Rice burner vs. Muscle car

[*Steeda90GT*]

Originally posted by The Deuce


Well, according to lotus uk, the car weight 1663lbs. With a 200bhp Honda motor, that's a pretty good power to weight. Throw in 3.96 gears, and double wishbone track set up, and it would give the R a run for its money on a circut.

This idea is nothing new, look at the classic Porsches, 550, 356, etc. Light 'underpowered' cars running rampant on the international scene. I'm rooting for the Cobra as much as anyone here, I've just seen too many high end European GT's to doubt their performance.

Wow, 1663lbs!!! Ok, now I understand....I thought they were well into the 2,000 range. I sure as hell wouldnt want to drive in a 1663lb car everyday though. That thing must sound like a tin can skateboard(probably just as safe as one too)

[The Deuce]

Originally posted by *Steeda90GT*

Wow, 1663lbs!!! Ok, now I understand....I thought they were well into the 2,000 range. I sure as hell wouldnt want to drive in a 1663lb car everyday though. That thing must sound like a tin can skateboard(probably just as safe as one too)

I got to get up close to a couple at the LA Auto Show this year. The cars are amazing. Almost pure race car.

[inferno]

Just because it is light doesn't mean it isn't safe. Sure if it were to get into a collision with a behemoth SUV things would be bad, but then again, an SUV would put a hurtin on most cars on the road today. The final drive for the ITR powered Lotus is 4.40:1 btw. I still don't see why people can't believe the Lotus could beat the Cobra R so here are some numbers for you.

Cobra R
Weight = 3400lbs
Hp = 385
Hp to weight ratio = 1:8.95

ITR Elise
Weight = 1700lbs
Hp = 200
Hp to weight ratio = 1:8.5

Very similar but the Elise has the advantage. Another thing that probably has an effect is aerodynamics. The Elise has a lot less frontal surface area and probably has a lower Cd, but I can't be 100% certain of that.

[95mustanggt]

Originally posted by inferno
.... Another thing that probably has an effect is aerodynamics. The Elise has a lot less frontal surface area and probably has a lower Cd, but I can't be 100% certain of that.

You might also argue that the Cobra R's spoilers would give it better down force and therefore corner at higher speeds...

[inferno]

Originally posted by 95mustanggt


You might also argue that the Cobra R's spoilers would give it better down force and therefore corner at higher speeds...

That is possible as well, but I am sure that the deck wing and the air dam on the Elise aren't there just for show....I consider aerodynamics basically a wash unless someone can produce some Cd numbers and numbers on the downforce created by these vehicles. One more thing to take into consideration is that the Elise is mid-engine which helps with cornering ability.

[95mustanggt]

Originally posted by inferno

.....One more thing to take into consideration is that the Elise is mid-engine which helps with cornering ability.

Very true. There is only one thing you can count on, a car from Lotus is going to have superior handling.

I've read about the Cobra R's dukeing it out, but never read how they fair against other cars. Would be interesting reading.

[98GtPower]

someone mentioned earlier that the cobra r "isn't a drag car" and shouldn't be compared in the quarter mile. but my response to that is that the lotus elise isn't a drag car either. it was designed for the track. and it has tested better in the categories of handling AND speed. and complaining about the resale value of a car is totally like your last defense for the cobra r. if you are a performance enthusiast you shouldn't care about how much you are going to get out of your car, but what you are going to get from putting money in it. I know that I don't put money into my car as an "investment" but as a hobby. I hope the reply about "chicks" was a total joke, because if you are just into racing and cars to get chicks, then you are just a poser anyway. i didn't realize how close minded mustang enthusiasts are. they hate other people because they have four less cylinders, they call them names, and sterotype them(scrawny etc.). that is just sad. mustang is a really great car and i know i love mine, but i dont know about you guys....

[95mustanggt]

Originally posted by 98GtPower
..... i didn't realize how close minded mustang enthusiasts are. they hate other people because they have four less cylinders, they call them names, and sterotype them(scrawny etc.). that is just sad. mustang is a really great car and i know i love mine, but i dont know about you guys....

I think many members here are fairly open minded. But you have to remember 2 things. 1. This IS a mustang site. 98% of the people here love mustangs more than any other car, so when asking them to compare a mustang to any other car be prepared for a bias answer. Try walking into a sports bar filled with say Toronto Maple Leaf fans, no matter how "close minded" you think these guys are there not going to tell you how much better any other team is.

2. I think you get a lot of 4 cyl bashing, because with the rare exception with guy like inferno, most guys don't know jack and are typical "ricers". 4 cyl cars do suck (performance wise) no matter how many magazines call a civic a "street terror" (I did read that in an import mag once), they get there a** handed to them day in and day out at the track. Many serious mustang guys see this all the time, so are they really close minded? Even the knowledgable import guys get sick of this stuff. They know what it takes to get a fast 4 or 6 cylinder car, but they still know how fast an 8 cylinder car can be. They don't talk smack they just try to get there cars faster, and because they aren't retards, most domestic guys will respect there knowledge.

Hope that sheds some light on the subject for you.

[blue00gt]

98GTPower - you accuse us of stereotyping people, but that's what you just did to us with your comment about stang owners being "closed minded". Everyone here is an individual and it looks like some are hypocrites too.

[inferno]

I think that there is a Cobra R racing in the SCCA Gt Championship series as well as a couple racing in another racing series against Panoz´s, Jaguar´s, and Vette´s. Unfortunately, most of the people who bought the Cobra R, bought them as a collector´s item and they will never see the street let alone a track. From a simplicity standpoint(at least for me), if I were going to purchase a vehicle with the sole intent of racing it given the choice between the 3 I mentioned before(Elise, Z06, and Cobra R), I would pick the Elise simply because I know how to work on Honda engines, parts aren´t as expensive as a lot of people think they are for Honda´s, and I know that it would be reliable and fuel effecient should I race the car in long races. In terms of a street car, once again I say Z06 hands down, with the Elise coming in second for the "coolness" factor. You would get a lot of looks with an Elise because not very many people would know what it was and would be curious where any one can create a Cobra R clone....unfortunately, I saw a V6 stang with the Cobra R kit and wing

[95mustanggt]

Originally posted by inferno
... I saw a V6 stang with the Cobra R kit and wing

Oh! When will it all end, GOD, when will it all end...

[Nitrous Al]

I pick up this mag (Sport Compact Car) every once in a while to keep up with what the Import guys are doing. Of course these Import guys wrote the Lotus Elise won, they have to sell magazines. The 1710lbs. Elise with 192rwhp vs. 3590 lbs. Mustang Cobra R with 347 rwhp. The Elise was made for road courses and had shaved racing tires when the Cobra R rode on BFGoodrich g-Force KD street tires. (Don't hold me to it, but I believe the Yokohama A038-R's are racing tires). Sneaky little bastards! The chances of you running into a Lotus Elise in America are slim to none. You have more of a chance of running into a Dodge Viper. Don't worry about that 1710lbs. British skateboard with the Honda B18 motor. If you gave the Cobra R the same tires, I bet it would run better than the Elise!

[inferno]

The tires on the cars are the tires that come when you buy the car. The Yokohama's might have a slight advantage, but maybe not. You are talking like the BFGoodrich g-Force KD street tires are normal everyday use tires. Those are the best tires you can get from BFGoodrich without buying drag radials or full out competition tires that can't see street duty....same thing with the Yokohama's. Then you complain about the Elise being made for road courses....hmmm...last time I checked, the Cobra R was designed for road racing too. Another thing, the chances of running into a REAL 00 Cobra R on the street is probably about the same as running into an Elise. Besides, if you want to get into the what if thing, you can order a supercharged ITR engine when you purchase the Elise from the dealer for a little more and leave no doubt about it at all which car would win. I hope their is no more whining about two cars none of us will probably ever own. Have a nice day.

[Nitrous Al]

Originally posted by inferno
The tires on the cars are the tires that come when you buy the car. The Yokohama's might have a slight advantage, but maybe not. You are talking like the BFGoodrich g-Force KD street tires are normal everyday use tires. Those are the best tires you can get from BFGoodrich without buying drag radials or full out competition tires that can't see street duty....same thing with the Yokohama's. Then you complain about the Elise being made for road courses....hmmm...last time I checked, the Cobra R was designed for road racing too. Another thing, the chances of running into a REAL 00 Cobra R on the street is probably about the same as running into an Elise. Besides, if you want to get into the what if thing, you can order a supercharged ITR engine when you purchase the Elise from the dealer for a little more and leave no doubt about it at all which car would win. I hope their is no more whining about two cars none of us will probably ever own. Have a nice day.

A mid-engine car vs. a front engine car. The Elise was built for road courses. Have fun with your 3 liters of Fury ! I love Import Guys!

[0h n0 5.0]

Originally posted by 98GtPower
I like muscle cars just as much as the next guy....but you guys did read about the stock vs. stock testing of the Lotus(1.8 liter) vs. the Cobra R (5.7 liter)???? The Lotus beat it in ever aspect except drifting and the lotus was a cheaper buy. Did you guys see the video at neon.org of that neon beating a dodge viper? or how about that 88 dodge van that beat the 98 z28?

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keep this in mind, anything will fly if ya throw it hard enough.(
(rock, toaster, pos Neon) but you take a $80,000 an dump it into a sport car and the same amount into a commuter car...you will get your neon handed to you..plus the sports car will probably take the abuse a whole heck of a lot better.

it all has to do with the oe design from the factory. Was a mustang, viper, SS, built for speed, aerodynamics...yes.
was a 1.6 inline 4 plastic jelly bean Neon built to originlly go more than 110 mph..safetly or reliably...no

[*Steeda90GT*]

Originally posted by 0h n0 5.0
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
keep this in mind, anything will fly if ya throw it hard enough.(
(rock, toaster, pos Neon) but you take a $80,000 an dump it into a sport car and the same amount into a commuter car...you will get your neon handed to you..plus the sports car will probably take the abuse a whole heck of a lot better.

it all has to do with the oe design from the factory. Was a mustang, viper, SS, built for speed, aerodynamics...yes.
was a 1.6 inline 4 plastic jelly bean Neon built to originlly go more than 110 mph..safetly or reliably...no

Very well put. This is where ricers and domestics seem to ram their heads though. Ricers just dont understand.

[blue00gt]

To be truthful, I think the Cobra R's suspension is pretty weak for the money - for that price you should be getting a tubular K-member (especially with that heavy motor they needed to lighten up the front) with better than stock geometry, coilovers, etc.
It does pull a full G on stock tires, but I think it could be alot better...

[Dark_5.0]

I would buy the Cobra R over a Lotus anyday. What a car does stock doesnt concern me cause I know it wont stay stock.

Lets do a few bolt ons slap some slicks on them and lets see who wins in the 1/4.

Cobra R all the way Baby!

[98SteedaGT]

Didn't the Cobra R's come with NO A/C?... If so, then Dark I figured you of all people wouldn't want it.. Texas Plains + Summer + No A/C = Mobile Saunna..

I don't know about you, but it's too d*mn hot down here to not have an A/C.. I would understand if it was a vert... but geez, I couldn't drive around in the heat like that.....

[inferno]

Originally posted by Nitrous Al
A mid-engine car vs. a front engine car. The Elise was built for road courses.

Nitrous Al, I say once again that the Cobra R was built with road racing in mind. I didn't make that up, Ford execs said it. They didn't design the car to just run the 1/4 or to even really drive on the street hence the lack of AC and a radio. The airdam and wing were put there for high speed stability on road courses. Both cars were designed for road courses, just Elise decided to use a lighter platform, lighter, less powerful engine and make it mid-engine as most of their cars are. Ford built the Cobra R based on the Mustang platform which dictated that they use a heavier but more powerful engine to make up for the added weight of the chassis and motor. To say that the only cars that are "built for road courses" are mid-engine is just plain ignorant.

Have fun with your 3 liters of Fury ! I love Import Guys!

I plan to have fun with my 3 liters of fury...didn't you read the whole signature?