raced a Supra Twin Turbo
 

I was riding in my car (1999 GT Stang 35th anniversary limited edition convertible) when a Supra Twin Turbo stopped at the light just beside me. I took a look at my girl friend, good seams like she didn't see the car. I look at the guy looks like he wants to race... :D

Light turned green... first gear Oupss where the car... the guy is way back... OK I guess he did not have a good start??

We stop at the second light he did even dear to look at me... so I thought that it was over. I took a look at my girl friend... She doesn't look to please :p Light turned green, he floor it. What the hell... I floor it too, first second the car is way back... I just ate the guy and my girl friend gave me a look (you know the kind of look when she have those knife in her eyes and want's to kill you with it) and said: “Don’t you dare do that again!” :P lol

Anyway, I thought Supras where faster then that.

Why did she care that you raced him? If my girlfriend got pissed at that I'd probably punch her in the face!(just kidding, she tries to race people also:D )

Ok the TT Supra wasnt racing. Or it wasnt a TT. Or he was towing a trailor that you didnt see.

That is unless you forgot to mention your mods.

:confused:

After speaking with my friends we figuer out that the guy was a ricer cause he had Twin Turbo written on his car... So I gues it wasn't a real one. Anyway that explain a lot :P

Wings and badges
 

Lots of Supra owners put the wing and the TT badges on regular Supras for what they consider "eye appeal". I've seen several like that, but they usually know better than to race.

Rev

i dont get them. why make your car out to be something its not, be proud of what you have. anyway nice kill and awesome job putting yet another ricer who thinks hes hot in his place. oh yeah and take 429mustangs advice and punch your girlfriend in the face next time she gives you **** for racing, im sure that will go over well :rolleyes: :D :D ;)

Stock they dont run much better than a 14.20. There are a few stock ones out there, they are just like mustangs, there are not to many of them left stock:cool:

Supras
 

There are a bunch still in stock trim around where I live. I mean there isn't a ton of them because they haven't made them in such a long time...but I'd say 90% of the ones I see are still stock...a guy or girl somewhere in their 50s behind the wheel. The last thing on their mind is racing their car. :p But that seems to me the majority of people I run across with fast cars. Most of them are scared to even floor it and feel the power of their car that they spent big bucks on...let alone drag race it. "Take it over 5,000 rpms?! Are you crazy?!" :p :D

Sounds like a Corvette driver to me:rolleyes: :eek:

Saw a turbo'd Supra put the whoop on an a new Trans Am the other day. I was sitting at the Sonic eating my No. 2 bacon cheese burger when I hear all this racket. Looked over to the street and see this Supra pulling like crazy on a TA. They were both on it, and that Supra sounded flat out awesome. Stock? Probably not. ;)

--nathan

How fast did you get up to? Those things arent great off the line but they are INSANE on the top end when the boost spools up.

Though it sounds like you found a damn ricer :rolleyes:

50's?
 

Hee, hee, some of us old farts still love to race.

Rev

I gues the max was arround 70 or 80 Km/h.

I am dying to get my chance at a TT supra, I ran one when I was H/C/I car and started to pull tell about 70 (started at 20) and we had to let off. A guy I know here has a single turbo (big mods) and we raced when I was NA and I could hold him off tell the top of second then he just drove around me. This year it should be more interesting.

Some facts about real TT Supras short and blunt:

As stated, in stock form they aren't better than high 13 - low 14 second in the 1/4 mile.

Modded they're crazy top-enders.

They can put down insane HP #'s but aren't great in the torque dept which means impressive dyno sheets but poor times. It also explains their ability to get great trap speeds.

60' times are horrible and can be taken off the line easily, don't try running one from a 60mph roll (who does that anyway?).

Most owners don't know how to drive'em. They're uppity about their HP but don't want to talk torque.

In short, high TT Supra HP & their inherent low torque will give them big speeds in the 1/4 mile but you'll beat them to the finish line first. They're the ultimate dyno queens.

Exactly what I was thinking......

Speaking of racing a Supra, I got race one a few weeks ago before I tore the stang apart. Soon it will be even worse:D


Supra
.920 RT
2.306 60 Ft.
13.271 1/4 Mi.
110.81 MPH

Me
.470 RT
1.847 60Ft
12.647 1/4mi (New Best on Dr's)
109.49 1/4mi (New Best MPH)

First Finish 1.074

20LbsBoost,

You have no clue...

So you think these cars are all slow dyno queens...




Top 50 IRS MKIV Supras





8.39@166 Paul Efantis Bullish Racing/MSP Auto/TH350 All turbo and BFG Drag Radials!!!! WOW


8.90@163 Nero Titan Motorsports Stock 6 Speed All turbo!!!!!Video


8.98@154 Dusty Womack MVP/Powerhouseracing Auto


9.36@148 Dan Willie Batlground Engineering Auto, No Nitrous All turbo!!!!!


9.48@148 Albert Diaz 3722 pounds!!!!!


9.54@144 Larry Prebis Sound Performance Auto 9.54 Video


9.54@147 Joel Tazman


9.57@150 Ara Arslanian Bullish Racing Videos here


9.57@147? Marko D. Sound Performance Auto Daily Driver!!!!

* 9.78@155 Veilside of Japan Sequential on Drag Radials


9.81@154 SW Turboimports/Performance Motorsports 9.81 Video 6 Speed/Full Weight Street Car!!!


9.82@147 Flamed Supra Performance Factory Auto


9.83@139 Humberto Aubi Dynamic Turbo Auto


9.8?@ 144 Vinny Ten Performance Factory


9.93@140 Kean Wang Boostlogic/Performance Motorsports on Drag Radials!!!


9.91@144 Jarret H. Powerhouse Racing(Red car) Auto 9.91 video


9.96@137 Dana Westover Virtual Works Racing 74mm turbo,TH400,AEM Full weight


9.96@145 Matt Miller 6 Speed/No Nitrous/Full Weight Street car!!!


9.98@137 Toyomoto/Lujan Motorsports


9.98@118 Ben Blalock Powerhouse Racing(Silver Car) Auto ESPN Video


9.99@146 Byron Stewart Titan Motorsports 9 second run


10.01 @ 139.27 Mph Anthony Melber 6 speed/ Motorsports Performance


10.02@147 Rhys Millen UPRD


10.09@143 Saad Saad Suprastore


10.10@131 Billy Cha Street


10.15@132 Henry Nguyen Auto SGP Racing BFG Drag Radials!!!!


10.1?@142 Ryan Woon www.WOTM.com10.1 Video


10.18@142 97 Royal Sapphire Pearl 6spd - WOTM


10.19@144 Jamie Farrer


10.20@136 98 Quicksilver 6spd - WOTM


10.22@133 Al Blaha


10.2@134 Jerry Vodden Sound performance Auto


10.2@133 Mark Cooper Sound Performance Auto 10.3 on BFG's


10.28@141 Brad Daley


10.28@139 Angel Robles Garage Advance


10.29@144 Anthony Melber Motorsports Performance/ Powerhouse Racing


10.383@142 Pete Ibrahim Garage Advance 6 speed


10.39@145 Augie from Tx


10.3@144 Daniel Willie Batlground Engineering 6 Speed Drag Radials


10.40@130 Al Canada South Florida Performance


10.40 @ 132.28 Val Thakore (MSP) on BFG DRS, AUTO/FULL Weight


10.41@139 Guilly Polo on BFG Drag Radials Suprastore


10.41@131 Rickard C. Powerhouse Racing


10.43@133 Mike? Powerhouse Racing


10.44@139 Tripp Tatum


10.44@143 Son Nguyen


10.47@137 Dave Jusko RPS/World Electronics10.47 Video here


10.47@132 Greg Baker Racing Technology Company



10.49@146 Chris Johnson Turboimports/Performance Motorsports


10.5@145 Darren Strunk aka Walser Turboimports/Performance Motorsports


10.52@134 Kean Wang Boostlogic/Performance Motorsports


10.52@135 94 Blk T66 6spd - WOTM


10.53@142 Jesus Rivera Garage Advance


10.53@132 Kirk R. MZM International Auto


10.54@134 94 White T66 6spd - WOTM


10.55@134 Gary Grossman Sound Performance Auto


10.60@136 Jimmy P.


10.66@125 Dave Henry Sound performance Auto


10.68@132 Kristian Maajola


10.69@132 Billy Barr


10.70@135 Dave Andino SpeedCraft Engineering Auto


10.71@136 Shalin Patel


10.72@134 Michael Hadley


10.76@129 Roberto M. Auto Sound performance








And this small list is of 2JZ powered tubbed and pro-import class cars. Cause we all know that no matter what the shell is, it has the heart of the MKIV Supra (in no order)

6.70@207 George Ioannou Bullish Motor Sports Solara Pro

6.76@204 Ara Arslanian Bullish Motor Sports Solara Pro

6.95@202 Grant Downing Venom Tundra pro

7.53@180 Jimmy O'connor Venom Tacoma Pro-Import

7.8@17? Area 51 Lexus Coupe Pro-Import


Modified class

7.80@177 Jimmy O'Connor

8.01@176 Vinny Ten Supra Outlaw

8.17@164 Craig Paisley Supra Outlaw

9.7@144 Stanley Souffant MKIII Quick class



I am not trying to start anything... Just stating facts...

And they have no torque...

Again... no torque...

It just happens that the drag radial event that Dwayne Gutridge (Big Daddy) put on was won by a Supra.

The qualifying................
1.Paul Efantis.....8.490
2.Big Daddy.......8.836
3.Jim Fillipowski..8.867
4.Alex Vrettos.....8.875
5.Troy Pirez........8.884
6.Rick Head........8.895
7.Dan Forcucci....9.073
8.Micheal Dees....9.105
9.Scott Chopin....9.370
10. Dave Rudisell..9.628
11.Paul kientz.....10.256
12.Christina Eldert..10.490
13.James Kursay....10.647
14.Audri Acton.......11.610

BTW... Pauls Supra out 60's Dwaynes Stang, 1.40 to 1.60.

Um what was your point other than to waste space. Do you want to see the top 50 GN's or Mustangs in the world?

Here's a hint, they'd both be faster than your supra.

the majority of newer supra owners only race from a roll. imo roll racing is the dumbest form of drag racing. It shows no skill at all. Though im not doubting that the supras arent fast or dont make power because they obviously do.

I seem to have hit a sore spot here. I think a very high % on the street are dyno queens...yes. You've posted some great performance figures from Supras and I give respect where respect is due but you've posted exceptions and not the norms. It's pretty well known they put out fantastic HP #'s but very poor TQ #'s unless you're willing to dump $10k+ into it. As most everyone knows, high HP and low TQ engines get great top end but will get killed from a dig or 1/4 mile race. This is standard car/racing dogma. I don't think most here would consider a run on the Silver State Classic your typical street race.

Your impressive cars/times don't show HP, TQ figures or vehicle weights. With all or most things being equal A 400HP / 600 TQ car is gonna SMOKE a 1000HP / 400 TQ Supra from a dig or 1/4 mile run every time, although your Supra will trap a much higher speed. That means nothing when racing to the checkered flag. It's equivalant to the same argument I hear from LS1 guys. They flatter themselves with their HP #'s and trap speeds though it means nothing when you've beaten them to the end of the race. It's pretty funny reading posts saying "wow, you've got a 1000HP 12 second Supra huh?" :D

I'm not trying to start anything here either but facts is facts. I've seen videos of Supras trap at 120+mph but only run a 12 second 1/4 mile and I've already explained why.

I personally don't have much use for racing from a 60mph roll, maybe you do, nor do I believe many here do. If that's your bag so be it. Stop-light-wars is the name of the game 'round here. I think it's pretty foolish to run on the street where the Supra is at it's potential. Unless you've got A LOT of dough wrapped up into it I wouldn't recommend running against a Turbo Buick from a slow roll or dead dig. It takes a $1,000 or less to get any Turbo Regal (or especially '89 Turbo T/A) into mid-low 12's.

For your enjoyment here's an 8 second run of an exceptional V-6 Grand National with full interior and weighing in at 3600lbs.: http://www.ws6transam.org/video/bamford_incar_video.mpg Can you say TORQUE?

Don't go pokin' street fights with a high TQ Mustang or Turbo Buick unless you got the goods to back up a run from 0-60 (which most Supras don't). The beautiful thing about the Turbo Buick is you can't tell which ones are modified and the ones that aren't.

In short.....I'd be wise not to race a Turbo Supra from a 50+mph roll and I it'd be wise for your typical Turbo Supra not to run a Turbo Buick or Mustang from a red light or slow roll.

No sore spot hit... It just gets kind of old when some one who doesn't own a Supra, or even know much about them goes on to a public forum and pretends he is an expert on them. You haven't even presented one fact or shown any proof to back up your statements. Your ignorance is showing through...

I'll race anyone from a dig or a roll.

There is no such thing as a 1000 hp/ 400 ft lb Supra. Any Supra with a thousand horsepower is going to make atleast 700 ftl bs of torque, hell I made almost 475 ft lbs of torque when my car was BPU and only had 420ish rwhp, and I had less than $1200 into my car to get that kind of performance.
I ran a 12 second flat 1/4 mile time with less than 500 rwhp and my car was full weight and on drag radials. I know others who have run 10's with not much more power. I am sure there are a few people who have ran 12's with 600-700 rwhp because they are on 19 or 20 inch wheels with a 300 pound stereo system in the back. One thousand rwhp cars are few and far between and the majority of them are cars that you do not want to mess with, from a dig or a roll.
I don't go around laughing at the T/B guys for posting about geting their asses handed to them by Nissan Maximas and WRX's, so don't bust on a Supra for runing 12's because you know most T/R's run in the 14's.

BTW Supra's don't run 14's stock...

Car & Driver 3/93 '93 Supra TT 6spd:
0-60mph: 4.6 sec
0-100mph: 11.1 sec
0-150mph: 29.6 sec
Quarter mile: 13.1 @ 109
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: N/A
Braking 70-0: 160 ft
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: .95g
Slalom: N/A
Top speed: 160 mph

The best reliable stock times posted for a Turbo Buick were...

86-87 GN 0-60 in 4.9 and the 1/4 in 13.9

87 GNX 0-60 in 4.5 and the 1/4 in 13.3

Those times were VERY respectable for a car that is almost 20 years old. I back my statements up with facts and proof (sources). You should try that some time.

Ok, you're right and I'm wrong. Is that what you wanna hear? :rolleyes: Your facts are going to be highly scrutinized on this board since they are obviously highly extraordinary at best for the Supra community.

You've presented nothing more than I...just typed or copied/pasted words. Your "proof" is no more evidentary value than those I've posted you eagerly criticize and discredit.

I guess everything I've read on Supra and other forums are incorrect. You and your buddies must have the only ones that transcend all others.

My comparison using a 1000HP / 400 TQ Supra was hypothetical and not to be taken literally. My point was the HP vs. TQ comparison most Supra owners boast about.

If you insist, I can dig up videos and posts of exactly what I'm talking about, but we both know it'd be a waste of time since you don't believe what I'm trying to say. It's just what's typical from the Supra community as a whole.

I can't (and apparetnly others on this board) believe you're denying the fact they're NOT legendary for great 1/4 mile times, high torque, 60 foot times or ET's. They ARE known for high HP, great trap speeds and acceleration from 60mph rolls....this is common knowledge amongst street automotive enthusiasts. This isn't even getting into the area of durability which is a whole other issue.

You seem to take this personally but it is not personal. Just what's known in the street racing community.

Hey, lookie here....the first post I could dig up:
"I can understand alot of imports wanting to run from a roll because I also own a Twin Turbo Supra that at the moment is running mid-12's@ 114-116mph , my 60ft. times suck to say the least 2.2-2.3 ( aarrgg terrible!!), my current project 86 GN has yet to run at the track due to tranny slipping bad. My first GN an 87 back in 1993 ran 11.40's@ 117mph w/ 1.58 60 ft."

DAAAAMMM!!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Who cares.

You talk a lot of smack for having a car that barely breaks a hundred mph in the 1/4 mile. :p

BTW...I don't take this personal.

I just think it's funny as **** that you don't have a clue. :p :p :p

I have seen Supras pull 2.4 60 foot times and I have seen some Supras pull 1.4 60 foot times, same thing for Grand Nationals, so whats your point???

Yup, here goes the trap speed mantra typical of a Supra owner. Apparently my points regarding getting to the finish line 1st went in one ear and out the other.

You're attempt to degrade this into a personal battle isn't going to work and I choose to take the high road and not participate. I have in no way disparaged your personal car but you want to attack mine for no reason other than the obvious. I'm attempting to discuss facts and performance of the Supra community as a whole but you seem to dodge this by getting personal. Your colors are showing.

Again, you claim not to take it personally but your words say otherwise. You attack my personal car(s) but claim it's not personal....hmmmmm, the epitome of contradictions.

Apparently tunnel vision of the type of performance car the Supra has you ignoring what the street enthusiast community has seen for a long time.

Enjoy your high HP / low TQ or high speed / high ET cars actually are....

You'd think a logical and non-personal debate or discussion would be the order of the day. Apparently that's not possible in this case. I bid you adieu sir (that's goodbye).

By the way, the sky really is blue.

T88H34GSUPRA Does your dick reach your anus?

I've known the information that 20LbsBoost posts to be nothing if not reliable. Its pretty funny to me to hear you saying exactly what we have come to expect from the Supra community and then claiming your totally different.

Beyond that, do you have any idea what you can get a 420/420 Mustang to run? Here's a clue, a whole lot faster than your 12 second car.

Furthermore, this is a MUSTANG board. If you want to argue about the Supra/GN question (which we will all side with the GN's) take it someplace else.

You must have been holding on to the best stock times anyone has every gotten out of a Supra just to post them here. Having seen a few, not plenty, but a few stock ones run, I have never seen one run faster than 13.9x's stock. Car & Driver must have had some real professional drivers back in 93', cause they can't drive for crap now. I did a little research and the fastest stock time I could find any car magazine could get was a 13.64 at 105, a far cry from a 13.1 at 109. Most published reports had them in the low 14's at 104-105. And ever publication I found had the top speed at 155. How did Car & Driver get the extra 5 mph, magic?

Deuce,

It was a 12 second car several years ago... It's somewhat faster now. :D

I have no problem with 20LbsBoost, except he tries to make blanket statements about all Supras being bad out of the hole when that is just not so.

I will admit that a single turbo 6 speed Supra is no real threat to some Grand Nationals out of the hole, unless the Supra has a two step or nitrous. If the Supra is properly set up it can pull mid 1.4 60 foot times. There are lots of Supras pulling 2.0's, but there are also quite a few pulling sub 1.6's on a radial tire.

BTW... I have a lot of respect for Grand Nationals, one of my all time favorite cars.

91GTturbo,


Stock Supra TT Performance:


Car & Driver 3/93 '93 Supra TT 6spd:
0-60mph: 4.6 sec
0-100mph: 11.1 sec
0-150mph: 29.6 sec
Quarter mile: 13.1 @ 109
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: N/A
Braking 70-0: 160 ft
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: .95g
Slalom: N/A
Top speed: 160 mph

Car & Driver 3/97 '97 Supra TT 6spd:
0-60mph: 4.8 sec
0-100mph: 11.7 sec
0-150mph: N/A
Quarter mile: 13.4 @ 107
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: N/A
Braking 70-0: 149 ft
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: N/A
Slalom: N/A
Top speed: 158 mph

Car & Driver 8/97 '97 Supra TT 6spd:
0-60mph: 5.0 sec
0-100mph: 12.3 sec
0-150mph: 41.6 sec
Quarter mile: 13.6 @ 105
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: N/A
Braking 70-0: 154 ft
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: .88g
Slalom: 68.4 mph
Top speed: 160 mph

Motor Trend 3/93 '93 Supra TT 6spd:
0-60mph: 5.4 sec
0-100mph: N/A
0-150mph: N/A
Quarter mile: 13.5 @ 106.6
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: 109 ft
Braking 70-0: N/A
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: .96g
Slalom: 66.5 mph
Top speed: N/A

Motor Trend 7/93 '93 Supra TT 6spd:
0-60mph: 4.9 sec
0-100mph: N/A
0-150mph: N/A
Quarter mile: 13.4 @ 106.7
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: 109 ft
Braking 70-0: N/A
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: .98g
Slalom: 68.5 mph
Top speed: 159 mph

Motor Trend 7/95 '95 Supra TT 6spd:
0-60mph: 5.1 sec
0-100mph: N/A
0-150mph: N/A
Quarter mile: 13.5 @ 106.9
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: 115 ft
Braking 70-0: N/A
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: .92g
Slalom: 69.0 mph
Top speed: N/A

Motor Trend 5/97 '97 Supra TT 6spd:
0-60mph: 5.1 sec
0-100mph: 12.3 sec
0-150mph: N/A
Quarter mile: 13.6 @ 106.0
Standing mile: 34.7 @ 149.7
Braking 60-0: 115 ft
Braking 70-0: N/A
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: .94g
Slalom: 68.9 mph
Top speed: 158 mph

Road & Track 3/93 '93 Supra TT 6spd:
0-60mph: 5.0 sec
0-100mph: 11.8 sec
0-150mph: N/A
Quarter mile: 13.5 @ 107
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: 120 ft
Braking 70-0: N/A
Braking 80-0: 225 ft
Skidpad: .98g
Slalom: 66.0 mph
Top speed: N/A

Road & Track 2/94 '94 Supra TT 6spd:
0-60mph: 5.3 sec
0-100mph: 12.6 sec
0-150mph: N/A
Quarter mile: 13.7 @ 105
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: 122 ft
Braking 70-0: N/A
Braking 80-0: 208 ft
Skidpad: .90g
Slalom: 65.4 mph
Top speed: 155 mph

Average Supra TT 6spd test results:
0-60mph: 5.0 sec
0-100mph: 12.0 sec
0-150mph: N/A
Quarter mile: 13.5 @ 106.6
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: 115 ft
Braking 70-0: N/A
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: .94g
Slalom: 67.5 mph
Top speed: 158 mph

Best Supra TT 6spd test results:
0-60mph: 4.6 sec
0-100mph: 11.1 sec
0-150mph: 29.6 sec
Quarter mile: 13.1 @ 109
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: 109 ft
Braking 70-0: 149 ft
Braking 80-0: 208 ft
Skidpad: .98g
Slalom: 69.0 mph
Top speed: 160 mph

Worst Supra TT 6spd test results:
0-60mph: 5.4 sec
0-100mph: 12.6 sec
0-150mph: 41.6 sec
Quarter mile: 13.7 @ 105
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: 122 ft
Braking 70-0: 160 ft
Braking 80-0: 225 ft
Skidpad: .88g
Slalom: 65.4mph
Top speed: 155 mph


Supra Twin Turbo (Auto Trans.):

Car & Driver 3/97 Supra TT Auto:
0-60mph: 5.3 sec
0-100mph: 12.6 sec
0-150mph: N/A
Quarter mile: 13.7 @ 105
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: N/A
Braking 70-0: 163 ft
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: .91g
Slalom: N/A
Top speed: 154 mph

Motor Trend 5/94 Supra TT Auto:
0-60mph: 5.6 sec
0-100mph: N/A
0-150mph: N/A
Quarter mile: 13.8 @ 105.5
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: 112 ft
Braking 70-0: N/A
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: .93g
Slalom: 68.8 mph
Top speed: 155 mph

That, I think, is the longest post I ever seen!

Who would have thought you could see GN and Supra guy fighting on a Mustang board??

Have you noticed that none of the Mustang guys are getting involved? Pretty neet.......

Yea, it's pretty crazy.

I agree I'm making blanket statements on this topic because I can't list every Supra's time with every mod possible. As I've stated many times it's known average Turbo Supras run a high 13 / low 14 second 1/4 mile with high trap speeds which is the "norm". Can they be made to run 10 second 1/4 miles...sure, damn near anything can with the right amount of mods = $. That being said the typically modified Supra will put out much higher HP vs. TQ which equates to great trap speeds and poor ET's. Have we heard this before?

Does our Supra fan have an exception....maybe, but is that typical?...NO. Has he posted his mods or the $ he paid to get such speed?

I'm not here to state "My Turbo Buick runs blah, blah, blah and I'm tired of everyone bashing Turbo Regals". They are what they are and I'm not in denial. It's quite cheap and easy to get a T/R 2-3 seconds lower than stock. I'm a realist and know a Turbo Buick runs high 13's - low 14's in stock form...so what (the Turbo T/A is quite another story). Again, it is what it is just as most same era Mustangs ran similar performance #'s which lead to the huge rivalry we see in the GN vs. Mustang. I have no ego to inflate. Can I find Mustang or T/R performance #'s that buck the norm as our Supra friend...absolutely. He's debating on flawed logic.

I believe this debate (on my side and sour argument from the other) is prudent on this forum since the Mustang and GN are American muscle car legends.

His #'s from performance magazines [again] buck the typical #'s seen by real people, by real Supras driven by typical drivers at typical tracks. Again our Supra friend is using exceptional examples in an attempt to prove his case.

Can I find such examples from performance magazines to prove the T/R or Mustang will do the same, absolutely. What does that prove? Must I poke around on Supra forums and find what Supra owners are posting about their own cars' stock performance #'s? Let's not get to to the point of actual humiliation.

By the way, I love how our Supra friend edited one of his posts after I pointed out his lack of information, then entered it in at a later time.

I will not be baited into "bench racing" which is what's taking place. Simple facts are; on average in the REAL WORLD, a stock Turbo Supra from 0-60 vs. a stock Turbo Buick or Mustang will get it's aŝŝ handed to it due to the Toyota's lack of low end torque, though the 1/4 mile run would be close. The same race from a 50mph roll will will have the Supra pulling away due to higher HP. This isn't a difficult concept to grasp.

I guess with everything being debated I have a few simple yes/no questions:

1. Doesn't the typical Turbo Supra have a reputation for much higher HP#'s than TQ#'s thus resulting in high trap speeds, "average" ET's and 2.0-2.2+ 60 foot times?

2. A Turbo Supra typically needs fairly expensive and somewhat numerous mods to reliabily lower these #'s short of adding nitrous?

With all these pro-stock Supras running around I wonder why they don't own all the street races :confused: Maybe they do if you're in the F&F crowd in Kalifornia.

I'm pleased you edited this post after many subsequent replies.

Your "facts and proof" are nothing more than your own typed words which are hardly facts or proof.

You forgot to mention the Turbo T/A. Apparently your factual Supra #'s don't measure up to the older and heavier GM F-Body in any catagory except 1/4 mile trap speed which is what I've credited the Supra for all along. Even the top speed on every test you've posted comes up short. That's considering the reliability of your #'s. BTW, there's a difference between a Turbo Buick and Turbo Regal. I love it when Supra guys spout off about something they know absolutely nothing about. :rolleyes:

Source for Supra facts.


http://www.i-supra.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc...1&m=5916082111


Turbo TA #'s

Performance
(source: Pontiac Motor Division)



performance: 0-60: 5.5 sec
1/4 mile: 13.5 sec
60-0: 139'
roadholding: 0.86g
weight/hp: 13.4:1

BTW... The top speed of the Supra is closer to 180 mph in stock form. The car has a speed limiting device from the factory that cuts back on fuel and retards timeing at 159 mph. You only need to pull a fuse to bypass this device.

so basically you made a copy of a copy? Whoopdidiy freaking do.:rolleyes:

wow!, lol
I dont see why a supra wouldnt have torque, turbo's do make torque, but what do i know.
The supra's around here all mostly been converted to single turbo automatic's, some fast, some not so fast, most bpu's in the high 12's @ 110 on drag radials, there was a guy from austin "sw" with a black supra that went 9.9 @ 150+ the car was on e-bay for a while, but the cash it took to go that fast, i could probaly go low 8's in the stang:)

What is BPU?

Here's my 2 cents I have seen a stock Supra except for a boost controller go 11.86 @116mph.

And I have seen a bone stock one run a 13.9 @102mph.

I have lost to the one thats runs a 13.9 from a roll he beat me pretty good.

I like em,

Basic Performance Upgrade, Stage 1 gives them something like 460 hp and goes all the way up to like 1200 hp.

Ummm....yea. :rolleyes:

Well then I guess your own "facts" as posted aren't quite facts since this new info contradicts your previously posted performance mag info. Why don't you copy and paste your indisputable proof like your other facts.

If I did "XXX" over stock it'd do "XXX"....pleeease....:o This logic is stupefying.

SUPRA FACTS??!!! BWAHAHAHA

So you're quoting Supra performance from a Supra message board forum, but quote Turbo T/A performance from Pontiac Motor Division. I see...... Love the logic.... Must I point out the idiocy of any of this?

Your attempt to distract from the topic won't work. The fact is Turbo Supras put out MUCH more HP vs. TQ (on average) which equate to high 1/4 mile trap speeds and mediocre ET's unless you invest big bucks....in the real world that is.

They don't make great 1/4 mile cars and will go like hell from a 60mph roll which is pretty useless 'round here. And yes, they make great dyno queens.

Actually I got the Turbo T/A info from the site listed in your signature.

1989 Pontiac 20th Anniversary Turbo T/A

For all I know you could have made it up and put that the source was Pontiac Motor Division.

By the way a Stock Supra TT puts out 320hp and 315 ft lbs of torque. I don't see any big difference there.

Just so you don't sound like a complete idiot in future discussions... You should learn the difference between horsepower and torque and what the signifigance of each one is in relationship to how a car goes down a drag strip.



Definition of Horsepower and Torque:

One HP is defined as being 33,000 foot pounds per minute of energy. This means ONE Horsepower is sufficient to move ONE POUND 33,000 feet in one minutes time. Or it can also mean that it can move 33,000 POUNDS one single foot, in one minute. It just depends on how you do the math.

This is true because regardless of gearing (or mechanical advantage), one horsepower is always one horsepower, gearing never changes that. This is because Horsepower is a combination of FORCE, WORK, and TIME.

FORCE, WORK, TIME: If you were to try and push a 2,000 pound car, with it's parking brake engaged, with all your strength, which lets say is 100 pounds of FORCE. You are applying force, but not doing any work (because the car won't move). If you were to release the brake, and now beable to push the car with your 100 pounds of force for 1 single foot, then you have now done WORK. If it took you 1 MINUTE to do that work, then you have done work at the rate of 100 foot-pounds per minute. If you were able to move the car 2 feet in one minute with your 100 pounds of force, the you have done the work at the rate of 200 foot-pounds per minute.

Now we need to apply this to automotive use. In the automotive world, force and work are delivered in a rotating form (such as the crankshaft, driveshaft, or wheels). This TWISTING force is defined at Torque. In torque, ONE FOOT-POUND is the force needed to suspend a one pound weight, horizontally from a point one foot from the fulcrum (center of the rotation). If this point was moved to 10 FEET from the fulcrum, then that one pound weight has gained mechanical advantage, it now requires TEN FOOT-POUNDS too support that weight. This would be the same twisting force as a TEN pound weight being suspended from the original 1 foot distance from the center of rotation.

To see the effects of mechanical advantage for yourself, hold your arm out horizontally, and suspend a 5 pound weight mid way from your arm, now move that weight to your hand, it feels twice as heavy, because it has gained mechanical advantage (leverage).

But understand, that 5 pound weight hanging from your arm is exerting no more power as before, it is gaining leverage, but in return giving up how quickly it can perform actual work. Lets say that 5 pound weight was applying enough force that the weight could move 1 foot in one second. If that one foot of movement occurred at the middle of your arm, it would cause your arm to have rotated more, than if the one foot distance was only at the tip of your arm. That's mechanical advantage, and how the "Gearing" works in your car, both the transmission and axle. To gain speed (work rate), you have to sacrifice force. But we will come back to this later.

We were talking about torque, and how it is "twisting" force. Now Horsepower would be a combination of Torque, and how quickly torque can be delivered, which is a combination of work and the time it took to perform that work, which in this case can be expressed at RPM. So now we have two things, Torque (our force), and RPM (the rate the force can be delivered, Revolutions Per Minute). Horsepower is simply the culmination of these two things. Here is how Horsepower is calculated from Torque and RPM:

Torque times RPM divided by 5252 = Horsepower

(One interesting note, on any dyno chart for an engine, the torque and horsepower numbers always cross at 5252 rpms, this is because both 5252s simply cross each other out as they are divided into one another.)

Now we know what Torque and Horsepower are, which is all fine and dandy, but how does this make my car go. Believe it or not, the only thing that causes the car to accelerate is TORQUE, it is that force that pushes your car. Without that force, your car would just sit there, it doesn't matter if the engine is spinning at 15,000 RPMs, if it has no force behind those rotations, it would instantly stall once the clutch was engaged, and the car would go nowhere. Your simply delivering NO FORCE very quickly. But with torque, you have force to push the car, and give some real power to those 15,000rpms.

But also, if you had 1,000 foot-pounds of torque available to you, but no way to deliver it (RPM) then the car would still just sit there. You have to have both to get any work done, and that's what horsepower is.

Since torque is what actually causes acceleration, in any given gear, the car will always accelerate hardest at the torque peak, not the horsepower peak. And this also means that because of mechanical advantage, you car will always accelerate hardest (if traction allows) in the lowest gear. Because the gear reduction is giving the wheels more torque. But if you want to go faster than the engine will allow, then you upshift to a higher gear, and therefore give up some of your mechanical advantage in exchange for a higher work rate. This happens every time you up shift.

And that is why it's good to have lots of horsepower. Because the horsepower peak is when you have the highest culmination of Torque (force) and RPM (rate of work). The higher horsepower means that you can supply the rear wheels with lots of torque, and you can deliver it at a high rate. And not have to upshift as early and loose some of that torque. So while an engine with say 500ft-lbs of peak torque at 2000rpms, but only 250hp by 4000rpm, will pull harder in first gear (All things equal except engine) than an engine with only a peak of 400ft-lbs of torque @ 4000rpm. But if that lower torque engine has a higher horsepower output, then it will start to pull away more and more as speed increases. Lets say that smaller engine puts out a peak of 400hp at 7000rpm. So now lets see what we have...

Smaller Engine 400hp @ 7000rpm 400ft-lbs @ 4000rpm
Big Engine 250hp @ 4000rpm 500ft-lbs @ 2000rpm



Ok, now lets chart out the power bands: RPM 1k 2k 3k 4k 5k 6k 7k
Smaller Engine 200ft-lbs (38hp) 270ft-lbs (103hp) 350ft-lbs (200hp) 400ft-lbs (305hp) 370ft-lbs (352hp) 350ft-lbs (399hp) 300ft-lbs (400hp)

Big Engine 380ft-lbs (72hp) 500ft-lbs (190hp) 400ft-lbs (228hp) 328ft-lbs (250hp) redline



Now as you can see the Big Engine has a distinct advantage up to 3000rpms, after that, the smaller one surpasses it. The Big Engine also wont even rev past 4000rpm. So what does this mean? We'll, if both these engines were in the same type of car, with the same gearing. Then if they both raced side by side, the big engined car would easily pull away off the line, and would continue to pull till he reached a little over 3000rpm. At this point, the smaller, but higher output engine would just begin to make its real power. By 4000, the big engine car has to up shift to 2nd gear, and the resulting change in gearing means that even though it is back at it's torque peak, it is actually putting less torque to the ground than the smaller engine car, which since it can rev higher, is still in 1st gear, and enjoying more gear reduction. And as they keep up shifting and going faster, the difference will only get more pronounced.

An interesting note however. Is that because the smaller engine is higher revving, it can run more gear reduction. Meaning that if the smaller engine was allowed to take advantage of more gear reduction, it would have stayed right beside the big engine car right from the launch, and once the smaller engine has hit it's torque peak, it is putting out more peak torque to the ground than the big engine that puts out more torque at it's engine, but does not have as much gear reduction.

Lets what what gear reduction does to both the cars, shall we. I will display the total gear reduction, which would be the gear ratio of whatever gear you are in in the transmission, multiplied by the gear ratio of the final drive in the differential. I will also include the "gearing-up" caused by the diameter of the drive tires/wheels. Which in this case is 24 inches in total diameter, which means the radius is only 1-foot, so our force at the contact patch, is the same as the wheels torque. So below I will be displaying the actual force being applied at the tires contact patch. Ground Speed 6mph 12mph 17mph 23mph 29mph 35mph 41mph
Smaller Engine 200ft-lbs @ 1000rpm 270ft-lbs @ 2000rpm 350ft-lbs @ 3000rpm 400ft-lbs @ 4000rpm 370ft-lbs @ 5000rpm 350ft-lbs @ 6000rpm 300ft-lbs @ 7000rpm

Force at ground, With 12.3:1 total gear reduction 2460lbs of force 3321lbs of force 4305lbs of force 4920lbs of force 4551lbs of force 4305lbs of force 3690lbs of force

Big Engine 200ft-lbs @ 570rpm 390 ft-lbs @ 1100rpm 480ft-lbs @ 1700rpm 470ft-lbs @ 2300rpm 410ft-lbs @ 2900rpm 360ft-lbs @ 3400rpm 328ft-lbs @ 4000rpm

Force at ground, With 7.0:1 total gear reduction 1400 lbs of force 2730lbs of force 3360lbs of force 3290 lbs of force 2870lbs of force 2520lbs of force 2296lbs of force


You can see how the gearing really helped out the smaller engine. Now the force you see shown in the chart, is what is actually causing the car to accelerate, that's the actual force coming in contact with the ground and pushing the car.

Now if we average the lbs of force listed in the chart, the Big engine comes out at an average of 2638lbs (in first gear). But the well geared, higher HP, Small motor, shows a whopping average of 3936lbs. And the average output has a more direct effect on acceleration than just peaks numbers, which may only remain at that peak for a very short period. So now you can see how that smaller engine, with more HP, but less torque, can really lay down the smack on the bigger torquier engine.

So in summary, Torque is twisting force (cause of acceleration), RPM is work rate (Allows Speed), and Horsepower is the culmination of both (Torque times the rate it is delivered).


Have a nice day. :)

OMG!....you've absolutely confirmed the fact you're DEEP in the F&F crowd. You don't have neons under your car do 'ya??

You keep your high HP / low TQ engines and theory with high trap speeds and so-so ET's and I'll stick to the opposite. You'll have faster speeds at the finish line but I'll be there 1st. Apparently you don't understand the fact a high HP / low TQ engine isn't a good quarter-miler. Low torque is going to result in very poor 60' times, poor 330' times then the HP will come in making up for the loss, but it's too little too late....race is over. Get it?

Most don't run the Silver State Classic or NASCAR superspeedways. Gee, I wonder why NASCAR engines put out so much HP than TQ?

Don't go away mad, just go away....

And you are actually going to get there first in a car that can only muster a 12.93 ???

PLEASE!!!! :p :p