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Nitrous "cheap way to win"
Ok so im at the track Friday night. I was putting the the usual @ss whoopin on all of the redneck trucks and grand ams and cars of this sort. http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/rolleyes.gif I know nothing to brag about but a win is a win http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/wink.gif Anyways there was this guy that had a 94 mustang we were both parked with our hoods up waiting for our engines to cool in the staging area. I noticed the steel braid line that was tapped into his air inlet tube so I new he had NOS I asked the guy what kind of times he was running and he said a 14.9 was his best so far. So I assumed that either the guy is out of NOS or just doesnt use it. So we decide to race I was pumped about this race cause our ET ranges were so close I had been running 15.20's all night and his best was a 14.90 so in the burnout area I cook the hell out of my nitto's pulled up to the light and nailed it a .509 light with a .500 being perfect his light was a .836 and sure enough I ran a 15.21 and he ran a 14.93 so I just barely beat him at this point we were still getting along once again we are parked in the staging lanes and he says lets go again and naturaly I say lets go. so I kill him off the line by about a car length and all of the sudden he flies by me and beat me by ten car lengths I thought to myself what a cheap way to win. So next time around I tell him had to hit the juice huh and he says ok ill tell you what I wont hit the juice this time and I promise you you wont win. So we line up again and at the 1/8th mile he had me by half a car and I knew that my car wasnt gonna pull on him so I knew I was gonna lose and even with the lead the phucker hits the NOS just so he could make his point. Racing this guy was good for me though cause I improved my best times in every area Best 60ft 2.14 Best 1/8th 9.65 and best 1/4 15.20. All together he beat me 3 out of 5 times but every time he beat me he hit the juice and his car was faster than mine without it so what does that tell you I think that after my 3.73's get here I will dust this guys @ss cause all of his talent is in a bottle. Just my two cents.
------------------ 88 mustang gt convertible bored to 306 BBk equal length headers mac cold air fender kit cowl hood nitto drag radials ford racing clutch flow masters h-pipe 160* thermostat 16 degrees of timing electric fan off 94' t-bird jacobs electronics cap and wires |
call me a cheater then.... though i suppose i'd be p!ssed off too if i was running 15's.
------------------ 89 GT, flowmasters, gutted cats, headers, k&n, 3.73s, Removed Air Silencer, 80hp shot of NOS |
I'm surprized he didn't suggest a little wager too.
The way he used it on you was cheap and anyone there that watched you run him would know he sprayed you cause all of a sudden he is putting 10 cars on you when the race before you was side by side. ------------------ 93-LX: 5 Speed, Flow's with H-Pipe, 3.73's Sub's and K&N. |
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LOL!!!!!! Man this topic of NOS is cheating is soooo played out. Not everyone can afford to go fast and have a unlimited budget...jeez ------------------ '86 GT. Gears & Flows '87 GT. Stock |
Ok I'm not making a big deal out of this, but how is nitrous cheating? I can understand if the guy told you he wasn't going to use it and then he did. How is it any different from a supercharger or turbo? Ohhh man there are alot of people "cheating" out everwhere huh? Better watch out! Later.
------------------ 3:55's,BBK Off-Road H-pipe,BBK jet-hot coated equal length shorty headers,BBK 70mm Throttle Body,BBK adjustable clutch quadrant,C & L 76mm Mass air meter,Cobra R's 17x9 w/ 245's,Trick Flow Intake,Flowmaster Force II exhaust system, Super Duty T5,Centerforce II Clutch,Heavy Duty Radiator,9mm Ford racing plug wires,Accel cap and Rotor http://www.geocities.com/i8urvpr/JM.html?987369348700 |
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You must not read to well so I will explain it to you. If the guy would have said I am running 13's on NOS do you wanna race I still would have raced him just for fun and would have expected to lose. It was understood that this was an all motor match up and he hit the bottle to make up for his pathetic driving. I am not saying using NOS is cheating but like I said it was supposed to be an all motor race. So in this instance it was cheating. Damn everytime I post some guy that cant read to well starts trying to start a war. IF YOU CANT UNDERSTAND THAT HITTING NOS IN AN ALL MOTOR RACE IS CHEATING THEN YOU ARE AN IDIOT. THE GUY SAYS HE WONT USE THE JUICE AND THEN DOES WELL TO ME THAT IS CHEATING WHAT CAN I SAY. Yeah I run a 15.2 and what of it that is all my car will do I wish it was faster but its not I am not at all pissd I run 15.20's I bought my stang just to have fun with the only time I drive it is at the track. I am trying to decide weather to buy a holley systemax kit or a turbo by the end of the summer I will be at least at a low 13 I knew the car wasnt that fast when I bought it I just go to the track for fun. We all have to start somewhere 15.20 is not embarrassing to me 15.20 is a starting point. |
Ok maybe I didnt explain well enough in my opening post. The only reason we were even racing each other is cause we thought it would be competitive. I am known for nailing the lights and his car is a few tenths faster than mine. If you dont think that hitting the juice in a circumstance such as this is a cheap way to win I dont know what to say.
------------------ 88 mustang gt convertible bored to 306 BBk equal length headers mac cold air fender kit cowl hood nitto drag radials ford racing clutch flow masters h-pipe 160* thermostat 16 degrees of timing electric fan off 94' t-bird jacobs electronics cap and wires |
I need to stand up for N.O.S. I've used it for a while and like it. It's just a matter of taste. Why not be able to retain your gas milage and at the same time be able to hand some people their asses. I recently took my system out but plan on putting it back in and to tell you the truth I feel vulnerable right now. It gives you a piece of mind to be able to flip the switch when you need it.
------------------ 67'fastback-Edelbrock carb,intake,cam,valve springs.Rhode lifters, CompCam rocker arms, windage tray,cerama coated headers,dual flows with H-pipe, modded c-4,tci stall converter,perma cool electric fan,aluminum water pump,griffen aluminum radiator,accel 8.8 cable,wide cap distriburator,magnetic pick up,v-matic hurst shifter,edelbrock performer nitrous, carter electric fuel pump,ignitor coil,solid motor mounts,magna racing suspension,poly urathane bushings,under rider traction bars, comp. eng. s |
Damn I must not have read it right, I thought you said the guy was in a truck. And I actually just skimmed throuh it so....What kind of car do you have and what year? Remember have fun...15.2's I wouldsay you have an 86 Gt? Just a guess, see ya.
------------------ 3:55's,BBK Off-Road H-pipe,BBK jet-hot coated equal length shorty headers,BBK 70mm Throttle Body,BBK adjustable clutch quadrant,C & L 76mm Mass air meter,Cobra R's 17x9 w/ 245's,Trick Flow Intake,Flowmaster Force II exhaust system, Super Duty T5,Centerforce II Clutch,Heavy Duty Radiator,9mm Ford racing plug wires,Accel cap and Rotor http://www.geocities.com/i8urvpr/JM.html?987369348700 |
http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/rolleyes.gif"JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!" Just nevermind say what you want how he used it was cheap to say the least. Ok forget about the NOS i will just settle with the guy was a LIAR!!! Damn it whats up with all of this "Im gonna have to stand up for NOS" and "Well just call me a cheater to dude" and my personal favorite "guess theres alot of cheaters out then dude."
I did not mean to say NOS is cheap I was saying how this guy used his NOS was cheap cause it made him a liar. I dont even know how you can argue with that http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/confused.gif ------------------ 88 mustang gt convertible bored to 306 BBk equal length headers mac cold air fender kit cowl hood nitto drag radials ford racing clutch flow masters h-pipe 160* thermostat 16 degrees of timing electric fan off 94' t-bird jacobs electronics cap and wires |
calm down guys!
Sky ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, headers and 3chamber flows. 12.55@107mph 50-175 Nitrous Works WET Kit just added. |
Run whatcha brung!!!!!
(Exgmguy sprays like a skunk!!!!) ------------------ 1988 Mustang GT 12.0 @ 122 1992 BadAzz Wrangler 1993 Explorer |
When I first read the topic, I thought, yeah, and superchargers, turbos aren't cheap? They're all power adders.
After reading your post, I can see why you're pissed. He was supposed to race you naturally aspirated, and then juiced it. Right? I can understand that. Myself, I've finally got my juice in and waiting for a chance to use it. (Damn rain). I've had a few people say I'm cheating, but when I raced them I was all motor (beat a bunch of 13.2 second cars and stuff and didn't have the bottle in). Had to show them that it wasn't in too... Some people just try to find excuses for anything, winning or losing. |
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Even this guys own friends were making fun of him. His car was faster than mine without NOS. And the guy still had to hit it. I think I am gonna go with a 100 shot of NOS till I can afford to buy some heads. I am guessing that would put me around a 13.3 on the bottle. You cant expect everyone to be honest ill just have to fight NOS with NOS http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/wink.gif ------------------ 88 mustang gt convertible bored to 306 BBk equal length headers mac cold air fender kit cowl hood nitto drag radials ford racing clutch flow masters h-pipe 160* thermostat 16 degrees of timing electric fan off 94' t-bird jacobs electronics cap and wires |
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Ok 5.0 HO, I have analyzed your post above ( http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/biggrin.gif) and know what your talking about. NOS isnt cheating its the fact that he said he wouldn't use it. Cheater, liar, whatever else you want to call it I understand what your saying. Don't worry about these guys, most of 'em don't read the whole post. Too many of them saw the title and got their panties in a wad. http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/biggrin.gif http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/biggrin.gif |
I think your afraid of the nitrous. My friend has an 86 GT and it's all stock and he'll smoke you too! I'm going to have to agree with EXGMGUY run whatcha brung.
------------------ 3:55's,BBK Off-Road H-pipe,BBK jet-hot coated equal length shorty headers,BBK 70mm Throttle Body,BBK adjustable clutch quadrant,C & L 76mm Mass air meter,Cobra R's 17x9 w/ 245's,Trick Flow Intake,Flowmaster Force II exhaust system, Super Duty T5,Centerforce II Clutch,Heavy Duty Radiator,9mm Ford racing plug wires,Accel cap and Rotor http://www.geocities.com/i8urvpr/JM.html?987369348700 |
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You obviously didnt read the post did you http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/rolleyes.gif ------------------ 88 mustang gt convertible bored to 306 BBk equal length headers mac cold air fender kit cowl hood nitto drag radials ford racing clutch flow masters h-pipe 160* thermostat 16 degrees of timing electric fan off 94' t-bird jacobs electronics cap and wires. best 60 ft 2.14, best 1/8th 9.65, best 1/4 15.2 @89mph |
a good n/a combo can put a blower or nitrous car away, unless the guy already has heads/cam/intake + nitous. that might be tuff. but racing has alot to do with tuning/driver/ traction and money of course.
run what ya brung ------------------ 88gt gt40 irons mill/port, ported up/low efi,mac longs,1.6 rrs, crane fpr,fms a/c elim,dynomax s.t.,190lph,weld rims, bfg drs,3.73s, parts in limbo 24# inj and compcam .533 lift, 73 c&l mass 82gt 351w in limbo 89 4 cyl notch in limbo |
I know what your saying 5.0. Some peoples egos get in the way of personal integrity. Don't worry about the guys on this post who obliously don't have a real knowledge of what racing is all about. Keep being truthful and ignore anyone who's ego is to big for thier car.
------------------ Steve Stumbaugh 89 LX 5.0 5sp. Removed air silencer Motorcraft 8mm wires Autolite platinum plugs BBK O/R h-pipe |
so what did the liar run when he used his nos? just curious http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif oh yea, i used to have alot of fun when i ran high 14's-low 15's too! to me it doesn't matter how fast you go just have fun doing it http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif at least you know you were the better driver http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif take it easy
leon ------------------ 96 stang,ported 99 heads, 99 intake, 99 cams,Steeda power pullies,Kirban adj.reg.,Pro-m 87,24#inj.,70mm t/b,BBK longtube headers,Bassani x-pipe w/cats, Dynomax ultraflow catback,iat mod, home depot ram air, k@n,373's,cobra brakes,fms spings, tri-ax shifter. best et 13.80 best mph 103.3 bfg street tires,bakersfield, ca |
I'm just giving you guys a hard time, yeah I read your post, now you need to get nos and go up to the guy and race for money and smoke him. =P Good luck. Anyway you never told me what kid of car you have? See ya.
------------------ 3:55's,BBK Off-Road H-pipe,BBK jet-hot coated equal length shorty headers,BBK 70mm Throttle Body,BBK adjustable clutch quadrant,C & L 76mm Mass air meter,Cobra R's 17x9 w/ 245's,Trick Flow Intake,Flowmaster Force II exhaust system, Super Duty T5,Centerforce II Clutch,Heavy Duty Radiator,9mm Ford racing plug wires,Accel cap and Rotor http://www.geocities.com/i8urvpr/JM.html?987369348700 |
Sorry I see that you have an 88 GT now. I just now have read your post all he way through. Are you spinning off the line or what? You should at least be in 14's. But my first run I ever ran was like a 15.3 so....it should get better. =P Later
------------------ 3:55's,BBK Off-Road H-pipe,BBK jet-hot coated equal length shorty headers,BBK 70mm Throttle Body,BBK adjustable clutch quadrant,C & L 76mm Mass air meter,Cobra R's 17x9 w/ 245's,Trick Flow Intake,Flowmaster Force II exhaust system, Super Duty T5,Centerforce II Clutch,Heavy Duty Radiator,9mm Ford racing plug wires,Accel cap and Rotor http://www.geocities.com/i8urvpr/JM.html?987369348700 |
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That's what I went through. I still can't launch but when my car gets going it'll fly by most of the guys around here, making them think I've got the bottle in. Practice your launching and shifting, and with good tires, you should take him with both of you running off the bottle. |
I thought that I should of been in the 14's to but a 15.20 is all she has in her. I think alot of my problem is my headers the car felt faster before I installed them (bbk equal length 1 5/8 headers)
------------------ 88 mustang gt convertible bored to 306 BBk equal length headers mac cold air fender kit cowl hood nitto drag radials ford racing clutch flow masters h-pipe 160* thermostat 16 degrees of timing electric fan off 94' t-bird jacobs electronics cap and wires. best 60 ft 2.14, best 1/8th 9.65, best 1/4 15.2 @89mph |
I would agree, right now the headers are hurting you.
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Why do you think the headers are hurting him?
------------------ 3:55's,BBK Off-Road H-pipe,BBK jet-hot coated equal length shorty headers,BBK 70mm Throttle Body,BBK adjustable clutch quadrant,C & L 76mm Mass air meter,Cobra R's 17x9 w/ 245's,Trick Flow Intake,Flowmaster Force II exhaust system, Super Duty T5,Centerforce II Clutch,Heavy Duty Radiator,9mm Ford racing plug wires,Accel cap and Rotor http://www.geocities.com/i8urvpr/JM.html?987369348700 |
The headers are hurting him because of lack of back pressure. I had 1 5/8" shorties with and o/r H pipe on my stock engine, and it was gutless off the line, only at 3500rpm and higher did I feel any difference.
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I personally don't think the headers are hurting him, just got done watching a friend on the dyno about a week ago. All stock 90 LX/ with just headers added 8rwhp, and 10rwtq, so.... not sure what your talking about.
------------------ 3:55's,BBK Off-Road H-pipe,BBK jet-hot coated equal length shorty headers,BBK 70mm Throttle Body,BBK adjustable clutch quadrant,C & L 76mm Mass air meter,Cobra R's 17x9 w/ 245's,Trick Flow Intake,Flowmaster Force II exhaust system, Super Duty T5,Centerforce II Clutch,Heavy Duty Radiator,9mm Ford racing plug wires,Accel cap and Rotor http://www.geocities.com/i8urvpr/JM.html?987369348700 [This message has been edited by 1BAD89 (edited 06-02-2001).] |
I think that this is getting off topic.
Basically what I'm refering to the idea of velocity, the bigger the area it has to fill means that it slows down right? (same idea as ports on heads), I believe that's volumetric efficiency, that's why 1 1/2" headers will yield better results on a stock engine. I'm not saying you won't gain power, but there is some drawbacks to it. [This message has been edited by 86GT (edited 06-02-2001).] |
Adding 1 5/8" equal length shortie headers on a stock car is a really quick way to add another tenth or two onto your 1/4 mile time.
The velocity is a byproduct of the real culprit; the tuning effect has much more to do with it. The headers are actually designed to help pull exhuast gasses out of the engine while the exhaust valve is open. This will lower your cylinder pressure. Cylinder pressure is directly related to torque production, and at low rpms the overlap time is greater, allowing for more exhaust gas to leave the cylinder, resulting in lower torque production, and a loss of power until higher rpms. I would seriously doubt the validity of ANY dyno run showing an 8hp (peak) increase in hp production with equal length shortie headers on a totally stock engine. Adding a high flow H pipe and freer flowing exhaust compounds the problem on a stock engine. Full length headers are designed to help create a tuning effect at higher rpm's, yet they also have a tendancy to create a backpressure pulse to keep some backpressure on the cylinders so they do not rob as much (or any) torque. Shorties simply cannot do that, their collectors make it much harder to create that type of backpresure. So while the headers may increase hp production by 8hp, it'll be increased at 5500rpm, well out of the powerband that a geared 5.0 should be seeing. It'll also be costing hp and serious amounts of torque up until higher engine rpms. Take a look at the primary size of the head's exhaust port, compare to a 1 5/8" header and you'll see what 86GT was saying about the lower velocity, and why they "tune" your exhaust flow. 1 1/2" unequal length headers are the best compremise for a stock engine, unless you go with long tubes. |
Well Unit I have seen it with my own eyes, so believe what you want to believe. Also adding an off-road H-pipe, headers, and mufflers, WILL knock time off of your 1/4 time. It has proved so on MY 1/4 time and my friends. So I have no idea where your coming from? I encourage you to get more people in on this discussion.
------------------ 3:55's,BBK Off-Road H-pipe,BBK jet-hot coated equal length shorty headers,BBK 70mm Throttle Body,BBK adjustable clutch quadrant,C & L 76mm Mass air meter,Cobra R's 17x9 w/ 245's,Trick Flow Intake,Flowmaster Force II exhaust system, Super Duty T5,Centerforce II Clutch,Heavy Duty Radiator,9mm Ford racing plug wires,Accel cap and Rotor http://www.geocities.com/i8urvpr/JM.html?987369348700 [This message has been edited by 1BAD89 (edited 06-02-2001).] |
Oh, I'm not saying the headers, H pipe, exhaust combo will hurt the 1/4 mile time. Adding just headers on a bone factory car will in most cases, though.
The explanation in physics is right above your last post. An H pipe will add a legitimate 15-20hp. That is serious extra power. Stock your 5.0 won't pull worth crap at much higher than 5000rpms, when you add all the exhaust mods, you get it to flow better up top, but you lose low end. The reason you may not feel it is because of your gears. The 3.55:1 gear ratio you are currently running allows you to stay in a more narrow rpm range allowing you to utilize the extra topend power the exhaust creates. Not to mention the additional torque multiplication involved with going from factory 2.73's to 3.55's which offsets some of the torque loss. I could compare your experiance to the 150 experiances of other 5.0 drivers who've experianced the loss of low end torque phenomenon, too. As far as the dyno, was it at the same temp, was the car at the same temp, same humidity? Was the additional 8hp and 10 lb/ft at the previous (and reoccuring max horsepower rpm)? Or was the original dyno showing a max hp at 4200rpm and the new one showing 4500rpm? If that's the case, what's the increase at the previous max, the new max, and avg? It all gets technical, but if the old headers made 178hp@3800, 183hp@4000, 187hp@4200, 185hp@4400, 179hp@4600, 171hp@4800, 166hp@5000 new headers 164hp@3800, 173hp@4000, 183hp@4200, 193hp@4400, 183hp@4600, 174hp@4800, 169hp@5000 The new headers would have added a peak 8hp increase, but overall they wouldn't have helped anything, plus they would have moved the powerband a little higher hurting low end performance on a stock geared car pretty bad. Adding an H pipe and freer flowing exhaust might make your numbers look more like 158hp@3800, 170hp@4000, 188hp@4200, 200hp@4400, 201hp@4600, 191hp@4800, 183hp@5000 Serious low end losses occur with those mods, but if you have gears, or solid traction and you can keep the car in it's powerband, you'll certainly improve your times. It really helps in the 4500-5500rpm area for flow, but much above 5000rpm most stock 5.0's are restricted by their heads/intake. That pretty much negates the higher rpm gains much above 5500rpm. I experianced a huge performance increase with my hi flow H-pipe and 2.5" exhaust. I'm relatively certain, had I chosen to use the 1 5/8" headers I had, my low end would have been deystroyed because of my stock gears (2.73) and my T-5z's 2.95:1 1st gear ratio. It's already too tall, with the 3.35:1 1st gear of the standard T-5 I had, I could launch very hard (with street tires) and it would use every bit of traction out of the hole. Now it's very, very hard to manage to get the proper launch. I either bog badly, spin badly, or spin a little, then bog a little. ------------------ 1987 GT 5spd. D&D Performance "Z" spec T-5 Dynomax 2.5" Super Turbo system BBK 2 1/2" H-pipe with cats |
Ok I must hav mis-read your post I thought it said the headers,h-pipe, and free flowing exhaust would hurt it. By the way,I am looking for a new engine and I was thinking 347 or 306 for DSS or CHP, anyone havean opinion? Also with the new motor I wa thinking of going to long tube headers, possibly bassani or BBK? And a short off-road X-pipe? Tell me what you think?
------------------ 3:55's,BBK Off-Road H-pipe,BBK jet-hot coated equal length shorty headers,BBK 70mm Throttle Body,BBK adjustable clutch quadrant,C & L 76mm Mass air meter,Cobra R's 17x9 w/ 245's,Trick Flow Intake,Flowmaster Force II exhaust system, Super Duty T5,Centerforce II Clutch,Heavy Duty Radiator,9mm Ford racing plug wires,Accel cap and Rotor http://www.geocities.com/i8urvpr/JM.html?987369348700 |
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