86 Grand National takes me to school!!!

[john_86stang]

Well street racing in the small town I live in is slow most of the time to say the least. But to my surprise I got a race the other night. But man did it turn out bad. Me and a buddy were cruising, and see a Regal coming, lights up coming hard. He wizzed by and I did a quick U-turn and I was on him. I missed my chance at the red light. A little cavalier got in front of me. Well right before the light changes I hear a whining noise, then he takes off. Well turns out this is a Grand National. He slows rolls down the window and ask if I want to go run em. You know us Mustang guys love abuse, I say yeah man let's go. Well my car is pretty much stock, just bolt on mods. But I still wanted to race this guy. I did a little small burnout and he heated up his BFG Drag Radial just a little. Well we had a guy flagging and we both left at the same time. We jumped out even and from then on all I seen was Buick tailights. Man that thing was fast. I stopped and talked to him afterwards and he was real nice guy. Is there anything I could do to take this guy? He says his car runs 12.40 on the street but with race gas and slicks it will go 11.90's.

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John Welch
86 GT, 3.73's, H-pipe w/ 2-chamber Flows, No smog pump or A/C, crank pulley, K&N in stock box, adj. FPR, bypassed EGR(coolant) Best Run 14.34 @100.0 MPH (on G-Tech)

[86GT]

It doesn't take much for those GN's to get going that quick. There's two of them around here and man, all they did was turn up the wastegate for some more boost, and then just basic bolt-on stuff. The two around here are good guys too, which is a nice switch from a few of the local jerks with slower cars. The one GN ran a 11.70 at 121, he said the track was slippery though.

[Fox Body]

Grand Nationals . I love those cars. They're my second favorite car (Mustang is # 1).

I've race 3 GNs so far:
Fox Body = 2 wins
GN = 1 win

I don't worry about stock GNs, but the modded ones (even slightly somethimes) will reel me in.

What do you need to beat him? Maybe a blower and some sticky tires.

-------------------------------
'79 Mustang Coup
4" Cowl
Weld wheels (15x6;15x8)
Stock 5.8L
C4 w/ shift kit
1 5/8" MAC shorty headers
Holley 750 CFM
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake
2.5" Off road H-pipe, 2-chamber Flowmasters
8.8" Rear end w/ 3.55 gears (Now that's more like it!!)
Front: 225/60/15 Rear: 255/60/15 Eagle GT II
14 x 4” K&N air filter (getting the Xtreme setup soon)

"Red, thou art my companion. Hasten now your quickened metamorphosis to Green that I may conquer all who dare abide there beside me. May they be left thither behind burnt black." ---Fox Body

[Dark Knight]

catch 'em on a hot day...heat slows them down alot...

------------------
84 convt,'95 302,AFR's, performer
3.55's, underdrives stock shorties
stock cam, 1.7's
14.06@100.21, 255RWHP on a hot day
265 on the mph/weight chart

[Nitrous Al]

John_86stang, don't hold my to it, but I believe the '86 5.0 came with E6 heads. They suck big time. Do a compression test to find out the condition of your engine. If it doesn't need a rebuild, try a set of GT-40 heads, a Cobra intake (port the lower) and a 150hp nitrous kit. If you need a rebuild buy a 302 GT 40P longblock from Central Coast, put on the other parts and spray it 'til he sees Mustang tail lights. BFG Drag radials should help you hook up. Good Luck!

Man!! I still love those old GNs!! I was in college when they were kicking butt (I drooled on a couple of them..heeh). Guy on my route has one for sell but he wants $9500 for it. If buick would do it again I just might have to break down and buy one(now that I can afford it).

------------------
Rick
My 89lx(updated 2/21/2001)
My 97 Cobra

[Mr 5 0]

Buick GN's did high 13's from the factory and as prior posts have stated, 12's are easy for them and 11's are not a huge reach, either.

Don't feel bad, I've raced two GN's and got whupped each time, much like you did.
If you can't run low-to-mid 12's, GN's are probably out of your (and my) league.
Hey, there will always be a faster car out there. Enjoy what you have, use loses to motivate you to build up your Mustang and - choose your races.

[john_86stang]

Nitrous Al yeah my car is bone stock 86 heads, intake, and TB. Just minor bolt on stuff and gears. I am planning to put the gas on soon though. The stock motor seems to be real tight, so I plan on just NOSing it till it goes south. Should I be able to get mid to high 12's on a 150 shot. I plan on using the Nitrous Express fogger setup.
Thanks John

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John Welch
86 GT, 3.73's, H-pipe w/ 2-chamber Flows, No smog pump or A/C, crank pulley, K&N in stock box, adj. FPR, bypassed EGR(coolant) Best Run 14.34 @100.0 MPH (on G-Tech)

I know those cars are fast, but i beat one bad on the Highway with my old 88GT. I believe they can only reach 120 or so

[SidiousV]

what can you do to beat this guy, eh?

Well, there's the Supercharger route. Drop 3500 bucks and get a Kenne Bell Blowzilla (many will disagree with me and say go centrifugal S/C). It's a comprehensive kit. Yer car will feel like a big block, and you'll leave the GN standing at the line because of all the torque you'll make. He'll pull you in at the top end, but it'll be close (my oppinion).

If you wanna' stick to the bolt on route, then I suggest:

an F303 cam (or similiar)
twisted wedge heads with 2.02/1.60 valves OR a set of old heads with smaller (can't do it w/out some sort of headwork or aftermarket heads)[my oppinion, again]
combustion chamber to increase Compression(then need a smaller cam [E-303] and 1.6 roller rockers)
1.6 roller rockers,
basically any aftermarket intake upper and lower (I prefer the Edelbrock)
75mm throttle body w/ EGR spacer
71MM Pro Flow MAF
long tube headers (equal length)
2 1/2 off road pipe
2 1/4" cat back (many will disagree, but I went to 2 1/2 and lost alot of bottom end) lower temp thermostat (opens earlier, can't remember P#)
underdrive pulleys
24# injectors
190 LPH intank pump
MSD 6 AL ignition system
a computer chip
your gears
a set of drag radials.

All that should put you w/in range. You might have to step up the gears. Just my oppinion. GN's are way fast. In a 5.0, you wanna' stomp him off the line and make him catch up to you with his turbo [so you wanna' be quicker, while he's faster]. With any luck you can get far enuff ahead with all these goodies, so it's too late for him to catch you up top.

Peace...have a nice day.
SidV

[SidiousV]

Oh crud!!

Just realized...yer not FI. Scratch all that FI stuff I said.

hmmm,

well, now I'm at a loss, because with the Carbed setup yer lookin' at some pretty basic stuff. I guess the heads, cam, and gears are gonna' be the trick for ya'. Check Car Craft..they are running a 86 'stang (a low buck project) and are in the 12's with it allready.

Peace.

Can't say I've ever raced a GN, but I'd love the opportunity. I've probably only seen about 5 in the last 5 years. If I were to have a choice of who I'd rather lose to, a Camaro or GN......I'd have to go with the GN (they are *******' sweet)!

------------------
'90 LX 5.0; 12K original miles (no sh*&); 3.55 gears; pulleys;Edelbrock Performer Heads; BBK shorties; MSD 6AL box w/ blaster 2 coil; Motorsport E303 cam; Pro-M 75mm MAF; BBK 70mm TB; Eibach spring kit; Southside sub-connectors; K&N cone filter charger; Hurst shifter; fiberglass cowl hood; A/C-less; rear seat-less; cat-less; Flomasters; Corbeau racing seats (fronts);
30# injectors; 190 lb fp FPR; TFS Twisted Wedge Intake 12.513 @ 108 mph (Pre-inj/fuelpump/FPR/ intake)

[Fox Body]

Originally posted by Mr 5 0:
If you can't run low-to-mid 12's, GN's are probably out of your (and my) league.

I agree with everything else you said except for the statement above. Let's modify it, eh?

---If you can't run low-to-mid 12's, modded GNs are probably out of your (and my) league.

Yeah, I suppose there aren't many unmodded GNs as there aren't many unmodded Mustangs, but there is a diff b/t stock and modded. (forgive my pickiness)

-------------------------------
'79 Mustang Coup w/ 4" Cowl
Stock 5.8L, C4 w/ shift kit
Holley 750 cfm, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake
1 5/8" MAC shorty headers, Al driveshaft
2.5" Off road H-pipe, 2-chamber Flowmasters
Front: 225/60/15, Rear: 255/60/15 Eagle GT II
Weld wheels (15x6;15x8), 8.8" Rear w/ 3.55s
14 x 4” K&N air filter (getting the Xtreme setup soon)

"Red, thou art my companion. Hasten now your quickened metamorphosis to Green that I may conquer all who dare abide there beside me. May they be left thither behind burnt black." ---Fox Body

[lyonsd]

Originally posted by john_86stang:
The stock motor seems to be real tight, so I plan on just NOSing it till it goes south. Should I be able to get mid to high 12's on a 150 shot. I plan on using the Nitrous Express fogger setup.

What are you going to use, NOS or Nitrous Express? Can't use both.

Let's see, you need mid 12s to beat the GN. You might get there with a 150 shot of nitrous. But you're going to need some sticky tires.

I have a 75 shot (NOS #5115), and along with under-drive pulleys and off-road H-pipe & cat-back, I went 13.132@108.17 (on street radials - slicks would've put me in the mid 12s with that trap speed).

You could also do it without any nitrous.

Since then, I've ported the stock heads a little, added a bigger cam, a Cobra intake, a Pro-M 77mm mass air meter, MSD digital 6 ignition, long tube headers, Romac balancer, Moroso 7qt oil pan, Griffin radiator, and aluminum driveshaft. I haven't run it at the strip, but I kept up with a '98 Camaro SS on the top end and pulled on him on the low end. And since they're running 106-109 trap speeds, I figured I should be too, which is very close to what I was running before these mods and with the nitrous.

I have a '87 GN. Never ran it bone stock. But I have a chip and downpipe on it. I ran a best of 14.1@96. Not very good at all. I was on street radials and don't have posi. But I managed a 2.1 60' time. I think it's hurting on the top end. I've been getting knock, which causes the computer to pull the timing. 14.1@96 is what I'd expect out of a bone-stocker.

[fastang]

My turn , Go to a junkyard and get a 351 block. Stroke it to 426 ci and get the best heads possible, then port them. Squeeze a 150 shot on that (no more than 150, not good on a stroker) Then completely gut your car to save weight and run slicks on the street Dont forget your wheelie bar.

------------------
95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, 73mm MAF, milled heads, 355's K&N, BBK Longtubes, Flowmaster cat back, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, FMS aluminum driveshaft, weld in subframe connectors

[skiwesser]

I use to have a buddy who got a new GN right
when I got my stang, at first i smoked him about 10 times then we swiched cars & I really smoked him with me driving the GN
Then I thought the idiot how to spool up the
turbo, he totaled it about 9 mos later I still got my old stang bought new in 87'.
But I did love to drive that GN ,it was FAST


------------------
88 GT subs,pullies,1 1/2 shorties,F.M.,3.73's,PRO 5.0 shifter,140,000 miles 8.881@78.09
Mcreary drag radials

[This message has been edited by skiwesser (edited 04-19-2001).]

[john_86stang]

well as you know my motor in my 86 is bone stock, but I got my hands on a 87 up stock upper, do I need a 87 up TB and EGR or lose the EGR and just put a spacer in there. My egr is unhooked and bypassed anyway. Oh yeah I'm going with a Nitrous Express system, and I plan on a 75-100 shot at first then maybe a 150 shot. Remember orig motor 109k miles. Timing, Fuel Pressure with N20?????? And are high 12's attainable with sticky tires(currently have G-60 McCrearys and they won't spin at all.

------------------
John Welch
86 GT, 3.73's, H-pipe w/ 2-chamber Flows, No smog pump or A/C, crank pulley, K&N in stock box, adj. FPR, bypassed EGR(coolant) Best Run 14.34 @100.0 MPH (on G-Tech)

[turbojo]

SidiousV, the turbo buicks came stock with 355 ft. lbs. of torque, so do treat them like imports cause of the turbo. ever seen a buick launch with good tires and a driver who knows how to hold boost? it's just awsome! thanks for the respect, though guys. its nice to see domestics showing love for each other. pretty much all the guys i cruise with are mustangs and even though we kid around we still have respect for each other.

[Coupe5oh]

I ran a gn at the track, i just had 3.27 grs, and a coldair induction, advanced ignition, and ran 14.3@97 to his 13.6 @ 102, i saw bfg dr's on it, but think it was pretty stock, i do remember it being dead winter, about 39* outside...burrrr..

But i had a passenger in my car, also had the buick all the way until the 1/8th mark, he started reeling me in pretty quick. im thinking about that 331/turbo combo now though, love that topend turbo pull ...

[onefastlx420]

i had a run in with one the other night and got him by about 2 cars halfway through 3rd with the below combo, but it did not seem like it was in great conddition but on the other hand i raced oone a couple years ago with a stock engine and got beat badly