Is Giggle Juice Fair?

[rbatson2]

There is no difference dude. I remember being in high school(mid 80s) and we all thought that Dodge was 'cheating' with the Daytona because it had 'fake hp' by using a turbo on its 4 banger. It was a pretty quick car at that time. We all preferred cubic inches. Never the less, it was a fast car. All the 'power-adders' do the same thing, just different ways of going about it. Getting oxygen into the chamber along with some added fuel. N2O by injecting, Superchargers by blowering it in with the use of a belt(off the crank) and Turbos by spooling up the pressure from the exhaust. When you come to understand these things you will look at it differently. It all comes down to winning the race and whatever works for you. I know where you are coming from though and I thought it was cheating too, until I decided to do something about it(I went with the supercharger). Now I really don't care what power adder someone else has, choose your poison.

BTW, nice to meet ya. Glad you learned something here, thats what its all about.

[blue oval 50h]

It wasnt just twin turbos, it was twin superchargers also in the early 90's. And, turbos and superchargers with a lil nitrous. Well 20, without your turbo, your car is deemed useless. So by your standards, you are cheating too

[rbatson2]

Originally posted by blue oval 50h
It wasnt just twin turbos, it was twin superchargers also in the early 90's. And, turbos and superchargers with a lil nitrous.

I did not know that, learn something everyday. I know that a small shot of nitrous works well with a supercharger but I didn't realize folks where running twin superchargers.

Originally posted by blue oval 50h
It wasnt just twin turbos, it was twin superchargers also in the early 90's. And, turbos and superchargers with a lil nitrous. Well 20, without your turbo, your car is deemed useless. So by your standards, you are cheating too

I shouldn't have used the word "CHEATING" when starting this thread. I didn't realize it would grow into what it has and "CHEATING" is a poor choice of words. Perhaps "WEAK" would have been better.

I see turbos and superchargers completely differently than NOS, here's why:

- Turbos and Superchargers are actually a part of the working mechanics of the engine.
- Stock turbo/supercharged engines cannot run with turbo/supercharger removed (I know what you're thinking. I cannot remove my turbo and drive to the store without MAJOR engine work).
- Manufactured turbo/supercharged engines are made factory original with the turbo/supercharger.
- Power is "on demand" anywhere, anytime. Non NOS cars can run their times all day, any day without the need for constant fill-ups to keep good times.

I understand the theory of NOS and what it does to produce HP. Never have questioned that and/or it's similarity to forced induction. There are some turbo guys running around using alcohol injection so they can safely up their boost. That's not for me either.

It may come down to "whoever wins the race" but seems strange that the guy who wins the checker flag 2 or 3 times has to go and refill the bottle to keep winning. Is that really winning?? When the bottle quits, so do the wins. I can't imagine going out for a night hunting, scaring up a few races then having to end the night because the "go fast juice" is empty. Very strange concept....to me.
__________________
Dean
1989 PAS Turbo T/A #1233
*12.93@104mph 3.8 V-6
1987 Grand National

http://www.krif.com/tta/

[91GTturbo]

Originally posted by 20LbsBoost
[B]It may come down to "whoever wins the race" but seems strange that the guy who wins the checker flag 2 or 3 times has to go and refill the bottle to keep winning. Is that really winning?? When the bottle quits, so do the wins. I can't imagine going out for a night hunting, scaring up a few races then having to end the night because the "go fast juice" is empty. Very strange concept....to me.

No respectable nitrous user would be caught dead with an empty bottle. They understand its usage and know the bottle can and will run out. Before I went turbo, all I ran was nitrous. I had spare bottles that I kept filled, so I never worried about running out.

That was then, and I was on more of a budget, that's why I ran it. I picked up a used kit with 2 bottles at that time for $200. To good to pass up if you ask me. Probably 90% of the mustang owners in my area that are serious about going fast run nitrous. It's just cheap and easy. And unlike a blower or turbo, it's atmosphere in a bottle. No matter what the weather is like, nitrous is as unaffected my the conditions as the other 2 power adders.

I appreciate you level headedness and where your coming from, but you have to understand, for most guys the ability to knock off anywhere from 1/2 sec in et or 2 sec in et for a few under dollars is very appealing.

Nice thread...

IMO, nitrous isn't cheating, or unfair, or cheesy. Who cares about the method used when the results are the same? It's rediculous to discredit one power adder over another just because you don't approve of the method that the power is added.

Doesn't matter what the car came with from the factory. Very few people leave their cars 100% stock. Besides, you couldn't get approval for a nitrous system on a production car. Many a guy wouldn't know how to use it and probably wreck their engine, sending warranty costs skyrocketing. A factory turbo or supercharger is pretty much idiot proof, with no instructions for use needed.

Sure, my bottle might go empty, but I've seen wastegates fail and blower belts get tossed.

My car might be slower off the bottle, but a turbo/blower car will be even more of a pig with a broken belt or stuck wastegate. Most nitrous motors are quite stout even naturally aspirated, generally having much higher compression than a comparable turbo or blown motor.

Yeah, it's cheaper, so what?

Yeah, the bottle gets empty. So what? Throw in another full one. Do you think I'll be going to any race with only one bottle? Probably not. Try 6 or 7.

It also has some advantages:
No blower belts to break/slip.
No worrying about belt alignment.
No excessive load on the front of the crank.
No bearings to fail, and near zero moving parts.
WAY less maintenance(tell me how much it costs to get a blower or turbo rebilt/refurbished, and I'll laugh when I say it costs near nothing to rebuild a solenoid).
What do you do when the turbo/blower is maxed out, way past its efficiency range? You gotta get a new turbo or blower or get an upgraded impeller. Way more expensive than changing jets or buying a couple new solenoids and a bigger feed line.
Generally it has less of a tendency to blow head gaskets.
It doesn't affect a damn thing when it's off.
Makes the fattest torque curve of them all.
Nitrous doesn't heat the intake charge like a blower or turbo.
Cheaper initial cost.
Jet changes are a snap(much quicker than a pulley change, but adjustable boost controllers make it just about as easy).
Doesn't rely on engine oil to keep it alive.
Much easier to install for someone who may not be so mechanically inclined.

On another note, it's common to refer to a "power adder" as a blower, turbo, or nitrous/propane injection. This is common lingo. Any motor without any of the above would be considered naturally aspirated, regardless of what airflow modifications it has.

Originally posted by fiveoboy01
Nice thread...

IMO, nitrous isn't cheating, or unfair, or cheesy. Who cares about the method used when the results are the same?

Win no matter how? The end justifies the means?

I couldn't walk away from a track with a low 11 sec timeslip with my head held high knowing I had to use chemical gas sprayed into the engine to get power. No more than coming away from the track with a 6 sec timeslip with a chemical gas expanding inside a rocket motor attached to the rear of the car. But using your logic, as long as it gets you there so what. I could say I've got a 6 second machine! It's cheezy.

As far as mechanical problems with turbo/supercharged cars I'm sure there are. I've never had any, notta one. I had a Grand National for 10 years, a GMC Typhoon, Turbo T/A and another GN.
__________________
Dean
1989 PAS Turbo T/A #1233
*12.93@104mph 3.8 V-6
1987 Grand National

http://www.krif.com/tta/

[7000rpmisheaven]

had to use chemical gas sprayed into the engine to get power.

People that run nitrous don't do it because it is the only way they could get power. Its just the way they chose to do it. Also you shouldn't use the word power like that. My 1.6L Corolla makes power. If you meant alot of power, well everyones opinion is different as to how much is alot.

Chemical gas? What do you think air is? Nitrous increases the amount of oxygen in the cylinder allowing you to burn more gas. That is exactly what a turbo does. Nitrous isn't even flammable.

Somebody correct but don't they call it nitromethane cause they put nitrous in it. I guess all the top fuelers are just "cheezy."

As long as it gets you there thats all that matters? Yep, thats the way it is. You'll probably quit your whining when you figure that out.

Whining...please dude.
whine (hwºn, wºn) v. whined, whin·ing, whines. --intr. 1. To utter a plaintive, high-pitched, protracted sound, as in pain, fear, supplication, or complaint. 2. To complain or protest in a childish fashion. 3. To produce a sustained noise of relatively high pitch: jet engines whining. --tr.

Debate...yes.
de·bate (d¹-b³t“) v. de·bat·ed, de·bat·ing, de·bates. --intr. 1. To consider something; deliberate. 2. To engage in argument by discussing opposing points. 3. To engage in a formal discussion or argument. See Synonyms at discuss.

If you agree with the statement "the end justifies the means" stand up and say so. It's no big deal.
_______________________
Dean
1989 PAS Turbo T/A #1233
*12.93@104mph 3.8 V-6
1987 Grand National
http://www.krif.com/tta/

[7000rpmisheaven]

I'm sorry. Your right this is just a debate. I will simply say that I agree it is run what you brung. The game is, who can be the fastest. The game isn't who can be the fastest without nitrous. What ever ET you end up with is as a result of every component on the car. If car A beats car B while spraying does that mean he only beat him because he sprayed. If they race again and car B wins without car A spraying does that mean car only won because he was running slicks.

Why would it matter what you have on your car.

Why would it matter what you have on your car.

Good point! I think I'll mount a flame thrower and rocket launcher so if you pull ahead of me BAM! you're done. Run what'cha brung!

[chico]

WHY DON,T YOU GUYS DROP THIS AND GO ONTO SOMETHING MORE PRODUCTIVE????

[rbatson2]

Originally posted by 20LbsBoost
Good point! I think I'll mount a flame thrower and rocket launcher so if you pull ahead of me BAM! you're done. Run what'cha brung!

HAHAHA!! That's actually been tried, believe it or not. Guy put a rocket on his car and made a test run, in the desert. Problem was, he couldn't stop it and he ran into the side of a mountain. Needless to say, it would work fine... once. If you could pull up next to someone and safely race them, with a rocket attached... Summit would have a 'Rocket Section' listed in thier catalog.

It took me a while to get it too dude, you'll get it if you get beat enough times.

[slow98]

Good point! I think I'll mount a flame thrower and rocket launcher so if you pull ahead of me BAM! you're done. Run what'cha brung!


i always thought a rocket launcher launched the rocket and just sat there after the rocket is gone, what good is it gonna do to mount one to your car???? please explain....im confused

come on now lets be realistic

[Skyman]

A bottle will last you about 10 runs on a 100shot. Thats more than enough. If I beat you, Im not going to run you again, theres no point.

Yeah N20 isnt there all the time, oh well. A lot of turbo owners put in race fuel and crank the boost at the track, that ain't there all the time either.

If its not for you than it isnt. This debate really isnt going anywhere anymore, I think all that has to been said has been said.

Given that 20psiofboost, I have to say your a good sport and never got mad, I have to take my hat off to that!

Skyler

Originally posted by rbatson2
HAHAHA!! That's actually been tried, believe it or not. Guy put a rocket on his car and made a test run, in the desert. Problem was, he couldn't stop it and he ran into the side of a mountain. Needless to say, it would work fine... once. If you could pull up next to someone and safely race them, with a rocket attached... Summit would have a 'Rocket Section' listed in thier catalog.

It took me a while to get it too dude, you'll get it if you get beat enough times.

Hahah, that's pretty funny. Leave it to some moron to try that.

Glad to see someone in here's got a sense of humor!

Originally posted by Skyman
A bottle will last you about 10 runs on a 100shot. Thats more than enough. If I beat you, Im not going to run you again, theres no point.

Yeah N20 isnt there all the time, oh well. A lot of turbo owners put in race fuel and crank the boost at the track, that ain't there all the time either.

If its not for you than it isnt. This debate really isnt going anywhere anymore, I think all that has to been said has been said.

Given that 20psiofboost, I have to say your a good sport and never got mad, I have to take my hat off to that!

Skyler

Thanks Skyler,

No sense in gettin' mad at differences in opinion, cuz that's all it is. I'm just glad you guys didn't jump me even worse cuz I'm a non-Ford owner!

By the way, I checked with my TT/A buddies on that list about what power adder meant to them. They said the same thing....nitrous, turbo & supercharger. Said it was a track term to determine classes which is why I never heard of it, I don't go to tracks. One guy agreed with me regarding the literal definition of the term, that it could be anything that added power....but we won't go there again. Ya' learn something new every day, even from you Ford guys!

As they say "It's all good!"

[89mustanglx]

Ford? Chevy? nitrous? Boost?

In my opinion it's more fun when you do it all at once! ;-)

Smiff

[spankaveli]

if nitrous is "cheap hp" then what do you call a boost controller??

What do I call a boost controller?....I call it a boost controller.