Results from Race with Supercharged Trans Am.

[GONZO99TA]

sounds like the guy you raced needs a better mechanic to work on his car. too many people think just because you bolt on the a sc that you done, no need to tune it after for peak power
even if you went by the slowest time quoted by saleen gts, it would be pulling you by the end of 1/4 (higher trap speed), put that together with his early start and you should not have caught him. but since you did nice job!!!
i would be laughing at this guy too if he he was talking smack before the race

[CobraConv99]

I caught him in first because I come out of the hole hard. This guy has even complemented me on how hard I launch. It's the only compliament, but none the less. I gave I friend of mine that has a 96 Cobra mods; 4.10's, T/A, and few other things. Well I gave him a two car head start and had him by a 1/2 a car before we hit second.
GONZO99TA how does that T/A run in the quarter? What are your mods.

[GONZO99TA]

last time i ran was back in aug at kilkare in ohio. i managed a 13.5@105 on my usual 2.2* 60ft. my car is 100% stock. when i run i don't even bother playing with tire pressure or removing things from the car. i just want to see what it can do in true street form. it's in storage for the winter now, while i work on my blazer. if i have any money left by spring i may start some mods on it. nothing to outrageous though. probably just exhaust, lid, some nitto's (my tires are pretty close to bald now) maybe some of the free mods.

[302 LX Eric]

GONZO - Kilkare is a long way from Montana! Did you like the track? Many folks here in Columbus say that it is a faster track than National Trail Raceway (near Columbus). What are your thoughts? (I'm looking for a 12! )

SaleenGTS - I have heard the same rumors about the LT-1's not responding well to boost too! Weird if you ask me. One would think that with 275 out of the gate + 8 lbs of boost would = low, low 12's @ ~115 or so??? I dunno know?

CobraConv99 - Sounds like you have one fast Cobra! Nice job.

Take care guys,
E

[GONZO99TA]

302 lx eric
the track itself is real nice, not sure if it is much faster than other tracks though. most people there claim better times than what they were running there. of course most of that is due to aug heat.
yeh, it's quite the drive from here. but the track out here sucks (everything except for the 1/4 mile strip itself is gravel. no prep which equals 0 traction (was lucky to cut a 2.5 60ft on street tires, everybody runs slicks for some reason ) i usually make it out that way to visit freinds in the cinn. area and go to the trans am nationals every year. then continue the drive into philly to visit more family and friends.
nothing like driving cross country in a trans am!

[CobraConv99]

GONZO99TA That's pretty good! Get you some Nitto's and I bet you can pull low 13's. I don't blame you that's the way I run except I do let air pressure out of the tires. (gotta have some traction, I even do that street racing.)

302 LX Eric Thanks man!! I have always loved the Cobra's I have wanted one since they started making them. Now that I finally have one I am really happy with it.

By the way that is the first I have heard about the boost thing. Oh well I guess learn something everyday. I just knew his car wasn't all that fast.

Later

[Snorman]

It's relatively hard to get either an LT1 or an LS1 to run well with boost. Their high compression isn't "boost friendly", and many LS1 guys have damaged motors to prove it. There are some that are making great power and have been running well for quite awhile, but in general, they encounter lots of problems when trying to run any more than 5-6psi. Even then, problems are abundant.
5-6psi on an LT1 is worth about 350-375rwhp. 5-6psi on an LS1 is worth 375-400+rwhp with a good tune.
These cars respond amazingly well to juice, and IMO, that is the best way to go fast in them. A good running head/cam car will hit mid-11's with tire and 10's are a button away.
S.

[Unit 5302]

I would seriously contest the claim that 5-6psi of a standard supercharger is gonna get anywhere near 350rwhp from an LT-1. An LT-1 puts down, what, about 230-240rwhp stock? Adding 110rwhp with 5-6psi isn't gonna happen on that thing. That's 130hp at the crank. Now, 350 at the crank I'd believe.

The stock 5.0 also responds like *** to boost. A standard supercharger will get you about 10hp per 1psi.

I agree almost completely with Snorman. I'll post this link for the heck of it. http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/.../appguide.html

What surprised me is that the LT1 is only 9hp off of the LS1, though it is running a little more boost. Are you sure about the 10.5 compression on the LT1, Kell?

[HP Freak]

FWIW, it ounds like you out drove this guy for the kill. Congrats. Im sure you embarrassed him pretty good.

As for a SC'd LT1 trapping 105 mph? Sounds like a tuning or a traction issue. I trap 104mph stock in my 97 SS. Something is off there. Not doubting you, I wasnt there. A SC'd LT1 should trap around 115mph. The stock compression ratio on theese motors is 10.5:1, so they dont respond well if they arent tuned correctly. There is alot to it. Sounds like this guy has a "untouchable attitudes". Doesnt do the fbody name any good.

BTW, I havent seen a SC'd run in person, only on mpegs or video. I have seen 3 LS1's run. I saw a guy run a 12.2 spinning though 330' and almost into the eighth before pedalling and hooking.

For stock LT1 dyno numbers, most Z/28's put down anywhere from 250 rwhp up to 265. Once again, in my SS I laid down 282 rwhp stock. Thats not bad for an LT1. A SC'd should toss down in the upper 300's (close to 385-400) with a bigger fuel pump and ignition.

Be happy you can drive. It will get you many surprise victories. Keep the mods comin to make sure you can back it up too.

[1BAD89]

It's relatively hard to get either an LT1 or an LS1 to run well with boost. Their high compression isn't "boost friendly", and many LS1 guys have damaged motors to prove it. There are some that are making great power and have been running well for quite awhile, but in general, they encounter lots of problems when trying to run any more than 5-6psi. Even then, problems are abundant.

[Unit 5302]

The link that was posted listed a T trim Vortech at 7psi to make 330rwhp. That's a far cry from 5-6psi and 350-375rwhp. I'm just pointing out the little stuff here.

For anybody who would like to argue that a 10.5:1 compression engine with iron heads is a good combination to run a S/C on, quit posting on technical subjects.

Most LT1's trap 100-102 or so. In a 3400lb car, that's about 280-300hp. Again, nothing set in stone. 230-250rwhp is what that equates to. 265rwhp is about 320hp at the crank or so, and while I'd believe an SS or WS6 could put that down, a 282rwhp stock LT1 would equal 340hp stock. The SS got a cold air induction package, ported manifolds, and an optional exhaust system. While I'd be inclined to believe it's possible a really well running SS would put down 340hp, that's about what an LS1 will put down, and the LT1 has a powerband that is better suited to a hole shot. So if the two engines are matched in power and the LT1 is better on the low end, why are the LS1's sooooo much faster?

I pull the LT1's all the way through 3rd gear with my 2.73's (120mph or so). I wouldn't even want to try to pull an LS1 there. I would do it, if I was losing, but I'd shut down before then if I was ahead. The LS1 routinely traps 4mph faster than an LT1. I don't know where all the extra power is coming from.

ok.... care to elaborate 1bad89? The rolled eyes don't really tell me anything. Have you seen a LS1 run more than 6#s of boost? I'd really like to know. I was thinking of adding more compression to my engine and leave the blower alone instead of adding more boost to a low compression engine. Am I mising something here??

Funny how you can add a blower to 281ci with DOHC and be close to the 500hp mark, when you add a blower the the LS1 you are just passing the 400hp mark. Something has got to give and that is either boost or compression(the way I see it).

[HP Freak]

First off, these motors are aluminum head engines. I have seen more than one of these LS1's with 9psi on stock internals. Its all in the tuning man. It CAN be done. Both of them are dail drivers, and one has had the whizzer on for a year and a half.

As far as the LT1 vs/ the LS1........the LT1 has a mean TQ curve way down low. I peaked out at 311 rwtq at 2050 rpm. The LS1 has a gradual increase. Plus the LS1 makes it power on the top. It redlines in the 6200 rom range stock, as to where the LT1 is at 5750.

I am speaking from first hand experience here.

Where did someone get 500 horse on a stock 4.6?

Link me please.

Thanks HP Freak, I appreciate the info though I already knew the LT1 had alumium heads.. had the 5.0 come with good aluminum heads it have been running neck and neck with the LT1. The LT1 and LS1 are totally different engines. Someone running 9#s of boost on an LS1 has some serious tuning.. you can't deny that.

You are right about the stock cobra with a blower not being 500hp though, I did exaggerate, thanks for pointing that out(lets all be honest here) Its only 464 hp with a stock cobra and a blower. Not that far off of the 5-6 blown ls1 with 418 hp. Of course you could add a cooler to that LS1 and bring it up to 470hp.. Adding a cooler to a cobra is well... yet to bedetermined. If we're gonna talk mods, lets talk mods The LS1 is fast and I for one respect that.. But lets for a moment respect that the DOHC engine is beyond the LS1 in technology.. Its a class above a LS1. Its hand built, the block is built in France, the name of the guys who built it are imprinted on the valve covers all it really needs is forged pistons to be unstoppable.

[HP Freak]

Rick; Glad to see this isnt turning into a flame war. Lets keep it that way.

As for the Cobra turning 464hp, I still must see that. I have seen 2 2001's and a 2002 Cobra dyno, and the most I saw at the wheels was 290. So if you are talking 464 rwhp here, something is wrong. That kinda of hp gain is only seen with other bigger mods (ie. heads, blower cam, etc).

As for my bud with the 98' LS1, he has a Vortech blower with the aftercooler. He is the one running 9 psi. He had it dyno tuned, which basically consisted of adjusting his air/fuel mix, and his timing advance. Thats it. I can try to contact him to get his dyno numbers. To be truthful I dont have any idea what they were.

And for the engine differences; you are correct, the DOHC Cobra motors are unique in that aspect. You have to give credit to GM for updating a pushrod motor to stay ahead of the new modular wave brought by Ford. Each of these motors earn respect in different ways. To be honest with you, I am happy to see the later 4.6's running closer in their battle with the f-body's. You know as well as I do the f-body has dominated since 93. Just like the Fox body had its own before then. I have all kinds of respect for the newer Cobras, and even slightly modded older ones.

Like I said in my previous post, link me to your "464 hp " figure on a STOCK motor. I am normally not a disbeliever, but you got me here.

[96SNAKE]

Welcome HP Freak! I agree that its good to see some good ole' fashioned hp talk without the flaming.


I believe rbatson was talking about Cobras with blowers, not without. I think the norm is about 425+rwhp on a car like mine 96-98, where the newer 99+ Cobras are around 450+rwhp. Not sure of the boost levels but I'm assuming they have around 6-7 and the higher power levels are hit with 9lbs+.

Everybody and their dad is waiting for the FR-500 heads/valvetrain and intake to come out together as a package. With these mods, we're expecting around 375rwhp n/a. I can't wait..

[HP Freak]

Thanks for the welcome 96SNAKE. I hope you and others see my level-headedness. All is fair in horsepower and racing.

I know he was talking about the Cobra being blown. I was just curious where he had seen those numbers. Thats quite a signifigance in power from just a SC. Thats where my question was intended for. It sounds more like flywheel numbers to me.

The numbers should be nearly equal if anything, while comparing the LS1 to the DOHC SVT motor. While the LS1 has been known to have a few freaks (ie. that SS doing a 12.96 stock), the variance in the hand built Cobra motor is the same, if not more of a chance of having different numbers.

I am just wanting to know his base for info, I am in no way trying to start a flame.

[96SNAKE]

Ok, I see your point but I speak the truth. No links for you but go over to the modular forum at www.corral.net and either do a search or look around. There is a boatload of blown Cobras making tons of power there. You'll see what I mean..

The DOHC Cobra just loves boost. The weakness is the "hyperpathetic" pistons but with adequate fuel even these hold up pretty well. There isn't a whole lot out there for engine mods for us Cobra guys YET. We can upgrade pistons and rods and maybe bore the engine out .20 over and some even have strokers but these are rare cases rather than the norm. It costs big money to tear into these engines and I know it is close for the LS1's too. Not too sure on the cost of LT1 build ups but I'm sure it isn't cheap..

[Skyman]

HP-Freak

If you want to see some stock and close to stock 4.6 4V cobras putting down that kind of HP goto

www.jmschips.com

Theres a good amount of them there to look at.

Skyler