SS smackdown! - Page 2

Rev · 04-09-2001, 08:11 PM

I'm pretty doubtful that a Prelude will get 200 SAE at the wheels. Anyone know for sure?

Rev

------------------
'66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph
1/4 mi.

Lizard King · 04-09-2001, 09:20 PM

S2000 is an engineering marvel for a mass production vehicle...

What I don't get is it has 240HP and weights 2809lbs. The Mustang 2000 GT has 260HP and weights 3500lbs.

Yet, the s2000 at the track runs 13.7, and the 2000GT 13.7.

I don't get it...

Is it about the torque at 305 for 2000GT and 153@7500rpm for the S2000
or ...
could it be because that little 4 banger is driven towards an exagerated "peak" HP of 240HP at 8300rpm and the stang has nice full curve full of HPs maxing out at 260HP?

I mean 240HP is great but it's only a severe peak,... right?

Rev · 04-10-2001, 02:23 PM

Hey LK, one's set up more for road race and the other's set up better for the 1320. Original Z-28's and Boss 302's both sucked big time at the strip. They were both purpose built road racers and so didn't do well in a drag race. I think it's the same with the S2000.

Rev

------------------
'66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph
1/4 mi.

fastang · 04-10-2001, 05:56 PM

The chevy 350 crate motors put out more than you would think. They might only be rated at 350 flywhp but they make more. One of my best friends bought a crate 350 from a dealer, all hit did was dyno tune it and it hit 440 hp. He went 12.70's on bald radials. Of course last month one of the aluminum heads cracked then destroyed his 5 thousand dollar motor! fuknchevys!

------------------
95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, 73mm MAF, milled heads, 355's K&N, BBK Longtubes, Flowmaster cat back, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, FMS aluminum driveshaft, weld in subframe connectors

Rev · 04-10-2001, 06:17 PM

Hey Fastang, I meant the early Z-28's and Boss 302's, not the newbies. Those '69-70's were pretty wimpy at the strip.

Rev

------------------
'66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph
1/4 mi.

Steve2000SS · 04-13-2001, 11:21 AM

I said the Prelude does 200 at the FLYWHEEL.. no way thats at the wheel.. anyhow its hard to compare crate engines because manufacturers offer them in many differnt packages..

I also dont agree with the "chevy cant beat ford in engineering".. to do this you compare cars from the 80's?? both company engineer quite nicely.. the Cobra engine is very well engineered (needs more power though

and so is the LS1.. not to mention the LS6.. while the Cobra was out of production for engineering problems the LS1 was still being named one of the top ten engines but Hemmings.. so lets not get into a "my company is better than yours" sort of deal.. both have good points and bad points..

------------------
2000 M6 SS Camaro.. mostly stock go mods.. lots of show stuff..
320rwhp & 333rwtq corrected SAE

stevstum · 04-16-2001, 04:54 PM

Didn't the stock Cobra R with a more equal engine to the Camaros actually hang with a Corvette Z06. And it even out performed it in some cases. I even read about the new Focus fr200 keep up with the Z06.

Sounds like ford is kicking *** and taking names these days.

Rev · 04-16-2001, 05:06 PM

Sorry Steve2000SS, when you said the Prelude made 200fwhp, I assumed fwhp meant front wheel horsepower rather than flywheel horsepower.

Rev

------------------
'66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph
1/4 mi.

Steve2000SS · 04-21-2001, 07:39 PM

No problem Rev.. im sure the Honda guy WISH it was Rear wheel HP

The focus didnt beat the Z06.. but it did hang with it pretty good.. now the bad news.. it was a factory test car (did you notice the estmatid cost of $200,000?) with a lot of exotic parts.. if you try hard enough you can beat any car with almost any other car.. it just takes $$

The Cobra R has lost to the vette in many areas and won by a tiny margin in a few.. this is supposed to impress us? After all with the vette you get little things like.. AC.. a radio.. plus the vette is a lot cheaper.. I think the vette was prefered in every comparison ive seen.. Also what is the real impact of a car that is only made in a tiny batch (300) were most of these will be locked away by collectors? Id say ford needs to stop messing with all these one of a kind and limited run cars and put some more effort into their main line cars.. like the Cobra or even more the GT.. but what do I know.. im a GM guy

Unit 5302 · 04-21-2001, 11:46 PM

Hehehe, this is kinda funny. An argument comparing the superiority of the 4.6L DOHC 32v V-8 to the 5.7L OHV 2v V-8.

Well, where to start off? Engineering. Best not hit redline with that LS1, unless you plan on buying a new motor from bent pushrods and valvetrain parts. How much power/streetability do you really think you can get out of an LS1? All a Cobra needs is a street trim S/C and it'll run 11's all day long for 100,000 miles. The Cobra can rev to 7k without problems, stock, beyond without the damn rev limiter. It has 4v per cylinder and DOHC. Meanwhile GM is still building OHV 2v's. I'm not saying you can't get good power out of a OHV 2v engine, just there is no way you can match the 4.6 DOHC engine in potential. The Cobra motor is just sitting there, detuned all to hell waiting for some mods.

As far as why the Cobra was discontinued, that's because Ford changed design at the last moment. Basically they mismatched a combo, and the cars were only making 305hp still, instead of the claimed 320.

The only reason the Cobra has the kind of power it does is that Ford likes their cars to hold together for a long time. It's not like they couldn't get more out of it. All you need is gears and better rubber to run as quick or quicker than any stock LS1, anyway.

The LS1's are damn quick stock, but they are by no means some engineering marvel.

Where to end, like it's even a question. The 4.6 is so far superior it's not even a debate.

Oh, by the way, I've beaten stock LS1's with my near stock 87GT. Vert's but still beat them.

'Course, how can you expect anything different on a Mustang website?

------------------
1987 GT 5spd.
D&D Performance "Z" spec T-5
Dynomax 2.5" Super Turbo system
BBK 2 1/2" H-pipe with cats

97snakedriver · 04-21-2001, 11:54 PM

The thing is the Z06 actually has a descent chassis and suspension. The Cobra R is a Cobra with stiffer springs, stronger axles, and descent dampers. Basically bolt ons.

But a REAL suspension in that car the story may be different. Not to mention the 79 Fairlain chassis.

But for a runner I'll take a Z06 thankyou.

SkarodoM · 04-22-2001, 02:03 AM

Im not a big fan of the ls1's... it IS however a motor with ALOT of potential.. whether a like it or not...

Check This Out

daily driver... smallish cam.. (222 is small to me anyway).. 3300lb...

92lxStang · 04-23-2001, 10:34 PM

I think the preludes get like around 195 at most hp to flywheel and that is whith basically no torque wich honda is known for.

Rev · 04-23-2001, 10:55 PM

Does all this mean I can spank Preludes with impugnity now? I've been waiting for permission. Now I don't have to feel guilty anymore?

Please inferno, tell me how fast they are again.

Rev

------------------
'66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph
1/4 mi.

LX XLR8R · 04-24-2001, 02:08 PM

ive yet to see a s2000 run sub 14's yet at the track

------------------
1987 black notch(ex 4 banger)
DSS 306 w/ main support...Elderbrock 6028 heads..gt-40 intake..24# injectors...70 mm tb..77 pro-m...accel 300+..mac full legnth..tremec w/ pro5oh...full MAC exhaust,off road h-pipe,long tubes, catback...ron davis radiator..subframes, control arms...CFDF II..o yea holley FPR sucks..dont buy one..
AIM=onesillynotch

Steve2000SS · 04-25-2001, 11:27 AM

Yawn.. the "cobra engine is better than the LS1" argument again.. The Cobra engine is a fine piece of engineering (once Ford fixed it) but to say the LS1 has no potential is nonsense.. There are quite a few guys with stock LS1's that have installed Vortech's (good for over 440rwhp) and some even with twin INCON turbos (good for over 500rwhp).. of course they then grenade the trans and rearend but the engine has no problem with the hp.. Oh,, and there are a TON of guys with NA LS1's making in excess of 400rwhp (heads, cam, headers).. Where are all the 400+rwhp Cobras that are normally aspirated?? Cobras are better because they can rev higher?? Does that make the Prelude better than the Cobra because it can rev higher?? I have to admit though that the Cobra engine is prettier than my ugly LS1

------------------
2000 M6 SS Camaro.. mostly stock go mods.. lots of show stuff..
320rwhp & 333rwtq corrected SAE

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04-09-2001, 08:11 PM	#21
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	I'm pretty doubtful that a Prelude will get 200 SAE at the wheels. Anyone know for sure? Rev ------------------ '66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph 1/4 mi.

04-09-2001, 09:20 PM	#22
Lizard King midnightruns.com Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 584	S2000 is an engineering marvel for a mass production vehicle... What I don't get is it has 240HP and weights 2809lbs. The Mustang 2000 GT has 260HP and weights 3500lbs. Yet, the s2000 at the track runs 13.7, and the 2000GT 13.7. I don't get it... Is it about the torque at 305 for 2000GT and 153@7500rpm for the S2000 or ... could it be because that little 4 banger is driven towards an exagerated "peak" HP of 240HP at 8300rpm and the stang has nice full curve full of HPs maxing out at 260HP? I mean 240HP is great but it's only a severe peak,... right?

04-10-2001, 02:23 PM	#23
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	Hey LK, one's set up more for road race and the other's set up better for the 1320. Original Z-28's and Boss 302's both sucked big time at the strip. They were both purpose built road racers and so didn't do well in a drag race. I think it's the same with the S2000. Rev ------------------ '66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph 1/4 mi.

04-10-2001, 05:56 PM	#24
fastang Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: santa ana ca Posts: 1,349	The chevy 350 crate motors put out more than you would think. They might only be rated at 350 flywhp but they make more. One of my best friends bought a crate 350 from a dealer, all hit did was dyno tune it and it hit 440 hp. He went 12.70's on bald radials. Of course last month one of the aluminum heads cracked then destroyed his 5 thousand dollar motor! fuknchevys! ------------------ 95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, 73mm MAF, milled heads, 355's K&N, BBK Longtubes, Flowmaster cat back, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, FMS aluminum driveshaft, weld in subframe connectors

04-10-2001, 06:17 PM	#25
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	Hey Fastang, I meant the early Z-28's and Boss 302's, not the newbies. Those '69-70's were pretty wimpy at the strip. Rev ------------------ '66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph 1/4 mi.

04-13-2001, 11:21 AM	#26
Steve2000SS Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Corona, CA Posts: 31	I said the Prelude does 200 at the FLYWHEEL.. no way thats at the wheel.. anyhow its hard to compare crate engines because manufacturers offer them in many differnt packages.. I also dont agree with the "chevy cant beat ford in engineering".. to do this you compare cars from the 80's?? both company engineer quite nicely.. the Cobra engine is very well engineered (needs more power though and so is the LS1.. not to mention the LS6.. while the Cobra was out of production for engineering problems the LS1 was still being named one of the top ten engines but Hemmings.. so lets not get into a "my company is better than yours" sort of deal.. both have good points and bad points.. ------------------ 2000 M6 SS Camaro.. mostly stock go mods.. lots of show stuff.. 320rwhp & 333rwtq corrected SAE

04-16-2001, 04:54 PM	#27
stevstum Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Salem, Or. USA Posts: 233	Didn't the stock Cobra R with a more equal engine to the Camaros actually hang with a Corvette Z06. And it even out performed it in some cases. I even read about the new Focus fr200 keep up with the Z06. Sounds like ford is kicking *** and taking names these days.

04-16-2001, 05:06 PM	#28
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	Sorry Steve2000SS, when you said the Prelude made 200fwhp, I assumed fwhp meant front wheel horsepower rather than flywheel horsepower. Rev ------------------ '66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph 1/4 mi.

04-21-2001, 07:39 PM	#29
Steve2000SS Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Corona, CA Posts: 31	No problem Rev.. im sure the Honda guy WISH it was Rear wheel HP The focus didnt beat the Z06.. but it did hang with it pretty good.. now the bad news.. it was a factory test car (did you notice the estmatid cost of $200,000?) with a lot of exotic parts.. if you try hard enough you can beat any car with almost any other car.. it just takes $$ The Cobra R has lost to the vette in many areas and won by a tiny margin in a few.. this is supposed to impress us? After all with the vette you get little things like.. AC.. a radio.. plus the vette is a lot cheaper.. I think the vette was prefered in every comparison ive seen.. Also what is the real impact of a car that is only made in a tiny batch (300) were most of these will be locked away by collectors? Id say ford needs to stop messing with all these one of a kind and limited run cars and put some more effort into their main line cars.. like the Cobra or even more the GT.. but what do I know.. im a GM guy

04-21-2001, 11:46 PM	#30
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	Hehehe, this is kinda funny. An argument comparing the superiority of the 4.6L DOHC 32v V-8 to the 5.7L OHV 2v V-8. Well, where to start off? Engineering. Best not hit redline with that LS1, unless you plan on buying a new motor from bent pushrods and valvetrain parts. How much power/streetability do you really think you can get out of an LS1? All a Cobra needs is a street trim S/C and it'll run 11's all day long for 100,000 miles. The Cobra can rev to 7k without problems, stock, beyond without the damn rev limiter. It has 4v per cylinder and DOHC. Meanwhile GM is still building OHV 2v's. I'm not saying you can't get good power out of a OHV 2v engine, just there is no way you can match the 4.6 DOHC engine in potential. The Cobra motor is just sitting there, detuned all to hell waiting for some mods. As far as why the Cobra was discontinued, that's because Ford changed design at the last moment. Basically they mismatched a combo, and the cars were only making 305hp still, instead of the claimed 320. The only reason the Cobra has the kind of power it does is that Ford likes their cars to hold together for a long time. It's not like they couldn't get more out of it. All you need is gears and better rubber to run as quick or quicker than any stock LS1, anyway. The LS1's are damn quick stock, but they are by no means some engineering marvel. Where to end, like it's even a question. The 4.6 is so far superior it's not even a debate. Oh, by the way, I've beaten stock LS1's with my near stock 87GT. Vert's but still beat them. 'Course, how can you expect anything different on a Mustang website? ------------------ 1987 GT 5spd. D&D Performance "Z" spec T-5 Dynomax 2.5" Super Turbo system BBK 2 1/2" H-pipe with cats

04-21-2001, 11:54 PM	#31
97snakedriver Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Blacksburg, VA Posts: 1,526	The thing is the Z06 actually has a descent chassis and suspension. The Cobra R is a Cobra with stiffer springs, stronger axles, and descent dampers. Basically bolt ons. But a REAL suspension in that car the story may be different. Not to mention the 79 Fairlain chassis. But for a runner I'll take a Z06 thankyou.

04-22-2001, 02:03 AM	#32
SkarodoM Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 199	Im not a big fan of the ls1's... it IS however a motor with ALOT of potential.. whether a like it or not... Check This Out daily driver... smallish cam.. (222 is small to me anyway).. 3300lb...

04-23-2001, 10:34 PM	#33
92lxStang Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 12	I think the preludes get like around 195 at most hp to flywheel and that is whith basically no torque wich honda is known for.

04-23-2001, 10:55 PM	#34
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	Does all this mean I can spank Preludes with impugnity now? I've been waiting for permission. Now I don't have to feel guilty anymore? Please inferno, tell me how fast they are again. Rev ------------------ '66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph 1/4 mi.

04-24-2001, 02:08 PM	#35
LX XLR8R Dirk Diggler Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: SLOATSBURG, NY Posts: 1,931	ive yet to see a s2000 run sub 14's yet at the track ------------------ 1987 black notch(ex 4 banger) DSS 306 w/ main support...Elderbrock 6028 heads..gt-40 intake..24# injectors...70 mm tb..77 pro-m...accel 300+..mac full legnth..tremec w/ pro5oh...full MAC exhaust,off road h-pipe,long tubes, catback...ron davis radiator..subframes, control arms...CFDF II..o yea holley FPR sucks..dont buy one.. AIM=onesillynotch

04-25-2001, 11:27 AM	#36
Steve2000SS Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Corona, CA Posts: 31	Yawn.. the "cobra engine is better than the LS1" argument again.. The Cobra engine is a fine piece of engineering (once Ford fixed it) but to say the LS1 has no potential is nonsense.. There are quite a few guys with stock LS1's that have installed Vortech's (good for over 440rwhp) and some even with twin INCON turbos (good for over 500rwhp).. of course they then grenade the trans and rearend but the engine has no problem with the hp.. Oh,, and there are a TON of guys with NA LS1's making in excess of 400rwhp (heads, cam, headers).. Where are all the 400+rwhp Cobras that are normally aspirated?? Cobras are better because they can rev higher?? Does that make the Prelude better than the Cobra because it can rev higher?? I have to admit though that the Cobra engine is prettier than my ugly LS1 ------------------ 2000 M6 SS Camaro.. mostly stock go mods.. lots of show stuff.. 320rwhp & 333rwtq corrected SAE