Results from Race with Supercharged Trans Am.
 

Well we raced this weekend. He had just put 4.30's in it. We line up the guy flagging us points at me then points at him he takes off (I'm like what the ****) well I chase him in first catch him second start to go to third he pulls a car on me. Then he couldn't pull me no more. Oh Well!! Went to talk to him tell him it was a good race. I say to him "Pretty close race tell 3rd". He says "Yeah well I spun alot". Forget the fact he left early. Well anyways I'm a little pissed at his attitude, but I didn't let him get the best of me. I know if he wouldn't have jumped it would have been close, but maybe next time. I did race a bunch of other cars, but I tell about those in another thread.
Wished I would have beat him, but you can't win them all. Just most of them!! Right!

good try ,to bad he cheated.

Good race....for some reason 99.4% or the GM boys out there (.6% for the cool ones here ;)) are arseholes when they don't like the outcome....or if they see a oval with a smile. Good job again

Tell him you'll race him from a roll, no head start for him.

That's street racing. You chase, you race.

You should have sat still and let him come back to line up again. It is very common for people to leave early on purpose.

It takes an awful lot of power to take back 2 cars out of the hole.

I agree with exgmguy. If the guy leaves early, just sit & wait for him to come back. Then he looks a little foolish.

The guy flagging you (if he's a neutral party) should agree with you that he left early.

See if he wants to line them up again!

The guys are right. Get someone else to flag you guys off and race again. If he takes off, just wait until he comes back.

exgm, is right.. he took off, so you stay and line em' up again. Makes him look like an a$$.

We want a re-match! Go make things right.. ;)

I hate excuses such as "I was spinning alot."..."I missed a gear"....."I Launched bad".

When one street races, it isnt just Machine Vs. Machine, its Driver Vs Driver. Granted we all get bad launches every now and then, and we do miss a gear here and there. But to use the excuse and drive badly on a regular basis...Geshh.. One of those people that think racing is just Stomping the gas to the floor and holding it there.

It sounds like your the better driver, and he's just some Dumb A$$ with a fast car, that thinks the car makes him a good driver.

I'd rather brag about my ability to drive, than my cars ability to be fast. Well :D I like to brag about both when possible....:D

When someone looses a race to me and throws me one of those excuses I usually just say. "Ya know, that sounds like a personal problem, ya still lost." "It aint my fault ya dont know how to drive."

Well I'm not to worried about it. I started to race him again, but the cops came. That was the last time I saw him that night. The reason that was the last time I saw is because his car messed up. I don't know how, but I know it did. I saw him last night riding around in his big bad V6 firebird. ROFLMAO Some friends told that it messed up when we were leaving. Well he might of beat me, but my FORD is still running, and I went on to race (2) 96 Cobras one was built bored .20 over with every bolt on you could imagine, 95 Z28, 94 GT, 2001 SS, 2000 Z28, and an S2000. Which I won all of those so I was still pretty happy with the weekend.

FORD RULES!!! ;)

Nice Kill. His car must be seriously screwed up. To be supercharged, have a 350, ported everything and 4.30 gears and not to be pulling on you with traction! Damn! I bet he did screw up his car, cuz something is seriously wrong!

Nice running cobra you got though.

Skyler

What year trans-am was this? If it was an LS1 that car would probably be making well over 400hp to the tires. Even a blown Lt1 'should' have completely destroyed you, spinning or not.
not calling B.S or anything, just want more details about what kind of car is was, or what year.
later
Dan
95 rio red cobra #2021

I was thinking the same thing, Supercharged LS1 would give one hell of a fight. But I believe it was a SC V6. Witch would explain a lot. MM&FF had a SC V6 running in the 12's in one issue.

sounds like a messed up race, with him leaving early.
could you tell if he was spinning bad?
something doesn't sound right, either with his car or his driving, it would be really hard to chase down a sc'd ta that you admit left the line early.
most street races are won on the launch, but since he jumped the launch and techmically should have the faster car (sc'd lt1 or ls1, can't remember your origanal post) it seems wierd that you caught then stayed with him.
i would take him to the track and see what he can do.

SSuuurrre.......

On the street if he spun...... but he took off first and you catched him?:rolleyes:

AH, s/c'ed firebird, now that does change things alot :D I was just going by the title, 'supercharged trans am.' so was it a v6 firebird you raced, or a trans am?

Dan

It was an LT1!! I don't care what you say about the destroying me. If my friend can download on the internet I will get him to download it. Not a very good quality job but you can see through second side by side.

No!! I raced the the Trans Am. I saw him MONDAY night with his firebird that he has to drive around when he f***** up his TRANS AM. He messed up his something on his front axle or something.

Well I don't see the big deal is about I should get blown away. I raced a another freakin LT1 the same night just later when it was a small group of people. He said he wanted some the Cobra. This guy has never seen me run. Well we run and I SMOKED him by about 7-8 car lengths at least. He had a few bolt ons. He would have needed a supercharger to keep up. I think the LS1's are great!! LT1's on so great.

That's how it happened. He took off then I took off. He claims he spun alot, but I don't think he did maybe some. Well I don't have anything to gain by lying. All my GM friends were even laughing at him because that was the best he could do. Well anyways believe me or don't believe me doesn't matter to me. :p
I thought we were all on the same side.

Later

I dunno...I have a Hi-Tech magazine with a supercharged 97 SS, 95 Firehawk, 93 Z28, 93 Trans Am, and a 95 S351R.

I thought the conditions were bad, but the Saleen had the mph it should. He ran a 12.1@122. The SS ran a 13.1@109, the Z ran a 13.3@106, the trans am ran a 12.9@109 and the Firehawk ran a 12.7@111. That isn't very impressive. They all had 8 psi blowers, bud the fastest could only muster a 111??? I heard rumors about LT-1's not responding well to boost. I guess so.

Thanks SaleenGTS!!! I am not impressed at all by this Trans Am. I cross the traps @104-5 and I have only ran twice in the quarter. My runs were no good, but not making excusses I just know that I can do better than that. I'm going back as soon as I can. I will see what I can do when I go back.

Well a blown Firebird could take a close-to-stock Cobra, but the driver is the be-all and and end-all. I took an LT1 Camaro when my '95 GT was completely stock (not that it is modified now :)). Some might say that is unlikely, but I did it.

I think it is all in the driver. Good kill.

sounds like the guy you raced needs a better mechanic to work on his car. too many people think just because you bolt on the a sc that you done, no need to tune it after for peak power :confused:
even if you went by the slowest time quoted by saleen gts, it would be pulling you by the end of 1/4 (higher trap speed), put that together with his early start and you should not have caught him. but since you did nice job!!!
i would be laughing at this guy too if he he was talking smack before the race :p

I caught him in first because I come out of the hole hard. This guy has even complemented me on how hard I launch. It's the only compliament, but none the less. I gave I friend of mine that has a 96 Cobra mods; 4.10's, T/A, and few other things. Well I gave him a two car head start and had him by a 1/2 a car before we hit second.
GONZO99TA how does that T/A run in the quarter? What are your mods.

last time i ran was back in aug at kilkare in ohio. i managed a 13.5@105 on my usual 2.2* 60ft. my car is 100% stock. when i run i don't even bother playing with tire pressure or removing things from the car. i just want to see what it can do in true street form. it's in storage for the winter now, while i work on my blazer. if i have any money left by spring i may start some mods on it. nothing to outrageous though. probably just exhaust, lid, some nitto's (my tires are pretty close to bald now) maybe some of the free mods.

GONZO - Kilkare is a long way from Montana! Did you like the track? Many folks here in Columbus say that it is a faster track than National Trail Raceway (near Columbus). What are your thoughts? (I'm looking for a 12! :D )

SaleenGTS - I have heard the same rumors about the LT-1's not responding well to boost too! Weird if you ask me. One would think that with 275 out of the gate + 8 lbs of boost would = low, low 12's @ ~115 or so??? I dunno know?

CobraConv99 - Sounds like you have one fast Cobra! Nice job. :)

Take care guys,
E

302 lx eric
the track itself is real nice, not sure if it is much faster than other tracks though. most people there claim better times than what they were running there. of course most of that is due to aug heat.
yeh, it's quite the drive from here. but the track out here sucks (everything except for the 1/4 mile strip itself is gravel. no prep which equals 0 traction (was lucky to cut a 2.5 60ft on street tires, everybody runs slicks for some reason :confused: ) i usually make it out that way to visit freinds in the cinn. area and go to the trans am nationals every year. then continue the drive into philly to visit more family and friends.
nothing like driving cross country in a trans am!:D

GONZO99TA That's pretty good! Get you some Nitto's and I bet you can pull low 13's. I don't blame you that's the way I run except I do let air pressure out of the tires. (gotta have some traction, I even do that street racing.)

302 LX Eric Thanks man!! I have always loved the Cobra's I have wanted one since they started making them. Now that I finally have one I am really happy with it.

By the way that is the first I have heard about the boost thing. Oh well I guess learn something everyday. I just knew his car wasn't all that fast. :D

Later

It's relatively hard to get either an LT1 or an LS1 to run well with boost. Their high compression isn't "boost friendly", and many LS1 guys have damaged motors to prove it. There are some that are making great power and have been running well for quite awhile, but in general, they encounter lots of problems when trying to run any more than 5-6psi. Even then, problems are abundant.
5-6psi on an LT1 is worth about 350-375rwhp. 5-6psi on an LS1 is worth 375-400+rwhp with a good tune.
These cars respond amazingly well to juice, and IMO, that is the best way to go fast in them. A good running head/cam car will hit mid-11's with tire and 10's are a button away.
S.

I would seriously contest the claim that 5-6psi of a standard supercharger is gonna get anywhere near 350rwhp from an LT-1. An LT-1 puts down, what, about 230-240rwhp stock? Adding 110rwhp with 5-6psi isn't gonna happen on that thing. That's 130hp at the crank. Now, 350 at the crank I'd believe.

The stock 5.0 also responds like *** to boost. A standard supercharger will get you about 10hp per 1psi.

I agree almost completely with Snorman. I'll post this link for the heck of it. http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/.../appguide.html

What surprised me is that the LT1 is only 9hp off of the LS1, though it is running a little more boost. Are you sure about the 10.5 compression on the LT1, Kell?

FWIW, it ounds like you out drove this guy for the kill. Congrats. Im sure you embarrassed him pretty good.

As for a SC'd LT1 trapping 105 mph? Sounds like a tuning or a traction issue. I trap 104mph stock in my 97 SS. Something is off there. Not doubting you, I wasnt there. A SC'd LT1 should trap around 115mph. The stock compression ratio on theese motors is 10.5:1, so they dont respond well if they arent tuned correctly. There is alot to it. Sounds like this guy has a "untouchable attitudes". Doesnt do the fbody name any good.

BTW, I havent seen a SC'd run in person, only on mpegs or video. I have seen 3 LS1's run. I saw a guy run a 12.2 spinning though 330' and almost into the eighth before pedalling and hooking.

For stock LT1 dyno numbers, most Z/28's put down anywhere from 250 rwhp up to 265. Once again, in my SS I laid down 282 rwhp stock. Thats not bad for an LT1. A SC'd should toss down in the upper 300's (close to 385-400) with a bigger fuel pump and ignition.

Be happy you can drive. It will get you many surprise victories. Keep the mods comin to make sure you can back it up too. :)

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The link that was posted listed a T trim Vortech at 7psi to make 330rwhp. That's a far cry from 5-6psi and 350-375rwhp. I'm just pointing out the little stuff here.

For anybody who would like to argue that a 10.5:1 compression engine with iron heads is a good combination to run a S/C on, quit posting on technical subjects.

Most LT1's trap 100-102 or so. In a 3400lb car, that's about 280-300hp. Again, nothing set in stone. 230-250rwhp is what that equates to. 265rwhp is about 320hp at the crank or so, and while I'd believe an SS or WS6 could put that down, a 282rwhp stock LT1 would equal 340hp stock. The SS got a cold air induction package, ported manifolds, and an optional exhaust system. While I'd be inclined to believe it's possible a really well running SS would put down 340hp, that's about what an LS1 will put down, and the LT1 has a powerband that is better suited to a hole shot. So if the two engines are matched in power and the LT1 is better on the low end, why are the LS1's sooooo much faster?

I pull the LT1's all the way through 3rd gear with my 2.73's (120mph or so). I wouldn't even want to try to pull an LS1 there. I would do it, if I was losing, but I'd shut down before then if I was ahead. The LS1 routinely traps 4mph faster than an LT1. I don't know where all the extra power is coming from.

ok.... care to elaborate 1bad89? The rolled eyes don't really tell me anything. Have you seen a LS1 run more than 6#s of boost? I'd really like to know. I was thinking of adding more compression to my engine and leave the blower alone instead of adding more boost to a low compression engine. Am I mising something here??

Funny how you can add a blower to 281ci with DOHC and be close to the 500hp mark, when you add a blower the the LS1 you are just passing the 400hp mark. Something has got to give and that is either boost or compression(the way I see it).

First off, these motors are aluminum head engines. I have seen more than one of these LS1's with 9psi on stock internals. Its all in the tuning man. It CAN be done. Both of them are dail drivers, and one has had the whizzer on for a year and a half.

As far as the LT1 vs/ the LS1........the LT1 has a mean TQ curve way down low. I peaked out at 311 rwtq at 2050 rpm. The LS1 has a gradual increase. Plus the LS1 makes it power on the top. It redlines in the 6200 rom range stock, as to where the LT1 is at 5750.

I am speaking from first hand experience here.

Where did someone get 500 horse on a stock 4.6?

Link me please.

Thanks HP Freak, I appreciate the info though I already knew the LT1 had alumium heads.. had the 5.0 come with good aluminum heads it have been running neck and neck with the LT1. The LT1 and LS1 are totally different engines. Someone running 9#s of boost on an LS1 has some serious tuning.. you can't deny that.

You are right about the stock cobra with a blower not being 500hp though, I did exaggerate, thanks for pointing that out(lets all be honest here:)) Its only 464 hp with a stock cobra and a blower. Not that far off of the 5-6 blown ls1 with 418 hp:). Of course you could add a cooler to that LS1 and bring it up to 470hp.. Adding a cooler to a cobra is well... yet to bedetermined. If we're gonna talk mods, lets talk mods:D The LS1 is fast and I for one respect that.. But lets for a moment respect that the DOHC engine is beyond the LS1 in technology.. Its a class above a LS1. Its hand built, the block is built in France, the name of the guys who built it are imprinted on the valve covers all it really needs is forged pistons to be unstoppable.

Rick; Glad to see this isnt turning into a flame war. Lets keep it that way. :)

As for the Cobra turning 464hp, I still must see that. I have seen 2 2001's and a 2002 Cobra dyno, and the most I saw at the wheels was 290. So if you are talking 464 rwhp here, something is wrong. That kinda of hp gain is only seen with other bigger mods (ie. heads, blower cam, etc).

As for my bud with the 98' LS1, he has a Vortech blower with the aftercooler. He is the one running 9 psi. He had it dyno tuned, which basically consisted of adjusting his air/fuel mix, and his timing advance. Thats it. I can try to contact him to get his dyno numbers. To be truthful I dont have any idea what they were.

And for the engine differences; you are correct, the DOHC Cobra motors are unique in that aspect. You have to give credit to GM for updating a pushrod motor to stay ahead of the new modular wave brought by Ford. Each of these motors earn respect in different ways. To be honest with you, I am happy to see the later 4.6's running closer in their battle with the f-body's. You know as well as I do the f-body has dominated since 93. Just like the Fox body had its own before then. I have all kinds of respect for the newer Cobras, and even slightly modded older ones.

Like I said in my previous post, link me to your "464 hp " figure on a STOCK motor. I am normally not a disbeliever, but you got me here.

Welcome HP Freak! I agree that its good to see some good ole' fashioned hp talk without the flaming.


I believe rbatson was talking about Cobras with blowers, not without. I think the norm is about 425+rwhp on a car like mine 96-98, where the newer 99+ Cobras are around 450+rwhp. Not sure of the boost levels but I'm assuming they have around 6-7 and the higher power levels are hit with 9lbs+.

Everybody and their dad is waiting for the FR-500 heads/valvetrain and intake to come out together as a package. With these mods, we're expecting around 375rwhp n/a. I can't wait.. :D

Thanks for the welcome 96SNAKE. I hope you and others see my level-headedness. All is fair in horsepower and racing. :D

I know he was talking about the Cobra being blown. I was just curious where he had seen those numbers. Thats quite a signifigance in power from just a SC. Thats where my question was intended for. It sounds more like flywheel numbers to me.

The numbers should be nearly equal if anything, while comparing the LS1 to the DOHC SVT motor. While the LS1 has been known to have a few freaks (ie. that SS doing a 12.96 stock), the variance in the hand built Cobra motor is the same, if not more of a chance of having different numbers.

I am just wanting to know his base for info, I am in no way trying to start a flame. ;)

Ok, I see your point but I speak the truth. No links for you but go over to the modular forum at www.corral.net and either do a search or look around. There is a boatload of blown Cobras making tons of power there. You'll see what I mean..

The DOHC Cobra just loves boost. The weakness is the "hyperpathetic" pistons but with adequate fuel even these hold up pretty well. There isn't a whole lot out there for engine mods for us Cobra guys YET. We can upgrade pistons and rods and maybe bore the engine out .20 over and some even have strokers but these are rare cases rather than the norm. It costs big money to tear into these engines :( and I know it is close for the LS1's too. Not too sure on the cost of LT1 build ups but I'm sure it isn't cheap..

HP-Freak

If you want to see some stock and close to stock 4.6 4V cobras putting down that kind of HP goto

www.jmschips.com

Theres a good amount of them there to look at.

Skyler

Skyman- Linky no worky:(

96SNAKE-"hyperpathetic" - LMAO. I hear ya.

Guys, I am not a disbeliever, I just dont see tossing on the blower with those numbers. With other goodies sure. Let me do that search thingy. Thanks guys.
:)

I'm looking for that jmschips site too.. No wait, I found it

www.jmschip.com

Like I said, if the Cobras are like mine or really all they need is an Xpipe or Hpipe and their in business with those numbers with a blower. If you want completely bare bones stock down to the filter and no little mods then you are talking 380 to 400rwhp with blower at 6lbs. I'm not sure about the 99+. Figure another 15/20hp or so. The stock h pipe with cats is the biggest killer of power on the DOHC's, especially with blowers..oh boy.

Those numbers sound more realistic for an otherwise stock motor. ;)

It 's all relative to what the particular person means by all stock motor.. I consider my motor stock, as it has never been touched. I just never considered pulleys, h/xpipes or mass air meters to be motor related. I don't think the blower guys can run pulleys so that's out but everything else is open to them..

I guess it goes back to my 5.0 days. Now there was a car that I would refer to as "not stock motored". The heads, intake, pistons and crank etc were worked. :)

I'm off to the Eagles MB.. :D

Now this makes ALOT more sense to me.. you didn't mention the aftercooler before..

The 464 figure is indeed a flywheel figure and it is on a 99+ cobra with the 'blower kit' which comes with a chip and fuel pump (as does the ls1 kit). I already posted the link.. http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/.../appguide.html

I'm not flaming you at all... :) I also have respect for the ls1, it is good ole pushrod power. There is alot of potential in the cobra though, it shocked the heck out of me when I saw what it could do with a blower. I could push the red line past 7k with the cobra(n/a) I had, it flows really well and a blower magnifies this fact. Though I have hear and seen what a blower can do to the dohc engine, the pistons are the culprit. Why, Oh Why did they give this car a forged crank but not forged pistons?!

Aluminum Heads
 

That was my mistake. I had tried to remember, and aluminum did ring a bell, I just couldn't find any information on it quick enough, so I decided to post a worst case scenerio.

Running a 10.5:1 engine with 9psi of boost is asking for trouble, even if you CAN do it. You can do a lot of things, but not everybody is going to be lucky.

Thats why I came here........to learn. I had no clue that the DOHC motor could be so responsive. :eek:

To be fair though, you are comparing a V-2 and a V-9 blower. Thats at least 3 psi difference there. I would like to see the rating with the same blower on the LS1.

Still impresses me. That is alot of potential out of that motor for sure.

Most of your higher end blower kits for the LT1/LS1 include and aftercooler/intercooler. This is a must due to the compression. I've noticed alot of the Mustang guys don't have alot of info on intercoolers. With the same amount of boost you can make up to 100rwhp more by using a intercooler.

The Vortech kit for the LS1 is a 9psi kit complete with aftercooler. Rwhp vs Rwhp the DOHC motor is going to put out better numbers on boost but the LS1s have a decent curve to them. I watched a LS1 with incons at 6psi running traps of 125mph at Cecil about a month ago. The only other mod on the car was a clutch. He was running high 11s on 2.4 60's (stock tires).

Also, on a L98 motor I went from 100mph to 109mph with less than 4psi of boost. A car with a restrictive intake but good cubes and ehaust will gain a lot off of small boost. This forces air through the restrictive intake. If your exhaust is restrictive too than you will not see as much of a gain.

The LS1s love boost but in their stock configuration they can not handle a lot of it. Due to the fewer head bolts than the LT1s they suffer from lifting heads and blowing gaskets like the 5.0s.

They are both SQ trim blowers, S for the trim level and Q for the quiet S trim. I really don't know what the V-2 or V-9 mean specifically but the V stands for Vortech and I'm under the impression that the -2 and -9 are just some sort of production number(I could be wrong). The A-trim was thier first blower and it is the V-1 A.

You will notice that the cobra has more boost and I believe that this is due to the compression in the engines. We want reliable combos and the cobra can handle alittle more reliably than the ls1 because the cobra only has 9.85:1 compression. You add an aftercooler and you can add more boost because it cools the charge and the heat is what damages an engine(burnt pistons and/or blown gaskets).

Then again, maybe it has something to do with the extra 1000rpm the cobra has on the top end.. but more boost is always just a pulley away:D