Old cars that kick new car and FI a$$ - Page 3

MercDude · 01-18-2001, 02:23 PM

No SH!T!! Wow... and i thought i was the only one!! LOL... those hondas are SO pathetic!

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'63 Merc Meteor hardtop, warm 302, C4 auto, 2.25" Flowmaster Exhaust,
'65 289 heads - ported/chevy valves, performer cam, edelbrock f4a intake, full length hookers, 600 holley, roller rockers, k'n, 10.5:1 hyperutetic pistons... mid 13's hoping to reach into 12's

Unit 5302 · 01-18-2001, 10:51 PM

I'll also disagree with the EFI makes more torque, carb makes more peak HP deal too.

That's primarily the affect of runner length. If EFI was on a motor and it was setup for maximum hp, it would beat a carb hands down.

It just mixes fuel/air much better than a carb. The EFI motor would of course lose a little driveablility due to torque loss, but it'd still have the smooth dyno chart, which means it'd make more HP on average than the carb.

MiracleMax · 01-19-2001, 12:28 AM

Naw, even if runner length was comparable the EFI motor will still out torque a carb motor. Just has to do with the better fuel distribution and atomization. The only clear cut advantage a carb has like I said earlier is the cooling effect the fuel has as it turns from a liquid to a vapor. All things being equal. I suppose myabe if on a racing setup somebody with a little technical savy might be able to overcome this situation by introducing a small bit of fuel upstream allowing it to vaporize then utilizing a standard injection setup for fuel metering. I doubt such a setup would work on anything less than a race car with a short runner system. As for tuning, I think EFI is just as simple, expecially with an SD car. Pull the plugs, examine them the adjust then pressure. On a MAF car with stock electronics, if the fuel system is worked out right. What kind of adjustments need to be made? The MAF measures the volume of air going into the engine and the computer meters it based on a few more inputs. No air bleeds, no jets, no power valves, no vaccum diaphrams, none of that stuff. Unless your in the habit of just bolting on a supercharger when you need some extra power that night and then taking it off, Who needs to adjust what. EFI's not sensitive to alt, temp, or humidity like a carb. Any combination of those three affects the amount of air the engine is able to injest so the fuel management system just adjust accordingly. No need to change the jets because yesterday you ran in death valley and now your doing a hill climb up Everest, but like I said it comes down to your prefernce. This topic could be as hotly debated as the big vs. small issue, old vs. new etc. Brand X vs. the best

. I'm willing to bet somebody has twice the reasons ready to claim why carbs are superior

Tom351 · 01-19-2001, 09:38 AM

I think that both have basically the same HP potential, efi is definately a more user friendly system, but when a carb is set up right, it is as good is EFI. The difference is in what it takes to get it set up right. They are just two different ways to do the same thing.

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67 Fastback - Arctic White Pearl paint
351W ,Trick Flow Aluminum Heads, Edelbrock TorkerII, Comp. Cam, Performance Automatic C-4 Trans, 3.55 gears, Front Disc Brakes, 1-1/8" Fr. 3/4" rear sway bars.

My 351W Fastback

MrWesson22 · 01-19-2001, 09:09 PM

EFI is better for daily driver or street/strip cars I think, but I still like carbs better. Besides, getting an EFI setup on a 351C is just so damned expensive (like over $1500).

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Neal

69 stang
351C/4sp

MiracleMax · 01-20-2001, 01:11 AM

Eh, maybe but if all the basic systems are in place you've got a good start. Carb and carb manifold's have been around so long they are cheap to make. Figure a new carb and carb intake is about the cost of an EFI manifold. I think you could make the money back in the long run considering the more efficient operation (if your into that sort of thing

) Or if you like the ease of tunability. That to me is worth the extra cost. Once a carb is set-up doing the math for jet changes is easy to do, but instead of just cranking on a fpr, you gotta pull the bowls, take out the jets, blah. blah, blah.

Now that I think about it getting a Holley HP, a fuel pump, and intake are almost as much as an efi set-up probably only about 400 bucks shy.

SLOWPONY · 01-22-2001, 10:12 AM

I have both efi and carb. A 65 and 90. Even though mostly everyone belives that a carb is so much faster than a efi car, that isn't true. There are dyno tests out there that show the same motor that ran with a carb then was switched to efi, and the efi made more power. Older people think that if it dosen't have a carb it isn't fast, thats not true at all. It seems to many people out there bash efi, maybe it is they just don't understand that efi is a better set up.

Rev · 01-27-2001, 05:22 PM

Hey MiracleMax, isn't that "extender" just a piggyback, add-on chip that some outfit burned for you? Does it also dial in your timing? Is that 13/1 across the board RPMwise? What if I wanted 13.5/1? I can do all this in a heartbeat on my car. No emissions questions either.

Rev

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'66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph
1/4 mi.

01-18-2001, 02:23 PM	#41
MercDude Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: CA, US Posts: 113	No SH!T!! Wow... and i thought i was the only one!! LOL... those hondas are SO pathetic! ------------------ '63 Merc Meteor hardtop, warm 302, C4 auto, 2.25" Flowmaster Exhaust, '65 289 heads - ported/chevy valves, performer cam, edelbrock f4a intake, full length hookers, 600 holley, roller rockers, k'n, 10.5:1 hyperutetic pistons... mid 13's hoping to reach into 12's

01-18-2001, 10:51 PM	#42
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	I'll also disagree with the EFI makes more torque, carb makes more peak HP deal too. That's primarily the affect of runner length. If EFI was on a motor and it was setup for maximum hp, it would beat a carb hands down. It just mixes fuel/air much better than a carb. The EFI motor would of course lose a little driveablility due to torque loss, but it'd still have the smooth dyno chart, which means it'd make more HP on average than the carb.

01-19-2001, 12:28 AM	#43
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	Naw, even if runner length was comparable the EFI motor will still out torque a carb motor. Just has to do with the better fuel distribution and atomization. The only clear cut advantage a carb has like I said earlier is the cooling effect the fuel has as it turns from a liquid to a vapor. All things being equal. I suppose myabe if on a racing setup somebody with a little technical savy might be able to overcome this situation by introducing a small bit of fuel upstream allowing it to vaporize then utilizing a standard injection setup for fuel metering. I doubt such a setup would work on anything less than a race car with a short runner system. As for tuning, I think EFI is just as simple, expecially with an SD car. Pull the plugs, examine them the adjust then pressure. On a MAF car with stock electronics, if the fuel system is worked out right. What kind of adjustments need to be made? The MAF measures the volume of air going into the engine and the computer meters it based on a few more inputs. No air bleeds, no jets, no power valves, no vaccum diaphrams, none of that stuff. Unless your in the habit of just bolting on a supercharger when you need some extra power that night and then taking it off, Who needs to adjust what. EFI's not sensitive to alt, temp, or humidity like a carb. Any combination of those three affects the amount of air the engine is able to injest so the fuel management system just adjust accordingly. No need to change the jets because yesterday you ran in death valley and now your doing a hill climb up Everest, but like I said it comes down to your prefernce. This topic could be as hotly debated as the big vs. small issue, old vs. new etc. Brand X vs. the best . I'm willing to bet somebody has twice the reasons ready to claim why carbs are superior

01-19-2001, 09:38 AM	#44
Tom351 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Atlanta,GA,USA Posts: 278	I think that both have basically the same HP potential, efi is definately a more user friendly system, but when a carb is set up right, it is as good is EFI. The difference is in what it takes to get it set up right. They are just two different ways to do the same thing. ------------------ 67 Fastback - Arctic White Pearl paint 351W ,Trick Flow Aluminum Heads, Edelbrock TorkerII, Comp. Cam, Performance Automatic C-4 Trans, 3.55 gears, Front Disc Brakes, 1-1/8" Fr. 3/4" rear sway bars. My 351W Fastback

01-19-2001, 09:09 PM	#45
MrWesson22 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Dacula, GA Posts: 73	EFI is better for daily driver or street/strip cars I think, but I still like carbs better. Besides, getting an EFI setup on a 351C is just so damned expensive (like over $1500). ------------------ Neal 69 stang 351C/4sp

01-20-2001, 01:11 AM	#46
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	Eh, maybe but if all the basic systems are in place you've got a good start. Carb and carb manifold's have been around so long they are cheap to make. Figure a new carb and carb intake is about the cost of an EFI manifold. I think you could make the money back in the long run considering the more efficient operation (if your into that sort of thing ) Or if you like the ease of tunability. That to me is worth the extra cost. Once a carb is set-up doing the math for jet changes is easy to do, but instead of just cranking on a fpr, you gotta pull the bowls, take out the jets, blah. blah, blah. Now that I think about it getting a Holley HP, a fuel pump, and intake are almost as much as an efi set-up probably only about 400 bucks shy.

01-22-2001, 10:12 AM	#47
SLOWPONY Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: detroit,mi Posts: 27	I have both efi and carb. A 65 and 90. Even though mostly everyone belives that a carb is so much faster than a efi car, that isn't true. There are dyno tests out there that show the same motor that ran with a carb then was switched to efi, and the efi made more power. Older people think that if it dosen't have a carb it isn't fast, thats not true at all. It seems to many people out there bash efi, maybe it is they just don't understand that efi is a better set up.

01-27-2001, 05:22 PM	#48
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	Hey MiracleMax, isn't that "extender" just a piggyback, add-on chip that some outfit burned for you? Does it also dial in your timing? Is that 13/1 across the board RPMwise? What if I wanted 13.5/1? I can do all this in a heartbeat on my car. No emissions questions either. Rev ------------------ '66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph 1/4 mi.