Rice burner vs. Muscle car
 

I like muscle cars just as much as the next guy....but you guys did read about the stock vs. stock testing of the Lotus(1.8 liter) vs. the Cobra R (5.7 liter)???? The Lotus beat it in ever aspect except drifting and the lotus was a cheaper buy. Did you guys see the video at neon.org of that neon beating a dodge viper? or how about that 88 dodge van that beat the 98 z28?

What is the resale value of a Neon or a '88 van? They are just pissing their money away on a junk car. You gotta have something to start with before you build it up. I see videos like that & I wonder, "How many of those neons are out there?" I bet the ratio of Neons that can beat a Mustang is like 20,000 to 1 & 100,000 to one with the Viper. ;)

Re: Rice burner vs. Muscle car
 

I too read that issue of "Sport Compact Car" or the other Import mag and you have to consider the source. It's an Import car magazine so the Lotus Elise had to win. We both know who really won those tests. The Mustang Cobra R! I don't have the issue in front of me, but the Lotus Elise was modified with a built Honda B18 motor. The Elise weights around 1500lbs. The chances of any of us running into one on American soil is slim to none. Don't worry about the Lotus Elise.

I agree with you guys on that one. The ratio of seeing many fast civics or neons to fast mustangs is very large.

BTW that 12 second turbo caravan is cool! The guy just died in a motorcycle accident too :( :(

Later,
nick

What? How can you deny numbers just because it comes from a certain magazine? If you look around all the internet sites, you will see that the Lotus DOES run faster than the Cobra R AND its cheaper in price. As for resale value, they are both in that same category. I think the Cobra R, which runs like a 13.5, is more of a collectible than an example of what power ford can produce. I love my mustang, and i've always seen the mustang as the most powerful monster on the road...but now days, its just not true. which sux. Buy the way, i think people go to cars like neons because its easier to fix up, its more affordable to fix up(my friend just found his hipo 2.0L built engine for $200), they are lighter and end up doing well in quarter miles and such.

:confused: I thoght the Elise wasn't legal for sale in the U.S. due to crash-worthiness issues. I'm sure that if Ford didn't have to worry about the NHTSA, they would have no problem destroying the Elise.:D

LOL, and I bet you believe ever word in the National Inquirer! Magzines can change a story around so fast it will make your head spin. We all remember the story about the Integra Type R that beat the Standard GT. After the Mustang Kicked the Type R's a** around in every aspect, they modified the test so that the mustang could not win. ALWAYS take a magzine article with a grain of salt. Especially if it is an import mag talking about a domestic or a domestic mag talking about an import.

You have much to learn dear grasshopper if you think the lotus is in the same category as a Cobra R (or smoking crack :) ). The Cobra R is a VERY limited Production factory Road racer. There were only 300 built. Buying a Cobra R is buying an investment. The value will only go up. Not true for the lotus or 99.99% of other cars on the road (including other mustangs).

1. The Corba R is a track machine not a drag car
2. The numbers that I have seen are close to mid 12's with slicks or high 12's low 13's on street tires. Of course we're limited to believeing magazines on this car due to the rarity of the car :).


LOL. I guess you have to define "fix up" Even for regular maintanence items, my 95, 5.0L mustang has been MUCH than my wife's chev cavalier, my friends Pick-up, co-workers Honda, etc, etc. This list goes on. I can't speak for the 4.6 as my experience is limited mostly to the 5.0.

If you want to start talking performance "fix up's". Hell will freeze over before that happens :)

LOL, I have yet to EVER witness, talk to someone, read about, dream about or do drugs and visualize a neon do better than a Mustang at a 1/4 mile track. I don't think I've ever even heard that the words "Neo" ,"well" and "1/4 mile" used in the same sentence before!

Yes they are lighter, but with a 100+ HP disadvantage, they need to lose another 1000 pounds before they start to do "well" at the "1/4 mile".

I don't mean to come down on you buddy, it just kinda happened that way :)

Cobra R has turned very early 12s with slicks.

PS - How many chicks are you going to bang driving a 88 Dodge Van. I think I'll stick to my stang.

LOL@steeda90 ooooo my gawd I can't believe you just said that !!! haahaa still funny though!:D ;)

How is a Lotus Elise rice? Please someone clear this up for me. They are Brittish cars. Not only that, but they are pretty darn sweet if you ask me. Basically a car running a motorcycle engine, and no unnescicary crap to weigh it down.

I don't have the magazine, but I would put money on that car beating the Cobra R around a track. Especially one that is really tight. That's what the car is made for.

If someone can find the article on line, please post a link. I'm interested to see what all the fuss is about.

As for Dodge vans, and Neons, I want zero to do with them, believe me. But that Lotus is a bad a** car.

;) Know what's even funnier? These ricers are saying similar things. When someone points out that a GT, Cobra, Vette is faster then their modded Hondas/Acuras they come back with "Yeah but we get all the honeys"

What girl, besides some ghetto-skank, toothless, welfare ***** would actually think a Honda or Integra looks masculine? Every girl I ask always tells me the same thing...They love mustangs, vettes, etc...

The Lotus Elise sold in the states has an Integra Type R motor in it because the Rover engine doesn't meet emissions standards. I definitely wouldn't call it Rice as it performs well in every category, but I'll still take the Cobra R anyday, '95 or '00!
As for a Neon being easier to fix up than a Stang, put down the crack and step away from the pipe. Easy to fix up means large aftermarket parts availability and good horsepower gains for the amount of money you have to spend... of course the 5.0 would be a nice example of this.

LOL true true I know them scrawny little rice boys don't do anything for me..... Guess that is why they drive hondas can't handle any real HP!!!!

See Ya
Karen:cool:

ANY car will go fast if you have the money. But why put all that money in a ricer and sound like a swarm of bees going down the road and get laughed at while you can buy a Stang and get thumbs up all day long.

Hey Lotus' are nice cars thats a given. But now were talkin about neons and caravans? Well if you have the money to hook up a neon and make it fast, do this. 1) Get a mustang....make it the top of the line. 2) Get a neon, fix it up which will be challenging and hang out with the rice boys. This way if you have money u can be on both sides and see which one is about real cars.

I usually don't listen to too much that magazines have to say about cars in general, including performance specs. A lot of times, magazines have 1/4 mile times and 0-60 times that are off, some faster and some slower, but I figure if you take the average of the mags, you will end up with a pretty close estimate. In terms of comparing the Lotus and the Cobra R, I see that as a fair comparison for these reasons: You are not going to see very many REAL Cobra R's because their weren't many produced and also, if you don't live in Southern California or Florida, you probably will never see a Lotus either. The Lotus is faster in all tests, but it isn't like it was an unfair competition. The Cobra R performs similarly, but is a step behind the Lotus. The Z06 and Viper are also in this "semi-exotic" sport car area although the Viper is very far off in terms of pricing. I don't know if you ever look at the Dupont Registry, but Lotus vehicles DO NOT lose their value, and if their aren't that many brought into the states, the value of the car will go up slightly. The 00 Cobra R isn't going to drop in value, but it isn't going to be the same situation as with older "classic" American cars regardless of what people think. Given a choice between the ITR powered Lotus, and a Cobra R for a streetable track car, I would take the Lotus based on performance and price....not very many Cobra R's sold for anywhere near the 55k sticker price. Add the Z06 to that list however and I'm taking the car with air conditioning and a radio with similar performance to the other two that don't have those standard for a similar price.

lol, Mustang V8 = Masculine

A Lotus is definately not rice (from factory ;) ). But I'm still not sure I would put it in the same category as a Lotus or vette for that matter. A Cobra R is definately a collector's car. In 25 years it will be worth more than it is today, guaranteed.

I would rather take a Cobra R over a Lotus, only because of the rarity.

A Lotus will not drop like a standard car, but I still don't think it will hold value like a limited production factory race car, JMO.

Technically the Lotus as mentioned is a limited production race car too. What I dont understand is this...I know the lotus is LIGHT, but how the heck can that little underpowered sewing machine engine still match the big brute 380 HP Cobra engine? Doesnt the ITR motor only put out 200 HP? I know the lotus is light, but still shouldnt Cobra out power it in the top end?

Well, according to lotus uk, the car weight 1663lbs. With a 200bhp Honda motor, that's a pretty good power to weight. Throw in 3.96 gears, and double wishbone track set up, and it would give the R a run for its money on a circut.

This idea is nothing new, look at the classic Porsches, 550, 356, etc. Light 'underpowered' cars running rampant on the international scene. I'm rooting for the Cobra as much as anyone here, I've just seen too many high end European GT's to doubt their performance.