raced a Supra Twin Turbo

[T88H34GSUPRA]

It just happens that the drag radial event that Dwayne Gutridge (Big Daddy) put on was won by a Supra.

The qualifying................
1.Paul Efantis.....8.490
2.Big Daddy.......8.836
3.Jim Fillipowski..8.867
4.Alex Vrettos.....8.875
5.Troy Pirez........8.884
6.Rick Head........8.895
7.Dan Forcucci....9.073
8.Micheal Dees....9.105
9.Scott Chopin....9.370
10. Dave Rudisell..9.628
11.Paul kientz.....10.256
12.Christina Eldert..10.490
13.James Kursay....10.647
14.Audri Acton.......11.610

BTW... Pauls Supra out 60's Dwaynes Stang, 1.40 to 1.60.

[The Deuce]

Um what was your point other than to waste space. Do you want to see the top 50 GN's or Mustangs in the world?

Here's a hint, they'd both be faster than your supra.

[MidNiteBlu 5.0]

the majority of newer supra owners only race from a roll. imo roll racing is the dumbest form of drag racing. It shows no skill at all. Though im not doubting that the supras arent fast or dont make power because they obviously do.

Originally posted by T88H34GSUPRA
20LbsBoost,

You have no clue...

So you think these cars are all slow dyno queens...

I seem to have hit a sore spot here. I think a very high % on the street are dyno queens...yes. You've posted some great performance figures from Supras and I give respect where respect is due but you've posted exceptions and not the norms. It's pretty well known they put out fantastic HP #'s but very poor TQ #'s unless you're willing to dump $10k+ into it. As most everyone knows, high HP and low TQ engines get great top end but will get killed from a dig or 1/4 mile race. This is standard car/racing dogma. I don't think most here would consider a run on the Silver State Classic your typical street race.

Your impressive cars/times don't show HP, TQ figures or vehicle weights. With all or most things being equal A 400HP / 600 TQ car is gonna SMOKE a 1000HP / 400 TQ Supra from a dig or 1/4 mile run every time, although your Supra will trap a much higher speed. That means nothing when racing to the checkered flag. It's equivalant to the same argument I hear from LS1 guys. They flatter themselves with their HP #'s and trap speeds though it means nothing when you've beaten them to the end of the race. It's pretty funny reading posts saying "wow, you've got a 1000HP 12 second Supra huh?"

I'm not trying to start anything here either but facts is facts. I've seen videos of Supras trap at 120+mph but only run a 12 second 1/4 mile and I've already explained why.

I personally don't have much use for racing from a 60mph roll, maybe you do, nor do I believe many here do. If that's your bag so be it. Stop-light-wars is the name of the game 'round here. I think it's pretty foolish to run on the street where the Supra is at it's potential. Unless you've got A LOT of dough wrapped up into it I wouldn't recommend running against a Turbo Buick from a slow roll or dead dig. It takes a $1,000 or less to get any Turbo Regal (or especially '89 Turbo T/A) into mid-low 12's.

For your enjoyment here's an 8 second run of an exceptional V-6 Grand National with full interior and weighing in at 3600lbs.: http://www.ws6transam.org/video/bamford_incar_video.mpg Can you say TORQUE?

Don't go pokin' street fights with a high TQ Mustang or Turbo Buick unless you got the goods to back up a run from 0-60 (which most Supras don't). The beautiful thing about the Turbo Buick is you can't tell which ones are modified and the ones that aren't.

In short.....I'd be wise not to race a Turbo Supra from a 50+mph roll and I it'd be wise for your typical Turbo Supra not to run a Turbo Buick or Mustang from a red light or slow roll.

[T88H34GSUPRA]

No sore spot hit... It just gets kind of old when some one who doesn't own a Supra, or even know much about them goes on to a public forum and pretends he is an expert on them. You haven't even presented one fact or shown any proof to back up your statements. Your ignorance is showing through...

I'll race anyone from a dig or a roll.

There is no such thing as a 1000 hp/ 400 ft lb Supra. Any Supra with a thousand horsepower is going to make atleast 700 ftl bs of torque, hell I made almost 475 ft lbs of torque when my car was BPU and only had 420ish rwhp, and I had less than $1200 into my car to get that kind of performance.
I ran a 12 second flat 1/4 mile time with less than 500 rwhp and my car was full weight and on drag radials. I know others who have run 10's with not much more power. I am sure there are a few people who have ran 12's with 600-700 rwhp because they are on 19 or 20 inch wheels with a 300 pound stereo system in the back. One thousand rwhp cars are few and far between and the majority of them are cars that you do not want to mess with, from a dig or a roll.
I don't go around laughing at the T/B guys for posting about geting their asses handed to them by Nissan Maximas and WRX's, so don't bust on a Supra for runing 12's because you know most T/R's run in the 14's.

BTW Supra's don't run 14's stock...

Car & Driver 3/93 '93 Supra TT 6spd:
0-60mph: 4.6 sec
0-100mph: 11.1 sec
0-150mph: 29.6 sec
Quarter mile: 13.1 @ 109
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: N/A
Braking 70-0: 160 ft
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: .95g
Slalom: N/A
Top speed: 160 mph

The best reliable stock times posted for a Turbo Buick were...

86-87 GN 0-60 in 4.9 and the 1/4 in 13.9

87 GNX 0-60 in 4.5 and the 1/4 in 13.3

Those times were VERY respectable for a car that is almost 20 years old. I back my statements up with facts and proof (sources). You should try that some time.

Originally posted by T88H34GSUPRA
No sore spot hit... It just gets kind of old when some one who doesn't own a Supra, or even know much about them goes on to a public forum and pretends he is an expert on them. You haven't even presented one fact or shown any proof to back up your statements. Your ignorance is showing through...

I'll race anyone from a dig or a roll.

Ok, you're right and I'm wrong. Is that what you wanna hear? Your facts are going to be highly scrutinized on this board since they are obviously highly extraordinary at best for the Supra community.

You've presented nothing more than I...just typed or copied/pasted words. Your "proof" is no more evidentary value than those I've posted you eagerly criticize and discredit.

I guess everything I've read on Supra and other forums are incorrect. You and your buddies must have the only ones that transcend all others.

My comparison using a 1000HP / 400 TQ Supra was hypothetical and not to be taken literally. My point was the HP vs. TQ comparison most Supra owners boast about.

If you insist, I can dig up videos and posts of exactly what I'm talking about, but we both know it'd be a waste of time since you don't believe what I'm trying to say. It's just what's typical from the Supra community as a whole.

I can't (and apparetnly others on this board) believe you're denying the fact they're NOT legendary for great 1/4 mile times, high torque, 60 foot times or ET's. They ARE known for high HP, great trap speeds and acceleration from 60mph rolls....this is common knowledge amongst street automotive enthusiasts. This isn't even getting into the area of durability which is a whole other issue.

You seem to take this personally but it is not personal. Just what's known in the street racing community.

Hey, lookie here....the first post I could dig up:
"I can understand alot of imports wanting to run from a roll because I also own a Twin Turbo Supra that at the moment is running mid-12's@ 114-116mph , my 60ft. times suck to say the least 2.2-2.3 ( aarrgg terrible!!), my current project 86 GN has yet to run at the track due to tranny slipping bad. My first GN an 87 back in 1993 ran 11.40's@ 117mph w/ 1.58 60 ft."

[T88H34GSUPRA]

DAAAAMMM!!!!

Who cares.

You talk a lot of smack for having a car that barely breaks a hundred mph in the 1/4 mile.

[T88H34GSUPRA]

BTW...I don't take this personal.

I just think it's funny as **** that you don't have a clue.

I have seen Supras pull 2.4 60 foot times and I have seen some Supras pull 1.4 60 foot times, same thing for Grand Nationals, so whats your point???

Originally posted by T88H34GSUPRA
DAAAAMMM!!!!

Who cares.

You talk a lot of smack for having a car that barely breaks a hundred mph in the 1/4 mile.

Yup, here goes the trap speed mantra typical of a Supra owner. Apparently my points regarding getting to the finish line 1st went in one ear and out the other.

You're attempt to degrade this into a personal battle isn't going to work and I choose to take the high road and not participate. I have in no way disparaged your personal car but you want to attack mine for no reason other than the obvious. I'm attempting to discuss facts and performance of the Supra community as a whole but you seem to dodge this by getting personal. Your colors are showing.

Originally posted by T88H34GSUPRA
BTW...I don't take this personal.

I just think it's funny as **** that you don't have a clue.

Again, you claim not to take it personally but your words say otherwise. You attack my personal car(s) but claim it's not personal....hmmmmm, the epitome of contradictions.

Apparently tunnel vision of the type of performance car the Supra has you ignoring what the street enthusiast community has seen for a long time.

Enjoy your high HP / low TQ or high speed / high ET cars actually are....

You'd think a logical and non-personal debate or discussion would be the order of the day. Apparently that's not possible in this case. I bid you adieu sir (that's goodbye).

By the way, the sky really is blue.

[The Deuce]

T88H34GSUPRA Does your dick reach your anus?

I've known the information that 20LbsBoost posts to be nothing if not reliable. Its pretty funny to me to hear you saying exactly what we have come to expect from the Supra community and then claiming your totally different.

Beyond that, do you have any idea what you can get a 420/420 Mustang to run? Here's a clue, a whole lot faster than your 12 second car.

Furthermore, this is a MUSTANG board. If you want to argue about the Supra/GN question (which we will all side with the GN's) take it someplace else.

[91GTturbo]

Originally posted by T88H34GSUPRA
BTW Supra's don't run 14's stock...

Car & Driver 3/93 '93 Supra TT 6spd:
0-60mph: 4.6 sec
0-100mph: 11.1 sec
0-150mph: 29.6 sec
Quarter mile: 13.1 @ 109
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: N/A
Braking 70-0: 160 ft
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: .95g
Slalom: N/A
Top speed: 160 mph

You must have been holding on to the best stock times anyone has every gotten out of a Supra just to post them here. Having seen a few, not plenty, but a few stock ones run, I have never seen one run faster than 13.9x's stock. Car & Driver must have had some real professional drivers back in 93', cause they can't drive for crap now. I did a little research and the fastest stock time I could find any car magazine could get was a 13.64 at 105, a far cry from a 13.1 at 109. Most published reports had them in the low 14's at 104-105. And ever publication I found had the top speed at 155. How did Car & Driver get the extra 5 mph, magic?

[T88H34GSUPRA]

Deuce,

It was a 12 second car several years ago... It's somewhat faster now.

I have no problem with 20LbsBoost, except he tries to make blanket statements about all Supras being bad out of the hole when that is just not so.

I will admit that a single turbo 6 speed Supra is no real threat to some Grand Nationals out of the hole, unless the Supra has a two step or nitrous. If the Supra is properly set up it can pull mid 1.4 60 foot times. There are lots of Supras pulling 2.0's, but there are also quite a few pulling sub 1.6's on a radial tire.

BTW... I have a lot of respect for Grand Nationals, one of my all time favorite cars.

[T88H34GSUPRA]

91GTturbo,


Stock Supra TT Performance:


Car & Driver 3/93 '93 Supra TT 6spd:
0-60mph: 4.6 sec
0-100mph: 11.1 sec
0-150mph: 29.6 sec
Quarter mile: 13.1 @ 109
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: N/A
Braking 70-0: 160 ft
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: .95g
Slalom: N/A
Top speed: 160 mph

Car & Driver 3/97 '97 Supra TT 6spd:
0-60mph: 4.8 sec
0-100mph: 11.7 sec
0-150mph: N/A
Quarter mile: 13.4 @ 107
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: N/A
Braking 70-0: 149 ft
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: N/A
Slalom: N/A
Top speed: 158 mph

Car & Driver 8/97 '97 Supra TT 6spd:
0-60mph: 5.0 sec
0-100mph: 12.3 sec
0-150mph: 41.6 sec
Quarter mile: 13.6 @ 105
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: N/A
Braking 70-0: 154 ft
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: .88g
Slalom: 68.4 mph
Top speed: 160 mph

Motor Trend 3/93 '93 Supra TT 6spd:
0-60mph: 5.4 sec
0-100mph: N/A
0-150mph: N/A
Quarter mile: 13.5 @ 106.6
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: 109 ft
Braking 70-0: N/A
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: .96g
Slalom: 66.5 mph
Top speed: N/A

Motor Trend 7/93 '93 Supra TT 6spd:
0-60mph: 4.9 sec
0-100mph: N/A
0-150mph: N/A
Quarter mile: 13.4 @ 106.7
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: 109 ft
Braking 70-0: N/A
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: .98g
Slalom: 68.5 mph
Top speed: 159 mph

Motor Trend 7/95 '95 Supra TT 6spd:
0-60mph: 5.1 sec
0-100mph: N/A
0-150mph: N/A
Quarter mile: 13.5 @ 106.9
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: 115 ft
Braking 70-0: N/A
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: .92g
Slalom: 69.0 mph
Top speed: N/A

Motor Trend 5/97 '97 Supra TT 6spd:
0-60mph: 5.1 sec
0-100mph: 12.3 sec
0-150mph: N/A
Quarter mile: 13.6 @ 106.0
Standing mile: 34.7 @ 149.7
Braking 60-0: 115 ft
Braking 70-0: N/A
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: .94g
Slalom: 68.9 mph
Top speed: 158 mph

Road & Track 3/93 '93 Supra TT 6spd:
0-60mph: 5.0 sec
0-100mph: 11.8 sec
0-150mph: N/A
Quarter mile: 13.5 @ 107
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: 120 ft
Braking 70-0: N/A
Braking 80-0: 225 ft
Skidpad: .98g
Slalom: 66.0 mph
Top speed: N/A

Road & Track 2/94 '94 Supra TT 6spd:
0-60mph: 5.3 sec
0-100mph: 12.6 sec
0-150mph: N/A
Quarter mile: 13.7 @ 105
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: 122 ft
Braking 70-0: N/A
Braking 80-0: 208 ft
Skidpad: .90g
Slalom: 65.4 mph
Top speed: 155 mph

Average Supra TT 6spd test results:
0-60mph: 5.0 sec
0-100mph: 12.0 sec
0-150mph: N/A
Quarter mile: 13.5 @ 106.6
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: 115 ft
Braking 70-0: N/A
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: .94g
Slalom: 67.5 mph
Top speed: 158 mph

Best Supra TT 6spd test results:
0-60mph: 4.6 sec
0-100mph: 11.1 sec
0-150mph: 29.6 sec
Quarter mile: 13.1 @ 109
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: 109 ft
Braking 70-0: 149 ft
Braking 80-0: 208 ft
Skidpad: .98g
Slalom: 69.0 mph
Top speed: 160 mph

Worst Supra TT 6spd test results:
0-60mph: 5.4 sec
0-100mph: 12.6 sec
0-150mph: 41.6 sec
Quarter mile: 13.7 @ 105
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: 122 ft
Braking 70-0: 160 ft
Braking 80-0: 225 ft
Skidpad: .88g
Slalom: 65.4mph
Top speed: 155 mph


Supra Twin Turbo (Auto Trans.):

Car & Driver 3/97 Supra TT Auto:
0-60mph: 5.3 sec
0-100mph: 12.6 sec
0-150mph: N/A
Quarter mile: 13.7 @ 105
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: N/A
Braking 70-0: 163 ft
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: .91g
Slalom: N/A
Top speed: 154 mph

Motor Trend 5/94 Supra TT Auto:
0-60mph: 5.6 sec
0-100mph: N/A
0-150mph: N/A
Quarter mile: 13.8 @ 105.5
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: 112 ft
Braking 70-0: N/A
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: .93g
Slalom: 68.8 mph
Top speed: 155 mph

[gofastmercury]

That, I think, is the longest post I ever seen!

Who would have thought you could see GN and Supra guy fighting on a Mustang board??

Have you noticed that none of the Mustang guys are getting involved? Pretty neet.......

Originally posted by gofastmercury
That, I think, is the longest post I ever seen!

Who would have thought you could see GN and Supra guy fighting on a Mustang board??

Have you noticed that none of the Mustang guys are getting involved? Pretty neat.......

Yea, it's pretty crazy.

I agree I'm making blanket statements on this topic because I can't list every Supra's time with every mod possible. As I've stated many times it's known average Turbo Supras run a high 13 / low 14 second 1/4 mile with high trap speeds which is the "norm". Can they be made to run 10 second 1/4 miles...sure, damn near anything can with the right amount of mods = $. That being said the typically modified Supra will put out much higher HP vs. TQ which equates to great trap speeds and poor ET's. Have we heard this before?

Does our Supra fan have an exception....maybe, but is that typical?...NO. Has he posted his mods or the $ he paid to get such speed?

I'm not here to state "My Turbo Buick runs blah, blah, blah and I'm tired of everyone bashing Turbo Regals". They are what they are and I'm not in denial. It's quite cheap and easy to get a T/R 2-3 seconds lower than stock. I'm a realist and know a Turbo Buick runs high 13's - low 14's in stock form...so what (the Turbo T/A is quite another story). Again, it is what it is just as most same era Mustangs ran similar performance #'s which lead to the huge rivalry we see in the GN vs. Mustang. I have no ego to inflate. Can I find Mustang or T/R performance #'s that buck the norm as our Supra friend...absolutely. He's debating on flawed logic.

I believe this debate (on my side and sour argument from the other) is prudent on this forum since the Mustang and GN are American muscle car legends.

His #'s from performance magazines [again] buck the typical #'s seen by real people, by real Supras driven by typical drivers at typical tracks. Again our Supra friend is using exceptional examples in an attempt to prove his case.

Can I find such examples from performance magazines to prove the T/R or Mustang will do the same, absolutely. What does that prove? Must I poke around on Supra forums and find what Supra owners are posting about their own cars' stock performance #'s? Let's not get to to the point of actual humiliation.

By the way, I love how our Supra friend edited one of his posts after I pointed out his lack of information, then entered it in at a later time.

I will not be baited into "bench racing" which is what's taking place. Simple facts are; on average in the REAL WORLD, a stock Turbo Supra from 0-60 vs. a stock Turbo Buick or Mustang will get it's aŝŝ handed to it due to the Toyota's lack of low end torque, though the 1/4 mile run would be close. The same race from a 50mph roll will will have the Supra pulling away due to higher HP. This isn't a difficult concept to grasp.

I guess with everything being debated I have a few simple yes/no questions:

1. Doesn't the typical Turbo Supra have a reputation for much higher HP#'s than TQ#'s thus resulting in high trap speeds, "average" ET's and 2.0-2.2+ 60 foot times?

2. A Turbo Supra typically needs fairly expensive and somewhat numerous mods to reliabily lower these #'s short of adding nitrous?

With all these pro-stock Supras running around I wonder why they don't own all the street races Maybe they do if you're in the F&F crowd in Kalifornia.

Originally posted by T88H34GSUPRA
BTW Supra's don't run 14's stock...

Car & Driver 3/93 '93 Supra TT 6spd:
0-60mph: 4.6 sec
0-100mph: 11.1 sec
0-150mph: 29.6 sec
Quarter mile: 13.1 @ 109
Standing mile: N/A
Braking 60-0: N/A
Braking 70-0: 160 ft
Braking 80-0: N/A
Skidpad: .95g
Slalom: N/A
Top speed: 160 mph

The best reliable stock times posted for a Turbo Buick were...

86-87 GN 0-60 in 4.9 and the 1/4 in 13.9

87 GNX 0-60 in 4.5 and the 1/4 in 13.3

Those times were VERY respectable for a car that is almost 20 years old. I back my statements up with facts and proof (sources). You should try that some time.

I'm pleased you edited this post after many subsequent replies.

Your "facts and proof" are nothing more than your own typed words which are hardly facts or proof.

You forgot to mention the Turbo T/A. Apparently your factual Supra #'s don't measure up to the older and heavier GM F-Body in any catagory except 1/4 mile trap speed which is what I've credited the Supra for all along. Even the top speed on every test you've posted comes up short. That's considering the reliability of your #'s. BTW, there's a difference between a Turbo Buick and Turbo Regal. I love it when Supra guys spout off about something they know absolutely nothing about.

[T88H34GSUPRA]

Source for Supra facts.


http://www.i-supra.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc...1&m=5916082111


Turbo TA #'s

Performance
(source: Pontiac Motor Division)



performance: 0-60: 5.5 sec
1/4 mile: 13.5 sec
60-0: 139'
roadholding: 0.86g
weight/hp: 13.4:1

[T88H34GSUPRA]

BTW... The top speed of the Supra is closer to 180 mph in stock form. The car has a speed limiting device from the factory that cuts back on fuel and retards timeing at 159 mph. You only need to pull a fuse to bypass this device.

[The Deuce]

Originally posted by T88H34GSUPRA
Source for Supra facts.


http://www.i-supra.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc...1&m=5916082111


Turbo TA #'s

Performance
(source: Pontiac Motor Division)



performance: 0-60: 5.5 sec
1/4 mile: 13.5 sec
60-0: 139'
roadholding: 0.86g
weight/hp: 13.4:1

so basically you made a copy of a copy? Whoopdidiy freaking do.