C5 loses to 80-90, then walks away

Rev · 01-20-2002, 06:42 AM

Just got my new heads TFTW and 1.7 rockers installed and barely broken in. What do I see on the beltway feeder here in Houston but a black '01-02 Vette. A well dressed black middle aged man was goosing it 50-70 and back down again, just having fun with his ride. I caught him at a light and gave him a long, hard rev that nobody could fail to hear.

At the green, I nailed it laying rubber for 20-30ft. and going slightly sideways, I got him at least 2 lengths as I shifted 2nd at 6000 RPM (used to be 5500), still had him through 2nd gear up to 80-90, but then that danged LS1 did what they always seem to do at the high end and just passed and walked away. I just hate that, but at least I gave him a good run.

I figure I'm probably down into mid 13's (13.6 or 13.7) with him into low 13's. Of course, my car suffers greatly at speed due to poor air resistance while his was developed in a wind tunnel. No exscuses though, he did get me at high end.

Rev

Skyman · 01-20-2002, 08:48 AM

Hey, nice to see you got the heads on!

You shouldnt get easily pulled by him. How do they feel?

Also what other peices do you have now?

Skyler

Nitrous Al · 01-20-2002, 09:07 AM

Rev, I would have loved to see the look on that guy's face!

"$45,000 and it can't beat a '66 Mustang. The salesman lied to me! Lo, Lo, Lo! He gonna get his ***** wipped after this race. " If you had the same cubic inches (346) as the LS1, maybe this would have been different. Stroke your 302 to 347 and go find a LS1 Corvette to play with.

Rev · 01-20-2002, 09:14 AM

Skler, nice to hear from you, haven't seen much from you lately. The new heads feel good, but I just got them on yesterday.

I do now run strong to 6000 (5500 before) with a little more off the line, so I can't complain. I did beat that Vette to 80-90, but after that he came on by.

Rev

302 LX Eric · 01-21-2002, 03:39 PM

Rev, give the car some time to break-in. When I put my TW's on it seem to get faster with each time at the track. I know this may seem odd, but seriously, I went from a 13.8 @ 101 to a 13.3 @ 105 within one summer and only minimal mods after the heads (alum. D/S and subframes, if I remember correctly). I don't know how it happened, maybe the computer just had to re-learn everything??? (Or maybe I just started driving better!

)

Anyways, keep us posted on any new track times.

Take care,
E

302 LX Eric · 01-21-2002, 03:49 PM

Rev, give the car some time to break-in. When I put my TW's on it seem to get faster with each time at the track. I know this may seem odd, but seriously, I went from a 13.8 @ 101 to a 13.3 @ 105 within one summer and only minimal mods after the heads (alum. D/S and subframes, if I remember correctly). I don't know how it happened, maybe the computer just had to re-learn everything??? (Or maybe I just started driving better!

)

Anyways, keep us posted on any new track times.

Take care,
E

Rev · 01-21-2002, 08:17 PM

Thanks guys for the encouragement. The new heads/rockers are just barely broken in. I don't have a computer in the car, LOL, but I hope you guys are correct about things getting better later. I can't believe I could trap 105, but I would kiss the asphalt if I did.

Rev

NO SLO PK · 01-22-2002, 12:33 AM

Rev,

Sounds like you didn't have the chance to tune with the heads, and I'll bet tuning could make a world of difference. You had cast iron before? As you probably know, Aluminum can handle a lot more timing. It wouldn't surprise me if you upped the initial another 2-3 degrees without problems. I'm confident you'll feel the improvement.

Also, it's been a long time since I played with a Holley, but wouldn't the jetting requirements be different with the new heads?

L8r

ALS85GT · 01-22-2002, 12:27 PM

Good story but it seems to me that the important thing is that you would've beat him in the 1/4 right?

Rev · 01-22-2002, 05:13 PM

I think I'm probably down to about 13.6 or so but my G-Tech is on the blink and I can't go to the track until Friday for test and tune. So that's just a pure guess. I understand a new Vette will run low 13's and I know I'm not anywhere near that.

I know it sounds odd, but I ran 45 degrees total timing all in by 3000 RPM with my old 351W heads. There was no detonation and that's where it ran best. I think that much was needed due the not very efficient combustion chamber design.

I set the timing to 36 derees total advance with the new heads because that's what TrickFlow recommended. I sure don't want any detonation to mess up my engine now.

I'm using a Road Demon carb now and it may be jetted slightly rich at #68's on the primaries I believe. I'll need to read the plugs and may jet down a couple of sizes, at least on the primaries.

When I have actual time slips, I'll post them. Right now I'm just seat-of-the-pants guessing, and we all know how accurate that is.

Rev

Rev · 01-26-2002, 07:02 PM

Did go to the track last night (Sat., 25th) and ran a best of 13.68 at 101.5. Nice conditions 65 F and not too humid.

Apparently the new heads are good for about .3 off the ET and maybe 2 MPH on the trap speed. Old MPH did average only about 99, the 100.3 was only a one time occurance.

Might try some little adjustments to jetting, thermostat, and timing advance (no detonation found at 36 degrees), to see if any improvements can be had. Eventually will do anther DynoJet test to see what I have RWHP. Again, thanks for the encouragement.

Rev

Skyman · 01-27-2002, 05:05 AM

GIVE THOSE TFS HEADS SOME TIMING!

Well thats what I've learned from my experience with them.

The suckers just wont detonate. Ive had it upto 23degree inital, and they seem to run best around 21. So I would continue to advance them some more.

Ive run 16 inital w/ 80shot of n20 with not a bit of detonation either on any of the plugs.

Skyler

Rev · 01-27-2002, 06:13 PM

Thanks for the timing advice Sky. I will bump the timing a degree or so at a time to see if it helps any. Fortunately, I do have an adjustable distributor, so I can do that easily even without changing the initial 14 degrees.

Rev

Skyman · 01-27-2002, 06:37 PM

Id try 18-19 intial 39-40 total.

Skyler

Rev · 01-27-2002, 07:01 PM

That'll be simple Sky. All I'll need to do is bump the initial 4 degrees to 18 and that'll make 40 total all in by 3000 RPM. I will have to check for detonation though on the plugs. Me being half deaf and the Flows kind of drown out anything I might hear when I'm really on it.

I did review all my time slips. The usual trap speed was really only 98-99. The 100.3 was a one time only deal, but did occur. The old average was about 14.0/ 98.5-99. So I really got an improvement of .3/2.5 with the new heads. I hope the extra timing will help. Again, thanks for the advice.

Rev

Skyman · 01-28-2002, 03:13 AM

yeah I'm anxious to see what it will do.

The best shift point for my car seems to be around 5600rpm.

They make good power under the curve.

I think you should see 104-105 all said and done.

Skyler

01-20-2002, 06:42 AM	#1
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	C5 loses to 80-90, then walks away Just got my new heads TFTW and 1.7 rockers installed and barely broken in. What do I see on the beltway feeder here in Houston but a black '01-02 Vette. A well dressed black middle aged man was goosing it 50-70 and back down again, just having fun with his ride. I caught him at a light and gave him a long, hard rev that nobody could fail to hear. At the green, I nailed it laying rubber for 20-30ft. and going slightly sideways, I got him at least 2 lengths as I shifted 2nd at 6000 RPM (used to be 5500), still had him through 2nd gear up to 80-90, but then that danged LS1 did what they always seem to do at the high end and just passed and walked away. I just hate that, but at least I gave him a good run. I figure I'm probably down into mid 13's (13.6 or 13.7) with him into low 13's. Of course, my car suffers greatly at speed due to poor air resistance while his was developed in a wind tunnel. No exscuses though, he did get me at high end. Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe

01-20-2002, 08:48 AM	#2
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Hey, nice to see you got the heads on! You shouldnt get easily pulled by him. How do they feel? Also what other peices do you have now? Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

01-20-2002, 09:14 AM	#4
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	Skler, nice to hear from you, haven't seen much from you lately. The new heads feel good, but I just got them on yesterday. I do now run strong to 6000 (5500 before) with a little more off the line, so I can't complain. I did beat that Vette to 80-90, but after that he came on by. Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe

01-21-2002, 03:39 PM	#5
302 LX Eric or '331 LX Eric' Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,142	Rev, give the car some time to break-in. When I put my TW's on it seem to get faster with each time at the track. I know this may seem odd, but seriously, I went from a 13.8 @ 101 to a 13.3 @ 105 within one summer and only minimal mods after the heads (alum. D/S and subframes, if I remember correctly). I don't know how it happened, maybe the computer just had to re-learn everything??? (Or maybe I just started driving better! ) Anyways, keep us posted on any new track times. Take care, E __________________ 1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 40,750 miles 331 cu. in. / Tremec 3550 / BFG Drag Radials 12.22 @ 114.31 mph - w/1.89 60'

01-21-2002, 08:17 PM	#7
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	Thanks guys for the encouragement. The new heads/rockers are just barely broken in. I don't have a computer in the car, LOL, but I hope you guys are correct about things getting better later. I can't believe I could trap 105, but I would kiss the asphalt if I did. Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe

01-20-2002, 09:07 AM	#3
Nitrous Al Registered Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Everett, MA Posts: 417	Rev, I would have loved to see the look on that guy's face! "$45,000 and it can't beat a '66 Mustang. The salesman lied to me! Lo, Lo, Lo! He gonna get his ***** wipped after this race. " If you had the same cubic inches (346) as the LS1, maybe this would have been different. Stroke your 302 to 347 and go find a LS1 Corvette to play with.

01-21-2002, 03:49 PM	#6
302 LX Eric or '331 LX Eric' Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,142	Rev, give the car some time to break-in. When I put my TW's on it seem to get faster with each time at the track. I know this may seem odd, but seriously, I went from a 13.8 @ 101 to a 13.3 @ 105 within one summer and only minimal mods after the heads (alum. D/S and subframes, if I remember correctly). I don't know how it happened, maybe the computer just had to re-learn everything??? (Or maybe I just started driving better! ) Anyways, keep us posted on any new track times. Take care, E __________________ 1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 40,750 miles 331 cu. in. / Tremec 3550 / BFG Drag Radials 12.22 @ 114.31 mph - w/1.89 60'

01-22-2002, 12:33 AM	#8
NO SLO PK Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Arcadia, CA, USA Posts: 731	Rev, Sounds like you didn't have the chance to tune with the heads, and I'll bet tuning could make a world of difference. You had cast iron before? As you probably know, Aluminum can handle a lot more timing. It wouldn't surprise me if you upped the initial another 2-3 degrees without problems. I'm confident you'll feel the improvement. Also, it's been a long time since I played with a Holley, but wouldn't the jetting requirements be different with the new heads? L8r __________________ Russ L '91 LX - 331 w/ Procharger '03 Cobra Convertible - Pullied '94 Lightning '65 Mustang Coupe

01-22-2002, 12:27 PM	#9
ALS85GT Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Miami, Fl, USA Posts: 69	Good story but it seems to me that the important thing is that you would've beat him in the 1/4 right? __________________ 85GT 5.0 was CFI converted to Holley 650. Hooker full length headers, FlowMaster 2 chamber. Weiand Stealth manifold. 86 roller motor, crane 1:7:1 alum rocker arms(roller). SSI 220@.050/498 Roller cam. Summit double roller timing chain. Melling oil pump, stock bottom end. Mallory Hi-Fire ignition. Under drive pulleys. Accell coil and Ford Motorsport 9mm wires. 93'8.8 posi. 4:10s. AOD w/B&M shift kit. No figures yet, still working on it. No back seats or AC. 1989 GT Convert-- All stock w/AOD, Air Silencer removed, DynoMax Mufflers.

01-22-2002, 05:13 PM	#10
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	I think I'm probably down to about 13.6 or so but my G-Tech is on the blink and I can't go to the track until Friday for test and tune. So that's just a pure guess. I understand a new Vette will run low 13's and I know I'm not anywhere near that. I know it sounds odd, but I ran 45 degrees total timing all in by 3000 RPM with my old 351W heads. There was no detonation and that's where it ran best. I think that much was needed due the not very efficient combustion chamber design. I set the timing to 36 derees total advance with the new heads because that's what TrickFlow recommended. I sure don't want any detonation to mess up my engine now. I'm using a Road Demon carb now and it may be jetted slightly rich at #68's on the primaries I believe. I'll need to read the plugs and may jet down a couple of sizes, at least on the primaries. When I have actual time slips, I'll post them. Right now I'm just seat-of-the-pants guessing, and we all know how accurate that is. Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe

01-26-2002, 07:02 PM	#11
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	Did go to the track last night (Sat., 25th) and ran a best of 13.68 at 101.5. Nice conditions 65 F and not too humid. Apparently the new heads are good for about .3 off the ET and maybe 2 MPH on the trap speed. Old MPH did average only about 99, the 100.3 was only a one time occurance. Might try some little adjustments to jetting, thermostat, and timing advance (no detonation found at 36 degrees), to see if any improvements can be had. Eventually will do anther DynoJet test to see what I have RWHP. Again, thanks for the encouragement. Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe

01-27-2002, 05:05 AM	#12
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	GIVE THOSE TFS HEADS SOME TIMING! Well thats what I've learned from my experience with them. The suckers just wont detonate. Ive had it upto 23degree inital, and they seem to run best around 21. So I would continue to advance them some more. Ive run 16 inital w/ 80shot of n20 with not a bit of detonation either on any of the plugs. Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

01-27-2002, 06:13 PM	#13
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	Thanks for the timing advice Sky. I will bump the timing a degree or so at a time to see if it helps any. Fortunately, I do have an adjustable distributor, so I can do that easily even without changing the initial 14 degrees. Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe

01-27-2002, 06:37 PM	#14
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Id try 18-19 intial 39-40 total. Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

01-27-2002, 07:01 PM	#15
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	That'll be simple Sky. All I'll need to do is bump the initial 4 degrees to 18 and that'll make 40 total all in by 3000 RPM. I will have to check for detonation though on the plugs. Me being half deaf and the Flows kind of drown out anything I might hear when I'm really on it. I did review all my time slips. The usual trap speed was really only 98-99. The 100.3 was a one time only deal, but did occur. The old average was about 14.0/ 98.5-99. So I really got an improvement of .3/2.5 with the new heads. I hope the extra timing will help. Again, thanks for the advice. Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe Last edited by Rev; 01-27-2002 at 07:08 PM..

01-28-2002, 03:13 AM	#16
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	yeah I'm anxious to see what it will do. The best shift point for my car seems to be around 5600rpm. They make good power under the curve. I think you should see 104-105 all said and done. Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

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