Today's Market of Import Vs. Domestic

[Fox Body]

I guess you guys figure I've been complaining a lot lately, but I got another issue I need to discuss (vent, i guess). A good friend of mine just bought a new car-- and guess what, it's a Honda Accord. He was telling me how the resale value and economy, durability, etc was so much better than domestic cars. Nowadays, I see more and more people buying imports. Maybe it's just me. Now, I have a lot of Ford and domestic friends and it seems that my closest friends in some way prefer domestics, specifically muscle cars of some sort, but you know how you are "acquainted with" a LOT more people than just your close friends? and those are the majority of the people I know who buy imports.

I don't have much experience with the imports vs. domestics debate cause I haven't owned any other car than a Mustang myself and I love it. But if I don't have the experience with owning new domestics or new imports, I can't realy argue against what some are saying about the imports lasting longer and resale value being higher, etc.

Can we talk about this guys? What's going on here?

[MidNiteBlu 5.0]

I would probably buy an import if i was just looking for a daily driver that I wouldnt do anything to and wated good gas mileage and comfort.

[69fastback]

I can tell a little story about this subject. When I got back from kuwait this time last year alot of people went out and bought cars. Two guys i work with bought honda accords a 91 and 93 and i got a 91 gt. The one dude paid about 3k for the 91 with 150k on it the other guy paid over 6 for the 93 with 70,000 both cars very stock. Both guys talk about how much hondas are better they know how much I hate them. I paid just over 4 for my 91 with brand new paint, leather interior, gears, headers, h-pipe, flowmasters all the normal stuff on a street mustang with only 63,000 miles on it. Well the mustang now has a couple more mods, a few street race wins, and a couple of show car thropies. I have been offered as much as 9,000 for it. While the two hondas are still slow as hell and the 91 honda has broken down 3 times and the 93 honda has a new computer that brunt out. While the funny part is the guy with the 93 honda has set up a couple of races with other imports (who think their car is the fastest thing ever this town i live in is pretty lame for cars) for me and he put up the money. LOL so you tell me wich car you would rather have

[420nitro]

As an appraiser I can tell you that more and more people are buying imports for the simple reason of resale values and the cars generally last longer under NORMAL conditions! I personally always had domestic vehicles, but let me tell you when I have to appraise import cars with 80,000 some miles on it and the door, engine, transmission,etc still runs like new, it kind of makes you think a little bit! Then I will apraise the same thing but domestic and the car seams like it was aboused from day one. And I see this every day!! Now not to say that its like this with every import and domestic car or truck I do, but the majority of it is like that. What dictates resale value or at least controls 50% of what your cars is worth is what your car brand new has for rebates. If you have a 2003 cobra and all of a sudden Ford comes out with a 3,500 dollar rebate, your 03 cobra thats in mint condition with 20 miles on it just dropped in price like a rock!!!!!! And lets face it, The Big Three (Fords, GM, Chrysler) are always pushing the big rebates plus the low intrest rates after you neg. your best price!
Sad but True
P.S
Born an American
Buy American

[mustangII460]

Im a American and I buy American. I owe that to my Country.


Having said that. There are some things I can't avoid buying that are imported. I wish I could change that but I can't. So I choose carfully.

God Bless America!

[gofastmercury]

I think the domestics were hit really hard in the 80's. The Imports were built so much better. It was a good thing, because now the domestics are a lot better. It will take some time for the public to see that the these car are not going to rust apart, break down, paint fall off, and basically turn into crap after a few years. As usual, the free enterprise system works, just not always the way you would like it too.

By the way, I'm a diehard ford guy (right now I own 5) but the Wife drives a AWD turbo Subaru.

And even though we do OK, money wise, I cannot ever see us buying a new car, just way too much money.

[Capri306]

I'm as big an American booster as you'll find, but the sad fact is that Detroit is STILL in the process of 'waking up'. They are still in the mindset that, "people will buy whatever crap we put out there," and the Japanese were smart enough to see that Detroit would have a hard time getting away from Tayloristic management. Detroit will have to basically "unmake" all of the wrongs it has done by proving itself through reliability AND performance, while doing it at a low cost to the consumer. The latter is what I fear they have a problem doing. It will be a sad day when Detroit is no longer the motor city it once was.

We were burdened with inventing an industry; they benefitted by taking our products and refining them. We would've done the same thing had it been the other way around.

You want to know the funny thing about Hondas? They're the most American-made vehicle in the country right now. Ford, GM and Chrysler have all said they are players in the "global economy," which in layman's terms means, "screw our people, our brothers, sisters, fathers, and mothers at home! We need a cheaper product so we can get profitability up! And I don't care if some 8-year-old in China making 50 cents a month makes parts for my cars, just do it!" THAT IS THE COLD, HARD FACT OF THE MATTER. GREED is yet another enemy of Detroit's auto industry, IMO. I'm not against ANYONE making money, nor large sums of it. But there is a certain point at which it's just going to hurt you and/or your business to continue hording such wealth. What could you possibly do with $40 billion??? Would it *really* make a difference if you made only, say, $39 billion?

I've been to these product launches, the meetings, the presentations on the "benefits" of global marketing. The bottom line? Every job in this country that has anything to do with manufacturing/engineering is going to Asia. Period. They work for peanuts over there, and the cost savings are just too enticing to pass up. Seriously, would you pay engineer X $40,000/year, or would you pay engineer Y $40/week to do the same job? The greed is just amazing, though. The suits just don't see any benefit to paying anyone here in the states anymore, when there's a huge market overseas that can do it cheaper.

Okay, I ranted enough. Just trying to get to the crux of the argument.

[Mr 5 0]

Price drives the market of course but the vaunted reliability of the Japanese brands also accounts for the big market share the imports take out of the American auto industry and as already mentioned, most of the Hondas and Toyotas sold here are made in America. The emergence of the 'ricer' phenomena among todays younger car owners will almost guarantee the same people will stay with an import later in life and this will also factor into the reality of Japanese/import cars taking an even bigger bite out of the domestic manufacturers bottom lines in the coming years.

While 'niche' cars like the V-8 Mustang will probably survive for some time, the imports have American manufacturers on the run in many segments of the automobile sales market and now the imports are gaining on Ford in the light-truck market, long a solid base of income for Ford as well as for Chevy. Not good.

Very high union wages and benefits have hurt Detroit as well as their too-well-known shoddy workmanship and lack of new ideas. Today, new car buyers expect their new car to last well over 100,000 miles with no serious mechanical problems. Most Japanese cars deliver that on that expectation but some domestics don't. People only remember the ones that don't, then go buy a 'bulletproof' Japanese car because their relative, friend or neighbor has one that went 150,000 with no real hassles...and they got $1,000. for it at trade-in time. The resale value is important to many car buyers, as well as the reliability of the car - and American cars are not meeting expectations on either front too much of the time, so this slowly but steadily erodes the American automobile manufacturers sales.

Look at what a Ford Taurus is worth after 3 years and compare it to a Honda Accord. Big difference. People have caught on to this and they buy imports, as much for the resale value as for the reliability and the price, which is generally competitive with domestic vehicles. I know a guy who just bought a 2004 Honda Civic LX (auto) with no extras for $15,800. plus tax and title. I saw the bill of sale so it wasn't BS on his part. Hard to beat that kind of deal on a car with great gas mileage, excellent reliability and very high resale value.

Mustang owners, like us, have specific wants in our cars; mainly lots of power and handling performance along with the Mustang cachet. We don't usually even consider an import. Unfortunately, we are becoming a minority and even those who 'buy American' out of loyality (which is great) are getting a car with lots of parts made elsewhere than America. I doubt American auto manufacturers will be going out of business anytime soon, but they will shrink in size, I'm certain. A lot of that is their own fault, as we all know. Look, when I want to buy a new (brand name) TV or other appliance, I check all the store's prices and if Wal-Mart is cheaper than the rest, I buy it at Wal-Mart. If Wal-Mart was run by a Japanese company, I might think twice and buy at the local appliance store but if the local appliance store charged 20% more for the same item, I'm buying at Wal-Mart. I only have so much money to spend on an appliance - or a car. Unless the appliance - or the car - is something very specific that I can only get at one place (like a Mustang), I'm buying where the price is lowest, in most cases. Everyone does this.

One more thing: most car buyers don't care much about performance: they just want to get from point A to point B with no car hassles, good gas mileage and some degree of comfort. Japanese manufacturers understand this and make cars that fit the bill perfectly, and Americans buy them by the hundreds of thousands (400,000 Honda Accords sold last year). That will continue as long as American manufacturers continue to cut quality corners to keep their pricing competitive with the imports and fail to excite potential buyers with new, innovative models and designs. Impersonating the Japanese cars won't cut it for Detroit anymore...if it ever did.

[BigCountryGT]

I've been to these product launches, the meetings, the presentations on the "benefits" of global marketing. The bottom line? Every job in this country that has anything to do with manufacturing/engineering is going to Asia. Period. They work for peanuts over there, and the cost savings are just too enticing to pass up. Seriously, would you pay engineer X $40,000/year, or would you pay engineer Y $40/week to do the same job? The greed is just amazing, though. The suits just don't see any benefit to paying anyone here in the states anymore, when there's a huge market overseas that can do it cheaper

I think Capri306 hit the nail on the head there. The only thing we have on China right now is service. It still takes a while to sail across the ocean and flying is expensive.
By the way I bought a 92 ranger with a 4.0 v-6 when I got out of H.S. I drag raced it, went mud riding, and just generally drove the piss out of it. It had about 260K on it when I ripped the speedometer cable off. I passed it off to my little bro who is still driving it. I dare say it has around 280k to 300k on it now and I will still line it up against one of those foreign trucks.

I just don't see how people can stand to have those things in there yards, German maybe but Asian cars stink.

[mustardjohn]

Take Heart. Look at Harley. Can Ford and GM do as good a job. we will have to wait but I see new Harley dealers going up all over.

[mustardjohn]

Hey and marketing plays a big role. Every 80s yuppie some how thought they had to have either a BMW (wimpy 318 was fine long as it was a Beamer and cost plenty) or a Honda, acura, etc. Now they think they have to have an SUV.

Just went on 9 hour interstate drive today. Believe me there are a lot of Tahoes and Expeditions out there. So far US rules the SUV and they ain't driving 70 either. Yeah there are ricer SUV's but they are really wimps compared to a big Surburban.

And don't forget the old F150. How many fleets of Toyota's have you seen. We have not seen many here in Texas. Yeah there are some Tundra's out there but if you want a real truck a Mazda B210 just doesn't get it.

There is something bogus about resale value anyway. It is a gemick to get your mind off how much you are really paying for that new car.

[mustardjohn]

Oh yeah and resale value somehow implies cars are investments which they ain't 99.9999% of the time. This is marketing BS to help you over the initial cost.

[HotRoddin]

Originally posted by BigCountryGT

By the way I bought a 92 ranger with a 4.0 v-6 when I got out of H.S. I drag raced it, went mud riding, and just generally drove the piss out of it. It had about 260K on it when I ripped the speedometer cable off. I passed it off to my little bro who is still driving it. I dare say it has around 280k to 300k on it now and I will still line it up against one of those foreign trucks.

This is a perfect example. I'm a damage appraiser, i spend a good part of my day thumbing through Kelly Blue Book. The vehicle that stands out most in my mind is the little Ford Ranger ??? They have to be the best buy going right now because the resale on them just goes through the freekin floor in 2 or 3 years. Why, I have absolutely no clue ? I talk to the body shops about them and ask if they're put together poorly or difficult to work on, and they say no, not at all .... i ask one of the mechanics if they had more than the usual amount of problems with them, and he said in fact, they have very few problems with them, and overall he considers them to be good reliable little trucks ????? I'm baffled.
I know lots of import owners that tell me they have a jillion miles on their import, but i know alot of domestic owners that say the same thing. I know my only personal experience with imports is a toyota celica i inherited when i married my wife .... it was a total piece of crap!! It broke down all the time and was obsurdly expensive to work on when it did.
The longer i'm around in this world, the more i'm finding out that about 80% of the so called truths you hear are just pure conjecture, pure Urban legend. They are things that are passed off as fact, when in reality there is no basis or proof to support that conclusion.
Are imports built that much better than domestics? I know there are tons of people that will say yes, but I just don't see the PROOF of it.
All you young people take heed of this ... In this world .... especially now days, just because a bunch of people (whether experts or not) say it's a fact ... that does not make it a fact. Reality is often quite different than majority opinion.

[mustardjohn]

quote "????I'm Baffled"

That is what marketing is all about. That is why people buy pet rocks. "Baffling"

Don't get me wrong marketing can be [is] a winning strategy. ergo "resale value", blah blah and "German engineering = I want an beamer" and "Japan = quality" but it is still BS. A game of how can I make you want this? How can I get you to believe me? How can I make you think this is a reliable product?

Of course you have to be about equal but after that spin goes a long way. The last thing you want is more data.

I work in sales and marketing. One great TV ad among equals can change the landscape for many years.

20 years ago who would have thought you would pay as much for a bottle of water as a cheap beer. Now many have to have bottle water and only drink imported or microbrewed beer.

What happened to Pabst Blue Ribbon or Schlitz?

Ford and GM let the Asians gain equality in small/medium cars after that spin takes over

Thank god for US inventiveness in minivans and SUVs and never allowing equality in trucks or [realtively] cheap mussle cars.

Wonder what the new GTO is is all about? Hope it is not too retro.

[mustardjohn]

Oh yeah and why wouldn't I want a $40/hr engineer instead of a $40,000 engineer if I get the same product? We must be innovative to maintain the $ edge. A $40/hr engineer can produce great cheap copies. Same goes for Sales and Marketing people.

Whats that commercial.... ".. the old fashion way .. We earn it..."

[BigCountryGT]

I know my only personal experience with imports is a toyota celica i inherited when i married my wife .... it was a total piece of crap!! It broke down all the time and was obsurdly expensive to work on when it did.

Mine was a Toyota corolla went from it to a 1979 F100 you could buy any part on it for $30. I know the 99 sierra I bought last year was worth more (bank loan value) than a 2000 FI00 with 10K less miles about $2500 more. But they cost more new also.

I am trying to sell a 97 taurus now. so I know what you mean with the Taurus.

It's a dam fine car leather, power seats, sunroof, It's as loaded as they come no problems ever. I'm lucky to get $3500

[srv1]

I have 4 Toyotas. 3 trucks and a Supra. Not one of them left me stranded and they all run very well. The trucks have 154k,84k and a 195k. THe Supra has 206k. They start everytime hot or cold for the mileage they have on them. My Mustang has been very reliable. I have yet to have ANY major problem with it. It just turned 100k. It never left me stranded either, but I know the common problems with Fords and most likely it is bound to happen. Ford did improve in a big way and that is a plus. I believe the Japanese make a better overall car. For the most part, they are not "crap". I owned them and the biggest complaint is rust, other than that great vehicles. I really do believe Toyota makes the BEST compact truck. I worked on too many American crap cars to lean more towards domestic.

James

[Fox Body]

There are a lot of good points brought up by everyone in this thread.

Originally posted by Mr 5 0
....Today, new car buyers expect their new car to last well over 100,000 miles with no serious mechanical problems. Most Japanese cars deliver that on that expectation but some domestics don't. People only remember the ones that don't, then go buy a 'bulletproof' Japanese car because their relative, friend or neighbor has one that went 150,000 with no real hassles...and they got $1,000. for it at trade-in time. The resale value is important to many car buyers, as well as the reliability of the car - and American cars are not meeting expectations on either front too much of the time, so this slowly but steadily erodes the American automobile manufacturers sales.

Look at what a Ford Taurus is worth after 3 years and compare it to a Honda Accord. Big difference. People have caught on to this and they buy imports, as much for the resale value as for the reliability and the price, which is generally competitive with domestic vehicles. I know a guy who just bought a 2004 Honda Civic LX (auto) with no extras for $15,800. plus tax and title. I saw the bill of sale so it wasn't BS on his part. Hard to beat that kind of deal on a car with great gas mileage, excellent reliability and very high resale value...

...Look, when I want to buy a new (brand name) TV or other appliance, I check all the store's prices and if Wal-Mart is cheaper than the rest, I buy it at Wal-Mart. If Wal-Mart was run by a Japanese company, I might think twice and buy at the local appliance store but if the local appliance store charged 20% more for the same item, I'm buying at Wal-Mart. I only have so much money to spend on an appliance - or a car. Unless the appliance - or the car - is something very specific that I can only get at one place (like a Mustang), I'm buying where the price is lowest, in most cases. Everyone does this.

One more thing: most car buyers don't care much about performance: they just want to get from point A to point B with no car hassles, good gas mileage and some degree of comfort. Japanese manufacturers understand this and make cars that fit the bill perfectly, and Americans buy them by the hundreds of thousands (400,000 Honda Accords sold last year). That will continue as long as American manufacturers continue to cut quality corners to keep their pricing competitive with the imports and fail to excite potential buyers with new, innovative models and designs. Impersonating the Japanese cars won't cut it for Detroit anymore...if it ever did.

From the quote above pertty much fits what I've been going through lately. I'm hearing the words "resale value, dependability, reliability, 200,000 miles, KBB value", etc. A friend of mine who had an Oldsmobile SUV just traded it in for some import SUV. He and his wife says the domestic was always in the shop, but that the Olds was much more comfortable inside. My brother's Grand Am was always breaking. One thing after another, transmisssion, turn signal switch, light switch, interior pieces, belt tensioner, breaks, etc. (and I do mean etc). But hey, my dad's Ford Ranger XLT has been through a bunch and still runs strong.

As was mentioned b4, I know there is a lot of BS bandwagoneers floating around the import consumers, but at the same time, a good amount of negatives against domestics and for imports is supported by evidence and testimony.

And also, like already mentioned, look at the resale value of a Taurus compared to an Accord or a Cavalier compared to a 4-door Civic. I dunno, but this all seems to me greater than just some fad. I could be wrong, but it seems that domestic manufacturers are smug and set in their ways. What is their strategy? Do they see what is happening or are we the ones that are deceived? And as already mentioned, it does seem like some domestic manufacturers are really just trying to copy some of the imports in design instead of just coming up with their own ideas. However, I notice that most domestics have more of a higher quality interior pieces and luxuries (such as electric seats, digital guages, outside temperature, just stuff that makes the car -- or SUV--more comfortable or luxurious inside), but will be at the shop in the next 5 - 10 years quicker than the imports (from what I hear people complaining about).

I tell you the truth, I'm just sick and tired of hearing that imports such as Honda, Toyota, Nissan are getting better reviews and are more reliable and have higher resale values than domestics-- but I guess that's the freedom of capitalism???

....and I cringe everytime I hear another friend tell me "hey, I bought a new Honda Accord... "

[mustardjohn]

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Quote
...Look, when I want to buy a new (brand name) TV or other appliance, I check all the store's prices and if Wal-Mart is cheaper than the rest, I buy it at Wal-Mart. If Wal-Mart was run by a Japanese company, I might think twice and buy at the local appliance store but if the local appliance store charged 20% more for the same item, I'm buying at Wal-Mart. I only have so much money to spend on an appliance - or a car. Unless the appliance - or the car - is something very specific that I can only get at one place (like a Mustang), I'm buying where the price is lowest, in most cases. Everyone does this.
__________________________________________________ _

Wal Mart is a Chinese store not Japanese. Check it out Wal-Mart represents over 10% of China's Gross National Product. Cheap is costing us a lot of jobs.

Resale value is a market driven phenomena. Market charges what it can get for a product. Reputation is a part of it but not all.
Believing that a 1995 Honda SHOULD cost more than a 1995 Tarus is also part of it. Marketing plays a big role.

[RBatson]

I think any car brand has the ability to go 200k miles, if its maintained like it should be. I realize that parts for some American cars are built in other countries, sometimes the majority of the car and some import brands are built here but I still buy American brands whenever possible. When someone starts the import vs domestic debate with me I just think of all the out of work americans. The same folks buying these imports are the same ones who are going to cry the loudest when they no longer have a job. You can't help but buy some foreign products but I don't understand why you would buy import when we have the same domestic product right here, not only cars but clothes and such. My levi's are not longer made in American!! I can't believe it!! I think there should be higher taxes on the imports, maybe then people would look at the domestic products twice.. and if a car maker where to advertise they were 98% made in the US I think folks would be willing to pay a little more(out of pride). What it comes down to with me is the fact that I want Americans owning American.