 8.95 @ 80.xx with a 2.0 60 ft in the eighth.
Oh, it also has a full Kenny Brown level 5 suspension.

IMHO, the car in question isn't really running all that bad, it just sounds like it needs some better tuning. A guy I know who's an engine builder (he built Claire Stewart's 9.2 real street car) says that the cobra cam isn't all that great either. In the case of Factory Stock combos, he runs the HO cam, and makes much more hp and torque. The story as i understand it is that the engineers at Ford thought the customers would dislike the lack of low end grunt with the larger FRPP (then SVO) cams, so they closed up the lobe sep. to account, and traded high end hp for low end torque.

I think with a little practice driving it should run really strong. But don't underestimate traction, it is paramount to running good times. The next couple steps you make should definitely be better tires, and maybe some suspension mods.

Eric

cool
 

...thanks for the reply, Eric. Now, how the heck did you run a 2.0 60' on stock rims & street tires?!!? If my 60' was a 2.0, my 14.13 run should have been a 13.8X run! Next thing for me is some tires, for sure.
Later!

Well, the car had 275/40/17's on the back, and i think they were Toyo proxes, which are good tires, but i don't remember positively. But, as for the 60 foot times, it just comes with practice. In my 92 LX with 4.10's, exhaust, and pulleys, my best 60 ft is a 2.014, and the average is about 2.03 or .04, and that's on 245/50/16 Mastercrafts. In my '95 GT with 3.55's pulleys and exhaust, my best is 2.08, and average about 2.10 on BFG 245/45/17s.

Just get some practice, and go to the track some night when there aren't many people there, and run as many times as possible, and change one thing each time until you improve. Try a little more or less rpm, slip the clutch a little more or less, those kind of things.